DEN/MIA/ORL

[Skybox]

Assumptions:
-DEN is in financial purgatory but still very good as long as Jokic is around...they're not entertaining a teardown and they're not moving Jokic
-DEN ownership is cheap and wants to avoid the 2nd apron while still being a contender
-Malone was fired because of his reluctance to lean on younger developing players...like his "uncle" Stan
-MIA lost a lot of offense with Jimmy, but perimeter scoring is the present and future

DEN sends: Michael Porter, Julian Strawther and Jamal Murray
DEN gets: Jalen Suggs, Andrew Wiggins, Jonathan Isaac and Kyle Anderson (expiring)
Why: Murray's contract explodes upward while Suggs' drops each year. Wiggins may be less reliable offensively than MPJ but his defense/offense package is very strong. If healthy, Isaac, at $15m, is an elite defensive big and a beautiful complement to Jokic. Even in limited minutes, his contribution can change games. If he's not healthy, his contract is not guaranteed, and that may really be DEN ownership/FO's interest and comfort. Kyle Anderson is a heady vet playmaker with only one remaining year guaranteed. All of these players will contribute immediately while cutting payroll long-term.

MIA sends: Andrew Wiggins and Kyle Anderson, MIA 25 frp (#11?)
MIA gets: Michael Porter, ORL 25 frp & DEN 25 frp (#16 & 22?)
Why: Porter is a very complementary big next to Bam and, potentially forms a powerful young trio with Herro. MIA gets younger and leans into Ware, JJJ, Jovic and two decent frps this summer to retool on the fly. MIA has a history of finding gems later in a flat first round, so two shots appeals. MPJ and Herro spread the floor and rain 3's, so Bam can work inside and run the offense through the post. MPJ's injury risk is there, but he's young and has far more offensive upside than recently acquired Wiggins. Rozier and Duncan Robinson become large expiring trade chips this summer - so MIA might even package a pick with either or both to pillage some tanking team looking for draft equity...or even try to grab Durant to have a giant forward tandem that can score from anywhere.

ORL sends: Jalen Suggs, Jonathan Isaac, ORL 25 frp & DEN 25 frp (#16 & 22?)
ORL gets: Jalen Murray, Julian Strawther, MIA 25 frp (#11?)
Why: Murray's injury history and huge contract is certainly worrisome (physicals will definitely matter) but he also has a history of dueling toe to toe with studs like Donovan Mitchell in huge playoff games. He's as good a scoring threat from the backcourt as you'll find and he's definitely got that dawg in him in big moments. He can play on or off ball, so I think he's just the kind of backcourt star that will only enhance Paolo and Franz' game. ORL selects Maluach if he drops to #11 or, perhaps Collin Murray-Boyles, who can defend all over the floor like a young, inexpensive (if smaller) Isaac. His skillset likely contributes as a rookie and maybe he develops more of an offensive game over the years as well. CMB and TdS make for a very versatile rotation duo to deploy at different spots for different matchups.

[Godaddycurse]

this leaves denver with no credible 2nd (or even 3rd) option

[ReggiesKnicks]

Who is Jalen Murray?

[psman2]

I just don't see putting even more of the offensive load on Jokic a viable way forward here. No big problem with the value here but Wiggins and Suggs cannot be a 2/3 best offensive options on a team hoping to win another chip.

[giberish]

For Denver I feel like I'd have to do the Suggs part for the value win. I might do the other half as well but I'd really need to turn Isaac, Anderson or something with assets I don't have into a shameless gunner (Monk?) to complement the lineup.

[BelgradeNugget]

Here is a trade I would think hard about (not sure I would do it)

DEN sends: Jamal Murray and Zake Nnaji
DEN gets: Jalen Suggs, Jonathan Isaac and Goga Bitadze

[Skybox]

I think Wiggins served his time in GSW and has grown up a bit...He has been and might be ready to re-emerge as a 20+ ppg guy who can score inside and out while defending at a high level. He's still young enough to play his best ball - which would be a hybrid from his MIN scoring days and his GSW role-playing days. Suggs scored 16 ppg last season and shot 40% from 3 on high-volume while becoming one of the best, most disruptive defenders in the NBA - all without any kind of other credible threat in the backcourt to draw defenders away. Having Jokic and some new found financial flexibility could definitely draw more ring-chasing vets to DEN.

My biggest fear (after the huge financial commitment and injury history) for ORL is that Murray's prowess on the offensive end has a lot to do with Jokic's HOF-level playmaking and BBIQ. I'd say that DEN is taking the least risk here if their GM is up for some aggressive shuffling. Jokic makes people look a lot better than they may have elsewhere and it's not like Suggs & Wiggins haven't put up points in lesser scenarios.

[Mrakar]

Denver only offensive flaw is shooting and now you are sending 3 Denvers best shooters out and take 2 average and 2 awful shooters back? value is probably not far off but fit is beyond questionable.
Suggs/Braun/Wiggins/Gordon/Jokic? Jokic would get quadrupple-teamed every posession.

[Skybox]

Here is a trade I would think hard about (not sure I would do it)

DEN sends: Jamal Murray and Zake Nnaji
DEN gets: Jalen Suggs, Jonathan Isaac and Goga Bitadze

Can't dump Nnaji's 3 more years of empty jersey...ORL is also facing $$$ pressures and taking on Murray was already a massive incoming risky move.

That's why I pulled Strawther in for salary matching - I assume Braun is more important to DEN. Goga is a possibility, but he's not a negative like Nnaji. Another poster suggesting Strawther is one of DEN's best shooters? If that's the case, they'd have more work to do, regardless of this trade. Jokic should draw vet min ring-chasers or at least vet snipers looking to rebuild their salary demands with Jokic's gravity.

[BelgradeNugget]

Here is a trade I would think hard about (not sure I would do it)

DEN sends: Jamal Murray and Zake Nnaji
DEN gets: Jalen Suggs, Jonathan Isaac and Goga Bitadze

Can't dump Nnaji's 3 more years of empty jersey...ORL is also facing $$$ pressures and taking on Murray was already a massive incoming risky move.

That's why I pulled Strawther in for salary matching - I assume Braun is more important to DEN. Goga is a possibility, but he's not a negative like Nnaji. Another poster suggesting Strawther is one of DEN's best shooters? If that's the case, they'd have more work to do, regardless of this trade. Jokic should draw vet min ring-chasers or at least vet snipers looking to rebuild their salary demands with Jokic's gravity.

We all love our players but the fact with Orlando players is this:

1 Jonathan Isaac was one of the most talented defenders in the league, but after all his injuries he was 11th in minutes for Orlando this season. So now his production for 15 mil he is making is as Nnaji's production for 8 mil. Nothing. I loved what he was. What is he now? Taking him would be great gamble for Denver.
2 Goga is solid
3 Jalen Suggs is talented young player and great defender that can't stay healthy and had 1 season out of 4 in the nba shooting better than 41.9% from the field and 32.7% from 3. Big gamble also
4 Murray with his injury history is also gambe but his playoff averages are still 24.2/4.9/6.2 with 45.9%/38.9%/91.1% in 65 games. 2nd option on champion.

[orlando_joe]

magic do not touch that contract ...such a easy pass

[orlando_joe]

Here is a trade I would think hard about (not sure I would do it)

DEN sends: Jamal Murray and Zake Nnaji
DEN gets: Jalen Suggs, Jonathan Isaac and Goga Bitadze

this is so bad for magic...like real bad...

[BelgradeNugget]

Here is a trade I would think hard about (not sure I would do it)

DEN sends: Jamal Murray and Zake Nnaji
DEN gets: Jalen Suggs, Jonathan Isaac and Goga Bitadze

this is so bad for magic...like real bad...

Looks like you are valuing your players by what they were or could be, not by what they are. But ok, no trade

[orlando_joe]

Here is a trade I would think hard about (not sure I would do it)

DEN sends: Jamal Murray and Zake Nnaji
DEN gets: Jalen Suggs, Jonathan Isaac and Goga Bitadze

this is so bad for magic...like real bad...

Looks like you are valuing your players by what they were or could be, not by what they are. But ok, no trade

well murry has played less games then suggs over last 4 seasons...yet you say suggs more injury prone...lol
murry will make 60 mill a yr for a couple yrs over age 30 when injury prone ...
suggs has 2 yrs under 27 mill a yr and 1 more yr under 30 mill..locked up for whole prime age 24 to 29

most of all magic just can not take on that contract without every other play minus franz and paolo being a min salary contract and still be in tax

[BelgradeNugget]

this is so bad for magic...like real bad...

Looks like you are valuing your players by what they were or could be, not by what they are. But ok, no trade

well murry has played less games then suggs over last 4 seasons...yet you say suggs more injury prone...lol
murry will make 60 mill a yr for a couple yrs over age 30 when injury prone ...
suggs has 2 yrs under 27 mill a yr and 1 more yr under 30 mill..locked up for whole prime age 24 to 29

most of all magic just can not take on that contract without every other play minus franz and paolo being a min salary contract and still be in tax

Ha, ha, Murray missed the whole 21-22 season due to torn ACL, other than that season of course he is less injury prone than Suggs. In 3 seasons of 4 in the NBA Suggs played 48/53/35 games. It is Joel Embiid level.

Anyway whan you look for player who will help you win you don't look for money, you look for production. If Murray is not that guy than there is no diference in 50 or 40 mil. If he is, he is worth playing

But this trade is too much of a risk for Nuggets. OP made trade idea to get Murray to Orlando. I made counter offer to make it fair. Not good for Orlando? Ok no deal. I didn't say I would make a deal I proposed so I think for Orlando it is better to look for other options, nuggets are Ok with what they have.

[tiderulz]

Looks like you are valuing your players by what they were or could be, not by what they are. But ok, no trade

well murry has played less games then suggs over last 4 seasons...yet you say suggs more injury prone...lol
murry will make 60 mill a yr for a couple yrs over age 30 when injury prone ...
suggs has 2 yrs under 27 mill a yr and 1 more yr under 30 mill..locked up for whole prime age 24 to 29

most of all magic just can not take on that contract without every other play minus franz and paolo being a min salary contract and still be in tax

Ha, ha, Murray missed the whole 21-22 season due to torn ACL, other than that season of course he is less injury prone than Suggs. In 3 seasons of 4 in the NBA Suggs played 48/53/35 games. It is Joel Embiid level.

Anyway whan you look for player who will help you win you don't look for money, you look for production. If Murray is not that guy than there is no diference in 50 or 40 mil. If he is, he is worth playing

But this trade is too much of a risk for Nuggets. OP made trade idea to get Murray to Orlando. I made counter offer to make it fair. Not good for Orlando? Ok no deal. I didn't say I would make a deal I proposed so I think for Orlando it is better to look for other options, nuggets are Ok with what they have.

in a very, very rare occasion, i agree with Orlando Joe. 1st, i dont believe Murray is a $55mil/yr player. Not sure how much of a bonus he gets playing with Jokic that he would not get in Orlando. His injury history is a concern, but injury history doesnt seem to bother Orlando too much.

[BBallFreak]

I don't like this for Miami. Why are we giving up our pick? We already have two picks in this draft. Do we really need a third?

[Alatan]

If i was Denvers GM id grab this deal and run for the hills. You are solving every problem Denver has at the cost of what, some spacing? Denvers defense would transform overnight and Jokic would still make them a great offensive team. Heck if the would struggle with spacing just put AG or Wiggins in a 6th man role and find a free agent shooter specialist.
No more Murray dribbling the air out of the ball and yeeting a turnaround brick. No more MPJ stealing rebounds from his teammates or getting bullied on D. No more their albatross contracts.
If this was a real deal i would kiss you.

[BBallFreak]

Take out the picks on Miami's side of things and I'd do it. No need to give up quality picks for MPJ. And we don't need 3 first round picks in this year's draft.

[TheShow2021]

I like the premise but I don't get the MPJ for Wiggins part of it. I think MPJ has considerably more value than Wiggins.

And for the other part, seems too good for the Nuggets, essentially trading Murray for Suggs.

My recommendation: Cut out the Heat and have the Nuggets offer more to the Magic