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2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1481 » by Saberestar » Sat Apr 12, 2025 9:06 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


That's great because that means that he will be OK with a buyout and he will accept to give up at least $10M from his 2 years/110M salary. Hopefully more than that.

That way we can start working on different options to improve the roster knowing that we will not be a 2nd apron team anymore.


2nd apron
Micic has a club options. I think he wants to go back home -- granted, he wanted to play with Joker too - release -- so thats 8m
Martin - I think the club option won't be picked up - another $8m

Based on what I read - that would put them about $8m above the apron

So if you can get Beal to take $10m per year - -as for the MLE he would get that back - that would put them under the apron

Which, if I have it correct - the Suns could than be able to make trades with multiple players. Meaning, in a Durant trade, maybe you can attach an Allen or O'Neale.

Yeah, that's the most realistic option this offseason.

Gambo said that he has talked with people in the league that believe that the Nuggets and the Heat are gonna be really interested in Beal after a buyout. Then keep an eye on the GSW and probably (depending of his HC) the Spurs.

Beal can get a one year deal per $15M or two years for $25M/30M. If that's the case he probably would be open to "lose" $20M in the buyout with the Suns.

In that case he would be OK getting $90M out of his $110M. That would be great for the Suns and the dead money wouldn't be that high and we can start operating under the 2nd apron.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1482 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Apr 12, 2025 9:48 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Do you know what our salary commitments in 2026-27 are ghost? How about next yr?

Y’all are infatuated with cap space, when there are only 2-3 teams that ever have any. The key is to be under and stay under the second apron while having a range of salaries to deal. Look how challenging it is to move a 50 mill contract. Turns into a 4-5 for one transaction. This cba has created many top heavy teams with overpaid players.

Who was the last 40million $ free agent signing using cap space? Seems most big ticket player acquisitions are trades and sign and trades. Cap space is highly over rated. But tax/apron restrictions have to be strategically considered.



Well, we're at $218 million with only 10 total players under contract next season, and $152 million in 26-27 with only 6 total players under contract.

And obviously we'll have to fill out our rosters regardless to get to the minimum required 15 players baseline. So currently without cap flexibility and legitimate mechanisms for that, we're otherwise limited to utilizing the draft And vet minimums to try and reduce long term payroll.

This is why the gest teams prioritize using the draft to balance our their rosters financially and picks are premium currency for trades, etc. which obviously again won't make us meadurably better competitively even with Booker.

If people are truly interested in trying to keep Booker and be even remotely competitive / better than we currently are going forward, then the most logical and responsible thing we could do is to hold onto Beal for another season so he can become a valuable gigantic expiring trade asset!!

Or else letting him expire so we can utilize that near $60 million in the summer of 27 to either sign one of those big names, or else sign multiple high end starters like many of the names listed in free agency.

I understand that it's rare for star players or max players to actually reach free agency, but there's a multitude of top tier star, superstar, franchise cornerstone talent and also high end impact starters and quality rotation options available that would easily be much better than vet MIN options or whatever we currently have on the roster.

And the most recent max level players signed in unrestricted free agency were....................

Paul George- Signed with 76ers for last summer 2024-25 for close to $ 49 million annually.

- Kwahi Leonard signed with the Clippers in 2019 for close to 44 million annually.

- Lebron in 2018, left the Cavs as an unrestricted free agent to join the Lakers signing a 4 yr 154 million deal for close to $38 million annually. Not quite 40 million, but close enough.

But sure, I get your point and understand that it's somewgar rare for star players/ max players to actually reach unrestricted free agency. Also that most are acquired via trades!

So understanding that factor being prominent, and knowing that obviously we don't have the assets or picks to actually make those kind of trades for a star player now (Unless you're willing to change position on trading Booker)???

How do we accomplish trading for another big name option without picks, cap space to aggregate contracts, (or to absorb a big incoming contract), or legitimately desirable assets that we're willing to part with??

What's your plan here? Because buying out Beal would leave us with an additional $ 22- 25 million ( * including Little's buyout money too) that would restrict our cap flexibility for the next 5-6 years going forward even with Beal off of our roster.

Please just look again at the long list of names from that list and understand that because Ishbia gave away all of our tradable assets ( aside from KD and Booker), our best shot at avoiding the dreaded 10 yr plus long rebuild is to utilize massive cap space in a very loaded 27' free agency to add the greatest overall depth and talent around Booker!

In the meantime, the smartest strategy we could use is to very simply trade KD for young, uber athletic COST CONTROLLED TALENT, and also quality impact players and expirings to begin setting up a target date of the summer of 27 with Beal then off our books completely!

And having a significant youth infusion/ athletic talent upgrade around Booker and also key vets in place and a better fitting roster and plenty of cap space to add another star player or high impact free agent or 2-3 maybe! Be loaded with depth, athleticism, and flexibility and assets around Booker rather than having to enter a decade long rebuild with nothing!!
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1483 » by bullsaficianado » Sat Apr 12, 2025 10:02 pm

Of course the Heat would go after Beal on the cheap if the Suns buy him out. They know he will say yes.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1484 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Apr 12, 2025 10:04 pm

Saberestar wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Saberestar wrote:That's great because that means that he will be OK with a buyout and he will accept to give up at least $10M from his 2 years/110M salary. Hopefully more than that.

That way we can start working on different options to improve the roster knowing that we will not be a 2nd apron team anymore.


2nd apron
Micic has a club options. I think he wants to go back home -- granted, he wanted to play with Joker too - release -- so thats 8m
Martin - I think the club option won't be picked up - another $8m

Based on what I read - that would put them about $8m above the apron

So if you can get Beal to take $10m per year - -as for the MLE he would get that back - that would put them under the apron

Which, if I have it correct - the Suns could than be able to make trades with multiple players. Meaning, in a Durant trade, maybe you can attach an Allen or O'Neale.

Yeah, that's the most realistic option this offseason.

Gambo said that he has talked with people in the league that believe that the Nuggets and the Heat are gonna be really interested in Beal after a buyout. Then keep an eye on the GSW and probably (depending of his HC) the Spurs.

Beal can get a one year deal per $15M or two years for $25M/30M. If that's the case he probably would be open to "lose" $20M in the buyout with the Suns.

In that case he would be OK getting $90M out of his $110M. That would be great for the Suns and the dead money wouldn't be that high and we can start operating under the 2nd apron.


I'm sorry man but I'm still of the mind that waiving/ stretching him even with a slight salary decrease from buyout would be a very dumb and shortsighted decision yet again. I don't see how it benefits us to carry upwards of 20 million or even 15 million ( through principle contract reduction) over the next 5-6 yrs! And then going restricted by that amount up until 2030.

Aren't people tired of such shortsighted decisions that would leave us in a difficult situation for multiple years?? And even the medial amount it might afford is at the midlevel?? If that's the plan, then as soon as you use that to fill a position, etc. We'll be right back over the 2nd apron again.

But now over the 2nd apron AND carrying 15-20 million on our books affecting our flexibility for the next half decade!

And let's be real here for a moment, unless we're also trading KD for a package of much less salary, picks, etc. Then the buyout just to add a midlevel option and be back over the spring with no flexibility again just makes zero sense!

And if we ARE in fact trading KD too, then were very unlikely to be much better than we currently are and more likely to get worse do to the reduction of overall talent, production and gravity he provides. Neither outcome really improves our situation.

So this premise becomes yet another example of activity absent accomplishment birthed from impatience and compulsivity yet again! Only now we've taken ourselves out if the possibility of being a major player in the loaded 27 free agency, and also added more financial restrictions for the next half decade.

These kind of decisions are what pushes teams into even longer painful rebuilds! Just more activity for the sake of activity but paying for it long term with no measurable payoff. :-?
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1485 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Apr 12, 2025 10:11 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
maybe he was just saying that because it could be the last time he played - -life happens.
Or he knows the team has a rebuild coming and he doesn't want to be a part of it

I think Booker in Detroit next year makes more sense for Booker himself than Booker in Phoenix.

Gambo sayinig it would be a three year rebuild.


Only a three year rebuild would be a truly nice but ultimately very unrealistic expectation considering our current situation! I mean honestly, can anyone give me an example of a team successfully executing a 3 yr rebuild with an inexperienced, egregiously negligent front office, and no draft picks or other legitimate assets of value to build around??

Most legitimate rebuilds take at least 8-10 year to get a franchise back on track competitively. And obviously those scenarios only become much longer if you can't even cash in on the mechanisms for development/ improvements via draft picks and tradable assets, etc. And we clearly don't even have those either!

So what the Gambo statement tells me is that they're either completely delusional!! ( which their actions/ decisions this season have established as a valid argument),
OR

If we're actually keeping Booker, and doing a quick reload, Then their plan if they're even remotely smart, shrewd or utilize logical assessment of our situation would be to trade KD for the best overall package of young cost controlled talent, expirings and picks.

Then we should build through the draft positionally with young, super athletic, physical young talent on cost controlled rookie scale contracts ( 4 yrs of cost control). And then NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TRADE OR BUYOUT/ WAIVE/ STRETCH BEAL!!!

Because he can simply be brought off the bench leading the 2nd unit as a super 6th man nuclear scoring option to bolster our bench scoring through next season and then actually become a valuable huge expiring trade asset.

Or else we can just let him play out his contract for upwards of 60 million in cap space to sign another star/ superstar option to put alongside of Booker and/ or multiple high end starter/ rotation level free agent options too.


Only that way can we experience a 3 year expedited rebuild back to being a top 4-6 playoff team! :nod:


The more I think about it, the more I just don't see Ish agreeing to a complete and total tear down. He's just gonna do a 180° and decide to tank? 2 years after giving up everything for KD? He doesn't seem like he wants to do that.

All of that, combined with Booker's comment and Durant being his signature move-the one he forced through when he took over makes me wonder.....

Starting to think we'll be stuck with 1 or the other and since Beal is here to take Booker's spot, then I wonder if our best hope is he trades Book and reloads around KD. That's only 2 years or so then we'll have a clean cap when he and Beal are off the cap sheet. Can sign someone/s to some max offers.

So with our hopeful Booker haul, we'd have something to build around.


For sure you're right about Ishbia and his delusional narcissistic hubris mentality notballowing himself to objectively assess our situation and make a responsible decision for the betterment of our franchise and its competitive viability.

His numerous decisions have clearly shown this disconnect from reality. This only means he'll keep doubling and tripling down on egregiously bad negligent decisions until we're stuck impossibly deep in a decade + long very difficult rebuild and become the new Sacramento kings laughingstock of the NBA.

It's very sad and unnecessary! But also predictable.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1486 » by bullsaficianado » Sat Apr 12, 2025 10:15 pm

If Suns are going for a Beal buyout does it mean they plan on keeping KD and Booker for next season?
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1487 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Apr 12, 2025 10:20 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


That's great because that means that he will be OK with a buyout and he will accept to give up at least $10M from his 2 years/110M salary. Hopefully more than that.

That way we can start working on different options to improve the roster knowing that we will not be a 2nd apron team anymore.


2nd apron
Micic has a club options. I think he wants to go back home -- granted, he wanted to play with Joker too - release -- so thats 8m
Martin - I think the club option won't be picked up - another $8m

Based on what I read - that would put them about $8m above the apron

So if you can get Beal to take $10m per year - -as for the MLE he would get that back - that would put them under the apron

Which, if I have it correct - the Suns could than be able to make trades with multiple players. Meaning, in a Durant trade, maybe you can attach an Allen or O'Neale.


Even if you get Beal to somehow accept 10 million less ( which I don't think he'll do), then you still have 100 million over the next two years that if stretched over 5 yrs is still around 20 million on our books plus Littles' 3 million making it 2- 24 million tying up our books for the next half decade, and not providing any production, just restricting us!

I'm puzzled as to what significant move stretching Beal actually affords us that would even dramatically change our current trajectory by doing this?

Unless we're also trading KD and taking back much less salary in return, then as soon as we buyout stretch Beal, were not only stuck with that money for years, but once we use the small bit of cap it would afford us, we'd be right back over the apron again anyways.

And people forget that much of this would also hinge on the abilities of our reont office to make smart, shrewd or even responsible decisions! But they've not shown 1 single example of this that I'm aware of, only gross ineptitude so far.

So why are people actually promoting this turd sandwich idea? :dontknow:
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1488 » by thamadkant » Sat Apr 12, 2025 10:41 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter



Typical Suns.

Let player go... player go to Contender... wins championship.... suns cry.


Must keep Beal or trade him for assets.

Buying him out or waive and pay the remaining 100M+ contract in instalments (lol) is not a good idea.

When healthy and when getting touches he puts up 20 points.

Suns are the dumbest team in the league ever since Ishiba bought the team....
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1489 » by thamadkant » Sat Apr 12, 2025 10:45 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Saberestar wrote:That's great because that means that he will be OK with a buyout and he will accept to give up at least $10M from his 2 years/110M salary. Hopefully more than that.

That way we can start working on different options to improve the roster knowing that we will not be a 2nd apron team anymore.


2nd apron
Micic has a club options. I think he wants to go back home -- granted, he wanted to play with Joker too - release -- so thats 8m
Martin - I think the club option won't be picked up - another $8m

Based on what I read - that would put them about $8m above the apron

So if you can get Beal to take $10m per year - -as for the MLE he would get that back - that would put them under the apron

Which, if I have it correct - the Suns could than be able to make trades with multiple players. Meaning, in a Durant trade, maybe you can attach an Allen or O'Neale.


Even if you get Beal to somehow accept 10 million less ( which I don't think he'll do), then you still have 100 million over the next two years that if stretched over 5 yrs is still around 20 million on our books plus Littles' 3 million making it 2- 24 million tying up our books for the next half decade, and not providing any production, just restricting us!

I'm puzzled as to what significant move stretching Beal actually affords us that would even dramatically change our current trajectory by doing this?

Unless we're also trading KD and taking back much less salary in return, then as soon as we buyout stretch Beal, were not only stuck with that money for years, but once we use the small bit of cap it would afford us, we'd be right back over the apron again anyways.

And people forget that much of this would also hinge on the abilities of our reont office to make smart, shrewd or even responsible decisions! But they've not shown 1 single example of this that I'm aware of, only gross ineptitude so far.

So why are people actually promoting this turd sandwich idea? :dontknow:




Suns trajectory and projection is not going to change with or without Beal.

The team's foundation of having Booker and KD as leaders is completely rotten and broken. It's the source of all the issues.

If the Suns had a LeBron James or CP3 as leader who controls KD and Booker, it wouldn't be so bad... but Booker pretending he's alpha dog is clearly a bad recipe. He doesn't lead his team, he doesn't rally them, he cannot get them to play their best game. He is a 2nd banana at the very best... the thing is... so is KD.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1490 » by Puff » Sat Apr 12, 2025 10:54 pm

It seems or so many of you guys never have anything to say unless it is negative against someone or something in regards to our management or specifically our best players.

I have had my fill of this crap and the 45 paragraph posts of how we can fix everything via your superior intelligence.

Whatever will be will be.

Next - Go Cardinals
"You Can't Always Get What You Want"
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1491 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Apr 12, 2025 11:12 pm

Puff wrote:It seems or so many of you guys never have anything to say unless it is negative against someone or something in regards to our management or specifically our best players.

I have had my fill of this crap and the 45 paragraph posts of how we can fix everything via your superior intelligence.

Whatever will be will be.

Next - Go Cardinals


It doesn't take superior intelligence (for some) to be able to recognize really bad decisions and utilize basic common sense to avoid getting sucked into championing making more compounding egregously negligent decisions that would obviously set this franchise back even further for the next decade and beyond! but if you feel that you actually have a sound argument to the contrary, please illuminate the situation for everyone. :dontknow:
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1492 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Apr 12, 2025 11:31 pm

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I still actually like the KD to Denver premise if Houston and/or OKC, or Detroit are not viable options returning young, athletic, and physical core players and picks. IF Booker is staying, and we're trying to remain competitive and avoid a rebuild a bit longer, then a package of

Michael Porter Jr/ Naji/ Braun/Holmes would still be very solid. Porter Jr could somewhat replace KD's scoring, Naji has become a really good defensive big that can hit threes, and Holmes would be another really solid, young, athletic 3 & D backup 4/5 in the Portis mold. Getting Braun would make it easier to trade Allen, and Naji could be flipped elsewhere for different pieces/ picks. Possibly to Charlotte for the 33rd and 34th picks in the 25' draft and Okogie or Nik Smith Jr perhaps?
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1493 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Apr 12, 2025 11:50 pm

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It definitely sounds like Beal is eager and willing to take a buyout and go elsewhere rather than staying in Phoenix!...LOL
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1494 » by bullsaficianado » Sat Apr 12, 2025 11:51 pm

Yeah lets just trade Durant to Nuggets and likely hand them a championship. No thanks. I am comfortable with Spurs, Rockets or sending him East if we absolutely have to trade him.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1495 » by bullsaficianado » Sat Apr 12, 2025 11:52 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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It definitely sounds like Beal is eager and willing to take a buyout and go elsewhere rather than staying in Phoenix!...LOL


Beal has almost succeeded in turning the Suns into the Washington Wizards. LOL.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1496 » by SkyBill40 » Sat Apr 12, 2025 11:55 pm

garrick wrote:
SkyBill40 wrote:Nothing Jones has done before justifies saving him from the axe. He had his chances to be a real GM and not a bootlicking yes man, but he's never shown he's fit for the job.

My real fear is that even as awful as Jones is, he'll be replaced with someone potentially worse and completely obsequious to Ishbia. The franchise can't have that. We NEED a true GM who knows what to do and when, not to mention one that requires free rein to do whatever is in the best interest of the team.

Sent from my SM-F936U using RealGM mobile app


Josh Bartlestein will probably get the job.
If it's either him or Thomas, I'm done with this team for as long as Ishbia owns it. Call me fairweather if you wish, but I'm not going to give money or attention to a dude who has fractured the franchise to the core.

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1497 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Apr 13, 2025 12:09 am

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Very true! But even beyond that, these contracts alone just aren't getting it close to done for matching requirements!

KD= 54 million.
Thompson- 16 million.
Washington- 14 million.
Hardy- 2 million.
Total- 32 million. So, where's the other 22 million in salary coming from? Dallas is still a 2nd apron team and nowhere close to being able to absorb 22 million into their cap with only 14 million in cap space before the trade. They'd still, at minimum, have to send out an additional 8 million just to be at the 2nd apron! And that's not even considering the poor overall value of the package too. :crazy:

Replace Hardy, whom the Suns wouldn't have any interest in anyways, with Lively, and now it's in the range of what's needed to get the talks moving!
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1498 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Apr 13, 2025 12:28 am

bullsaficianado wrote:Yeah lets just trade Durant to Nuggets and likely hand them a championship. No thanks. I am comfortable with Spurs, Rockets or sending him East if we absolutely have to trade him.


If we're obviously not legitimately contending ourselves anytime soon anyways, why should it matter which team wins just as long as it's just as long as the package value is there because some teams' going to win regardless! And as far as the Spurs and Rockets are concerned, BOTH franchises we have a strong adversarial history with both franchises, too, wherein they have beaten and embarrassed us in the playoffs! The Spurs with the Donaghy scandal, breaking Nash's nose and Tim Duncan's three and favorable calls, etc.

And the Rockets in both 94 and 95 with Mario Elies' "kiss of death" antics after hitting a dagger three to knock us out of the playoffs, Olajuwan always destroying us, taking Barkley from us, and more recently, gloating and being obnoxiously smug about holding our picks and stealing Booker and KD from us for a "pennies on the dollar" return because them holding our draft picks somehow means we have no leverage in a trade! And they somehow have us over a barrel???

Obviously, I shouldn't even have to mention the Mavs' rivalry with us from the past couple of years and what they did to our franchise! The Nuggets should be considered a far less controversial option than the others you've mentioned, man. But again, it shouldn't even matter because we're not seriously competing anytime soon, regardless of where KD ends up. All that really matters is the package we get back and what exactly our clown show front office can actually do with it to turn our future around! :wink:
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1499 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Apr 13, 2025 12:44 am

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1500 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Apr 13, 2025 12:48 am

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Well, no Chauncy Billups for our next coach apparently??
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