2025 Draft Thread

[doclinkin]

Maybe. If this front office thinks Queen is the move then I don’t hate it. If they think they can unlock better speed moving sideways and backwards. Personally I think his hidden weapon is his dribble pass game, where he can be effective even without a too-pretty outside shot. As a big you can trust him with the ball. Most bigs are pass dependent. He can be a ball handler in a reverse pick and roll.


However, a ‘takeover offense’ is overrated if he’s a liability on D. At that point he’s a giant Trae Young. Except that defense is more critical on the interior than it is for guards. If he can’t slow down the pick and roll himself and everybody is scoring on his head then his ability to beat up on smaller players is less useful. I just saw him literally come up short against taller players this year and it made me wonder how his skill set would translate. I know he can rebound. Handle. Pass. Shoot better than expected. And loves the game so he’ll surely improve if coached right.

I don’t like reports that suggest he’s undermotivated in the training room. And reading back over the past couple years of his hype everyone has been saying ‘if he ever can trim up he’ll be a monster’. And I agree. So far he hasn’t headed in that direction. Shrug. There’s only one Joker in this league and he plays big against other bigs. Other thicc players struggle. Embiid gets foot injuries. The Pels lose Zion every other year. It’s a real question.

[doclinkin]

Thomas Sorber is consistently being mocked in the later part of the 1st round, and could legitimately be available to the Wizards with their 2nd pick. Sorber would allow the Wizards to move Sarr to PF in a role similar to that of Evan Mobley in Cleveland.

I have a strong certainty that Sorber is a lottery pick. He only falls that far if his medicals have real question marks. Or if his recovery is projected to take most of the season.

[The Consiglieri]

Curious -- who's a good comp for Queen in the league?

Randle on the Twolves. Minus the one year he shot 40% from 3. Face up skilled true big, with iffy defense. Undersized center but toolsy if slower forward if he can convert to the position.

That said if the team thinks they can speed up his feet on defense with conditioning and core strength, then I don't hate him at #4 or 5. He's an older freshman, but there's upside with nutrition and training. Focus.

His age is yet another knock for me, and confusing. I imagine it would be easy to figure out if you look in to his story, but the fact that he's nearly 2 years older than all other freshman is incredibly odd, and I don't like overage anything when it comes to prospects, and his profile is almost impossible to figure out from such a perspective.

I very much doubt we draft him, and I'm absolutely hoping we don't. Some of this I'll freely own is an aversion to local DC prospects that the board always seems to inflate pre-draft. Every once in a while they pan out, but usually no such luck. But I also just view Queen as a weak pay off in a class like this, and a player that I think will always be really limited in value long term. He will not change any calculus to me. Otoh, he carries far less risk than other prospects in that 4-8 zone, I just want us to swing for a grand slam, not a double, with the pick. I can live with the swing and miss, far more than getting a high floor prospect based exclusively around offense (it's part of the reason I'm also a little concerned with Tre). Admittedly there are far, far more risky prospects around like Kasparas, and I wouldn't take him either, which is one of the reasons landing at 5 or 6, which is nearly in equal probability to 1-4, would be so enormously frustrating (unless someone made an enormous reach, and we took advantage of the good fortune).

[The Consiglieri]

Alright, well that settles it, then we definitely need to fall in the top 4 crap teams to ensure we keep it, top 5 to logically almost certainly keep it (somewhere around 1 in 150 chance of losing it, technically possible but highly unlikely). I was wondering if we could basically say to the Knicks post lottery:

We fall to 1.09, we generate pick swap with the Suns who jumped to 3, that's the Suns pick, our pick, at 9, stays at 9, knicks use it. But it doesn't work that, way, I guess the protection runs to 8 and nothing can be done ex-post facto, like running the swap (would that mean the knicks could use the swap though? since its their pick?).

No the swap is an agreement between teams, it is not attached to a pick. It does not confer. If we don't have a pick, we don't have a swap. NY gets to do whatever they want with our pick. But our agreement with the Suns does not confer.

So bizarre, I hate how this league pretty much runs everything lol, apron this, apron that, mid level exception, yada yada, its just feels like the insane tax code we have, why not just set up a simple cap structure like the NFL? Maybe there's a good reason, but it just gives me a migraine.

The swap thing is kinda new. Its a way to dodge the rule that says you can't trade consecutive 1st round draft picks and leave your fanbase zero hope due to crappy management. PHX managed to make a mockery of that since technically they have 1st round picks, they have just promised to swap all of them. They went all in on NOW. And predictably nosedived. But in theory it is to preserve competitive balance since the league is no fun if only 2 teams win all the time. Boston and LA.

Likewise the 'apron' thing is meant to make it difficult for the haves to dominate the have-nots. The NBA doesn't want a NY Yankees type team to simply buy all the best players just because they have a market advantage. The more expensive your team, the harder it will be to keep it all together over time. The penalties become truly brutal, and at least the lesser teams get to profit off of it since the tax penalties are distributed to all teams who are not paying it. So long as they are paying at least 90% of the cap. They don't want freeloaders fielding non-competitive teams just to hoover up the extra funds from the cap abusers.

So every few years the best of the best will have bloated contracts and need to dismantle it to start over. And there will be a feeding frenzy of parity for a few years of one-trophy champions before the next generational player is drafted and a team is build around them etc. Or that's the idea anyway.

It still doesn't work. LA manages to draw players on the cheap, or somehow get them basically for free like Luka. They don't mind paying the tax because they can charge Hollywood star prices for suites etc.

Ultimately the draft is the great leveler. In theory everyone has a chance. San Antonio is a small market. Nobody wants to move to Cleveland or Milwaukee. But a lucky bounce or a smart draft pick can change the fortunes of a franchise. One guy is all it takes to build around. If he's the right guy.

The thing that OKC and now the Wiz are doing is to collect all of the lucky bounces that other teams are not properly valuing. Most teams undervalue the future. Here we profit by being enablers for bed management. We help out the cap abusers by playing the long game. We have control over 10 first round draft picks over the next 5-7 years. In that time we also have 16 second round picks. While other teams are focused on the 'now', the Wiz are poised to follow the OKC dynasty with a 2nd dynasty of our own --if we can scout smart and draft lucky. And we can do so on the cheap, and renewably.

Because the only place where salaries are really controlled is for rookie draft picks. If you catch a superstar early you can keep realistically them for their first 2 contracts. If you are constantly refreshing your talent pool with extra draft picks, especially from shortsighted 'win now' teams, then you have the ability to get good on the cheap and stay cheap. The damage only shows up when you have a team that wins long for a few years in a row, and your stars require higher cost to retain. One of them good problems to have. If you play it right though, with all these extra draft picks and swaps, you may have drafted the next star, or the next behind them. Trade out good players before they become too pricey, if you know their understudy is coming up behind them.

This is why the smartest things we have done in the past few years is hire Michael Winger. He's the cap svengali who is looking at the long term and picking the quantum timeline where we may sustainably win for a long time. The team is investing heavily in Player Development over everything else.

I think we luck out in that Ted took a hit in caring so much about player 'loyalty' that it bit him in the butt a couple times. He has backed away from the Wizards and seems like he's given the team more time. The fact that he has a building to re-construct and other distractions may mean we have a little time to grow and develop. The metaphor is right there. He wanted to 'pull a geographic' as the addicts say, where you just pick up and move to a new place hoping for a fresh start, but still carry all your problems with you. Instead he is required to do some careful re-building from within. Thoughtfully. And not be greedy for wins to try to justify a huge new sportsing complex with gambling and bells and whistles and whee... No. Winger said it. We have to deconstruct the team. Then very intentionally build a foundation. Some part of that means carefully taking out the last of the team's old bad habits. Like trading away draft picks for a one year rental of Westbrook.

As soon as that is done, we can make all of our own decisions.

+1 .

[DCZards]

Thomas Sorber is consistently being mocked in the later part of the 1st round, and could legitimately be available to the Wizards with their 2nd pick. Sorber would allow the Wizards to move Sarr to PF in a role similar to that of Evan Mobley in Cleveland.


NBA Draft Room: Current Big Board Position #22
Thomas Sorber C – Georgetown – HT: 6-10 – WT: 255 – WING: NA – Fr – NBA Comp: Jarrett Allen
A big-bodied center who impacts both ends and rebounds the heck out of the ball. A breakout star for the Hoyas who showed some really nice stretches of play. He’s got a nice combination of size, scoring touch and passing vision. He’s a NBA level rebounder and a really good rim protector. He’s got decent feet for a player his size and does a decent job of defending the pick and roll and guarding in space. He’s not a major threat from outside but he can hit the mid range and is a solid FT shooter. His 3pt shot looks like it’ll develop in time and become a bigger part of his game. His rate of improvement over the past year is impressive and the sky seems to be the limit for him.


Bleacher Report: Current Mock Position #22
Thomas Sorber (Georgetown, C)
Previous Mock Position: No. 24
Size: 6’10”, 255 lbs
Age: 19
Nationality: USA
Pro Comparison: Onyeka Okongwu
His finishing tools, post skill and passing were noticeably advanced throughout the season. He was disruptive defensively (2.0 blocks, 1.5 steals) and despite poor jump-shooting percentages, the confidence/comfort he showed to keep taking mid-range shots and threes was still encouraging.


YAHOO SPORTS: Current Mock Position #25
Sorber has a brick-house frame and the throwback skill set to match with strong screens, soft-touch finishes and gritty drop-coverage instincts.

Watch on YouTube

A young, spry Kevon Looney?

Sorber will be a much more polished and well-rounded offensive player than Looney.

[doclinkin]

His age is yet another knock for me, and confusing. I imagine it would be easy to figure out if you look in to his story, but the fact that he's nearly 2 years older than all other freshman is incredibly odd, and I don't like overage anything when it comes to prospects, and his profile is almost impossible to figure out from such a perspective.

He’s a December baby. So that normally puts a kid at a disadvantage to kids born earlier in the year. Parents and coaches like to re-class kids to the next younger year nowadays so they get a maturity advantage over their counterparts. It’s rare that a kid like Bub (or Fears in this years draft) stays in their grade if they’re younger. Even more rare that someone like Flagg reclasses to an older year.

[The Consiglieri]

Prospects this board has an affinity for to an ususual degree:

Derik Queen (5-6 zone)
Tre Johnson (5-6 zone)
K. Maluach (5-6 zone)
CMB (5-6 zone)

Thomas Sorber (Memphis Pick)
R. Fleming (Memphis Pick)

I don't have enough time to check to see if every single Fleming reference was actually just like one poster (for instance, DAT is huge on Fears, I kinda am as well, and also Jase, but I can't remember anyone else on the latter, and anyone else on the former, except for me)

[The Consiglieri]

Thomas Sorber is consistently being mocked in the later part of the 1st round, and could legitimately be available to the Wizards with their 2nd pick. Sorber would allow the Wizards to move Sarr to PF in a role similar to that of Evan Mobley in Cleveland.

I have a strong certainty that Sorber is a lottery pick. He only falls that far if his medical have real question marks. Or if his recovery is projected to take most of the season.

I tend to think the same, the only thing that makes me question it, is my memory of NFL, not sure of NBA, players carrying injury issues consistently dropping considerably. It nearly always impacts the draft capital used on said player. Not sure if its the same with NBA guys though, and the leagues scouts seem to really, really, really like what they saw pre-injury. I would say I expect him to go between about 13-25, just not sure where, and am assuming in the late teens.

[prime1time]

Maybe. If this front office thinks Queen is the move then I don’t hate it. If they think they can unlock better speed moving sideways and backwards. Personally I think his hidden weapon is his dribble pass game, where he can be effective even without a too-pretty outside shot. As a big you can trust him with the ball. Most bigs are pass dependent. He can be a ball handler in a reverse pick and roll.


However, a ‘takeover offense’ is overrated if he’s a liability on D. At that point he’s a giant Trae Young. Except that defense is more critical on the interior than it is for guards. If he can’t slow down the pick and roll himself and everybody is scoring on his head then his ability to beat up on smaller players is less useful. I just saw him literally come up short against taller players this year and it made me wonder how his skill set would translate. I know he can rebound. Handle. Pass. Shoot better than expected. And loves the game so he’ll surely improve if coached right.

I don’t like reports that suggest he’s undermotivated in the training room. And reading back over the past couple years of his hype everyone has been saying ‘if he ever can trim up he’ll be a monster’. And I agree. So far he hasn’t headed in that direction. Shrug. There’s only one Joker in this league and he plays big against other bigs. Other thicc players struggle. Embiid gets foot injuries. The Pels lose Zion every other year. It’s a real question.

Which game?

In a perfect world I'd draft Michael Jordan this draft. And Shaq next draft. And Lebron the draft after that. But this isn't a perfect world. After Flagg and Harper every prospect has question marks. You do the best with what's available. It's easy to argue against Queen in a vacuum. But it's easy to argue against almost any player in a vacuum. And barring the all time greats, every player leaves something to be desired. In the context of building a team, after Flagg, Harper and Bailey (or maybe don't include Bailey) you tell me who you like and I guarantee you that I could make a great argument against them.

Like look at your post. You're trashing all stars. Who are the top 5 Wizards players in the last 30 years. How many of those guys would you take over Trae Young, Joel Embiid or Zion. Like c'mon bro. Even Julius Randle is having a solid year. The way people just trash solid players is bizarre.

[The Consiglieri]

His age is yet another knock for me, and confusing. I imagine it would be easy to figure out if you look in to his story, but the fact that he's nearly 2 years older than all other freshman is incredibly odd, and I don't like overage anything when it comes to prospects, and his profile is almost impossible to figure out from such a perspective.

He’s a December baby. So that normally puts a kid at a disadvantage to kids born earlier in the year. Parents and coaches like to re-class kids to the next younger year nowadays so they get a maturity advantage over their counterparts. It’s rare that a kid like Bub (or Fears in this years draft) stays in their grade if they’re younger. Even more rare that someone like Flagg reclasses to an older year.

Yeah, but then I'd assume he's 19 turning 20, but he's 20 turning 21, which is weird as hell. I was a December kid to, so I get that, but normally that would just mean he turned 19 early in his freshman year, rather than 20. I literally can't remember any NFL prospect coming out that turned 20 as a freshman. Like any, ever. It's really odd to me. And I'd also argue that it makes your profile much worse to be a good two years older than your class.

[Dat2U]

Thomas Sorber is consistently being mocked in the later part of the 1st round, and could legitimately be available to the Wizards with their 2nd pick. Sorber would allow the Wizards to move Sarr to PF in a role similar to that of Evan Mobley in Cleveland.


NBA Draft Room: Current Big Board Position #22
Thomas Sorber C – Georgetown – HT: 6-10 – WT: 255 – WING: NA – Fr – NBA Comp: Jarrett Allen
A big-bodied center who impacts both ends and rebounds the heck out of the ball. A breakout star for the Hoyas who showed some really nice stretches of play. He’s got a nice combination of size, scoring touch and passing vision. He’s a NBA level rebounder and a really good rim protector. He’s got decent feet for a player his size and does a decent job of defending the pick and roll and guarding in space. He’s not a major threat from outside but he can hit the mid range and is a solid FT shooter. His 3pt shot looks like it’ll develop in time and become a bigger part of his game. His rate of improvement over the past year is impressive and the sky seems to be the limit for him.


Bleacher Report: Current Mock Position #22
Thomas Sorber (Georgetown, C)
Previous Mock Position: No. 24
Size: 6’10”, 255 lbs
Age: 19
Nationality: USA
Pro Comparison: Onyeka Okongwu
His finishing tools, post skill and passing were noticeably advanced throughout the season. He was disruptive defensively (2.0 blocks, 1.5 steals) and despite poor jump-shooting percentages, the confidence/comfort he showed to keep taking mid-range shots and threes was still encouraging.


YAHOO SPORTS: Current Mock Position #25
Sorber has a brick-house frame and the throwback skill set to match with strong screens, soft-touch finishes and gritty drop-coverage instincts.

Watch on YouTube

A young, spry Kevon Looney?

Sorber will be a much more polished and well-rounded offensive player than Looney.

Hopefully, but in terms of the way they move around the floor and the ability to process the game quickly, I see a lot of similarities.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Thomas Sorber is consistently being mocked in the later part of the 1st round, and could legitimately be available to the Wizards with their 2nd pick. Sorber would allow the Wizards to move Sarr to PF in a role similar to that of Evan Mobley in Cleveland.


NBA Draft Room: Current Big Board Position #22
Thomas Sorber C – Georgetown – HT: 6-10 – WT: 255 – WING: NA – Fr – NBA Comp: Jarrett Allen
A big-bodied center who impacts both ends and rebounds the heck out of the ball. A breakout star for the Hoyas who showed some really nice stretches of play. He’s got a nice combination of size, scoring touch and passing vision. He’s a NBA level rebounder and a really good rim protector. He’s got decent feet for a player his size and does a decent job of defending the pick and roll and guarding in space. He’s not a major threat from outside but he can hit the mid range and is a solid FT shooter. His 3pt shot looks like it’ll develop in time and become a bigger part of his game. His rate of improvement over the past year is impressive and the sky seems to be the limit for him.


Bleacher Report: Current Mock Position #22
Thomas Sorber (Georgetown, C)
Previous Mock Position: No. 24
Size: 6’10”, 255 lbs
Age: 19
Nationality: USA
Pro Comparison: Onyeka Okongwu
His finishing tools, post skill and passing were noticeably advanced throughout the season. He was disruptive defensively (2.0 blocks, 1.5 steals) and despite poor jump-shooting percentages, the confidence/comfort he showed to keep taking mid-range shots and threes was still encouraging.


YAHOO SPORTS: Current Mock Position #25
Sorber has a brick-house frame and the throwback skill set to match with strong screens, soft-touch finishes and gritty drop-coverage instincts.

Watch on YouTube

A young, spry Kevon Looney?

Sorber will be a much more polished and well-rounded offensive player than Looney.

Flagg is of course the prize of this draft, but a Harper/Sorber draft would be the optimal Plan B. It is the result I’m seeing fairly often in mocks, and I’d be feeling great if that’s how it works out!

[doclinkin]

I just saw him literally come up short against taller players this year and it made me wonder how his skill set would translate.

Which game?

Indiana played 40 minutes of 7' Oumer Ballo who shot 50% on him. Queen went 3-8.

Michigan State. Rotates in three 7 footers. Queen went 2-11 FG, made all his points at the line.

Michigan plays 2 seven footers Goldin and Wolf. Queen rebounded well, but shot poorly: 5-14. Made up for it at the line 7-11. But Goldin and Wolf both had 20 on solid percentages, scoring above their season averages.

Queen can rebound on anybody, and is a load to handle and keep off the line. In the NBA he is going to see 7 footers every night so his low-post skill set will be challenged more often.

[prime1time]

I just saw him literally come up short against taller players this year and it made me wonder how his skill set would translate.

Which game?

Indiana played 40 minutes of 7' Oumer Ballo who shot 50% on him. Queen went 3-8.

Michigan State. Rotates in three 7 footers. Queen went 2-11 FG, made all his points at the line.

Michigan plays 2 seven footers Goldin and Wolf. Queen rebounded well, but shot poorly: 5-14. Made up for it at the line 7-11. But Goldin and Wolf both had 20 on solid percentages, scoring above their season averages.

Queen can rebound on anybody, and is a load to handle and keep off the line. In the NBA he is going to see 7 footers every night so his low-post skill set will be challenged more often.

You're cherry picking.
Queen went 10-19, 2-4 from 3 and 9-9 from the ft line against Michigan in the conference tournament.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=BigTenMen%27sBasketball
The game before that he matched up against the 7 footer from Illionis and went 7/11 from the field for 19 points.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=FrankieVision
Against the National Champs he scored 27. And they have multiple 6'9/6'10 guys.

The problem is that you seem to think that a bad game is more important/cancels out a player taking over a game. It does not. Vast majority of players in college will never take over a game offensively. A bad game here or there is expected. But what you're looking for is flashes of brilliance that can be built upon. Regardless, the mere way you're talking about him let's me know where you stand. The only thing I'd say is don't compare Queen to some perfect ideal. Compare him to the other players on the draftboard. Compare him to Edgecombe, Jakucionis, Fears, Bailey, Knueppel and Johnson. Every one of those players have had bad games. And every one of those players have question marks. Would you be shocked if Queen ended up having a better career than everyone listed?

[AFM]

Which game?

Indiana played 40 minutes of 7' Oumer Ballo who shot 50% on him. Queen went 3-8.

Michigan State. Rotates in three 7 footers. Queen went 2-11 FG, made all his points at the line.

Michigan plays 2 seven footers Goldin and Wolf. Queen rebounded well, but shot poorly: 5-14. Made up for it at the line 7-11. But Goldin and Wolf both had 20 on solid percentages, scoring above their season averages.

Queen can rebound on anybody, and is a load to handle and keep off the line. In the NBA he is going to see 7 footers every night so his low-post skill set will be challenged more often.

You're cherry picking.
Queen went 10-19, 2-4 from 3 and 9-9 from the ft line against Michigan in the conference tournament.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=BigTenMen%27sBasketball
The game before that he matched up against the 7 footer from Illionis and went 7/11 from the field for 19 points.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=FrankieVision
Against the National Champs he scored 27. And they have multiple 6'9/6'10 guys.

The problem is that you seem to think that a bad game is more important/cancels out a player taking over a game. It does not. Vast majority of players in college will never take over a game offensively. A bad game here or there is expected. But what you're looking for is flashes of brilliance that can be built upon. Regardless, the mere way you're talking about him let's me know where you stand. The only thing I'd say is don't compare Queen to some perfect ideal. Compare him to the other players on the draftboard. Compare him to Edgecombe, Jakucionis, Fears, Bailey, Knueppel and Johnson. Every one of those players have had bad games. And every one of those players have question marks. Would you be shocked if Queen ended up having a better career than everyone listed?

Dude, he's too fat, and probably lazy, and he's born in December, and he's a turnstyle on defense-- DO NOT DRAFT!!!!!

[AFM]

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=NoCeilingsNBA

Look at the move at 1:21. Put lil bro in the spin cycle, double washed permanent press mode.

Too bad he's 400 lbs. I heard that Luka guy is a fatfuk too, someone should trade his ass for Anthony Davis.

[dobrojim]

His age is yet another knock for me, and confusing. I imagine it would be easy to figure out if you look in to his story, but the fact that he's nearly 2 years older than all other freshman is incredibly odd, and I don't like overage anything when it comes to prospects, and his profile is almost impossible to figure out from such a perspective.

He’s a December baby. So that normally puts a kid at a disadvantage to kids born earlier in the year. Parents and coaches like to re-class kids to the next younger year nowadays so they get a maturity advantage over their counterparts. It’s rare that a kid like Bub (or Fears in this years draft) stays in their grade if they’re younger. Even more rare that someone like Flagg reclasses to an older year.

Not sure if anyone else addressed this already...

According to Tankathon, Sorber's birthdate is 12/25/2005. Assuming that's true, he's 19 now
and won't turn 20 until Dec 2025.

Queen is a year older.
Newall is a couple months older.
Fleming is 18 months older

Sorber and Fleming are both Jersey guys, FWIW.

[TGW]

Queen is going to be in that Sabonis mold. Great productiion but not going to be a difference maker or suitable on the defensive end.

[payitforward]

Thomas Sorber...

A young, spry Kevon Looney?

He looks a lot like Jarrett Allen to me -- & that's even better than Looney!
Either one would be a fantastic success story for a pick in the early 20s, that's for sure!

[payitforward]

Just because you think a guy should be picked later than 4 or 5 doesn't mean you don't think he's going to be a good player!