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OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc.

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Re: OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc. 

Post#1541 » by Jalen Bluntson » Mon Apr 7, 2025 1:44 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
CharlesOakley wrote:My unpopular opinion:

Historically, during QE, the Fed purchases large quantities of financial assets, like government bonds or mortgage-backed securities, injecting money into the economy. This increases liquidity—essentially printing money—and lowers interest rates. Banks and financial institutions get this cash first, using it to lend, invest, or buy assets like stocks. his influx of capital pushes the S&P higher as demand for equities rises. Asset holders—those who own stocks, real estate, or other investments—see their wealth grow.

This QE increases the money supply, which devalues the dollar over time. As prices for goods and services rise—think groceries, rent, or gas—the purchasing power of the poor erodes faster than their income can adjust. Meanwhile, asset holders’ wealth, tied to stocks or property, outpaces inflation, widening the wealth gap.

The tariffs should create thousands of high-quality manufacturing jobs over the next few years. We already see commitments from Hyundai (20B), Johnson&Johnson (55B), TSMC (100B) and Stellantis (5B). If manufacturing returns, it means jobs—factory roles paying $30+ an hour, often in Rust Belt states where the working class has been gutted by decades of offshoring. More jobs mean more wages circulating in local economies, not leaking overseas to pay foreign suppliers.

Second, keeping dollars in the U.S. strengthens this effect. When companies source domestically, payments stay within the American financial system rather than funding foreign trade deficits. This could bolster the dollar’s value long-term, reducing reliance on imported inflation. For the working class, this translates to more stable purchasing power compared to a world where cheap imports mask wage stagnation.

Tariffs are also a strong negotiation tool to force other countries to lower their tariffs. If this works, we will see demand for US goods abroad increase, which could encourage even more manufacturing growth. There is definitely risk - China, sitting on a $400 billion trade surplus with the US, could dig in, escalating a trade war—higher prices, fewer exports, and a hit to both workers and markets.

The benefits aren’t instant—short-term inflation from pricier goods could sting, with estimates of a 1-2% CPI bump in 2025. But over a decade, if tariffs stick and manufacturing takes root, job growth could outpace that pain.

The top 10% wealthiest people own 90% of U.S. equities. Given that the tariffs look to cause growth in the middle-class at the expense of the wealthy, I'm still optimistic.

PS

BTC is showing itself as a superior store of value compared the the S&P


Conservative tariff wars fail b/c they don’t invest in industrial policy to meet the demands for goods. They always just free market it.

Tariffs for the sake of tariffs is a foolish errand. There is no financial end game here that benefits the bottom 90%


They tried this back in the 1930s and it made the depression worse. Smoot-Hawley. Why are we doing this again? Oh, right, the dumbest president ever has too much power. This won't end well.
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Re: OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc. 

Post#1542 » by DOT » Mon Apr 7, 2025 1:48 pm

Jalen Bluntson wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
CharlesOakley wrote:My unpopular opinion:

Historically, during QE, the Fed purchases large quantities of financial assets, like government bonds or mortgage-backed securities, injecting money into the economy. This increases liquidity—essentially printing money—and lowers interest rates. Banks and financial institutions get this cash first, using it to lend, invest, or buy assets like stocks. his influx of capital pushes the S&P higher as demand for equities rises. Asset holders—those who own stocks, real estate, or other investments—see their wealth grow.

This QE increases the money supply, which devalues the dollar over time. As prices for goods and services rise—think groceries, rent, or gas—the purchasing power of the poor erodes faster than their income can adjust. Meanwhile, asset holders’ wealth, tied to stocks or property, outpaces inflation, widening the wealth gap.

The tariffs should create thousands of high-quality manufacturing jobs over the next few years. We already see commitments from Hyundai (20B), Johnson&Johnson (55B), TSMC (100B) and Stellantis (5B). If manufacturing returns, it means jobs—factory roles paying $30+ an hour, often in Rust Belt states where the working class has been gutted by decades of offshoring. More jobs mean more wages circulating in local economies, not leaking overseas to pay foreign suppliers.

Second, keeping dollars in the U.S. strengthens this effect. When companies source domestically, payments stay within the American financial system rather than funding foreign trade deficits. This could bolster the dollar’s value long-term, reducing reliance on imported inflation. For the working class, this translates to more stable purchasing power compared to a world where cheap imports mask wage stagnation.

Tariffs are also a strong negotiation tool to force other countries to lower their tariffs. If this works, we will see demand for US goods abroad increase, which could encourage even more manufacturing growth. There is definitely risk - China, sitting on a $400 billion trade surplus with the US, could dig in, escalating a trade war—higher prices, fewer exports, and a hit to both workers and markets.

The benefits aren’t instant—short-term inflation from pricier goods could sting, with estimates of a 1-2% CPI bump in 2025. But over a decade, if tariffs stick and manufacturing takes root, job growth could outpace that pain.

The top 10% wealthiest people own 90% of U.S. equities. Given that the tariffs look to cause growth in the middle-class at the expense of the wealthy, I'm still optimistic.

PS

BTC is showing itself as a superior store of value compared the the S&P


Conservative tariff wars fail b/c they don’t invest in industrial policy to meet the demands for goods. They always just free market it.

Tariffs for the sake of tariffs is a foolish errand. There is no financial end game here that benefits the bottom 90%


They tried this back in the 1930s and it made the depression worse. Smoot-Hawley. Why are we doing this again? Oh, right, the dumbest president ever has too much power. This won't end well.

It really is incredible how Trump supporters went from pissing and screaming about how bad the economy was and how big a recession we were in last year to "actually, crashing the stock market and going into a recession are good things" not 3 months into the term

You can't reason with these people, they're just a straight up cult.
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Re: OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc. 

Post#1543 » by EnigmatiC » Mon Apr 7, 2025 1:53 pm

Have you guys said thank you once?
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Re: OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc. 

Post#1544 » by DOT » Mon Apr 7, 2025 3:25 pm

EnigmatiC wrote:Have you guys said thank you once?

Hey, at least when the penguins show up to negotiate and end to their tariffs, they will be wearing suits.
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Re: OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc. 

Post#1545 » by Garbagelo » Mon Apr 7, 2025 4:23 pm

This is probably one of the most obvious buy the dip scenarios I've ever seen in my trading career in the stock market

The global order isn't going to change, the only thing changing is shares of high performing companies going from weak hands to stronger hands

The market is moved by money printing and alot of that is coming and will be greater than ever. People that think trade actually matters probably believe in fundamentals analysis too which has done nothing but underperform S&P 500 since the beginning of its existence.
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Re: OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc. 

Post#1546 » by Stannis » Tue Apr 8, 2025 8:07 pm

From +5% to -2% today.

The market looks very bleak and hopeless at the moment.
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Re: OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc. 

Post#1547 » by stuporman » Tue Apr 8, 2025 8:33 pm

The tariffs in Trump's first term disrupted supply chains stressing the smaller businesses with additional operating, material and manufacturing costs and drove many family farms to sell, otherwise lose everything, to big agricorps further consolidating America's domestic food supply into fewer hands.

This created inflation that was only masked by covid for a couple of years but came roaring back after it, which then for conservatives was conveniently blamed on Biden. Let's ignore that corporations posted record profits quarter after quarter that exceeded the inflation rate, b-b-but it was Biden because...cost of eggs.

So now we have round 2 of fiscal malfeasance and corporate fealty by an administration that will destroy the lives of average people and find someone else to blame which the cultish Magats and GOPers are going to believe is who did it to them...not believe what their eyes tell them as they see it happen right before them.

The wealthy make money as the market goes up and down both ways, they don't feel the pain of inflated costs or see their retirements damaged by these policies, it's the average citizen that do. All the cuts to social safety net and government agencies harm the average person as the wealthy continue to get piles of money pushed at them.

Then the media, who are the mouthpieces of the wealthy and corporations, and politicians, who are their lapdogs hoping to get treats and approving pats on the head, will blame China, the left, the poor, POC immigrants...everyone except who did it to them. Which will be believed by those who want to blame these for everything anyway.

As average people suffer this summer because of these policies, expect a steady stream of publicity stunts by this administration and the GOP about culture war stuff and immigration raids. As if a few transgendered athletes playing girl sports or the people doing the jobs that Americans won't are the reason for it all.

They will be told it is and will be accepted as the truth by many. Even if some who voted for Trump and the GOP don't believe them, are upset with them, they'll still devotedly vote for them because...God, guns and girls. Rinse, repeat, every election cycle, there's no reasoning with people who believe they are in a holy war.
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Re: OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc. 

Post#1548 » by robillionaire » Wed Apr 9, 2025 3:44 am

I got all out the day before liberation day aka the day a moron liberates you from your livelihood money and retirement, feel pretty good about that and have no intention to touch any of it for the foreseeable future as I no longer believe in the future of the U.S. in any capacity
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Post#1549 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Apr 9, 2025 8:43 am

robillionaire wrote:I got all out the day before liberation day aka the day a moron liberates you from your livelihood money and retirement, feel pretty good about that and have no intention to touch any of it for the foreseeable future as I no longer believe in the future of the U.S. in any capacity

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Re: OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc. 

Post#1550 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Apr 9, 2025 10:47 am

DOT wrote:
Jalen Bluntson wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Conservative tariff wars fail b/c they don’t invest in industrial policy to meet the demands for goods. They always just free market it.

Tariffs for the sake of tariffs is a foolish errand. There is no financial end game here that benefits the bottom 90%


They tried this back in the 1930s and it made the depression worse. Smoot-Hawley. Why are we doing this again? Oh, right, the dumbest president ever has too much power. This won't end well.

It really is incredible how Trump supporters went from pissing and screaming about how bad the economy was and how big a recession we were in last year to "actually, crashing the stock market and going into a recession are good things" not 3 months into the term

You can't reason with these people, they're just a straight up cult.


Not to mention the fact that creating the manufacturing infrastructure necessary to achieve these dreams of America becoming a sweatshop haven will take a lot more than "a few years", and this notion that Americans are going to line up to build iPhones in said sweatshops that will cost 25x more than they do now for minimum wages or less when Americans are already being crushed...none of it is based in reality.

This isn't feasible and the current trajectory isn't sustainable. Manufacturing won't come back at all, and in the next 6 months there will be violent instability in every sector that you can imagine. The public sector has been destroyed and now it's the private sectors turn.

For instance, dude is now calling for tariffs on pharma imports, which is madness considering that Americans are already paying more for medication than they should be due to this stupid ass system.

I work in pharma, a product manufactured for like a few bucks costs $200 a prescription here, while in Canada it costs $25.

Now imagine what happens when tariffs on imported drugs start to happen. This also doesn't take into account the fact that pharmaceutical companies and pharmacies lose money selling specific drugs and filling prescriptions for said drugs due to how the system is set up, and you might see meds that people really need being taken off the market entirely...but that's another topic.

Either way, it's a complete scam on American citizens, and those costs are all about to skyrocket and medications will become very unaffordable. Ozempic? Pffft. That's getting marked up. But what about Diabetes meds? Cardiovascular disease meds? Cancer meds? Mental health meds? If you have elderly parents or family with chronic illnesses, things are going to get really bad. This transcends all political leanings and beliefs. I don't care who you voted for. It doesn't matter anymore.

There are millions of Americans that don't realize that they are about to die.

In terms of economic pain, Americans are about to learn that we've had it good for a long time in terms of costs for literally everything compared to other countries. My family in Bermuda routinely came up here to buy stuff like clothes, sneakers, electronics etc because the cost is significantly less here than it is in Bermuda. Not anymore once the prices start to skyrocket, and they will as tariffs and price gouging will break average households.

Good luck all, but this is going to end badly and many of us aren't gonna make it to see better days. I've already resigned myself to the fact that it might be me or my family/friends/loved ones.
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Post#1551 » by Jalen Bluntson » Wed Apr 9, 2025 11:59 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
DOT wrote:
Jalen Bluntson wrote:
They tried this back in the 1930s and it made the depression worse. Smoot-Hawley. Why are we doing this again? Oh, right, the dumbest president ever has too much power. This won't end well.

It really is incredible how Trump supporters went from pissing and screaming about how bad the economy was and how big a recession we were in last year to "actually, crashing the stock market and going into a recession are good things" not 3 months into the term

You can't reason with these people, they're just a straight up cult.


Not to mention the fact that creating the manufacturing infrastructure necessary to achieve these dreams of America becoming a sweatshop haven will take a lot more than "a few years", and this notion that Americans are going to line up to build iPhones in said sweatshops that will cost 25x more than they do now for minimum wages or less when Americans are already being crushed...none of it is based in reality.

This isn't feasible and the current trajectory isn't sustainable. Manufacturing won't come back at all, and in the next 6 months there will be violent instability in every sector that you can imagine. The public sector has been destroyed and now it's the private sectors turn.

For instance, dude is now calling for tariffs on pharma imports, which is madness considering that Americans are already paying more for medication than they should be due to this stupid ass system.

I work in pharma, a product manufactured for like a few bucks costs $200 a prescription here, while in Canada it costs $25.

Now imagine what happens when tariffs on imported drugs start to happen. This also doesn't take into account the fact that pharmaceutical companies and pharmacies lose money selling specific drugs and filling prescriptions for said drugs due to how the system is set up, and you might see meds that people really need being taken off the market entirely...but that's another topic.

Either way, it's a complete scam on American citizens, and those costs are all about to skyrocket and medications will become very unaffordable. Ozempic? Pffft. That's getting marked up. But what about Diabetes meds? Cardiovascular disease meds? Cancer meds? Mental health meds? If you have elderly parents or family with chronic illnesses, things are going to get really bad. This transcends all political leanings and beliefs. I don't care who you voted for. It doesn't matter anymore.

There are millions of Americans that don't realize that they are about to die.

In terms of economic pain, Americans are about to learn that we've had it good for a long time in terms of costs for literally everything compared to other countries. My family in Bermuda routinely came up here to buy stuff like clothes, sneakers, electronics etc because the cost is significantly less here than it is in Bermuda. Not anymore once the prices start to skyrocket, and they will as tariffs and price gouging will break average households.

Good luck all, but this is going to end badly and many of us aren't gonna make it to see better days. I've already resigned myself to the fact that it might be me or my family/friends/loved ones.


Just heard an interesting quote. Instead of America first he's making it America alone. Alienating ALL of our allies. Crushing peoples retirement funds in real time. After creating the most divisive political atmospheres since the civil war and turning families and friends against one another. Lie after lie after lie for the last four years about he economy and everything else he opened his mouth about. With so called news outlets perpetuating these lies in the loudest echo chamber of BS the world has ever seen.. Blatantly pushing the billionaires oligarchy out into the open. People are spinning Russia/NK are good and Canada/Greenland/Ukraine are bad.

I can't. Congress needs to be taken out behind the woodshed for allowing this.

We are the 2nd largest, manufacturing country in the world do we really think we can pass a country with 10x our population? What are we talking about about here? Our economy was in recovery from A PANDEMIC and things were just getting back to normal for most people. This clown has destroyed everything in 70 days!! The list of atrocities and broken laws he's getting away with grows by the day. This can't drag on for for your years. Four months is looking scary as it is. McDonald Trump needs to go and all of his bootlickers with him. Preferably on JULY 20th!!!
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Re: OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc. 

Post#1552 » by Stannis » Wed Apr 9, 2025 1:24 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:This isn't feasible and the current trajectory isn't sustainable. Manufacturing won't come back at all, and in the next 6 months there will be violent instability in every sector that you can imagine. The public sector has been destroyed and now it's the private sectors turn.


I think Americans will be in for a rude awakening that maybe we aren't as good with our hands like we thought.

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Post#1553 » by Stannis » Wed Apr 9, 2025 1:27 pm

Garbagelo wrote:This is probably one of the most obvious buy the dip scenarios I've ever seen in my trading career in the stock market

The global order isn't going to change, the only thing changing is shares of high performing companies going from weak hands to stronger hands

The market is moved by money printing and alot of that is coming and will be greater than ever. People that think trade actually matters probably believe in fundamentals analysis too which has done nothing but underperform S&P 500 since the beginning of its existence.


Fundamental analysts-Warren Buffett mimickers might actually win here.

I thought the SP500 was outperforming fundamentals for decades precisely because the US Markets were viewed as the Global Market. Everybody around the world was buying US stock, bonds, and debt. If that changes, we are fvked. Microsoft/Google/Apple/Meta could be trading at the same valuations as AliBaba and Baidu.
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Post#1554 » by DOT » Wed Apr 9, 2025 1:34 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:Americans are about to learn

They won't though

No matter what happens, they will never learn

They will just continue to blame whoever is the villain of the week to the GOP.
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Re: OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc. 

Post#1555 » by CharlesOakley » Wed Apr 9, 2025 1:35 pm

stuporman wrote:The tariffs in Trump's first term disrupted supply chains stressing the smaller businesses with additional operating, material and manufacturing costs and drove many family farms to sell, otherwise lose everything, to big agricorps further consolidating America's domestic food supply into fewer hands.

This created inflation that was only masked by covid for a couple of years but came roaring back after it, which then for conservatives was conveniently blamed on Biden. Let's ignore that corporations posted record profits quarter after quarter that exceeded the inflation rate, b-b-but it was Biden because...cost of eggs.

So now we have round 2 of fiscal malfeasance and corporate fealty by an administration that will destroy the lives of average people and find someone else to blame which the cultish Magats and GOPers are going to believe is who did it to them...not believe what their eyes tell them as they see it happen right before them.

The wealthy make money as the market goes up and down both ways, they don't feel the pain of inflated costs or see their retirements damaged by these policies, it's the average citizen that do. All the cuts to social safety net and government agencies harm the average person as the wealthy continue to get piles of money pushed at them.

Then the media, who are the mouthpieces of the wealthy and corporations, and politicians, who are their lapdogs hoping to get treats and approving pats on the head, will blame China, the left, the poor, POC immigrants...everyone except who did it to them. Which will be believed by those who want to blame these for everything anyway.

As average people suffer this summer because of these policies, expect a steady stream of publicity stunts by this administration and the GOP about culture war stuff and immigration raids. As if a few transgendered athletes playing girl sports or the people doing the jobs that Americans won't are the reason for it all.

They will be told it is and will be accepted as the truth by many. Even if some who voted for Trump and the GOP don't believe them, are upset with them, they'll still devotedly vote for them because...God, guns and girls. Rinse, repeat, every election cycle, there's no reasoning with people who believe they are in a holy war.


Both parties have spent the last 80 years turning on the money printer. The dollar has lost 98% of it's purchasing power over that time. In 1913, a dollar could buy what $35+ can today (per CPI inflation calculators). Even a steady 2% inflation rate halves a dollar’s value in about 35 years. This is the target rate of the Fed. The Fed's fiscal policies, and using the money printers to do quantitative easing and bailouts, has held their on the scale for the wealthy for decades.

We have one of the most over-bought markets of all-time, the top 10% of the wealth own 90% of the shares in the market so they absolutely did take the brunt of the loses. We also have the debt on our interest and the debt grows faster than GDP (it has for decades—debt-to-GDP is now 120% vs. 35% in 1980). In 2024, interest was already the fourth-largest budget item after Social Security, healthcare, and income security. By 2030, it could be #1, starving other priorities.

We are no longer able to pay off this debt. We run a 2.5 Trillion annual national debt with 34 T needed to pay back. We can't even balance the budget even with aggressive cuts. The U.S. could pay off its debt without printing—by running trillion-dollar surpluses for decades through brutal tax hikes, spending cuts, or miraculous growth. But the political, economic, and social pain makes it borderline impossible. Historically, nations don’t pay off debts this big—they outgrow them, inflate them away, or restructure. Without printing, the U.S. would need a fiscal discipline it hasn’t shown since the 19th century. Don’t hold your breath.

Printing money—or letting inflation erode the debt’s real value—is easier. If inflation hits 5% and GDP grows at 2%, the debt’s burden shrinks without a dime repaid. But this screws savers, spikes living costs, and risks hyperinflation if overdone. This is where we are headed and it has nothing to do with political party.
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Re: OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc. 

Post#1556 » by Stannis » Wed Apr 9, 2025 2:06 pm

I dunno. Sounds like he wants more time to dump shares on retail lol

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Re: OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc. 

Post#1557 » by Stannis » Wed Apr 9, 2025 2:54 pm

This is the kind stuff that truly worries me. Literally, USA competitive edge in pretty much everything starts with TSMC. This is the last company that should be getting tariffs.

Trump says he told TSMC it would pay 100% tax if it doesn't build in US
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-says-he-told-tsmc-it-would-pay-100-tax-if-it-doesnt-build-us-2025-04-09/
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Re: OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc. 

Post#1558 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Apr 9, 2025 3:05 pm

Stannis wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:This isn't feasible and the current trajectory isn't sustainable. Manufacturing won't come back at all, and in the next 6 months there will be violent instability in every sector that you can imagine. The public sector has been destroyed and now it's the private sectors turn.


I think Americans will be in for a rude awakening that maybe we aren't as good with our hands like we thought.

Working in a factory is nothing like whatever hobbies we do in our garages.


I saw one of the administration's representatives talking about how fired public sector workers can work in factories. What factories? Who is going to train career federal white collar servants to become sweatshop laborers? We don't have the infrastructure to do any of that even if it was feasible, or realistic that someone who spent their life working for the CDC is gonna run to go assemble iPhones.

Also, there's a lot that goes into manufacturing that people here aren't even equipped to handle from a knowledge standpoint alone. The people spearheading this think that they can bring the US back to the 1950s.
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Re: OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc. 

Post#1559 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Apr 9, 2025 3:06 pm

Stannis wrote:This is the kind stuff that truly worries me. Literally, USA competitive edge in pretty much everything starts with TSMC. This is the last company that should be getting tariffs.

Trump says he told TSMC it would pay 100% tax if it doesn't build in US
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-says-he-told-tsmc-it-would-pay-100-tax-if-it-doesnt-build-us-2025-04-09/


Trump will literally be dead by the time TSMC would be able to open up a production facility here.

It's madness bro. It's gonna get worse.
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Re: OT: Crypto, Stocks, Bonds, Real Estate, Investments, IRAs & Finances, etc. 

Post#1560 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Apr 9, 2025 3:07 pm

Stannis wrote:I dunno. Sounds like he wants more time to dump shares on retail lol

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


He's begging retail to catch the falling knife.

Good luck to all. We are cooked
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