Kevin Durant's legacy

[f4p]

Hmm, when exactly was the thin? He's had 2 (and sometimes 3) hall of fame teammates since 2012 , with only 2021 and Klay's injury being the only time there was only 1 actually playing. Seems like he would have been crazy to ever leave.

Well, 2020 and 2021 when Klay was out and the Warriors weren't in the hunt, and then honestly 23 and 24 and the first half of this season prior to the Jimmy trade when the Warriors weren't anything special.

Ok but klay was injured and presumably coming back after 2021. The organization hasn't squandered the future or anything, it was just waiting for unfortunate injuries to play out. And they had just gone to 5 straight finals. Leaving 1 year after the best franchise run since Jordan's bulls would be a pretty quick exit. And 2023 was literally a championship defense year.

[OldSchoolNoBull]

Nearly only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Sport is an absolute. You either win or lose. There is no moral victories, or almost, etc. You know better than this.

Winning a championship is very hard. Franchises are tasked to win by any means necessary. It's malpractice if they don't.

You are a Warriors fan. You can't be objective about this.

The point is if the Warriors had run back the 2016 team in 2017(or just added new depth or whatever), they would've still been one of the favorites to win it all. They did not need KD.

So 'run it back' as in stay put and not want to improve at all. Say that out loud, and see how silly that sounds.

In fact, lets hold the rest of the Association to the same standard. Boston should be 'punished' for adding Porzingis since they were 'close' in 2022. How do you feel about that?

1. The 2016 Warriors core had already proven they could win a championship, since they did it in 2015. The 2022 Boston core didn't win a championship(and didn't even make the Finals in 2023).

2. Porzingis is not the same as Durant. I don't even think he was viewed as a positive contract when he was in Washington(or even towards the end of his time in Dallas). And he missed a big chunk of the Celtics' title run anyway.

[OldSchoolNoBull]

Hmm, when exactly was the thin? He's had 2 (and sometimes 3) hall of fame teammates since 2012 , with only 2021 and Klay's injury being the only time there was only 1 actually playing. Seems like he would have been crazy to ever leave.

Well, 2020 and 2021 when Klay was out and the Warriors weren't in the hunt, and then honestly 23 and 24 and the first half of this season prior to the Jimmy trade when the Warriors weren't anything special.

Ok but klay was injured and presumably coming back after 2021. The organization hasn't squandered the future or anything, it was just waiting for unfortunate injuries to play out. And they had just gone to 5 straight finals. Leaving 1 year after the best franchise run since Jordan's bulls would be a pretty quick exit. And 2023 was literally a championship defense year.

Fair enough.

[Nate505]

His legacy is an all time great talent, maybe the best offensive player I've ever seen (or at least up there), but one who one the weakest championships of all time.

I get why people have him as like a top 15 player ever, but I don't. Those rings with the Warriors mean nothing to me. Of course, I'm just one insignificant person, but I don't believe I'm the only one who thinks this way by a long shot, and when it comes to legacies, that's the whole point.

[Baz]

He is a great player with a pathetic legacy. He ruined the Nets and he ruined the Suns. Devin Booker who clearly looked up to him for leadership has completely lost his hunger and will to win. This was a great young player who used to have a lot of fire in his belly and seeing him play and talk now is just sad. The KD effect.

[wade44]

His legacy is ultimate bus rider and bitch mentality

[Tacoma]

It doesn't seem any less admirable than a 73 win team calling an MVP in the parking lot AFTER GAME 7 to beg him to help them beat the bully who just punked them. Or driving out to the Hamptons to also beg that guy to join the team. I've never understood how KD was just looking for an easy chip (which is true ) but the warriors were just out here taking the hardest road.

It’s definitely less respectable IMO. The Warriors got punked, but as an organization, I don’t really blame them for recruiting a player of KD’s caliber. That’s their job. If there’s a reasonable chance of getting a free agent like KD on your team, you go for it. KD actually being swayed by their sales pitch, on the other hand… it’s like you have to have enough pride to not join an all-time, freakishly talented team against whom you just blew a 3-1 lead. Call it “toxic masculinity” (which I think can be a real thing tbf) or something if you want, but that’s an impossibly shameless move. The Warriors were just trying to retool, whereas KD was being a tool.

No, I disagree with that. The Warriors didn't need to retool. That was a core that was one game away from being a back-to-back champion that won 67 and 73 games. It's like saying the Spurs, after winning in 2005 and losing in 2006, needed to retool by adding Kobe to the roster.

I will always criticize Durant for the move, but the Warriors deserve it too. I give Steph all the credit in the world for staying loyal to the Warriors through thick and thin in an era where big names were team hopping all over the place, but the one chink in his armor in that regard is that he was the one guy who could've stopped the Durant move, and he didn't. He and Draymond could've said to management "No. We nearly just won it all - we might have anyway if Draymond didn't get suspended - we don't need KD. We're good." But they didn't. They recruited and signed off.

When Kobe demanded a trade in 2007, the Spurs were one of the teams expressing interest IIRC. So I don't think they would say no if Kobe went later and said I want to sign with you. In the same vein. you can't really criticize GSW for adding Durant. The job of GSW Front Office is to win and though they were already good, this gave them a better chance, so you take it.

That said, I do agree that Curry's legacy would be better had Durant not join and they still win in 2017 and 2018. However had they lost in those years (with no Durant), then his Curry's legacy may be reduced because he'd have less rings. So whether Curry's legacy is hurt by Durant joining the team is questionable depending on what would have happened had Durant not joined, which we'll never know.

Durant is a different story. Curry proved he could win before Durant came and he proved it again after Durant left. One of the reasons Durant left GSW was to prove he can win without Curry. He failed to prove that and, as great as his legacy is, that failure has an impact.

[hugepatsfan]

I don't think the move to Phoenix really "hurt" his legacy. Winning there just would have been an opportunity to improve it and that hasn't happened. I don't think he be viewed any lesser now than he did before the trade though.

He's obviously an all time great, top 20ish player of all time (and that's meant to be all encompassing - probably higher). Any "serious" publication or discussion will rank him as such. But he's always going to be a meme/made a mockery of in casual conversations or discussion for the Beta move of tucking his tail between his legs to sign with GSW and not winning much outside of that stop.

[TheGOATRises007]

His legacy is an all time great talent, maybe the best offensive player I've ever seen (or at least up there), but one who one the weakest championships of all time.

I get why people have him as like a top 15 player ever, but I don't. Those rings with the Warriors mean nothing to me. Of course, I'm just one insignificant person, but I don't believe I'm the only one who thinks this way by a long shot, and when it comes to legacies, that's the whole point.

People need to stop saying this.

There's 2 players from his era alone that are easily better than him on offense in LeBron and Curry + Jokic as well.

Nowhere near the best offensive player ever nor even up there. There's probably 10 players on offense all-time better than KD.

[Johnny Tomala]

The best USA Basketball player ever. Top 25 NBA player ever. Top 20 basketball player ever.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Why is there so much discussion about his Golden State run in a thread about his Phoenix run?

On topic. Phoenix doesn't change much for me. It certainly isn't a negative on his legacy. He's playing well enough considering his age. His place is secured by what he's already done. He has a few chances remaining to substantially add to it, but that looks unlikely at this point.

I view careers in cumulative terms not as being additive and subtraction. A bad year doesn't lower a player's lagacy, at worst it fails to add to it as much as it could have.

[ArksNetsSince99]

I don't think the move to Phoenix really "hurt" his legacy. Winning there just would have been an opportunity to improve it and that hasn't happened. I don't think he be viewed any lesser now than he did before the trade though.

He's obviously an all time great, top 20ish player of all time (and that's meant to be all encompassing - probably higher). Any "serious" publication or discussion will rank him as such. But he's always going to be a meme/made a mockery of in casual conversations or discussion for the Beta move of tucking his tail between his legs to sign with GSW and not winning much outside of that stop.

Ask Suns fans

[Bankai]

In my view, Durant has every right to believe he did the right thing for himself by joining the Warriors. But he will be known as the supposed #2 guy in the NBA who ring chased during his prime, and joined a superteam in the established 72 win Title Caliber Warriors. I know people will say, but LeBron did it too. The big difference he didnt join a superteam, superteams were created around LeBron, in Miami and in Cleveland. He didnt join any Championship Caliber team, prior to his arrival. His time in Brooklyn again showed he isint the guy, and thats ok, still a good career.

[The4thHorseman]

Ok, so an elite player joining a 73-win team that beat him a few weeks earlier because of his choking is admirable to you?

It doesn't seem any less admirable than a 73 win team calling an MVP in the parking lot AFTER GAME 7 to beg him to help them beat the bully who just punked them. Or driving out to the Hamptons to also beg that guy to join the team. I've never understood how KD was just looking for an easy chip (which is true ) but the warriors were just out here taking the hardest road.

It’s definitely less respectable IMO. The Warriors got punked, but as an organization, I don’t really blame them for recruiting a player of KD’s caliber. That’s their job. If there’s a reasonable chance of getting a free agent like KD on your team, you go for it. KD actually being swayed by their sales pitch, on the other hand… it’s like you have to have enough pride to not join an all-time, freakishly talented team against whom you just blew a 3-1 lead. Call it “toxic masculinity” (which I think can be a real thing tbf) or something if you want, but that’s an impossibly shameless move. The Warriors were just trying to retool, whereas KD was being a tool.

Golden St. was recruiting Durant for practically the entire 2016 season. It didn't just start after choking the 3-1 lead.

This is from Woj.

Here's the thing that's interesting about Golden State -- their players have been recruiting Kevin Durant all year. And it goes back to early in the season when the Thunder were struggling. And I don't know if Golden State saw them as a peer; I don't know that they saw them as a threat ... Kevin Durant, just like he was hearing from guys in Boston, Washington, different places -- he was hearing from guys on the Warriors about, 'Hey, you can come help take the pressure off of Steph Curry. We need you.' This is when they were running off win after win after win.

"

They had him on their mind. He's been on their mind. And it appealed to him. And some of it was text messages, it's a lot of that. But the communication with some of the players in Golden State and Kevin, that's just not just starting now."

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/report-warriors-players-recruited-kevin-durant-all-season/1361319/

[The Master]

People need to stop saying this.

There's 2 players from his era alone that are easily better than him on offense in LeBron and Curry + Jokic as well.

Nowhere near the best offensive player ever nor even up there. There's probably 10 players on offense all-time better than KD.

Yeah, from some perspective of time, we know that KD was an amazing player, but he wasn't clearly on the level of Curry or LeBron as an 1A facilitator type of player due to shortcomings as a ballhandler and creator.

Considering that Cavs and Warriors were healthy in 2017, Rockets in 2018, Raptors in 2019, Kyrie perhaps not requesting a trade if he hadn't had to play against an unbeatable team, KD getting injured in 2019 - you can realistically claim that his window to actually win a title as a 1A option was very narrow anyway, he wasn't the best player individually nor he played for the most talented team at that time. He was talented enough on talented enough team to do so, but it was far from being given. Obviously, going to the Warriors is deservedly criticized, but the whole idea that he made a mistake is kinda far-fetched in my eyes. If he had stayed at OKC, they were only a borderline-level championship team (tbh healthy Rockets 2018 were a better team in my eyes), if he had gone to the Celtics - they had all the assets to create a great team, but it turned out that KD didn't have that much time, considering injuries in 2019 and 2020 season lost (I don't know if it was possible for him to return at any point considering he tore his Achilles in June).

Maybe he wouldn't have torn his Achilles in other scenario, but it's going too far - my point is level-wise he was this 'one title maybe as by far the most important' type of player, so I don't think it affects his legacy that much he won two semi-serious titles at Warriors. Actually, it is to some extent a positive addition to his legacy, like it or not, that he was a vital part of one of the greatest teams ever assembled. Several top20 players ever have zero titles at the end of the day.

He could get more, but also less, out of this 17-19 period. I wish he had chosen different direction, i don't think it was a mistake per se that he didn't. And I'm a LeBron fan, so obviously I could write subjectively a book about him being super weak. But objectively speaking - naah.

[Handlez]

I respect that he's a student of the game and loves the game. Always played hard. He just wanted to hoop.

He had to fight fire with fire and do the super team thing since LeBron ruined the competitive integrity of the league.

Durant did a great thing by joining GS because if he didn't, LeBron might have won 2 more super team titles that would unfairly boost his legacy.

Basically, in a way, Durant saved the integrity of the league.

Ok, so an elite player joining a 73-win team that beat him a few weeks earlier because of his choking is admirable to you? I assume you’re trolling. I can’t even empathize with the kind of seared conscience one must have to unironically believe that. It’s like saying you respect Jack the Ripper because he killed hookers.

Cognitive dissonance. It causes you extreme mental and emotional distress when people have a different opinion than you do.

My opinion is really more of a fact, too. LeBron stacked the deck multiple times and it helped destroy competitive integrity, especially in a terrible eastern conference.

Someone had to say no, this just isn't right. Why is this happening and what can we do to combat this terrible way to collect rings.

And it culminated into Durant beating LeBron at his own game, and with LeBron being afraid to guard him 1 on 1 in the most critical moments.

[Handlez]

Dude is not a winner. He's just so good at riding Curry's coattails.

Shouldn't be placed in the same tier as LeBron and Curry.

Durant won both finals MVP awards because he was the best player on the team.

[Himothy Duncan]

Snake that stole 2 rings from LeBron

[HMFFL]

His time with PHX is over. What does this run do to his legacy?

I believe it has to hurt. He left GSW to prove he could win in his own team. Not only did it not happen in BKN with the big 3, it also didn't happen with PHX and will end up with them missing the playoffs. Not that I believe that missing the playoffs is KD's fault but at this point seems like going away from GSW ended up hurting his legacy.

What are the overall thoughts of the GB on this?

Is his window to win as the man closed?

I do not believe Phoenix changes anything about KD's legacy. 2x NBA Champion, 2x Finals MVP, and a season MVP.

He will end up being top 5 in all time points.

Did you actually expect KD to put Phoenix on his back and win a title?

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[DusterBuster]

His legacy is ultimate bus rider and bitch mentality

Couldn’t have said it better. Had he stayed in OKC it would be different - hell, anywhere other than the team that had already won rings and just broke the Bulls most wins record. That move just torched his legacy, and everything he did post Warriors was an unmitigated disaster.