knicks lose....i blame mpharris who blames thibs

[Guano]

Not going to lie I don’t agree with the take that OG should’ve fouled Tatum. OG just straight up misplayed it. Part of the reason Tatum even got open is bc OG fell for a fake that made it seem like Tatum was breaking for the rim.

If you’re OG in that situation you have to know that Tatum isn’t going to take a layup down three. That was just straight up bad defense and bad situational awareness.

Youre not wrong - og fcked up

But it's the job of the coach to not to put your players in bad situations.

While I agree we should’ve fouled, OG did really good on Tatum overall. Tatum just had better offense on great defense on that shot. I’ve never seen Tatum do a harden esque step back like that. Must’ve caught OG by surprise lol

Ngl, that shot was filthy. And he is strong af cause to get a push off on og like that takes strength. Your boy is nice.

Also fck Boston

[god shammgod]

Honestly, a healthy Horford is more damaging to us than Brown, if he plays in that series we're cooked regardless of whether Brown is out or not. He misses a game, and it's close, he plays in the 3 others and it's blow out city, he has a +33 net rating against use which is highest on their team vs us.

He stops the KAT post ups with weakside help from KP, and on the other end they're still 5 out.

it didn't work yesterday but the knicks were able to really focus on tatum defensively because brown wasn't a threat. that wouldn't be the case if he was healthy. if kp, white, holiday beat you then so be it.

i would have liked to seen our double big lineup against theirs. if we could have bullied them on the boards.

If I had to pick between the two of them, I'd want Horford to miss the series. I think we've done a better job on Brown, he's shooting 39% FG and 33% 3PT against us on the season, while Al is 50/50 from both.

he's been mediocre the whole year for whatever reason. maybe it's the injury. but one shoots a lot more. and he's shown in the past he can elevate in the playoffs.

[Knicksfan1992]

Just a quick note on the foul up 3 thing. I want to be clear I support fouling up 3 before the anti Thibs brigade jumps down my throat... The positives outweigh the negatives. However, there is some logic to not fouling and letting the cards fall where they may on a Celtics scramble attempt off an inbounds.

A) The Knicks were awful last night shooting FT's. You foul the Celtics and assume they make both. Now you open yourself up to straight up losing the game if you miss your FT. Worst they can do without fouling is tie the game and allow you to get the last shot which is what happened. That's literally the worst case scenario.

B) You also open yourself up to a situation where they try to miss a FT on purpose (I still have nightmares of the Luka game where ironically Thibs did foul up 3 lol)

C) If you mistime the foul there is a slim chance you cause a shooting foul to tie the game anyway.

Yes fouling up 3 makes sense but acting as if it's some foolproof plan is disingenuous. We've seen it backfire plenty of times.

It's a philosophy thing. I don't care which side of the fence Thibs prefers, but he seems like he doesn't want to definitively pick one. That is where the confusion comes from and it seems to carry over with the team on the floor.

A valid and fair criticism IMO. Seems like Thibs wants to feel out the situation too much instead of just picking one way and living with the results...

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I think this is obvious but there are ways to set it up better. Why have a nonshooter in jHart in the game with 3 secs left. We continue to have issues inbounding the ball. Small sht like that. We hardly ever run a PnR with kat and Brunson to put pressure on the d.

I think some of that stuff is valid. And also that it is a 1v1 game at the end a lot.

Not only that, but it was a big contrast between the stuff they were running late game, vs what we did. Yes they isolated Tatum, but they were also spamming screens with KP so he could get open looks from three.

The coach does not care that one player is blowing up our offense as long as he rebounds, it's absolutely incredible at this point. Mikal is off the ball because Hart has to be on it, KAT/Brunson can't run screens the way White/Pritchard & KP do because Hart's defender is playing a 1 man zone, we cannot set screens with Mitch when Hart is on the floor, because it's essentially two non shooting centers. I think we sold our anti-Hart stock too early, it's sky rocketing without us.


If a perimeter player is basically a center, just play a center instead.

Devastating that jHart has become such a liability and that terrible people(meLo) were right about him. Though jHart in the beginning of the year was money from 3 and well now he is back to being treated like he is draymond out there.

And it's noticeable how much he fcks up our spacing when we play a team like the Cs. They get such clean looks compared to ours. Cause they don't respect jHart at all on offense.

We have to find a starter to replace him in the offseason. I still think he is valuable off the bench. Just can't have him starting and to keep his mins under 30 a game.

He plays because of the rebounding, that's really what it comes down to, if this were 2004 he'd be a 2nd team All NBA guy, but unfortunately a perimeter player that can't shoot is just pointless.

The Celtics got rid of Robert Williams / Smart because they realized you need more shooting, you can never have enough. I don't know if the Knicks will have the balls to do it to Hart, you replace him with like 10 different wings that make similar or less and we'd be better.

[3toheadmelo]

I think this is obvious but there are ways to set it up better. Why have a nonshooter in jHart in the game with 3 secs left. We continue to have issues inbounding the ball. Small sht like that. We hardly ever run a PnR with kat and Brunson to put pressure on the d.

I think some of that stuff is valid. And also that it is a 1v1 game at the end a lot.

Not only that, but it was a big contrast between the stuff they were running late game, vs what we did. Yes they isolated Tatum, but they were also spamming screens with KP so he could get open looks from three.

The coach does not care that one player is blowing up our offense as long as he rebounds, it's absolutely incredible at this point. Mikal is off the ball because Hart has to be on it, KAT/Brunson can't run screens the way White/Pritchard & KP do because Hart's defender is playing a 1 man zone, we cannot set screens with Mitch when Hart is on the floor, because it's essentially two non shooting centers. I think we sold our anti-Hart stock too early, it's sky rocketing without us.


If a perimeter player is basically a center, just play a center instead.

Devastating that jHart has become such a liability and that terrible people(meLo) were right about him. Though jHart in the beginning of the year was money from 3 and well now he is back to being treated like he is draymond out there.

And it's noticeable how much he fcks up our spacing when we play a team like the Cs. They get such clean looks compared to ours. Cause they don't respect jHart at all on offense.

We have to find a starter to replace him in the offseason. I still think he is valuable off the bench. Just can't have him starting and to keep his mins under 30 a game.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

it didn't work yesterday but the knicks were able to really focus on tatum defensively because brown wasn't a threat. that wouldn't be the case if he was healthy. if kp, white, holiday beat you then so be it.

i would have liked to seen our double big lineup against theirs. if we could have bullied them on the boards.

If I had to pick between the two of them, I'd want Horford to miss the series. I think we've done a better job on Brown, he's shooting 39% FG and 33% 3PT against us on the season, while Al is 50/50 from both.

he's been mediocre the whole year for whatever reason. maybe it's the injury. but one shoots a lot more. and he's shown in the past he can elevate in the playoffs.

It's not just the shooting though, Horford just doesn't make mistakes on defense, and he can switch onto 1-5 somehow still. He needs to be tested for something, I don't know what, but anytime he comes back from DR I demand that he be tested at the airport.


It's a luxury they have both, but big Al is just annoying at this point.

[3toheadmelo]

Youre not wrong - og fcked up

But it's the job of the coach to not to put your players in bad situations.

While I agree we should’ve fouled, OG did really good on Tatum overall. Tatum just had better offense on great defense on that shot. I’ve never seen Tatum do a harden esque step back like that. Must’ve caught OG by surprise lol

Ngl, that shot was filthy. And he is strong af cause to get a push off on og like that takes strength. Your boy is nice.

Also fck Boston

Hopefully we can steal him from Boston one day

[Guano]

Not only that, but it was a big contrast between the stuff they were running late game, vs what we did. Yes they isolated Tatum, but they were also spamming screens with KP so he could get open looks from three.

The coach does not care that one player is blowing up our offense as long as he rebounds, it's absolutely incredible at this point. Mikal is off the ball because Hart has to be on it, KAT/Brunson can't run screens the way White/Pritchard & KP do because Hart's defender is playing a 1 man zone, we cannot set screens with Mitch when Hart is on the floor, because it's essentially two non shooting centers. I think we sold our anti-Hart stock too early, it's sky rocketing without us.


If a perimeter player is basically a center, just play a center instead.

Devastating that jHart has become such a liability and that terrible people(meLo) were right about him. Though jHart in the beginning of the year was money from 3 and well now he is back to being treated like he is draymond out there.

And it's noticeable how much he fcks up our spacing when we play a team like the Cs. They get such clean looks compared to ours. Cause they don't respect jHart at all on offense.

We have to find a starter to replace him in the offseason. I still think he is valuable off the bench. Just can't have him starting and to keep his mins under 30 a game.

He plays because of the rebounding, that's really what it comes down to, if this were 2004 he'd be a 2nd team All NBA guy, but unfortunately a perimeter player that can't shoot is just pointless.

The Celtics got rid of Robert Williams / Smart because they realized you need more shooting, you can never have enough. I don't know if the Knicks will have the balls to do it to Hart, you replace him with like 10 different wings that make similar or less and we'd be better.

Feels like we have to much nepotism going for that to happen.... though they shipped Dolans guy Randle outta here so who knows.

Leon looks like the kinda guy who would kill his young protege that saved his life at the end of a series to tie up a loose end. So im still hopeful he will do the right thing here.

[god shammgod]

If I had to pick between the two of them, I'd want Horford to miss the series. I think we've done a better job on Brown, he's shooting 39% FG and 33% 3PT against us on the season, while Al is 50/50 from both.

he's been mediocre the whole year for whatever reason. maybe it's the injury. but one shoots a lot more. and he's shown in the past he can elevate in the playoffs.

It's not just the shooting though, Horford just doesn't make mistakes on defense, and he can switch onto 1-5 somehow still. He needs to be tested for something, I don't know what, but anytime he comes back from DR I demand that he be tested at the airport.


It's a luxury they have both, but big Al is just annoying at this point.

this might be his last year there. or maybe they trade holiday. but i would guess it would be al who's gone because realistically how much longer of a career does he have ?

i'm not sure what they could get for kp so i assume he'll stay. as good as he is when healthy, he still misses a ton of games every year. plus it's the last year of his deal next year.

[mpharris36]

Just a quick note on the foul up 3 thing. I want to be clear I support fouling up 3 before the anti Thibs brigade jumps down my throat... The positives outweigh the negatives. However, there is some logic to not fouling and letting the cards fall where they may on a Celtics scramble attempt off an inbounds.

A) The Knicks were awful last night shooting FT's. You foul the Celtics and assume they make both. Now you open yourself up to straight up losing the game if you miss your FT. Worst they can do without fouling is tie the game and allow you to get the last shot which is what happened. That's literally the worst case scenario.

B) You also open yourself up to a situation where they try to miss a FT on purpose (I still have nightmares of the Luka game where ironically Thibs did foul up 3 lol)

C) If you mistime the foul there is a slim chance you cause a shooting foul to tie the game anyway.

Yes fouling up 3 makes sense but acting as if it's some foolproof plan is disingenuous. We've seen it backfire plenty of times.

So your defense of potentially not fouling is.

A) Brunson can miss a FT? I will live with that result

B) You can sub in Mitch and your best rebounders (since we had a timeout you can get the rebound and simultaneously call TO so mitch wouldn't be fouled if he got the rebound)

C) Tatum was walking the ball up the court for 3-4 seconds...he wasn't a threat to shoot at half court so there is no fear of him shooting to draw a foul from that far out. There was no urgency to pick him up full court and then just wrap him up while he was dribbling.

All this is "odds" based you play the best odds, that is why most teams foul (only dinosaurs don't foul in that situation). Your alternative scenarios rarely and I mean rarely come back to hurt a team. The most likely one is your team also missing FT's but at that point its on your players to make FT's and if they don't I can't blame the coach for that.

To allow a clean look from there best player down 3 with under 10 seconds is criminal. Its simply bad coaching.

[Guano]

it didn't work yesterday but the knicks were able to really focus on tatum defensively because brown wasn't a threat. that wouldn't be the case if he was healthy. if kp, white, holiday beat you then so be it.

i would have liked to seen our double big lineup against theirs. if we could have bullied them on the boards.

If I had to pick between the two of them, I'd want Horford to miss the series. I think we've done a better job on Brown, he's shooting 39% FG and 33% 3PT against us on the season, while Al is 50/50 from both.

he's been mediocre the whole year for whatever reason. maybe it's the injury. but one shoots a lot more. and he's shown in the past he can elevate in the playoffs.

Mf is 38 - he needs stop already. Where the hell is dystrophy and arthritis when you need it.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

he's been mediocre the whole year for whatever reason. maybe it's the injury. but one shoots a lot more. and he's shown in the past he can elevate in the playoffs.

It's not just the shooting though, Horford just doesn't make mistakes on defense, and he can switch onto 1-5 somehow still. He needs to be tested for something, I don't know what, but anytime he comes back from DR I demand that he be tested at the airport.


It's a luxury they have both, but big Al is just annoying at this point.

this might be his last year there. or maybe they trade holiday. but i would guess it would be al who's gone because realistically how much longer of a career does he have ?

i'm not sure what they could get for kp so i assume he'll stay. as good as he is when healthy, he still misses a ton of games every year.

I think next season is the last one they'll be whole, they're going to be the first $500 million team in American sports, they'll beat the record by $170-190 million which the Mets hold. The previous owner said the 2nd apron is the devil's work, but they could just sign Horford to a vet minimum to keep him around, which would suck.

They're going to start losing players, and because of the 2nd apron it's going to be hard for them to replenish what they lose. KP, White and Tatum are going to be their core IMO.

[JayTWill]

That’s the job of the guy inbounding the ball, to watch for the play develop. You can see who is reacting to what and there was plenty time to throw that lob but because it’s Mikal and he doesn’t have that type of awareness or IQ he just doesn’t make that play. He settles for the safe option. This is just one of the examples of how we lack in versatility. Celtics have multiple guys who could have made the read and pass as they have multiple guards and forwards with guard like abilities. We do not

Who throws a dangerous lob attempt with 3 seconds on the clock? Almost every out of bounds lob attempt in a late game situation will be with less than 1 second on the clock. The biggest benefit of a tie game in that situation is the ability to take the last shot or go to OT. Even if things miraculously played out the way you wanted it to the Knicks would have taken less than a second off the clock with the Celtics still having a chance to win the game in regulation with a scorching hot Tatum. The risk outweighed the reward substantially.

If Mikal throws that pass before even seeing the play develop you surely wouldn't be defending him when that play likely did not work. I'm not even sure if Thibs was looking for a lob in that situation. He may have been trying to create a switch or more confusion than actually occurred. How many lobs has KAT caught this year????

Dangerous lob attempt? Lmao it’s the basket we are scoring on there’s nothing dangerous it’s not the other basket. KAT was wide open. What play are you drawing up? I guarantee you it’s nothing that would have resulted in a better shot than the opportunity we had that we didn’t capitalize on.

Acting like KAT can’t catch a lob now, like he can’t make a layup

You have to throw a terrible pass for it to not go to KAT but this is Mikal we are talking about. The same airhead who fumbled a pass from KAT on the sideline and couldn’t catch a simple pass

So your plan was to throw a lob after you saw he was wide open even though KP could easily recover at that point or to just throw it before he was open because clearly he would come open???? And no i'm not calling a lob play against a 7'3 center for a center with limited lift that I never see catch lobs and just got hung on rim earlier in the game when he couldn't gauge the timing and distance of when to go up. Why would you call that play when you consider Mikal an "airhead"? I assume Thibs thinks he is one of the team's best inbounders since he is in that role quite often.

Mikal should have kept his eye on the ball when he fumbled it late in the overtime. I'm not sure what he would have done with it trapped in the corner with one the league's best defenders draped all over him but i'm sure Thibs had something great designed there.

[dakomish23]

The percentage of teammate field goals a player assisted on while they were on the floor

Knicks have the 3rd lowest ast% in the clutch

The Knicks have the 4th best win % in the clutch and average the second most assists per game in clutch situations though.

Denver has the highest ast % in the clutch with 68%, but average 2.4 APG in clutch situations.

The Knicks have an ast% of 46.9%, but average 2.1 APG in clutch situations.

So what that says is that all teams ISO in the clutch.

No it does not.

There is no stat currently on NBA.com that shows play type in the clutch by team that I’ve found. What we do know is that IF they pass the ball instead of usual ISO shot, we make those shots leading to a higher assists total for the amount of passes we make.

Thibs did the same thing with Randle before Brunson came. Nonstop iso clutch. He even **** did it with Aaron Affalo.

[dakomish23]

Knicks have the 3rd lowest ast% in the clutch

The Knicks have the 4th best win % in the clutch and average the second most assists per game in clutch situations though.

Denver has the highest ast % in the clutch with 68%, but average 2.4 APG in clutch situations.

The Knicks have an ast% of 46.9%, but average 2.1 APG in clutch situations.

So what that says is that all teams ISO in the clutch.

I think this is obvious but there are ways to set it up better. Why have a nonshooter in jHart in the game with 3 secs left. We continue to have issues inbounding the ball. Small sht like that. We hardly ever run a PnR with kat and Brunson to put pressure on the d.

I think some of that stuff is valid. And also that it is a 1v1 game at the end a lot.

Clutch is a close game with 5 mins left. I’m not talking about 20 secs left and we need a bucket to take the lead or tie it scenarios. Watch down the stretch of every close game. All Thibs has is ISO. Other teams run offense till those final moments. We don’t.

[3toheadmelo]

Knicks have the 3rd lowest ast% in the clutch

The Knicks have the 4th best win % in the clutch and average the second most assists per game in clutch situations though.

Denver has the highest ast % in the clutch with 68%, but average 2.4 APG in clutch situations.

The Knicks have an ast% of 46.9%, but average 2.1 APG in clutch situations.

So what that says is that all teams ISO in the clutch.

No it does not.

There is no stat currently on NBA.com that shows play type in the clutch by team that I’ve found. What we do know is that IF they pass the ball instead of usual ISO shot, we make those shots leading to a higher assists total for the amount of passes we make.

Thibs did the same thing with Randle before Brunson came. Nonstop iso clutch. He even **** did it with Aaron Affalo.

Thibs wasn’t even our coach when afflalo was here lol

[The KnicksFix]

#325 » by 3toheadmelo » April 8th, 2025, 8:27 pm

Thibs out coaching mazulla. Thats my mf coach!

He in fact got outcoached again, multiple times over, an hour later in the second half and overtime
Not playing Mitch over hart
Not having a proper play drawn up to close out regulation, you make hart shoot, why is he even in the game?
Not fouling Tatum up 3
Not having a proper play drawn up down 3 to close the game in OT, (YOU GO TO MIKAL IN THE CORNER INSTEAD OF THE MIDDLE OF COURT TO SET UP A PLAY)

Thibs… sucks so goddamn much

What would you have drawn up? And who would be on the floor? What wpuld be the options?

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

You have to have guys on the floor that can shoot
Only three seconds were left on the clock
Deuce should have been on the floor over hart or even Shamet
Or you have Mitch in the game to set a pick for jb
The Knicks always run a sideline out curl play that frees up JB at the corner of the court,
The Celtics blew that up, so the second play should have been someone setting a pick to free up KAT and letting him go to the far side of the court on the inbound
If you look at that play, JB was doubled. The Celtics purposely let hart be open because they weren’t worried about him shooting

[HEZI]

Who throws a dangerous lob attempt with 3 seconds on the clock? Almost every out of bounds lob attempt in a late game situation will be with less than 1 second on the clock. The biggest benefit of a tie game in that situation is the ability to take the last shot or go to OT. Even if things miraculously played out the way you wanted it to the Knicks would have taken less than a second off the clock with the Celtics still having a chance to win the game in regulation with a scorching hot Tatum. The risk outweighed the reward substantially.

If Mikal throws that pass before even seeing the play develop you surely wouldn't be defending him when that play likely did not work. I'm not even sure if Thibs was looking for a lob in that situation. He may have been trying to create a switch or more confusion than actually occurred. How many lobs has KAT caught this year????

Dangerous lob attempt? Lmao it’s the basket we are scoring on there’s nothing dangerous it’s not the other basket. KAT was wide open. What play are you drawing up? I guarantee you it’s nothing that would have resulted in a better shot than the opportunity we had that we didn’t capitalize on.

Acting like KAT can’t catch a lob now, like he can’t make a layup

You have to throw a terrible pass for it to not go to KAT but this is Mikal we are talking about. The same airhead who fumbled a pass from KAT on the sideline and couldn’t catch a simple pass

So your plan was to throw a lob after you saw he was wide open even though KP could easily recover at that point or to just throw it before he was open because clearly he would come open???? And no i'm not calling a lob play against a 7'3 center for a center with limited lift that I never see catch lobs and just got hung on rim earlier in the game when he couldn't gauge the timing and distance of when to go up. Why would you call that play when you consider Mikal an "airhead"? I assume Thibs thinks he is one of the team's best inbounders since he is in that role quite often.

Mikal should have kept his eye on the ball when he fumbled it late in the overtime. I'm not sure what he would have done with it trapped in the corner with one the league's best defenders draped all over him but i'm sure Thibs had something great designed there.

What was KP going to do on his recovery? He was late, so he’s either fouling or it’s a layup or an and1. Dude was late on the recovery and Mikal never saw it or was too reluctant to throw it.

Who else is going to inbound the ball? It’s like no matter who you choose there’s a reason not to. You can’t have Brunson or KAT do it. OG is more effective as a threat on the floor as well so who does that leave? Either a dummy or a midget. Those are the options we have because of the roster.

[thebuzzardman]

Just a quick note on the foul up 3 thing. I want to be clear I support fouling up 3 before the anti Thibs brigade jumps down my throat... The positives outweigh the negatives. However, there is some logic to not fouling and letting the cards fall where they may on a Celtics scramble attempt off an inbounds.

A) The Knicks were awful last night shooting FT's. You foul the Celtics and assume they make both. Now you open yourself up to straight up losing the game if you miss your FT. Worst they can do without fouling is tie the game and allow you to get the last shot which is what happened. That's literally the worst case scenario.

B) You also open yourself up to a situation where they try to miss a FT on purpose (I still have nightmares of the Luka game where ironically Thibs did foul up 3 lol)

C) If you mistime the foul there is a slim chance you cause a shooting foul to tie the game anyway.

Yes fouling up 3 makes sense but acting as if it's some foolproof plan is disingenuous. We've seen it backfire plenty of times.

Thibs obviously haunted by this like he is the TMac game and now will never adjust

[dakomish23]

The Knicks have the 4th best win % in the clutch and average the second most assists per game in clutch situations though.

Denver has the highest ast % in the clutch with 68%, but average 2.4 APG in clutch situations.

The Knicks have an ast% of 46.9%, but average 2.1 APG in clutch situations.

So what that says is that all teams ISO in the clutch.

No it does not.

There is no stat currently on NBA.com that shows play type in the clutch by team that I’ve found. What we do know is that IF they pass the ball instead of usual ISO shot, we make those shots leading to a higher assists total for the amount of passes we make.

Thibs did the same thing with Randle before Brunson came. Nonstop iso clutch. He even **** did it with Aaron Affalo.

Thibs wasn’t even our coach when afflalo was here lol

Sorry not Affalo I meant Burks. Same player in my book