All-NBA discussion

[Godymas]

One thing I want to say, team record shouldn't factor too much into the All NBA discussion. That doesn't mean that some dude on a lottery team should be ignored for being on a lottery team, but it should mean less.

If two guys are on a 45 win team and a 55 win team and the 45 win player is objectively having a better season, then I see no reason to stick that 55 win player over the 45 win player. With that said, team context also does matter. If a guy that has historically been better is now doing less because of the roster construction, then that needs to be taken into account.

So with that said, here's how the All NBA should go imo

1st team: SGA, Jokic, GIannis, Tatum, Anthony Edwards

2nd team: Steph Curry, LeBron James, Tyrese Haliburton, KAT, Donovan Mitchell

3rd team: Jalen Brunson, Evan Mobley, Cade Cunningham, Sengun, Jalen Williams

I almost went Sabonis for 3rd team, but honestly, Sengun has his team winning, and that's the kind of place where, two guys are similar caliber, but I put Sengun up because his team can actually have a defense with him

[kivancb]

Didn't see a topic on this anywhere, and spent some time figuring out my picks tonight so I thought it would be fun to open a thread. Anyway, here's what I got:

1st team: Stephen Curry, Shai Gilgeous Alexander, Jayson Tatum, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Nikola Jokic

2nd team: Donovan Mitchell, Anthony Edwards, Jalen Williams, Evan Mobley, Jaren Jackson Jr.

3rd team: Tyrese Haliburton, James Harden, Derrick White, Karl Anthony Towns, Ivica Zubac

Honorable mention: Darius Garland, Jalen Brunson, Amen Thompson, LeBron James, Domantas Sabonis

Considered the Cavs' guys strongly for first team, but ultimately couldn't pick either one of them to be as impactful and meaningful as Steph who's really turned it on for the most part lately. I know the 3rd team guys are going to be controversial, but Zubac seems like he's been every bit the defender Mobley and JJJ have while putting up similar numbers so I think he's earned his spot. White also has a case as one of the best defenders in the league, has surprisingly good numbers, and is the only Celtics' starter with a positive on/off. LeBron I just couldn't justify with how bad the Lakers have been with him on the court. Even Sabonis has a net rating that's 3.7 points higher.

Tatum is not 1st Team.

I'll bite. Why not?

Missing aura and all, get it?

[reamily]

So other jalen will get the nod and not the houston green.. sengun was second fiddle already to amen in intangability points post nba cup

[cupcakesnake]

1st Team: SGA, Mitchell, Tatum, Giannis, Jokic
2nd Team: Steph, Ant, Lebron, JJJ, Mobley
3rd Team: Haliburton, Brunson (Harden if Brunson doesn't qualify), Cade, KAT, Sengun

Haliburton is 7th in BPM and 5th in VORP. Jalen Williams is 19th in both, which is still better than Cade. In fact you could put Jalen Williams above Cade and I wouldn't be mad about it, being the best guy and leading his team to the playoffs is barely getting Cade on the list here. Sengun and Harden both better in impact stats than Williams as well. Zach Lowe had Haliburton second team by the way.

No problem with Hali making a team. He's been good and deserves it. He started the season rough and then got healthy and it was pretty smooth sailing for there.

Not sure I care about making BPM and VORP arguments against Jalen Williams when a lot of his case comes at the defensive side of the ball. Yes, he's been a nice consistent 2nd option for a top 3 offense (though his offense really cooled off after a nice start), but it's on the defensive side where he's been pretty mind blowing. Anchoring the defense as a center while all the bigs were injured, being a wing stopper, being their best wing helper. On a team of elite defenders, this guy has stood out as their DPOY.

Despite this, I wouldn't fight someone for still having Hali higher than him, because Hali is simply that good on offense, I just think J.Dub is the wrong guy to leave off to get Hali on. I also think Siakam has a real all-NBA case. He was more consistent than Hali on offense this year (though didn't peak as high) and has a larger defensive role. I wont be mad seeing either or both of them make a team.

[C3H6N6O6]

The Curry PR is so strong.

So many in media have started making the push for him for All-NBA first team. Edwards deserves it pretty easily. He has better numbers than Curry while being a better defender.

Both Curry and LeBron belong to All-NBA second team and should have no chance for first team. If you are rewarding team success then pick Donovan Mitchell otherwise pick Edwards.

[cupcakesnake]

So other jalen will get the nod and not the houston green.. sengun was second fiddle already to amen in intangability points post nba cup

I don't think Jalen Green should be in consideration at all. Negative efficiency volume scorer, and the worst defender on a team that won with defense all year. Green had some cool moments and his potential is still pretty nice, but he's not that good yet. Nowhere near all-NBA level. There's no statistical argument for him. He's the only starter with a big negative on/off. The team is 7.8 points per 100 better with him on the bench. That's crazy for a big minute starter on a winning team.

Sengun deserves serious consideration to make a team, and I think Amen should be on some ballots. There's a lot of deserving candidates this year (30 dudes for 15 spots) but Jalen Green is not one of them.

[IMF]

1st Team: SGA, Mitchell, Tatum, Giannis, Jokic
2nd Team: Steph, Ant, Lebron, JJJ, Mobley
3rd Team: Haliburton, Brunson (Harden if Brunson doesn't qualify), Cade, KAT, Sengun

Haliburton is 7th in BPM and 5th in VORP. Jalen Williams is 19th in both, which is still better than Cade. In fact you could put Jalen Williams above Cade and I wouldn't be mad about it, being the best guy and leading his team to the playoffs is barely getting Cade on the list here. Sengun and Harden both better in impact stats than Williams as well. Zach Lowe had Haliburton second team by the way.

No problem with Hali making a team. He's been good and deserves it. He started the season rough and then got healthy and it was pretty smooth sailing for there.

Not sure I care about making BPM and VORP arguments against Jalen Williams when a lot of his case comes at the defensive side of the ball. Yes, he's been a nice consistent 2nd option for a top 3 offense (though his offense really cooled off after a nice start), but it's on the defensive side where he's been pretty mind blowing. Anchoring the defense as a center while all the bigs were injured, being a wing stopper, being their best wing helper. On a team of elite defenders, this guy has stood out as their DPOY.

Despite this, I wouldn't fight someone for still having Hali higher than him, because Hali is simply that good on offense, I just think J.Dub is the wrong guy to leave off to get Hali on. I also think Siakam has a real all-NBA case. He was more consistent than Hali on offense this year (though didn't peak as high) and has a larger defensive role. I wont be mad seeing either or both of them make a team.

To me the three guys on the bubble for the last spot are Cade/Harden/JWill. I do think Sengun fully deserves his spot and Hali is closer to on the bubble of second team. You might be right that I'm underrating Williams, Even though he's kind of ascending and has a great narrative Cade might be the guy to leave off in that case.

[cupcakesnake]

1st Team: SGA, Mitchell, Tatum, Giannis, Jokic
2nd Team: Steph, Ant, Lebron, JJJ, Mobley
3rd Team: Haliburton, Brunson (Harden if Brunson doesn't qualify), Cade, KAT, Sengun

Haliburton is 7th in BPM and 5th in VORP. Jalen Williams is 19th in both, which is still better than Cade. In fact you could put Jalen Williams above Cade and I wouldn't be mad about it, being the best guy and leading his team to the playoffs is barely getting Cade on the list here. Sengun and Harden both better in impact stats than Williams as well. Zach Lowe had Haliburton second team by the way.

No problem with Hali making a team. He's been good and deserves it. He started the season rough and then got healthy and it was pretty smooth sailing for there.

Not sure I care about making BPM and VORP arguments against Jalen Williams when a lot of his case comes at the defensive side of the ball. Yes, he's been a nice consistent 2nd option for a top 3 offense (though his offense really cooled off after a nice start), but it's on the defensive side where he's been pretty mind blowing. Anchoring the defense as a center while all the bigs were injured, being a wing stopper, being their best wing helper. On a team of elite defenders, this guy has stood out as their DPOY.

Despite this, I wouldn't fight someone for still having Hali higher than him, because Hali is simply that good on offense, I just think J.Dub is the wrong guy to leave off to get Hali on. I also think Siakam has a real all-NBA case. He was more consistent than Hali on offense this year (though didn't peak as high) and has a larger defensive role. I wont be mad seeing either or both of them make a team.

To me the three guys on the bubble for the last spot are Cade/Harden/JWill. I do think Sengun fully deserves his spot and Hali is closer to on the bubble of second team. You might be right that I'm underrating Williams, Even though he's kind of ascending and has a great narrative Cade might be the guy to leave off in that case.

It's tough because Cade has the narrative and the big time counting stats. The Pistons being a playoff team is a big deal, and people want to credit someone for that, and Cade is the obvious pick on a roster that doesn't scream high end talent. Under the hood, Cade's numbers aren't all that amazing. Negative efficiency scorer and turnover monster, who uses a ton of possessions to put up those numbers. I don't want to hate on Cade either though. If he made an All-NBA team, I'd be fine with it because it tells the story of the season.

I have Sengun lower than you do. While he improved on defense and really did his job as a hub, the scoring was pretty ugly. In general, if I'm giving a guy an all-NBA spot for his offensive performance, I'd like to see him be an actual positive efficiency scorer. This was Sengun's least efficient season by far, and I think he's inspired a bit of doubt about his scoring game. Maybe he bounces back next year, but it's a bit worrisome to see a post scorer post such weak efficiency numbers. It would be nice to get a Rockets player on an all-NBA team, but I don't think they have a clear cut guy who should be in over other guys. I still have Sengun as almost a top 20 player this year, amongst qualified all-NBA candidates. I have Siakam and Hali comfortable over Sengun. Both have better scoring efficiency. Haliburton is a way better creator. Siakam is a similar level playmaker and probably the superior defender?

[bisme37]

I'm fully ready for my superteam Celtics to get only 1 All NBA player this year, and then I'll get to read comments about how that All NBA player only looks good because he's on a superteam.

[NZB2323]

1st team: Mitchell, SGA, Tatum, Giannis, Jokic

2nd team: Curry, Ant, Lebron, JJJ, Mobley

3rd team: Haliburton, Brunson, Cade, Harden, KAT

Outside of SGA/Tatum/Giannis/Jokic for 1st team, none of my other positions are locks that I’m willing to die on a hill for.

[ChumboChappati]

Didn't see a topic on this anywhere, and spent some time figuring out my picks tonight so I thought it would be fun to open a thread. Anyway, here's what I got:

1st team: Stephen Curry, Shai Gilgeous Alexander, Jayson Tatum, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Nikola Jokic

2nd team: Donovan Mitchell, Anthony Edwards, Jalen Williams, Evan Mobley, Jaren Jackson Jr.

3rd team: Tyrese Haliburton, James Harden, Derrick White, Karl Anthony Towns, Ivica Zubac

Honorable mention: Darius Garland, Jalen Brunson, Amen Thompson, LeBron James, Domantas Sabonis

Considered the Cavs' guys strongly for first team, but ultimately couldn't pick either one of them to be as impactful and meaningful as Steph who's really turned it on for the most part lately. I know the 3rd team guys are going to be controversial, but Zubac seems like he's been every bit the defender Mobley and JJJ have while putting up similar numbers so I think he's earned his spot. White also has a case as one of the best defenders in the league, has surprisingly good numbers, and is the only Celtics' starter with a positive on/off. LeBron I just couldn't justify with how bad the Lakers have been with him on the court. Even Sabonis has a net rating that's 3.7 points higher.

Tatum is not 1st Team.

I'll bite. Why not?

Not good enough. 1st team should be for players with stats and carry their team, like MVPs of their team, and increase the league's prestige.

[NZB2323]

I'm fully ready for my superteam Celtics to get only 1 All NBA player this year, and then I'll get to read comments about how that All NBA player only looks good because he's on superteam.

If it makes you feel any better, the team who is going to win the most games this year will likely only get 1 all-NBA player and then people are going to say that player shouldn’t win MVP because he’s got a great supporting cast.

I’ll also say that this year Tatum has been better and his supporting cast hasn’t been as good.

[NZB2323]

Tatum is not 1st Team.

I'll bite. Why not?

Not good enough. 1st team should be for players with stats and carry their team, like MVPs of their team, and increase the league's prestige.

Oh, like a player who averages 27, 9, and 6 while playing great defense?

[NBA4Lyfe]

Didn't see a topic on this anywhere, and spent some time figuring out my picks tonight so I thought it would be fun to open a thread. Anyway, here's what I got:

1st team: Stephen Curry, Shai Gilgeous Alexander, Jayson Tatum, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Nikola Jokic

2nd team: Donovan Mitchell, Anthony Edwards, Jalen Williams, Evan Mobley, Jaren Jackson Jr.

3rd team: Tyrese Haliburton, James Harden, Derrick White, Karl Anthony Towns, Ivica Zubac

Honorable mention: Darius Garland, Jalen Brunson, Amen Thompson, LeBron James, Domantas Sabonis

Considered the Cavs' guys strongly for first team, but ultimately couldn't pick either one of them to be as impactful and meaningful as Steph who's really turned it on for the most part lately. I know the 3rd team guys are going to be controversial, but Zubac seems like he's been every bit the defender Mobley and JJJ have while putting up similar numbers so I think he's earned his spot. White also has a case as one of the best defenders in the league, has surprisingly good numbers, and is the only Celtics' starter with a positive on/off. LeBron I just couldn't justify with how bad the Lakers have been with him on the court. Even Sabonis has a net rating that's 3.7 points higher.

harden should be above steph curry just off the preseason win/loss expectations alone

[HMFFL]

James Harden has been on a nice run as of late and now has his shooting % at 40%. A player that shoots this poorly shouldn't be All NBA.

Sent from my SM-S928U1 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[cupcakesnake]

I'm fully ready for my superteam Celtics to get only 1 All NBA player this year, and then I'll get to read comments about how that All NBA player only looks good because he's on superteam.

With how the Celtics set up their roles on the team, only Tatum and Brown have a great chance to make all-NBA teams. The Celtics are certainly stacked with all-star calibre players. Everyone who knows anything about NBA basketball knows that Al Horford is God, and Jrue is Jesus, but we also understand why those guys aren't getting all-NBA votes at their age and with the roles they play.

Only 2 Celtics take at least 15 shots per game, which means there's not a lot of chance to get all-NBA shine as a scorer. Defensively, there's too much credit to divide up as well. After the Jays, the other Celtics stars play more limited roles, and none of them get solo credit for anchoring a defense (so no room for a Draymond style all-NBA appearance).

Jaylen Brown had a worse season as a scorer and defender, but a better season as a distributor. The man is our finals MVP, but I don't think he had one of the 20 best seasons in the NBA this year. I suspect he'll pick votes. I pray at the altar of Derrick White every day (whenever I can afford a break from my Horford shrine) but even I just have him on the cusp. Hard to get him over some guards putting up bigger numbers.

At the end of the day, Tatum is going to be likely unanimous 1st team. I don't personally like the case for Jaylen or White in this specific season. In any given season, I think Jaylen, White, or a healthier Porzingis are capable of making all-NBA noise.

[NZB2323]

James Harden has been on a nice run as of late and now has his shooting % at 40%. A player that shoots this poorly shouldn't be All NBA.

Sent from my SM-S928U1 using RealGM Forums mobile app

57.8 TS% is better than Cade.

I think one of the best arguments for Harden is 77 games played. During an 82 game season, while Kawhi has only played 35 games, Harden has been there helping the Clippers every game.

[BodieB]

Tatum is not 1st Team.

I'll bite. Why not?

Not good enough. 1st team should be for players with stats and carry their team, like MVPs of their team, and increase the league's prestige.

Oh ok, confirmed troll/bait post.

[bisme37]

I'll bite. Why not?

Not good enough. 1st team should be for players with stats and carry their team, like MVPs of their team, and increase the league's prestige.

Oh ok, confirmed troll/bait post.

It sucks because I'm a mod and I'm supposed to not allow trolling, but as a Celtics fan I try to avoid modding Celtics trolls on the GB to avoid appearance of conflict of interest. But the other GB mods aren't Celtics fans, so it stands to reason that they aren't noticing the Celtics trolling like I am, and lot of it ends up falling through the cracks. Feel free to report violations and bring them to the attention of the mod team.

This goes for everyone and every fanbase of course. Trolling is annoying.

[islandkid12]

I'm fully ready for my superteam Celtics to get only 1 All NBA player this year, and then I'll get to read comments about how that All NBA player only looks good because he's on superteam.

Jaylen Brown had a worse season as a scorer and defender, but a better season as a distributor. The man is our finals MVP, but I don't think he had one of the 20 best seasons in the NBA this year. I suspect he'll pick votes. I pray at the altar of Derrick White every day (whenever I can afford a break from my Horford shrine) but even I just have him on the cusp. Hard to get him over some guards putting up bigger numbers.

At the end of the day, Tatum is going to be likely unanimous 1st team. I don't personally like the case for Jaylen or White in this specific season. In any given season, I think Jaylen, White, or a healthier Porzingis are capable of making all-NBA noise.

I was reading about the bolded somewhere yesterday and it was essentially on how Tatum not winning FMVP last year is used as a knock against him as a player and ranking in the league and in the same breath Jaylen Brow is not viewed any higher at all as far as his ranking in the league. Pretty much a lose-lose a situation - and the FMVP hasn't positively impacted a player since Jokic. Can't help but agree with it