Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns

[Special_Puppy]

it is not possible to get the return they need to to be competitive. houston can low ball them as they don't need durant or booker. they are as good as it gets in their timeline. will be at least another 10 year until the suns will be relevant again.

The Rockets absolutely need a No. 1 scoring option and they're unlikely to land one better than Booker.

You could honestly make an arguement that Derrick White has had a better season than Booker this year and would be a better addition

[Calvin Klein]

No hope for this franchise as long as Ishbia owns the team and doesn't have a proper change of mind (unlikely with this narcissistic idiots). His main advisor is Isiah Thomas.

A complete destruction of a franchise that was in a very good position for the future. You can blame the players, coach, staff, even the GM...but it all depends on this clown.





Idiot sounds coked up everytime he speaks. Rambling nonsense at 3X speed.

[UcanUwill]

It's surprising to me that other people, other fans, they actually like the rebuild process," Ishbia said, disdain dripping from his voice as the final word of that sentence comes out of his mouth. "Like, 'Oh, let's rebuild it.' Are you crazy?! You think I'm going to go for seven years and try to get there? You enjoy the 2030 draft picks that we have holding? I want to try to see the game today. I want us to win today, and we're going to try.

I made a thread about their owner few weeks back, was stunned that a lot of people here actually agreed with his take. This guy didn't learn ****, His team is old, terrible and has no assets, and he still believe he will trade his way into championships. The only guys you will be able to afford is Bradley Beals 2.0 aka negative assets. No man, do not rebuild, you are doing great, I wonder what will he say this season, last season it was 26 franchises would trade their spot for theirs, I wonder what is the line for this year would be?

Guy is literally Prokorov 2. We had those reports on teams asking for more and more assets cause its Prokorov, he was a dumbass. This is literally the same thing, Wizards already upsold their mistake, other teams will do the same on this guy.

[Jadoogar]

I was legitimately offended by their defensive effort down the stretch, when they should have been fighting for their playoff lives. Highest payroll in the league. Yikes.

Blow it up imo. Fire everyone, and the only guy I'm not actively trying to trade is Booker, whom I would still trade for the right return.

Unfortunately, Booker is the only one with real value. KD might get one first at this point in his career (he's still good but he's also 36). Beal? lol he has negative value, if they can even get him to waive the NTC. If you actually want to blow it up, Booker has to go.

[tribulations]

Why is Booker untouchable to so many? Elite second option playing on a non-playoff team that's trying to create a new window, from a rebuild. Cut the man loose (but get the right deal)

[Ron Swanson]

It's over. I know PHX is entertaining the idea of retooling around Booker, but Booker is not a number one option. Trade Booker and KD get some assets back. Let Beal finish out his contract.

This is kinda the crux of their problem. Even at his best, Booker is an entire rung/tier below the true franchise superstar guys. That 36-year old KD was still their best player (33-29 with him, 2-16 without) is pretty damning. Ownership didn't appreciate how good and balanced a roster they had/needed (CP3, Bridges, Cam Johnson, Ayton) around him to be true contenders, so this experiment was pretty much doomed from the start.

[giberish]

The team played with the defense and energy of one that's given up on the coach. Though I wonder if in this case they've actually given up on the owner/FO instead. The team may need to move on from Bud, though the best thing that Ishida can do is move on from Isiah. That would at least give fans some hope.

They're in a really ugly situation going forward (obviously). At this point they have to trade KD - both because they've pissed him off and he doesn't want to be there and to bring in some depth and energy to the rotation. I highly doubt that they end up getting anywhere near the haul that some of their fans are expecting (though I'll still probably feel that his new team overpaid).

They'll probably keep Booker, mostly just to sell some tickets. Though if they were to get some interesting young guys back for him that might sell more tickets long-term. Either way it's tough to see them doing better than chasing the 10th seed for the next several seasons (they don't have their own picks and they're scattered around the league so it would be very tough to get more than one or two back so a classic tank and rebuild is off the table until into the 2030's).

[G R E Y]

Has Isaiah Thomas ever advised a team to success? Or at least not advised it into the ground? It's like everything he touches turns to ****. He's swindled his way into yet another owner's ear. It's a tell that an owner has no clue when IT gets hired.

[mikejames23]

Terrible team... fell off after Paul/Ayton days. It's time to rebuild and decide what to do with Booker, too.

[hauntedcomputer]

KD is an overrated clown car and Booker is a pretend superstar. Dump them and ride Bradley Beal for 30 shots a game, let him lead the league in scoring while you build some draft picks. May as well let Gillespie play point for two years on the cheap. Keep the rookie contracts. I guess you still need to meet the salary floor so try to get expiring deadweight of injured worthless vets.

Heck, bring back Nassir Little since you're still paying him anyway. Is anyone else worth keeping? Grayson Allen used to be at least functional but vanished this season. Richards can eat some minutes in a slightly incompetent but not laughable manner. The cupboard is bare and the garden is full of weeds.

I'd keep Bud because you suck anyway so may as well save some millions where you can.

You might say it's a desert out there.

[Jadoogar]

KD is an overrated clown car and Booker is a pretend superstar. Dump them and ride Bradley Beal for 30 shots a game, let him lead the league in scoring while you build some draft picks..

What draft picks?
2025 - less favourable of Minnesota and Cleveland (29th pick)
2026 - None
2027 - Least favorable of Cleveland, Minnesota, and Utah
2028 - Least favorable of Washington and Brooklyn, PHI 7-30 if not already settled and if PHI conveys 1st to OKC by 2026 and PHX.
2029 - Least favorable of Cleveland, Minnesota, and Utah.
2030 - Least favorable of Suns, Memphis, and Washington.

No control over their own pick until 2031 is wild.

[hauntedcomputer]

KD is an overrated clown car and Booker is a pretend superstar. Dump them and ride Bradley Beal for 30 shots a game, let him lead the league in scoring while you build some draft picks..

What draft picks?
2025 - less favourable of Minnesota and Cleveland (29th pick)
2026 - None
2027 - Least favorable of Cleveland, Minnesota, and Utah
2028 - Least favorable of Washington and Brooklyn, PHI 7-30 if not already settled and if PHI conveys 1st to OKC by 2026 and PHX.
2029 - Least favorable of Cleveland, Minnesota, and Utah.
2030 - Least favorable of Suns, Memphis, and Washington.

No control over their own pick until 2031 is wild.

You trade to get draft picks, that is why you take on contracts that are even worse than the ones you have but at least expire. I'm not as smart as Ishbia, though.

[Jadoogar]

KD is an overrated clown car and Booker is a pretend superstar. Dump them and ride Bradley Beal for 30 shots a game, let him lead the league in scoring while you build some draft picks..

What draft picks?
2025 - less favourable of Minnesota and Cleveland (29th pick)
2026 - None
2027 - Least favorable of Cleveland, Minnesota, and Utah
2028 - Least favorable of Washington and Brooklyn, PHI 7-30 if not already settled and if PHI conveys 1st to OKC by 2026 and PHX.
2029 - Least favorable of Cleveland, Minnesota, and Utah.
2030 - Least favorable of Suns, Memphis, and Washington.

No control over their own pick until 2031 is wild.

You trade to get draft picks, that is why you take on contracts that are even worse than the ones you have but at least expire.

right but unless they get their own picks back, what's the point of letting Beal shoot 30 times/game? Suns' own record means nothing since they don't control their draft.

[jbk1234]

it is not possible to get the return they need to to be competitive. houston can low ball them as they don't need durant or booker. they are as good as it gets in their timeline. will be at least another 10 year until the suns will be relevant again.

The Rockets absolutely need a No. 1 scoring option and they're unlikely to land one better than Booker.

Here's the problem. The moment Houston knows Booker is on the block, here comes the lowball. Why? Because now those Suns picks are valuable (for the Rockets to keep). You may be trading Booker for Houston's picks, not returning your own. The Suns wouldn't be dealing from a position of strength here, no matter how much people want to overrate Booker. These last two years haven't been kind to his reputation. Still can't handle double teams a decade in and turns 29 in October. We may have already seen the very best from him on a basketball court.

I mean if the Rockets want to low ball the Suns, they can I guess, but I'm not sure why people think the Suns would somehow be obligated to take the offer. Even if the Rockets were the only team bidding, and they won't be, you can always keep your guy.

[jbk1234]

it is not possible to get the return they need to to be competitive. houston can low ball them as they don't need durant or booker. they are as good as it gets in their timeline. will be at least another 10 year until the suns will be relevant again.

The Rockets absolutely need a No. 1 scoring option and they're unlikely to land one better than Booker.

You could honestly make an arguement that Derrick White has had a better season than Booker this year and would be a better addition

People can, and do, make all types of arguments all the time, but Booker was the No. 1 option on a team that got to the Finals. Derrick White is the 4th or 5th option on the Celtics. Any team that needs a primary scorer in the lineup isn't prioritizing Derrick White.

[Jadoogar]

The Rockets absolutely need a No. 1 scoring option and they're unlikely to land one better than Booker.

Here's the problem. The moment Houston knows Booker is on the block, here comes the lowball. Why? Because now those Suns picks are valuable (for the Rockets to keep). You may be trading Booker for Houston's picks, not returning your own. The Suns wouldn't be dealing from a position of strength here, no matter how much people want to overrate Booker. These last two years haven't been kind to his reputation. Still can't handle double teams a decade in and turns 29 in October. We may have already seen the very best from him on a basketball court.

I mean if the Rockets want to low ball the Suns, they can I guess, but I'm not sure why people think the Suns would somehow be obligated to take the offer. Even if the Rockets were the only team bidding, and they won't be, you can always keep your guy.

that's why i think a trade is unlikely. Getting other teams' picks for Booker is not valuable to the suns because they don't own their picks. Part of the reason teams trade stars for assets is to make their own picks better, that obviously doesn't apply to the suns.

Rockets know they are the Suns' best option and will therefore play hardball.

[hauntedcomputer]

right but unless they get their own picks back, what's the point of letting Beal shoot 30 times/game? Suns' own record means nothing since they don't control their draft.

To make a hilarious ploy at engaging fan interest...of course this will only win eight games a season.

[Baz]

They should've traded Booker and Durant this time last year. Better late than never, I guess.

[Damkac]

The person that really needs to be changed is the owner.

[Coach Carter]

It's no surprise, KD's chips came with the warriors. Generational talent but can't change the fortunes of a struggling franchise.