2024-2025 Regular Season Game 79: Atlanta Hawks (37-41) at Orlando Magic (38-40) - 7pm

[Knightro]

That is literally the best young core of all time. Keep going. I've already done the analysis for you, its in my history. You are welcome.

They're not even the most successful young core in Orlando Magic history my guy.

The Shaq/Penny Magic won 57 games and went to the NBA finals in Shaq's 4th year and Penny's 3rd year.

Best young cores of all time imo right here. Where do you put the Paolo/Franz/Suggs?

Durant/Westbrook/Harden (Thunder) 2012
Tatum/Brown/Smart (Celtics) 2020
Jokic/Murray/Morris (Nuggets) 2019
Sprewell/Owens/Weber (Warriors) 1994
Shaq/Penny/Nick (Magic) 1994
Williams/Cook/King (Nets) 1983
Sampson/McCray/Olajuwon (Rockets) 1985
O'Neal/Harrington/Metta (Pacers) 2003
Hinrich/Chandler/Duhon (Bulls) 2005
Marion/Marbury/Stoudemire (Suns) 2003
Carmelo/Miller/Nene (Nuggets) 2004
D'Angelo/Harris/Jarrett (Nets) 2019
Giannis/Middleton/MCW (Bucks) 2015
McKey/Kemp/Payton (Sonics) 1991
Gugliotta/KG/Marbury (Wolves) 1997

What is your criteria for "young core" here?

Three guys drafted in the high lotto? Because there are plenty of teams who have succeeded a lot more than Paolo/Franz/Suggs have without even needing to draft three guys.

[eyriq]

LeBron by year 4 had won four playoff series and gone to the NBA finals.

Luka by year 4 had won two playoffs series and gone to a conference finals.

Brown by year 4 and Tatum by year 3 had won SEVEN playoff series and been to a conference finals.

Lillard year 4 and McCollum by year 3 had won two playoff series.

Ant Edwards by year 4 had won two playoff series and gone to a conference finals

Donovan Mitchell by year 4 had won two playoff series.

Derrick Rose by year 3 had won two playoff series and gone to a conference finals.

Paul George by year 3 had won three playoff series and gone to a conference finals.

Paolo by year 3 and Franz by year 4 - zero playoff series wins - potentially only 4 playoff *game* wins.

Like I know you're gonna retort with some nonsense about how the Magic rebuilt and tanked and landed their picks via tanking and blah blah blah. It's just nonsense stuff.

Many of those weren't even young cores. Stop wasting my time.

[eyriq]

They're not even the most successful young core in Orlando Magic history my guy.

The Shaq/Penny Magic won 57 games and went to the NBA finals in Shaq's 4th year and Penny's 3rd year.

Best young cores of all time imo right here. Where do you put the Paolo/Franz/Suggs?

Durant/Westbrook/Harden (Thunder) 2012
Tatum/Brown/Smart (Celtics) 2020
Jokic/Murray/Morris (Nuggets) 2019
Sprewell/Owens/Weber (Warriors) 1994
Shaq/Penny/Nick (Magic) 1994
Williams/Cook/King (Nets) 1983
Sampson/McCray/Olajuwon (Rockets) 1985
O'Neal/Harrington/Metta (Pacers) 2003
Hinrich/Chandler/Duhon (Bulls) 2005
Marion/Marbury/Stoudemire (Suns) 2003
Carmelo/Miller/Nene (Nuggets) 2004
D'Angelo/Harris/Jarrett (Nets) 2019
Giannis/Middleton/MCW (Bucks) 2015
McKey/Kemp/Payton (Sonics) 1991
Gugliotta/KG/Marbury (Wolves) 1997

What is your criteria for "young core" here?

Three guys drafted in the high lotto? Because there are plenty of teams who have succeeded a lot more than Paolo/Franz/Suggs have without even needing to draft three guys.

Average age of a teams three most played players being 22 and younger

[richi_v25]

I haven't been able to watch a Magic game in a couple months bc i was traveling for work but all I read on here was doom and gloom. What i saw tonight wasn't bad, PB looked like he did prior to getting hurt, Ji helped some, WCj was playing good and heck even KCP was making shots. Crazy we went from top 3 in he East to play in but oh well I'm strapped in.

[Knightro]

LeBron by year 4 had won four playoff series and gone to the NBA finals.

Luka by year 4 had won two playoffs series and gone to a conference finals.

Brown by year 4 and Tatum by year 3 had won SEVEN playoff series and been to a conference finals.

Lillard year 4 and McCollum by year 3 had won two playoff series.

Ant Edwards by year 4 had won two playoff series and gone to a conference finals

Donovan Mitchell by year 4 had won two playoff series.

Derrick Rose by year 3 had won two playoff series and gone to a conference finals.

Paul George by year 3 had won three playoff series and gone to a conference finals.

Paolo by year 3 and Franz by year 4 - zero playoff series wins - potentially only 4 playoff *game* wins.

Like I know you're gonna retort with some nonsense about how the Magic rebuilt and tanked and landed their picks via tanking and blah blah blah. It's just nonsense stuff.

Many of those weren't even young cores. Stop wasting my time.

I *KNEW* you were going to say something stupid like this

LeBron James went to the NBA finals at 22 years old.

Because they didn't also draft two other guys in the lottery after he was picked, that isn't considered a "young core"?

Significantly cherry picked data to make your really bad point look better than it actually is.

Trying with a straight face to say that a core group that in 3 years has been bounced in the first round of the playoffs once and might get out of the play in tournament to get easily dispatched in the first round a second time is the "most successful" anything is a big part of the reason why people find you so annoying.

The level of disingenuousness is staggering.

[Knightro]

Average age of a teams three most played players being 22 and younger

This is such a nonsensically cherry picked data set that it isn't even worth discussing tbh.

It's not the awesome point that you think it is, that's for sure.

[eyriq]

LeBron by year 4 had won four playoff series and gone to the NBA finals.

Luka by year 4 had won two playoffs series and gone to a conference finals.

Brown by year 4 and Tatum by year 3 had won SEVEN playoff series and been to a conference finals.

Lillard year 4 and McCollum by year 3 had won two playoff series.

Ant Edwards by year 4 had won two playoff series and gone to a conference finals

Donovan Mitchell by year 4 had won two playoff series.

Derrick Rose by year 3 had won two playoff series and gone to a conference finals.

Paul George by year 3 had won three playoff series and gone to a conference finals.

Paolo by year 3 and Franz by year 4 - zero playoff series wins - potentially only 4 playoff *game* wins.

Like I know you're gonna retort with some nonsense about how the Magic rebuilt and tanked and landed their picks via tanking and blah blah blah. It's just nonsense stuff.

Many of those weren't even young cores. Stop wasting my time.

I *KNEW* you were going to say something stupid like this

LeBron James went to the NBA finals at 22 years old.

Because they didn't also draft two other guys in the lottery after he was picked, that isn't considered a "young core"?

Significantly cherry picked data to make your really bad point look better than it actually is.

Trying with a straight face to say that a core group that in 3 years has been bounced in the first round of the playoffs once and might get out of the play in tournament to get easily dispatched in the first round a second time is the "most successful" anything is a big part of the season why people find you so annoying.

The level of disingenuousness is staggering.

You are tripping. LeBron with two veterans is a fundamentally different core than 21 year old Paolo and two 22 year olds. No wonder you don't get how great Paolo is.

[Knightro]

When your big talking point is to say a team that lost in the first round as a 5 seed (and immediately regressed the following year) is the "most successful" at literally anything, it's a lousy data set your using.

There have been many, many, many other teams over the years that have had far more team success in the first four years of their two best player's careers.

[eyriq]

Average age of a teams three most played players being 22 and younger

This is such a nonsensically cherry picked data set that it isn't even worth discussing tbh.

It's not the awesome point that you think it is, that's for sure.

It's not cherry picking at all. Last season our team was led by a 21, 22, and 22 year old. Led the team in minutes and scoring, etc. To understand if team performance was good you look at expected wins for teams with their three most important players 22 or younger. It's pathetic that you fail to get this principle and hilarious that you have the gall to call me disingenuous.

[Knightro]

You are tripping. LeBron with two veterans is a fundamentally different core than 21 year old Paolo and two 22 year olds. No wonder you don't get how great Paolo is.

Let's be clear on a couple of things...

1. LeBron didn't join a team that had two really highly regarded lottery picks drafted the year before he got there.

2. LeBron was such a great player immediately that the Cavs organization knew that there would not be any need to do anything other than surround him with the best possible players they could as quickly as they could.

Orlando made a decision to essentially triple down on continuity, which no NBA teams ever really do (and has shown this season to not be the right decision).

[Knightro]

Average age of a teams three most played players being 22 and younger

This is such a nonsensically cherry picked data set that it isn't even worth discussing tbh.

It's not the awesome point that you think it is, that's for sure.

It's not cherry picking at all. Last season our team was led by a 21, 22, and 22 year old. Led the team in minutes and scoring, etc. To understand if team performance was good you look at expected wins for teams with their three most important players 22 or younger. It's pathetic that you fail to get this principle and hilarious that you have the gall to call me disingenuous.

I'm saying it's a disingenuous narrative.

"THEY'RE THE MOST SUCCESSFUL IN THIS SUPER SPECIFIC DATA POINT I'VE ESTABLISHED THAT ALMOST NO NBA FRANCHISE EVER CHOOSES TO DO" - is what you're doing here.

But in comparison to literally any other style of team building, they're not overly successful at all.

They've gone to the playoffs one time and lost in the first round. They're significantly worse this year than last.

They're "successful" only in relation to the INCREDIBLY specific guidelines you've created, but not actually successful in reality.

[Knightro]

You've created the most narrow of narrow lanes in order to essentially fabricate this "successful" narrative you so desperately want to have here.

The Magic have, to date, gone to the playoffs one time and lost in the first round. That's not successful no matter how you slice it.

There have been dozens upon dozens of teams over the years who have had far more success than that with their two best players still being on their rookie contracts.

[eyriq]

You've created the most narrow of narrow lanes in order to essentially fabricate this "successful" narrative you so desperately want to have here.

The Magic have, to date, gone to the playoffs one time and lost in the first round. That's not successful no matter how you slice it.

There have been dozens upon dozens of teams over the years who have had far more success than that with their two best players still being on their rookie contracts.

"narrow of narrow lanes" = "organic rebuild" = "our current situation" = "the context required for setting expectations"

This is all the basic stuff

[KillMonger]

I really wish we cut down the rotation..... Like what did we get out of Gary harris and Cole tonight? 8 or 9 man rotation that's all we need right now, your most consistent players need to be playing Cole needs to not be playing right now

Sent from my [Sidekick 5G] using RealGM mobile app

[thelead]

[ORLMagicGirl15]

I’m going to go out on a limb and say eyriq was just being jovial before he doubled down.

[Knightro]

You've created the most narrow of narrow lanes in order to essentially fabricate this "successful" narrative you so desperately want to have here.

The Magic have, to date, gone to the playoffs one time and lost in the first round. That's not successful no matter how you slice it.

There have been dozens upon dozens of teams over the years who have had far more success than that with their two best players still being on their rookie contracts.

"narrow of narrow lanes" = "organic rebuild" = "our current situation" = "the context required for setting expectations"

This is all the basic stuff

It's goofy data to cite so confidently like it's actually relevant. And you know that is the case.

The amount of teams throughout NBA history with *three* players aged 22 or under who are the top three minutes leaders for their respective teams is such a small number. You're talking like 20-30 teams ever in the history of the sport.

And there's the VERY VERY OBVIOUS caveat that being "one of the most successful teams" under such an extremely specific set of rules you've created doesn't mean that team was actually successful in reality either.

More often than not, teams aren't even able to get three players aged 22 or under at the same time period **BECAUSE IT'S INCREDIBLY RARE FOR A TEAM TO MAKE TWO HIGH LOTTO PICKS IN THE SAME YEAR**

Even if a team tanked multiple years in a row and made 3-4 consecutive high lotto picks, the first one those lotto picks would age out of your criteria before his rookie deal is even up. Wasn't the case for Orlando. Making this data set even more silly.

[eyriq]

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[eyriq]

You've created the most narrow of narrow lanes in order to essentially fabricate this "successful" narrative you so desperately want to have here.

The Magic have, to date, gone to the playoffs one time and lost in the first round. That's not successful no matter how you slice it.

There have been dozens upon dozens of teams over the years who have had far more success than that with their two best players still being on their rookie contracts.

"narrow of narrow lanes" = "organic rebuild" = "our current situation" = "the context required for setting expectations"

This is all the basic stuff

It's goofy data to cite so confidently like it's actually relevant. And you know that is the case.

The amount of teams throughout NBA history with *three* players aged 22 or under who are the top three minutes leaders for their respective teams is such a small number. You're talking like 20-30 teams ever in the history of the sport.

And there's the VERY VERY OBVIOUS caveat that being "one of the most successful teams" under such an extremely specific set of rules you've created doesn't mean that team was actually successful in reality either.

More often than not, teams aren't even able to get three players aged 22 or under at the same time period **BECAUSE IT'S INCREDIBLY RARE FOR A TEAM TO MAKE TWO HIGH LOTTO PICKS IN THE SAME YEAR**

Even if a team tanked multiple years in a row and made 3-4 consecutive high lotto picks, the first one those lotto picks would age out of your criteria before his rookie deal is even up. Wasn't the case for Orlando. Making this data set even more silly.

It's "goofy" to double down on ignoring the context of the performance we are witnessing. Apples to oranges is a poor way to analyze anything.

[Knightro]

There have been tons of teams who's two best players were 22 or under that have had way more success than the Magic have had, but eyriq wouldn't count them because their third best player was 25.

Can you all see how this immediately can becomes nonsensical when the criteria is that?