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Matas Progress Tracker

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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#881 » by GuardianEnzo » Thu Apr 10, 2025 10:16 am

Jstock12 wrote:
GuardianEnzo wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
Pretty hard to take anyone over Castle in a redraft (bragging - I had him #1 in this draft class), but Buzelis is a top pick level talent. And more importantly for us, and which Castle would not be, he’s almost what you would build in a lab to fit with Giddey and Coby.


Probably Castle-Sarr-Boozy if they re-drafted today.

Well, going strictly by on/off numbers, Clingan is actually the highest impact player and it's not close.


He's also averaging 11.6 points/36 and doesn't have as high a ceiling as those three.
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#882 » by Jstock12 » Thu Apr 10, 2025 11:22 am

GuardianEnzo wrote:
Jstock12 wrote:
GuardianEnzo wrote:
Probably Castle-Sarr-Boozy if they re-drafted today.

Well, going strictly by on/off numbers, Clingan is actually the highest impact player and it's not close.


He's also averaging 11.6 points/36 and doesn't have as high a ceiling as those three.

Well you're not drafting Clingan to be your volume scorer, that's for sure.
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#883 » by Ice Man » Thu Apr 10, 2025 11:32 am

Billy's done a fantastic job with Matas. Matas hasn't received any entitlement minutes. If he earns the right, he plays. Consequently, he's making good decisions out there. He knows that if he does not, Billy will find somebody else for his slot. And he's confident, because he knows that he has earned the right to be on the court.

That's a model for rookie development, unless you have a guy who is so NBA ready that he can start from Day 1.
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#884 » by DuckIII » Thu Apr 10, 2025 12:23 pm

Ice Man wrote:Billy's done a fantastic job with Matas. Matas hasn't received any entitlement minutes. If he earns the right, he plays. Consequently, he's making good decisions out there. He knows that if he does not, Billy will find somebody else for his slot. And he's confident, because he knows that he has earned the right to be on the court.

That's a model for rookie development, unless you have a guy who is so NBA ready that he can start from Day 1.


There are numerous examples of rookies being thrown in the fire, being permitted to fail, and succeeding tremendously. Including guys who are not LeBron James types who walk on the court and seamlessly play like a high quality starter.

I really dislike this notion that there is one way. It doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. There are so many factors at play. Talent and skill level, the individual player’s personality and what motivates them, the personalities of the other players on the team and the existing dynamic and hierarchy, the organization’s positioning and goals for the season, the coach’s personality and style, the list goes on.

Great coaches acknowledge regularly the need to understand what motivates individuals, how that varies, and knowing which levers to pull considering those factors.

Billy certainly nailed the formula with Matas (presumably, for all we know throwing him in the fire might have worked even better) so no complaints. But that doesn’t mean it’s the right approach for every player in every circumstance. That’s just not how humans are. Great coaches have been saying this for decades.
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#885 » by sco » Thu Apr 10, 2025 1:01 pm

DuckIII wrote:
Ice Man wrote:Billy's done a fantastic job with Matas. Matas hasn't received any entitlement minutes. If he earns the right, he plays. Consequently, he's making good decisions out there. He knows that if he does not, Billy will find somebody else for his slot. And he's confident, because he knows that he has earned the right to be on the court.

That's a model for rookie development, unless you have a guy who is so NBA ready that he can start from Day 1.


There are numerous examples of rookies being thrown in the fire, being permitted to fail, and succeeding tremendously. Including guys who are not LeBron James types who walk on the court and seamlessly play like a high quality starter.

I really dislike this notion that there is one way. It doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. There are so many factors at play. Talent and skill level, the individual player’s personality and what motivates them, the personalities of the other players on the team and the existing dynamic and hierarchy, the organization’s positioning and goals for the season, the coach’s personality and style, the list goes on.

Great coaches acknowledge regularly the need to understand what motivates individuals, how that varies, and knowing which levers to pull considering those factors.

Billy certainly nailed the formula with Matas (presumably, for all we know throwing him in the fire might have worked even better) so no complaints. But that doesn’t mean it’s the right approach for every player in every circumstance. That’s just not how humans are. Great coaches have been saying this for decades.

I can't argue with Billy's approach. I'm a big fan of making rookies earn their way into minutes. I've seen too many guys not develop their games after coming in and being handed the keys. If I have one complaint in his development it is keeping Vuc out there with him as much as he does. Matas should be getting 14-15 shots a game by now with more plays being run for him.
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#886 » by WindyCityBorn » Thu Apr 10, 2025 1:23 pm

Is Matas a 3 or 4? He has the height of a 4, but the skill set of a 3. Is he quick enough to defend elite 3s? If so I would put him there.
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#887 » by jnrjr79 » Thu Apr 10, 2025 1:34 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:Is Matas a 3 or 4? He has the height of a 4, but the skill set of a 3. Is he quick enough to defend elite 3s? If so I would put him there.


He'll presumably get stronger as he ages and perhaps look more 4-ish over time, but I think the real answer here is he can probably play either and where you slot him depends on the rest of your roster construction. His shot blocking is sure more like a 4, which is helpful for the current roster given Vooch's relative lack of rim protection.
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#888 » by Lexluthor » Thu Apr 10, 2025 1:46 pm

I wish he was more aggressive on offense
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#889 » by KissedByaRose1 » Thu Apr 10, 2025 2:13 pm

Lexluthor wrote:I wish he was more aggressive on offense


We're getting there i think. It's already exciting to see him dribble it up after he gets a rebound and the looks we get there. Next is a few more PnR for him a game.

That 3 he hit yesterday in front of the Heats bench to seal it was awesome. We finally have a guy worth getting really excited over.
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#890 » by MGB8 » Thu Apr 10, 2025 2:23 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:Is Matas a 3 or 4? He has the height of a 4, but the skill set of a 3. Is he quick enough to defend elite 3s? If so I would put him there.


It doesn’t really make a difference anymore, with the exception of certain specific teams / systems / matchups. Not that many teams play a 3 who the opponent has to chase around Kyle Korver or Rip Hamilton style. Switching onto a 2 who does that is a bigger issue, but not that many teams “switch everything.”

For the Bulls, Giddey is one 3/4 on D, and Matas the other. Pat and Phillips in reserve are also just what older generations would view as pure SFs. If lined up against a team with 2 bigs and the offensive advantage for Bulls doesn’t outweigh the defensive deficiency, then you have to make an adjustment - but that may create a defensive deficiency vs the opponents 1 or 2.
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#891 » by sco » Thu Apr 10, 2025 2:25 pm

MGB8 wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:Is Matas a 3 or 4? He has the height of a 4, but the skill set of a 3. Is he quick enough to defend elite 3s? If so I would put him there.



It doesn’t really make a difference anymore, with the exception of certain specific teams / systems / matchups. Not that many teams play a 3 who the opponent has to chase around Kyle Korver or Rip Hamilton style. Switching onto a 2 who does that is a bigger issue, but not that many teams “switch everything.”

I expect he'll remain at the 4 next season, as Giddey has effectively been playing the 3, and we'll role with Coby and one of Jones, Ball or Ayo at the other guard spot.
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#892 » by Ice Man » Thu Apr 10, 2025 2:27 pm

DuckIII wrote:There are numerous examples of rookies being thrown in the fire, being permitted to fail, and succeeding tremendously. Including guys who are not LeBron James types who walk on the court and seamlessly play like a high quality starter.

I really dislike this notion that there is one way. It doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.


Well, fair enough. But I've heard enough of the counterargument over the years -- start the rookie now, because he will never learn properly otherwise -- that I have become hypersensitive to the topic. Tony Snell & Pat Williams started a combined 82 games as rookies, while Scottie Pippen & Jimmy Butler started a combined 0. I just don't want to hear about how a coach is screwing up for not starting a rookies who are not obvious, immediate stars.

Now, if a coach sat on Wemby or (next year) Cooper Flagg, then sure I'd be all over him.
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#893 » by WindyCityBorn » Thu Apr 10, 2025 2:32 pm

Lexluthor wrote:I wish he was more aggressive on offense


It’s not his time yet. He’s doing great as his role slowly expands.
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#894 » by WindyCityBorn » Thu Apr 10, 2025 2:33 pm

KissedByaRose1 wrote:
Lexluthor wrote:I wish he was more aggressive on offense


We're getting there i think. It's already exciting to see him dribble it up after he gets a rebound and the looks we get there. Next is a few more PnR for him a game.

That 3 he hit yesterday in front of the Heats bench to seal it was awesome. We finally have a guy worth getting really excited over.


We have two guys to be really excited over. At 22 and 20 years old.
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#895 » by DuckIII » Thu Apr 10, 2025 2:33 pm

Ice Man wrote:
DuckIII wrote:There are numerous examples of rookies being thrown in the fire, being permitted to fail, and succeeding tremendously. Including guys who are not LeBron James types who walk on the court and seamlessly play like a high quality starter.

I really dislike this notion that there is one way. It doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.


Well, fair enough. But I've heard enough of the counterargument over the years -- start the rookie now, because he will never learn properly otherwise -- that I have become hypersensitive to the topic. Tony Snell & Pat Williams started a combined 82 games as rookies, while Scottie Pippen & Jimmy Butler started a combined 0. I just don't want to hear about how a coach is screwing up for not starting a rookies who are not obvious, immediate stars.

Now, if a coach sat on Wemby or (next year) Cooper Flagg, then sure I'd be all over him.


It also depends on the circumstances of the team. And yes, coaches can definitely screw up player development by not playing them or ruin their mindset with the yo-yo quick pull treatment. There are no absolutes. It’s up to the coach, who actually knows the players, to make the right choice. And even then, regardless of choice the player may fail or succeed anyway.

No such thing in player development as always and never.
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#896 » by GoBlue72391 » Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:46 am

Here's some splits that I don't think have been posted yet: in the 9 games where he's played 30+ minutes, he's averaging 18, 6, and 2 with a 63 TS%
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#897 » by DASMACKDOWN » Wed Apr 30, 2025 6:51 pm

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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#898 » by WindyCityBorn » Fri May 2, 2025 2:42 am

GoBlue72391 wrote:Here's some splits that I don't think have been posted yet: in the 9 games where he's played 30+ minutes, he's averaging 18, 6, and 2 with a 63 TS%


I think he can be 15/6 guy next season. Maybe better if we can get rid of Vuc.
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#899 » by Chi town » Fri May 2, 2025 2:51 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:Here's some splits that I don't think have been posted yet: in the 9 games where he's played 30+ minutes, he's averaging 18, 6, and 2 with a 63 TS%


I think he can be 15/6 guy next season. Maybe better if we can get rid of Vuc.


If Vuc is gone he will be the 3rd option and I think he will get big mins and a lot more shots. I could see him at 18ppg. Vuc stay prob more like 14.

Buz shoukd get more FTs next season as he gets more respect and learns how to draw fouls. Also think he will show more on ball next season and shoot more 3s off the dribble especially in transition and PNR.
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Re: Matas Progress Tracker 

Post#900 » by pipfan » Fri May 2, 2025 10:10 am

I still like him as a 3, and find a bigger guy for the 4.

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