ESPN Net Points Vest and Dunce Thread

[basketballRob]

When they play AB off the ball, he looks worse.

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[basketballRob]

AB gets a B-, he was purposefully pushed into the deep end and the deep end was unintentionally much deeper than anticipated. He's been an extremely high impact player for us and I don't mind the net overall impact being negative given he's a second year pro.

Gotta say I agree. If AB gets a B- then Houstan gets at least a B-.

AB has had all the chances I would like to see and he just hasn't been able to capitalize before he had a decent scoring run from the bench. Followed by the barrage of 3-balls from Houstan. But Houstan hasn't in my immediate memory had the same chances amount as Black this season. Hence, Houstan earning his spot.

Houstan couldn't defend before this season. He still isn't a great defender. He gets away with a lot of fouls.

Since Cole came back, it bumped AB off the ball. When Cole was out, AB and Joseph split the 48 minutes each game and were putting up great stats.

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[JoshuaPotter]

Gotta say I agree. If AB gets a B- then Houstan gets at least a B-.

AB has had all the chances I would like to see and he just hasn't been able to capitalize before he had a decent scoring run from the bench. Followed by the barrage of 3-balls from Houstan. But Houstan hasn't in my immediate memory had the same chances amount as Black this season. Hence, Houstan earning his spot.

Houstan couldn't defend before this season. He still isn't a great defender. He gets away with a lot of fouls.

Since Cole came back, it bumped AB off the ball. When Cole was out, AB and Joseph split the 48 minutes each game and were putting up great stats.

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In fairness, I listen to the games, I do not watch. But please, more words, not less. For those of us that don't.

[eyriq]

Positive vest to dunce ratios should correlate with a good grade

Franz +31
Goga +17
Moritz +10
Carter +10
Isaac +7
Suggs +1

Franz gets an A+, most losses can be better explained by poor play from other positions and he's consistently been one of our best players all year.

Goga gets an A-, it's clear that he's our best big but the fit seems iffy if you look at how coach is managing the game.

Moritz gets a C+, digned for availability issues

Carter gets a B- for being suck

Isaac gets a who cares, just get off my team

Suggs gets a F

[CLosP]

Positive vest to dunce radios should correlate with a good grade

Franz +31
Goga +17
Moritz +10
Carter +10
Isaac +7
Suggs +1

Franz gets an A+, most losses can be better explained by poor play from other positions and he's consistently been one of our best players all year.

Goga gets an A-, it's clear that he's our best big but the fit seems iffy if you look at how coach is managing the game.

Moritz gets a C+, digned for availability issues

Carter gets a B- for being suck

Isaac gets a who cares, just get off my team

Suggs gets a F

So a guy who gets a -16 gets a B- but a +1 is a F. Makes sense…

Also, don’t think anyone is deserving of an A on this team let alone an A+ lol.

[eyriq]

Positive vest to dunce radios should correlate with a good grade

Franz +31
Goga +17
Moritz +10
Carter +10
Isaac +7
Suggs +1

Franz gets an A+, most losses can be better explained by poor play from other positions and he's consistently been one of our best players all year.

Goga gets an A-, it's clear that he's our best big but the fit seems iffy if you look at how coach is managing the game.

Moritz gets a C+, digned for availability issues

Carter gets a B- for being suck

Isaac gets a who cares, just get off my team

Suggs gets a F

So a guy who gets a -16 gets a B- but a +1 is a F. Makes sense…

Also, don’t think anyone is deserving of an A on this team let alone an A+ lol.

AB is right where Suggs was his second year and Suggs is probably cooked, physically speaking. So yeah.

Franz leveled up and showed true first option ability. Amazing stuff really.

WCJ and JI are infuriating, right alongside Cole, Harris, and Jett.

Moving off those six players would be a welcome development.

In summary, Suggs, WCJ, JI, Cole, Harris, and Jett should be moved.

[Knightro]

Positive vest to dunce ratios should correlate with a good grade

Franz +31
Goga +17
Moritz +10
Carter +10
Isaac +7
Suggs +1

Franz gets an A+, most losses can be better explained by poor play from other positions and he's consistently been one of our best players all year.

Goga gets an A-, it's clear that he's our best big but the fit seems iffy if you look at how coach is managing the game.

Moritz gets a C+, digned for availability issues

Carter gets a B- for being suck

Isaac gets a who cares, just get off my team

Suggs gets a F

Fraudster.

[eyriq]

Positive vest to dunce ratios should correlate with a good grade

Franz +31
Goga +17
Moritz +10
Carter +10
Isaac +7
Suggs +1

Franz gets an A+, most losses can be better explained by poor play from other positions and he's consistently been one of our best players all year.

Goga gets an A-, it's clear that he's our best big but the fit seems iffy if you look at how coach is managing the game.

Moritz gets a C+, digned for availability issues

Carter gets a B- for being suck

Isaac gets a who cares, just get off my team

Suggs gets a F

Fraudster.

[Knightro]

WIN NO. 41 AT INDIANA

3 - Queen
2 - Goga
1 - Houstan

VESTS VIA NET POINTS
Franz 8
Paolo 6
KCP 6
Goga 5
Black 5
Carter 5
Isaac 2
Moritz 2
TDS 1
Cole 1
Queen 1

CUMMERBUNDS VIA NET POINTS
Franz 10
Moritz 4
KCP 4
Paolo 4
Carter 3
Goga 3
TDS 2
Isaac 2
Suggs 2
Black 2
Cole 2
Harris 1
Houstan 1

MITTENS VIA NET POINTS
Goga 5
Isaac 4
Carter 4
Franz 4
Suggs 3
Moritz 3
Paolo 3
TDS 2
Queen 2
Black 2
Harris 2
KCP 2
Houstan 2
Jett 1
Joseph 1
Cole 1

Season Standings Via Net Points (3-2-1 scale)
Franz - 48
Paolo - 29
KCP - 27
Goga - 26
Carter - 25
Black - 21
Moritz - 17
Isaac - 14
TDS - 9
Cole - 8
Suggs - 7
Queen - 5
Harris - 4
Houstan - 4
Jett - 1
Joseph - 1

Vest to Dunce Net Ratio
Franz +31
Goga +19
Moritz +10
Carter +10
Isaac +7
Suggs +1
Joseph -2
Paolo -3
Queen -3
Houstan -3
Jett -6
KCP -7
Harris -7
Da Silva -13
Black -16
Cole -18

[Knightro]

Last one of these for the regular season...

Loss No. 41 at Atlanta

-3 Jett
-2 Carter
-1 Houstan

Dunce Caps
Paolo: 9
Cole: 7
KCP: 6
Black: 6
Da Silva: 3
Suggs: 2
Franz: 2
Jett: 2
Queen: 1
Harris: 1
Carter: 1
Moritz: 1

Dunce Cummerbunds
Franz: 5
Da Silva: 5
KCP: 5
Black: 5
Carter: 5
Isaac: 3
Goga: 2
Moritz: 2
Cole: 2
Houstan: 2
Queen: 2
Harris: 2
CoJo: 1

Dunce Mittens
Black: 9
Jett: 4
Harris: 4
KCP: 4
Da Silva: 3
Carter: 3
Goga: 3
Houstan: 3
Paolo: 2
Franz: 1
Queen: 1
Cole: 1
Suggs: 1
Isaac: 1
CoJo: 1

Vest to Dunce Net Ratio
Franz +31
Goga +19
Moritz +10
Carter +8
Isaac +7
Suggs +1
Joseph -2
Paolo -3
Queen -3
Houstan -4
KCP -7
Harris -7
Jett -9
Da Silva -13
Black -16
Cole -18

[JoshuaPotter]

To me the translation here is that our guards really really suck.

[eyriq]

To me the translation here is that our guards really really suck.

Fair assessment lol

[JoshuaPotter]

To me the translation here is that our guards really really suck.

Fair assessment lol

This time last year, I would have said that this is a feature and not a bug of our offense and that it should course correct. It didn't. In fact, somehow it feels like it got worse and this was with "I shoot no 3s" Fultz.

On a last note, Black towards the end of the season showed a more freed offensive version of himself, but he put himself first as a scorer it seems and he also tends to dissappear rather then set a table. Again, is this the offense Mose runs? I do not know. All I know is we put a modest PG by the name of Corey Joseph into the lineup and everyone settles into a role and we start winning again.

As far as the "we don't beat teams over .500". I have some thoughts there, but its not meant for this thread. I will see if I can find another thread.

[eyriq]

To me the translation here is that our guards really really suck.

Fair assessment lol

This time last year, I would have said that this is a feature and not a bug of our offense and that it should course correct. It didn't. In fact, somehow it feels like it got worse and this was with "I shoot no 3s" Fultz.

On a last note, Black towards the end of the season showed a more freed offensive version of himself, but he put himself first as a scorer it seems and he also tends to dissappear rather then set a table. Again, is this the offense Mose runs? I do not know. All I know is we put a modest PG by the name of Corey Joseph into the lineup and everyone settles into a role and we start winning again.

As far as the "we don't beat teams over .500". I have some thoughts there, but its not meant for this thread. I will see if I can find another thread.

Franz and Paolo got healthy, Mosley staggered them, and they continued to play in roles where they are the primary playmakers. CoJo starting is a footnote, not a key driver imo.

[JoshuaPotter]

Fair assessment lol

This time last year, I would have said that this is a feature and not a bug of our offense and that it should course correct. It didn't. In fact, somehow it feels like it got worse and this was with "I shoot no 3s" Fultz.

On a last note, Black towards the end of the season showed a more freed offensive version of himself, but he put himself first as a scorer it seems and he also tends to dissappear rather then set a table. Again, is this the offense Mose runs? I do not know. All I know is we put a modest PG by the name of Corey Joseph into the lineup and everyone settles into a role and we start winning again.

As far as the "we don't beat teams over .500". I have some thoughts there, but its not meant for this thread. I will see if I can find another thread.

Franz and Paolo got healthy, Mosley staggered them, and they continued to play in roles where they are the primary playmakers. CoJo starting is a footnote, not a key driver imo.

CoJo brought consistent 3 point shooting to a starting lineup that was desperate to spread the floor. He also can set the table just enough to get people a couple buckets in rhythm.

I expect CoJo to be eaten alive in the playoffs but he will likely still start. Unless the goal is to start AB or Cole. Neither of which I think I am a fan of.

[Idiosyncratic]

FWIW Net Points seems to be pretty harsh on guards or guard defense to an extent. Like our guards rate poorly in it, but Simons, Sexton and White rank even worse. Or maybe those guys defense really is that bad, they are always somehow on bad teams lol.

[eyriq]

FWIW Net Points seems to be pretty harsh on guards or guard defense to an extent. Like our guards rate poorly in it, but Simons, Sexton and White rank even worse. Or maybe those guys defense really is that bad, they are always somehow on bad teams lol.

It either is biased against guards OR size/athleticism is so heavily correlated with defensive impact that position is confounded beyond repair.

[Idiosyncratic]

FWIW Net Points seems to be pretty harsh on guards or guard defense to an extent. Like our guards rate poorly in it, but Simons, Sexton and White rank even worse. Or maybe those guys defense really is that bad, they are always somehow on bad teams lol.

It either is biased against guards OR size/athleticism is so heavily correlated with defensive impact that position is confounded beyond repair.

Yeah and want to be clear with my post, I mean Sexton, Simons and White rank worse even when accounting for offense added in, not just worse on defense.

I think there is a flaw because those guys aren't that bad. They played more than a lot of guards on the list and got more time to accumulate very negative defense.

But I do think as a tool it should make you pause and ask yourself how good an offense only small guard really needs to be at scoring to add clear cut positive value. We can say we don't want a defense only team blah blah whatever, but GMs are always thinking about who can stay on the floor in the playoffs when they make moves. And then there are guys like a Jalen Brunson you know sucks on defense, but you also know without a doubt he is good enough on offense to more than offset that.

I still would be open to potentially adding a guy like that for the right price, I do think the defense can tick up in the right system, but it is interesting to think about.

[eyriq]

Goga +19, #2 on the team, and can't break the rotation.