The official fire Chris Finch thread

[bluethunder0005]

Jenkins sucks as a coach and is worse than Finch so getting that stated now.

This is a moronic statement.
Jenkins is fantastic both from an X's and O's and player development perspective.
Jenkins came back from 25 points down in the 2nd half 3 times in a playoff series against Finch and there was nothing Finch could do to stop it.

He finds 2nd round picks and other teams leftovers every year and turns them into plus rotation players.
The list is a mile long.
He turned one of the stupidest players in the league in Ja Morant into a top 10 performer.

Read the GM's statement:

"I'm genuinely appreciative of Taylor's contributions to this team and this city over the past six seasons," Grizzlies general manager Zach Kleiman said in a statement. "This was a difficult decision, given the consistent and tangible development of our players and overall success under Taylor's leadership. I wish Taylor the very best going forward."

If that doesn't passive aggressively say "This wasn't my decision and he didnt deserve it" I don't know what does.

There has to be more to this like a massive personality conflict, ownership tantrum, or something non basketball related..
Taylor Jenkins is more valuable to winning for that franchise than even Ja Morant.

Like it or not, Chris Finch is here until Anthony Edwards requests a coaching change.
He's a league average coach and right now he doesn't have a lot to work with beyond an extremely banged up Anthony Edwards.

He's not the one who traded 7 years of draft picks for Rob Dillingham and a declining Rudy Gobert and effed up our salary cap in the process.
He's not the one who gave away KAT for 2 mediocre to bad players.

Jenkins came back because they killed us on the boards due to that version of the Wolves having no size outside of KAT. They didn't make adjustments to beat our defense, it was legit just Brandon Clarke killing us in the 4th quarter getting multiple offensive boards.

Memphis drafts well and that's more on the organization than it is Jenkins. There's a reason he's only won 1 playoff series despite having the higher seeded team in most of his trips there. He's not a good coach, or at least not anything special to where firing Finch and replacing him with Jenkins is any improvement to the team.

[younggunsmn]

Not at all saying we should fire Finch and hire Jenkins, just that Jenkins is a good coach and he outcoached Finch badly in that series.
You bring up Brandon Clarke killing us, well it was because of Jenkins he was out there instead of Steven Adams.
Jenkins made plenty of great adjustments in that series and Finch could do nothing to stop the bleeding.

It's not his fault Dillon Brooks is a moron and Ja Morant will mentally be 12 years old forever.
He got absolutely cucked by his front office this year and wasn't even in control of his own schemes.

[shrink]

I thought I’d post this, for the group that blames Finch for not just coming down on Ant for his late game bs.

If he's lost the team, which this certainly sounds like, it makes plenty of sense. You're the coach, not some passive bystander that gets to just observe that players aren't doing what they are supposed to be doing

Holding people accountable and doing it well is one of the toughest parts of any leadership role.

[Klomp]

I thought I’d post this, for the group that blames Finch for not just coming down on Ant for his late game bs.

"We treat this like just a normal game while Minnesota treats it as a rivalry"

[life_saver]

Malone, Jenkins are probably better coaches than Finch...if the team ends up having underwhelming playoffs, then wouldn't be surprised to see the team move on from Finch

[Neeva]

Malone, Jenkins are probably better coaches than Finch...if the team ends up having underwhelming playoffs, then wouldn't be surprised to see the team move on from Finch

Wolves would definitely have home court seeding with one of those head coaches instead of Finch, no question.

[bluethunder0005]

Neither Jenkins or Malone are good coaches but I'm pretty fed up with Finch right about now. Rudy and Randle shouldn't share the court together for more than a couple minutes here and there yet Randle continues to start. Remember all that growth Jaden had until both of them were back and now he's relegated to standing on the perimeter again? Plus the abysmal basketball IQ of this team is hard to watch.

[TimberKat]

Neither Jenkins or Malone are good coaches but I'm pretty fed up with Finch right about now. Rudy and Randle shouldn't share the court together for more than a couple minutes here and there yet Randle continues to start. Remember all that growth Jaden had until both of them were back and now he's relegated to standing on the perimeter again? Plus the abysmal basketball IQ of this team is hard to watch.

Jenkins had better records and Malone won a chip. Do those guys have better command of the locker room and how players play? Maybe Ant needs to go elsewhere to learn to play team game?

[Loaf_of_bread]

Find it interesting that the first few pages of this thread align with the current state of the team..

Sucks we have talent, made it to wcf last year, yet won’t do anything this year b/c of coaching..

[Neeva]

Find it interesting that the first few pages of this thread align with the current state of the team..

Sucks we have talent, made it to wcf last year, yet won’t do anything this year b/c of coaching..

Connelly better move on from Finch this off season , he will just be delaying the inevitable if he doesn’t!

[winforlose]

95-71 in the fourth to 103-110 to lose a must win. Is there anything else to say?

[Klomp]

Malone, Jenkins are probably better coaches than Finch...if the team ends up having underwhelming playoffs, then wouldn't be surprised to see the team move on from Finch

I don't necessarily agree that Malone and Jenkins are better. To be honest, after the Top 3 or so coaches, there's probably a glut of roughly 10-15 coaches that don't have much separation in their actual coaching ability. What separates guys to make it feel like a difference is situations. I don't think Mike Malone suddenly overhauled his coaching philosophy in his time between Sacramento and Denver. Nick Nurse has a title to his name too, so why did things go so poorly in Philadelphia?

That being said, the repeated same issues for the majority of the past four seasons are concerning. And that's the kind of thing that can potentially result in a coaching change. I don't think it's as dire as others think though, and I don't think a change is some magic cure-all either.

There is one thing that is worth monitoring, however. Micah Nori. I have to think he could be one of the heavy favorites to land the coaching job in Denver. Regardless, I don't want to lose him, especially not to a division rival. So if we have to make a change in order to keep him in town, I honestly think it is worth considering.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

Actually I see Finch more like a holiday camp manager with naughty teenagers than a real coach. You can’t let
Randle so long in a game like this where he did nothing good, you can’t let ANT doing the same mistake again and again. He is a basketball coach no doubt about it but he is such a poor manager. Whatever the business all team have talents . Egos but a good manager fix problems when they are. Finch seems unable to do it. At that stage I hope TC fire him and make a duo Mori-Mike as coach. We will be much better..

[minimus]

Malone, Jenkins are probably better coaches than Finch...if the team ends up having underwhelming playoffs, then wouldn't be surprised to see the team move on from Finch

I don't necessarily agree that Malone and Jenkins are better. To be honest, after the Top 3 or so coaches, there's probably a glut of roughly 10-15 coaches that don't have much separation in their actual coaching ability. What separates guys to make it feel like a difference is situations. I don't think Mike Malone suddenly overhauled his coaching philosophy in his time between Sacramento and Denver. Nick Nurse has a title to his name too, so why did things go so poorly in Philadelphia?

That being said, the repeated same issues for the majority of the past four seasons are concerning. And that's the kind of thing that can potentially result in a coaching change. I don't think it's as dire as others think though, and I don't think a change is some magic cure-all either.

There is one thing that is worth monitoring, however. Micah Nori. I have to think he could be one of the heavy favorites to land the coaching job in Denver. Regardless, I don't want to lose him, especially not to a division rival. So if we have to make a change in order to keep him in town, I honestly think it is worth considering.

I want to see changes in coaching staff in general. Good coaching staff makes everything easier. For instance, MEM fired Jenkins, but they have Tuomas Iisalo. I like Micah Nori, but he is one who is also responsible for in game decisions, which is (surprise!) one of the most criticised areas of MIN coaching.

[Baseline81]

Wolves would definitely have home court seeding with one of those head coaches instead of Finch, no question.

It's comical at this point that there are some in this forum who refuse to accept this. His defenders spout one excuse after another.

I continue to come back to the word "standards." Why is it that Memphis and now Denver can fire their coaches this close to the playoffs? It's because their ownership demands better. But because Minnesota hasn't, historically, been a playoff team, we're suppose to be fine just making the post season.

[shrink]

Wolves would definitely have home court seeding with one of those head coaches instead of Finch, no question.

It's comical at this point that there are some in this forum who refuse to accept this. His defenders spout one excuse after another.

I continue to come back to the word "standards." Why is it that Memphis and now Denver can fire their coaches this close to the playoffs? It's because their ownership demands better. But because Minnesota hasn't, historically, been a playoff team, we're suppose to be fine just making the post season.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of Finch, this feels like you’re just trying to pull things out of the air.

The owners for Denver (cheap, selling multiple 1sts) and Memphis (Ja Morant?) are certainly not known for having “standards.”

And even if they did, both of these firings at this point in the season have been universally ridiculed by the NBA community.

[Baseline81]

Regardless of what anyone thinks of Finch, this feels like you’re just trying to pull things out of the air.

The owners for Denver (cheap, selling multiple 1sts) and Memphis (Ja Morant?) are certainly not known for having “standards.”

And even if they did, both of these firings at this point in the season have been universally ridiculed by the NBA community.

They may not be known for it, but they are choosing it.

Zach Kleiman, Grizzlies general manager and executive vice president of basketball operations:

"I came to the conclusion that this is in the best interest of the team, and urgency is a core principle of ours, so decided to go on with the move."

Josh Kroenke, vice chairman of Kroenke Sports and Entertainment:

"There were certain trends that were very worrisome to me at different points in time," Kroenke told Altitude TV. "But they would get masked by a few wins here and there and in the world of professional sports, when winning and losing is your currency, winning can mask a lot of things."

"I think there's more to [the team] than has been accomplished so far," he said. "How much more is in that group? I don't think that I know the answer to that, I don't think anyone knows the answer to that. But I think I have a belief that there's more in that group that can be accomplished and I look forward to seeing what they can do."

Who cares if the NBA community ridicules you? Do we regret hiring Finch over Vanterpool? Wolves' brass was heavily criticized, even called racist by Stephen A. Smith.

[thinktank]

You can say “so many 4th quarter collapses and poor clutch play.”

You can also say “yeah but so many 4th quarter comebacks.”

To which I say, “both of those point to vast inconsistency and that’s on a coach to mitigate that. Finch hasn’t.”

[Guest84]

The way things have been trending around the league, last night would be a fireable offense. No, I'm not advocating for or against it. Just think Finch could've been relieved of his duties in another situation/organization by now.

[cupcakesnake]

You can say “so many 4th quarter collapses and poor clutch play.”

You can also say “yeah but so many 4th quarter comebacks.”

To which I say, “both of those point to vast inconsistency and that’s on a coach to mitigate that. Finch hasn’t.”

Just mentioned this in another thread, but it feels more appropriate to throw into this one.

Last night's collapse had nothing to do with coaching. The scheme we used to shred the 2-3 zone was the correct scheme and it worked. Extremely sloppy passing is what did us in, and the coaching staff cannot make the players passes crisper.

Schematically, the Wolves were set up fine. Conley (or Ant) lured out traps, Naz cut to the nail, and boom the zone was broken and Milwaukee was repeatedly put into scramble mode. We'd always end up 1-2 passes away from an open shot, but we repeatedly bungle the passes, throwing them WAY too close to Milwaukee's arms. It wasn't great defense by Milwaukee, our players simply kept handing them the ball. The coaching staff even had a nice counter: elevator screens for Ant so he could split the trap, get into the middle and attack the basket.

There is a tendency to treat coaching as a magic "je ne sais quoi" that motivates the troops to inspired play or fails to. Sometimes it can be hard to break down what is coaching and what isn't. Last night- to my eye- it was super obvious. Right schemes, poor execution. Schemes are on the coaches, execution is on the players. Last night can't be put in the pile of data in the case to fire Finch. Coaches did their job. Players didn't.