2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

[Saberestar]

We've seen last game of KD in Suns uni. The bigger question is what to do with Bud. He's been a problem. Remember Bol Bol started at some point and now is not getting minutes even in a blow out. Bud couldn't figure out the rotations for a full season whether it's Beal, Dunn or Bol. Nobody was playing hard either probably for multiple reasons, one being the coaching.

Personally I wouldn't fire Budenholzer if we are gonna put a much different roster on the court next year.

He was doing the exact thing when we were 9W-2L at the start of the season.

Budenholzer has a very good reputation around the league and he has had two long periods as a HC before, and both were successful periods for those teams (Hawks and Bucks).

And we aren't talking about someone who was successful 25 years ago like you can say about Doc Rivers.

I am not in love with Budenholzer's coaching style but I don't know if there's anyone better than him available on the market.

We all know that Spo, Popovich and Kerr are the best HCs in the league and it's not even close. None of them are available so the pool after them it's deep and pretty close as a good HCs but not difference makers for their franchises.

[BurningHeart]

Always amazing to me how players, teams, people in good situations are so hell bent on ruining them for nonsensical or non-existent reasons.

Like, how the **** do you ruin what you have in Denver like that.

[thamadkant]

The Nuggets story does not make sense. Malone a championship coach and Booth, also a championship GM..

Even if the media saying both didnt see eye to eye, the ownership would pick one of them and get rid of the other.... Booth works for the Owners.... Malone works for the GM....Owners would pick one who did their bidding and that would be Booth. But he got booted out too...

To me it sounds like an excuse and ownership are making decisions based on next direction probably eyeing a big name GM or maybe a nepotism case.

[Ryu]

20 years ago during the good ol times, we blew a game to the Warriors, but still, things were definitely looking up back then.

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What a fun team to watch that was. STAT, a force to be reckoned with, with easy 44-16 alongside Nash, Marion, Joe Johnson... Ah well.

Shall we see another Suns team that good and that fun in the next decade or two?

[Calvin Klein]

Beal is the main problem with this team. Either always injured or not productive enough. His salary could get the Suns 3 productive NBA players vs zero w/Beal on most nights. That is why I wanted the Butler/Beal trade so bad for this team. Suns would either be in the playoffs or at least the play in had they done that trade. No one wanted that contract or him.

He better have one of those maybe he's worth it games vs Warriors tonight.

No, the main problem is the people who acquired him when everybody knew what it meant.

[RaisingArizona]

Remember when this franchise had a great training staff and coaches? I do. We all do.

[phnart]

Remember when this franchise had a great training staff and coaches? I do. We all do.

I also remember a time when they were fun to watch. This team has not been consistently fun to watch for a long time, and maybe not at all during Kevin Durant’s tenure. There have been moments, sure, but the stony assassin is fairly joyless on the court and that demeanor has been adopted by the team.

I watched last night because I am clearly intoxicated by the unbelievable ineptitude the highest payroll in the league loves to show on nationally televised games and they did not disappoint. They were never in the game and if they are “fighting” fora playoff sniff, they certainly masquerade well as a bunch of dudes looking for “36 unbothered.” Luckily, I won’t have to watch again.

Eff this team right in the b.

[Rebound Mound]

The difference, big difference, between acquiring Beal or KD two years ago was that they were good players who everybody thought could do better in particular environments.
24 months later they and we are in a desperate situation, them 2 years older, we with a sense of urgency to get rid of them and trying to give the impression around the league that they are worth a treasure...

At this point I could see the Bucks doing a desperate thing and acquiring KD for Kuzma and/or Portis, which I would probably do. If Houston gives us Jabari and a pick I would take it in a heartbit. Same thing with SAS if they would offer Castle and Barnes and a pick. Cannot see the Heat doing that kind os Stupid thing. With Ware, Adebayo, Herro and Robinson, plus Wiggins, they need Rozier leave and get a PG and a good bench big to go for a ran. Not an aging KD. And the assets we could get here ar close to nothing or would involve a SG we do not need.

I do not get what we could get for Beal. May be picks and expirings.

If that is the case, I would keep BDH for a year. Nobody better than him for a tanking season. It would be effortless.

If we go the quick reloading process, then Malone and Booth should be our men. Jenkins could be a great, great assistant to Malone.

For Beal, if attaching picks to trade him, then the top 3 trades on my list would be:

1- Chicago.
Beal/ CLE 27' 1st for Ball/ Vucevic/ Huerter. ** I might even take back Williams in the deal to get Ball/ Vucevic. But would require at least a 2nd back to balance the value of taking back that long-term money.

2- Orlando.
Beal for Isaac/ KCP/ Bidatze/ Harris/ 7 million (expiring)/ ORL 25' 2nd (45th pick)???

3- Utah (**IF tanking! which it kind of appears they are) ............BOTH CLE 1sts back.
Beal/ 2 1sts for Markannen/ Mikhaliuk??

IF Beal wouldn't agree to go Utah, but would go back to Washington, then I'd do Beal and a 1st for Poole/ Smart/ DET 25' 2nd (47th pick).
If there was mutual interest in Sacramento, I'd do Beal/ 1st for Derozan/ Monk/ LaRavia/ CHI 25' 2nd (42nd pick)??

Markannen would be a dream, but I believe Beal will not land us anything more than less than the package that you are proposing with Bulls. I believe the Bulls are OK with Ball at PG, while White is playing at ASG level plus and is fine a the SG position, unless they consider him a PG.

It is sad, but I see all these trades as getting something not very useful in return, but given the level that Beal is showing during the last games, I believe it is going to be a sad return.

[BobbieL]

Beal is the main problem with this team. Either always injured or not productive enough. His salary could get the Suns 3 productive NBA players vs zero w/Beal on most nights. That is why I wanted the Butler/Beal trade so bad for this team. Suns would either be in the playoffs or at least the play in had they done that trade. No one wanted that contract or him.

He better have one of those maybe he's worth it games vs Warriors tonight.

No, the main problem is the people who acquired him when everybody knew what it meant.

Did ishbia or somebody not read the CBA when trading for Beal?

Blow it up

[handsome salary]

Still have another month until we find out what lottery pick is going to the Rockets. The **** season still aint over.

[SunsRback4Good]

Remember when this franchise had a great training staff and coaches? I do. We all do.

[BobbieL]

Still have another month until we find out what lottery pick is going to the Rockets. The **** season still aint over.

Very much so

Interesting to see how quickly Ishbia makes moves
Also waiting for the comment from Gambo that "Booker will NOT be traded"

My guess, that will happen first and just kill the offseason. And Book will say something about being "committed to the Valley" as he posts another -32 game kicking back in PV happy to be making 4th team all NBA and earning 55m per year

[sunskerr]

Firing Booth was probably the right decision because of the roster construction around Jokic being bad. I'm guessing maybe Malone being fired was downstream since new GMs often clean house on the coaching staff, and/or there is something in the locker room.

As far as coaching performance I'm not sure what Malone is really supposed to do with that roster. Jokic is doing an incredible carry job with those teammates.

It's the same thing about why I'm super skeptical about the Bud criticism and I say that not really caring if he is fired or not. Like sure you can not like his rotations, maybe they suck sometimes but this roster just isn't good either. Like we have a bunch of slow unathletic guys and our starting center is trash. Playing Ryan Dunn, Oso or Bol wasn't ever going to be a determining factor in us being a contender or not.

[Ghost of Kleine]

The difference, big difference, between acquiring Beal or KD two years ago was that they were good players who everybody thought could do better in particular environments.
24 months later they and we are in a desperate situation, them 2 years older, we with a sense of urgency to get rid of them and trying to give the impression around the league that they are worth a treasure...

At this point I could see the Bucks doing a desperate thing and acquiring KD for Kuzma and/or Portis, which I would probably do. If Houston gives us Jabari and a pick I would take it in a heartbit. Same thing with SAS if they would offer Castle and Barnes and a pick. Cannot see the Heat doing that kind os Stupid thing. With Ware, Adebayo, Herro and Robinson, plus Wiggins, they need Rozier leave and get a PG and a good bench big to go for a ran. Not an aging KD. And the assets we could get here ar close to nothing or would involve a SG we do not need.

I do not get what we could get for Beal. May be picks and expirings.

If that is the case, I would keep BDH for a year. Nobody better than him for a tanking season. It would be effortless.

If we go the quick reloading process, then Malone and Booth should be our men. Jenkins could be a great, great assistant to Malone.

For Beal, if attaching picks to trade him, then the top 3 trades on my list would be:

1- Chicago.
Beal/ CLE 27' 1st for Ball/ Vucevic/ Huerter. ** I might even take back Williams in the deal to get Ball/ Vucevic. But would require at least a 2nd back to balance the value of taking back that long-term money.

2- Orlando.
Beal for Isaac/ KCP/ Bidatze/ Harris/ 7 million (expiring)/ ORL 25' 2nd (45th pick)???

3- Utah (**IF tanking! which it kind of appears they are) ............BOTH CLE 1sts back.
Beal/ 2 1sts for Markannen/ Mikhaliuk??

IF Beal wouldn't agree to go Utah, but would go back to Washington, then I'd do Beal and a 1st for Poole/ Smart/ DET 25' 2nd (47th pick).
If there was mutual interest in Sacramento, I'd do Beal/ 1st for Derozan/ Monk/ LaRavia/ CHI 25' 2nd (42nd pick)??

Markannen would be a dream, but I believe Beal will not land us anything more than less than the package that you are proposing with Bulls. I believe the Bulls are OK with Ball at PG, while White is playing at ASG level plus and is fine a the SG position, unless they consider him a PG.

It is sad, but I see all these trades as getting something not very useful in return, but given the level that Beal is showing during the last games, I believe it is going to be a sad return.

That's probably a fair assessment given the general optics of the situation man. But let me explain my reasoning behind why I see these suggestions as feasible outside of normal trade and market value conditions:

1- Chicago

Spoiler:

I see this as logically feasible due to these factors, First, The Bulls have a significant glut at guard with having all of Giddey, Ball, White, Carter, Jones, Young, etc.

But they are however still kind of short on legitimate SG depth options with listing only Ball who's not really a good shooter, scorer, Huerter who's at times solid, but not consistent honestly.

And White has actually evolved more into being a PG option with his playmaking/ assists than a full on scoring guard option.

The Bulls also don't legitimately have any star options. But rather just a roster of high level complimentary players. Adding Beal gives them that first option they gave up in trading Lavine.

Additionally, Beal could be a great backcourt compliment to Giddey for them. Billy Donavon ( the Bulls coach) also just happened to coach Beal at Florida when he was at his best, so there's already a strong connection there for both involved.

And Beal's home/ family would be very close to offer support for him which he obviously didn't recieve enough of here! Lastly, taking back equitable salary allows Chicago to maintain flexibility towards roster modifications and getting a 1st or two as a sweetener in the deal is a desirable closing consideration.

2- Orlando

Spoiler:

I see this as logically possible because Orlando has been in the market with profound stated interest for a dominant offensive lead guard option for years now but gas been unsuccessful. They've even been rumored a few times as a potential trade partner for Beal too.

Beal would check a lot of Boxes there for them, could be their #1 option, as they currently don't yet have a tenured established one outside of their still very young only partially proven core of Wagner and Banchero. But still, neither are really dominant established shooters/ scorers on the level of Beal yet.

Now adding an established scorer such as Beal would actually give them legitimate star value to run their offense through so their young options could play off of him with much less pressures.

And add in Beal's motivation for playing in Florida again wherein he experienced a happy situation in college, as well as the weather environment considerations too, only further bodes well for both parties interests and overall motivation towards success.

Also, Beal's religious commitment standards would align well with the Magics' ownership as a desirable factor.

And lastly, taking back equitable salary in trade for Beal maintains necessary flexibility for them to build out their roster and softens the blow of taking back his big contract. Getting an additional 1st or two as a sweetener in the trade helps close the deal too.

3- Washington

Spoiler:

I see this trade as logically feasible due to their past history, Beal's scoring benchmarks/ career accolades pursuits playing a factor in mutual interest.

Additionally, there's Washington's mutual interest in becoming more competitive and competing for the playoffs aligning with Beal's stated goals at this point in his career. Also given their overall familiarity with one another, there'd at least be a level of comfortability between them in a reunion.

And the last important factor to consider would be Washington's interests in acquiring more draft assets in the process, which Phoenix can painfully accommodate.

*** Markannen trade***

Spoiler:

I see this as logically feasible due to the current situation of the Utah Jazz, their interests in tanking/ rebuilding further, Markannens' overall contract value in comparison to his current statistical production, and the likely chasm that's growing between Markannen and the Jazzs' (Ainge, etc rebuilding interests).

This growing difference in pathway commitment will likely cause Markannen to prefer a trade as opposed to enduring a complete bottom out rebuild option.

Also, while Markannens' contract isn't considered the worst value in the league, it's definitely up there in range as overpaid by a notable margin for the production he offers. This would matter because in trading for Beal, the Jazz could g4t off of his long term money earlier and stave at least 2 yrs and $102 million off their books.

Possibly much more if they can negotiate an early buyout?? And because Markannen and the Jazz are on different competitive timelines right now with obviously different goals, a mutual separation makes a lot of sense.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Remember when this franchise had a great training staff and coaches? I do. We all do.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Still have another month until we find out what lottery pick is going to the Rockets. The **** season still aint over.

Very much so

Interesting to see how quickly Ishbia makes moves
Also waiting for the comment from Gambo that "Booker will NOT be traded"

My guess, that will happen first and just kill the offseason. And Book will say something about being "committed to the Valley" as he posts another -32 game kicking back in PV happy to be making 4th team all NBA and earning 55m per year

Just wait until he's making upwards of $70+ million on his supermax scale increase of 8% compounding as the cap increases and we're still at best a treadmilling fringe playin team/ 10-14 range punching bag lottery team.

And we're annually giving up lottery level talent to other teams and helping them get stronger while we suffer and also while Booker's prime passes, his value exponentially diminishes and he gets frustrated and eventually leaves anyways!

I'm sure that'll be a nice consolation for all those Dan's who deluded themselves with the notion of getting to watch Booker waste his best years here as our team prolongs an inevitable 10-15 yr rebuild because we sat and did nothing while letting his trade value rapidly diminish!

Then those same people will complain about how we should've moved him when he had optimal value to avoid this very outcome they previously championed. The irony of being a suns fan!.....lol.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Still have another month until we find out what lottery pick is going to the Rockets. The **** season still aint over.

Well currently it's top 10 and climbing! I can fully see a scenario where they jump into the top 5, although the league obviously wouldn't gift them Flagg!

He's reserved for a bigger market team agenda orchestrated by Sulve4 himself! I fully expect Flagg to end up in Charlotte, allowing Ball to be moved to a league desired market such as the Warriors.

Maybe Flagg goes to New Orleans so Zion can then casually go to the Lakers, or the Spurs will miraculously jump up to #1 so their dynasty can grtvfast tracked around Wembys' return so they can make the playoffs!

Ratings, ratings, ratings after all!!!

[handsome salary]

Congratulations Book on another Suns record.

The Phoenix Suns set a record for most consecutive double-digit losses in franchise history after losing their seventh consecutive game against the Golden State Warriors, 133-95.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Beal is the main problem with this team. Either always injured or not productive enough. His salary could get the Suns 3 productive NBA players vs zero w/Beal on most nights. That is why I wanted the Butler/Beal trade so bad for this team. Suns would either be in the playoffs or at least the play in had they done that trade. No one wanted that contract or him.

He better have one of those maybe he's worth it games vs Warriors tonight.

No, the main problem is the people who acquired him when everybody knew what it meant.

Did ishbia or somebody not read the CBA when trading for Beal?

Blow it up

Nah! Just another typical example of the rich arrogantly believing that they're smarter than everyone else and that obvious rules and consequences don't/ won't apply to them.

Ishbia knew full well and arrogantly opted to challenge the league despite all of the warnings and red flags. And now we're reaping what his narcissistic delusions have sewn.

And unfortunately, we will for years to come beyond this because his hubris just won't allow him to accept accountability and make the logical and responsible pivot!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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