2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Keith Smith breaks down the options around Beal perfectly! Everyone should read this article for much better clarity!

[sunsbum]

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Well, no Chauncy Billups for our next coach apparently??

blazer fans hated Billups untill they started “winning”. Go figure.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Well, no Chauncy Billups for our next coach apparently??

blazer fans hated Billups untill they started “winning”. Go figure.

Par for the course in the NBA, it seems, man. I actually might like Willie Green back for offensive schemes just as long as we can add a top-tier defensive specialist/consultant to help address our glaring defensive issues.

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

Keith Smith breaks down the options around Beal perfectly! Everyone should read this article for much better clarity!

I just don’t know what team is taking Beal unless a draft pick is added

I agree that trading him for smaller contracts is better

I think if there is a trade —- open to seeing what it is

Agree that an expiring contract has value but keeping him for a year is a lot

[thamadkant]

It seems or so many of you guys never have anything to say unless it is negative against someone or something in regards to our management or specifically our best players.

I have had my fill of this crap and the 45 paragraph posts of how we can fix everything via your superior intelligence.

Whatever will be will be.

Next - Go Cardinals

You've been a RealGMer for a while and to this day is wondering why fans are criticising players who are paid superstar money to help bring team success?

[thamadkant]

Read on Twitter

Keith Smith breaks down the options around Beal perfectly! Everyone should read this article for much better clarity!

I just don’t know what team is taking Beal unless a draft pick is added

I agree that trading him for smaller contracts is better

I think if there is a trade —- open to seeing what it is

Agree that an expiring contract has value but keeping him for a year is a lot

There is NO team willing to give up picks while paying an injury plagued player top 10 star money... 50m is no chump change

[thamadkant]

Yeah lets just trade Durant to Nuggets and likely hand them a championship. No thanks. I am comfortable with Spurs, Rockets or sending him East if we absolutely have to trade him.

If Nuggets give Gordon, 2 unprotected first round picks and an expiring...

I wouldn't mind that for KD. Gordon is the big bodies PF Suns needed for a while.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Keith Smith breaks down the options around Beal perfectly! Everyone should read this article for much better clarity!

I just don’t know what team is taking Beal unless a draft pick is added

I agree that trading him for smaller contracts is better

I think if there is a trade —- open to seeing what it is

Agree that an expiring contract has value but keeping him for a year is a lot

There is NO team willing to give up picks while paying an injury plagued player top 10 star money... 50m is no chump change

Exactly! This is just another reason why we absolutely need to keep Beal this upcoming season at least until he becomes a massive expiring the following season in 2026 and then the optics for value will change as a $57 million expiring contract will have positive value to a number of teams that will be looking to reduce their payroll/ cap allotment!

And even if Beal decides he still doesn't want to be traded, then we could still just as easily let him play out his contract for the near 60 million in cap flexibility ourselves heading into an absolutely loaded 27' free agency summer!

But we under no circumstances should be looking to waive/ stretch him, buyout and stretch him, or attach picks just to move him in a trade unless we're getting back solid value which is unlikely until he becomes an expiring anyways!

Hopefully Ishbia won't be dumb again and too shortsighted to try and buy him out or waive him this summer! He could still be very valuable by just coming off the bench as a 6th man flamethrower! And that would also help him showcase himself for a potential trade or his next contract in free agency.

This should be our top and only option to take with the Beal situation.

[BobbieL]

I just don’t know what team is taking Beal unless a draft pick is added

I agree that trading him for smaller contracts is better

I think if there is a trade —- open to seeing what it is

Agree that an expiring contract has value but keeping him for a year is a lot

There is NO team willing to give up picks while paying an injury plagued player top 10 star money... 50m is no chump change

Exactly! This is just another reason why we absolutely need to keep Beal this upcoming season at least until he becomes a massive expiring the following season in 2026 and then the optics for value will change as a $57 million expiring contract will have positive value to a number of teams that will be looking to reduce their payroll/ cap allotment!

And even if Beal decides he still doesn't want to be traded, then we could still just as easily let him play out his contract for the near 60 million in cap flexibility ourselves heading into an absolutely loaded 27' free agency summer!

But we under no circumstances should be looking to waive/ stretch him, buyout and stretch him, or attach picks just to move him in a trade unless we're getting back solid value which is unlikely until he becomes an expiring anyways!

Hopefully Ishbia won't be dumb again and too shortsighted to try and buy him out or waive him this summer! He could still be very valuable by just coming off the bench as a 6th man flamethrower! And that would also help him showcase himself for a potential trade or his next contract in free agency.

This should be our top and only option to take with the Beal situation.

I agree . I just don’t see a trade without adding a pick. If it happens… that could be okay

I still think keeping him for one year if you love Booker is the way to go

[Frank Lee]

Do you know what our salary commitments in 2026-27 are ghost? How about next yr?

Y’all are infatuated with cap space, when there are only 2-3 teams that ever have any. The key is to be under and stay under the second apron while having a range of salaries to deal. Look how challenging it is to move a 50 mill contract. Turns into a 4-5 for one transaction. This cba has created many top heavy teams with overpaid players.

Who was the last 40million $ free agent signing using cap space? Seems most big ticket player acquisitions are trades and sign and trades. Cap space is highly over rated. But tax/apron restrictions have to be strategically considered.

Well, we're at $218 million with only 10 total players under contract next season, and $152 million in 26-27 with only 6 total players under contract.

And obviously we'll have to fill out our rosters regardless to get to the minimum required 15 players baseline. So currently without cap flexibility and legitimate mechanisms for that, we're otherwise limited to utilizing the draft And vet minimums to try and reduce long term payroll.

This is why the gest teams prioritize using the draft to balance our their rosters financially and picks are premium currency for trades, etc. which obviously again won't make us meadurably better competitively even with Booker.

If people are truly interested in trying to keep Booker and be even remotely competitive / better than we currently are going forward, then the most logical and responsible thing we could do is to hold onto Beal for another season so he can become a valuable gigantic expiring trade asset!!

Or else letting him expire so we can utilize that near $60 million in the summer of 27 to either sign one of those big names, or else sign multiple high end starters like many of the names listed in free agency.

I understand that it's rare for star players or max players to actually reach free agency, but there's a multitude of top tier star, superstar, franchise cornerstone talent and also high end impact starters and quality rotation options available that would easily be much better than vet MIN options or whatever we currently have on the roster.

And the most recent max level players signed in unrestricted free agency were....................

Paul George- Signed with 76ers for last summer 2024-25 for close to $ 49 million annually.

- Kwahi Leonard signed with the Clippers in 2019 for close to 44 million annually.

- Lebron in 2018, left the Cavs as an unrestricted free agent to join the Lakers signing a 4 yr 154 million deal for close to $38 million annually. Not quite 40 million, but close enough.

But sure, I get your point and understand that it's somewgar rare for star players/ max players to actually reach unrestricted free agency. Also that most are acquired via trades!

So understanding that factor being prominent, and knowing that obviously we don't have the assets or picks to actually make those kind of trades for a star player now (Unless you're willing to change position on trading Booker)???

How do we accomplish trading for another big name option without picks, cap space to aggregate contracts, (or to absorb a big incoming contract), or legitimately desirable assets that we're willing to part with??

What's your plan here? Because buying out Beal would leave us with an additional $ 22- 25 million ( * including Little's buyout money too) that would restrict our cap flexibility for the next 5-6 years going forward even with Beal off of our roster.

Please just look again at the long list of names from that list and understand that because Ishbia gave away all of our tradable assets ( aside from KD and Booker), our best shot at avoiding the dreaded 10 yr plus long rebuild is to utilize massive cap space in a very loaded 27' free agency to add the greatest overall depth and talent around Booker!

In the meantime, the smartest strategy we could use is to very simply trade KD for young, uber athletic COST CONTROLLED TALENT, and also quality impact players and expirings to begin setting up a target date of the summer of 27 with Beal then off our books completely!

And having a significant youth infusion/ athletic talent upgrade around Booker and also key vets in place and a better fitting roster and plenty of cap space to add another star player or high impact free agent or 2-3 maybe! Be loaded with depth, athleticism, and flexibility and assets around Booker rather than having to enter a decade long rebuild with nothing!!

So 3 players in the past 7 yrs were signed for near max deals? And all three chose their destinations

Seems your grand plan still involves trading Beal, pretending he is some asset due to being a large expiring deal. You think he’ll ok it? And Shttt out is still shttt in. IF he agrees to go. It stands to reason, 50 mill of salary is coming back to Phnx if he is dealt in his final yr. You just can’t declare him an asset.

So… simple question. This strategy, just absorbing Beal’s deal buy out or keeping him, when will the Suns be able to sign $35-40 million worth of Free Agents? You know, like two to three good contributing players? Signing them out right. No trades involved. Because that’s what you are banging for right?

What yr will that be? 27-28? And in the mean time we fill in the roster with minimum deals and lousy late picks? That’s semi ok if we had our picks. Subtle tank again. we know different.

Reality says …

Booker will not be shopped
Durant is likely traded
Beal is 100% gone
The front office prefers not to blow it up

This is what was said, and confirmed by the few insiders. Y’all need to come to terms with that. Quit the ‘if I were king’ driveling

It’s not pretty and it’s a daunting task to improve. Seems the first order is to get under and stay under the second apron. I don’t have a plan…I just try to figure out what theirs is………… but that seems to be the path the braincrust is taking.

So….

They’ll use the MLE (5.6 mil) hopefully get an upcoming player (Yabasule comes to mind, but he’ll likely remain in Philly) you get someone like that, a second contract dude who needs playing time that hopefully you will retain. And you do it again next yr.
Trade one of Oneal or Allen + a pick.
Trade some of the capital gleaned from a Durant deal. It’s almost certain to be a three teamer. Or at least a two parter. I do not expect nearly the return you fanatics do.
Sign Gillespie
May be use Okogie TE… it’s only 3+ mill…. But that could land Isaiah Collier or the likes.
We sorely need an upgrade at PG. Looks like we are destined for DLo. May be Carter comes back… . Smart should be available with the recent play of Carrington, but he might be gassed. Who knows? But Jones ain’t it, tho I think he could be a sign and trade asset.

They have to get under that second apron tho.

it does seems inevitable that Book will eventually want out. Cant blame him. He and Durant are the only two players from this roster that would start on other teams. What a bad hand he was dealt. The face of arguably the most dysfunctional franchise in the league.



Actually I do have a plan…. Not to support this Azzhat owner who wrecked this team and stole a valuable source of entertainment from us. Sadly, that’s my reality.

[thamadkant]

Do you know what our salary commitments in 2026-27 are ghost? How about next yr?

Y’all are infatuated with cap space, when there are only 2-3 teams that ever have any. The key is to be under and stay under the second apron while having a range of salaries to deal. Look how challenging it is to move a 50 mill contract. Turns into a 4-5 for one transaction. This cba has created many top heavy teams with overpaid players.

Who was the last 40million $ free agent signing using cap space? Seems most big ticket player acquisitions are trades and sign and trades. Cap space is highly over rated. But tax/apron restrictions have to be strategically considered.

Well, we're at $218 million with only 10 total players under contract next season, and $152 million in 26-27 with only 6 total players under contract.

And obviously we'll have to fill out our rosters regardless to get to the minimum required 15 players baseline. So currently without cap flexibility and legitimate mechanisms for that, we're otherwise limited to utilizing the draft And vet minimums to try and reduce long term payroll.

This is why the gest teams prioritize using the draft to balance our their rosters financially and picks are premium currency for trades, etc. which obviously again won't make us meadurably better competitively even with Booker.

If people are truly interested in trying to keep Booker and be even remotely competitive / better than we currently are going forward, then the most logical and responsible thing we could do is to hold onto Beal for another season so he can become a valuable gigantic expiring trade asset!!

Or else letting him expire so we can utilize that near $60 million in the summer of 27 to either sign one of those big names, or else sign multiple high end starters like many of the names listed in free agency.

I understand that it's rare for star players or max players to actually reach free agency, but there's a multitude of top tier star, superstar, franchise cornerstone talent and also high end impact starters and quality rotation options available that would easily be much better than vet MIN options or whatever we currently have on the roster.

And the most recent max level players signed in unrestricted free agency were....................

Paul George- Signed with 76ers for last summer 2024-25 for close to $ 49 million annually.

- Kwahi Leonard signed with the Clippers in 2019 for close to 44 million annually.

- Lebron in 2018, left the Cavs as an unrestricted free agent to join the Lakers signing a 4 yr 154 million deal for close to $38 million annually. Not quite 40 million, but close enough.

But sure, I get your point and understand that it's somewgar rare for star players/ max players to actually reach unrestricted free agency. Also that most are acquired via trades!

So understanding that factor being prominent, and knowing that obviously we don't have the assets or picks to actually make those kind of trades for a star player now (Unless you're willing to change position on trading Booker)???

How do we accomplish trading for another big name option without picks, cap space to aggregate contracts, (or to absorb a big incoming contract), or legitimately desirable assets that we're willing to part with??

What's your plan here? Because buying out Beal would leave us with an additional $ 22- 25 million ( * including Little's buyout money too) that would restrict our cap flexibility for the next 5-6 years going forward even with Beal off of our roster.

Please just look again at the long list of names from that list and understand that because Ishbia gave away all of our tradable assets ( aside from KD and Booker), our best shot at avoiding the dreaded 10 yr plus long rebuild is to utilize massive cap space in a very loaded 27' free agency to add the greatest overall depth and talent around Booker!

In the meantime, the smartest strategy we could use is to very simply trade KD for young, uber athletic COST CONTROLLED TALENT, and also quality impact players and expirings to begin setting up a target date of the summer of 27 with Beal then off our books completely!

And having a significant youth infusion/ athletic talent upgrade around Booker and also key vets in place and a better fitting roster and plenty of cap space to add another star player or high impact free agent or 2-3 maybe! Be loaded with depth, athleticism, and flexibility and assets around Booker rather than having to enter a decade long rebuild with nothing!!

So 3 players in the past 7 yrs were signed for near max deals? And all three chose their destinations

Seems your grand plan still involves trading Beal, pretending he is some asset due to being a large expiring deal. You think he’ll ok it? And Shttt out is still shttt in. IF he agrees to go. It stands to reason, 50 mill of salary is coming back to Phnx if he is dealt in his final yr. You just can’t declare him an asset.

So… simple question. This strategy, just absorbing Beal’s deal buy out or keeping him, when will the Suns be able to sign $35-40 million worth of Free Agents? You know, like two to three good contributing players? Signing them out right. No trades involved. Because that’s what you are banging for right?

What yr will that be? 27-28? And in the mean time we fill in the roster with minimum deals and lousy late picks? That’s semi ok if we had our picks. Subtle tank again. we no different.

Reality says …

Booker will not be shopped
Durant is likely traded
Beal is 100% gone
The front office prefers not to blow it up

This is what was said, and confirmed by the few insiders. Y’all need to come to terms with that. Quit the ‘if I were king’ driveling

It’s not pretty and it’s a daunting task to improve. Seems the first order is to get under and stay under the second apron. I don’t have a plan…I just try to figure out what theirs is………… but that seems to be the path the braincrust is taking.

So….

They’ll use the MLE (5.6 mil) hopefully get an upcoming player (Yabasule comes to mind, but he’ll likely remain in Philly) you get someone like that, a second contract dude who needs playing time that hopefully you will retain. And you do it again next yr.
Trade one of Oneal or Allen + a pick.
Trade some of the capital gleaned from a Durant deal. It’s almost certain to be a three teamer. Or at least a two parter. I do not expect nearly the return you fanatics do.
Sign Gillespie
May be use Okogie TE… it’s only 3+ mill…. But that could land Isaiah Collier or the likes.
We sorely need an upgrade at PG. Looks like we are destined for DLo. May be Carter comes back… . Smart should be available with the recent play of Carrington, but he might be gassed. Who knows? But Jones ain’t it, tho I think he could be a sign and trade asset.

They have to get under that second apron tho.

it does seems inevitable that Book will eventually want out. Cant blame him. He and Durant are the only two players from this roster that would start on other teams. What a bad hand he was dealt. The face of arguably the most dysfunctional franchise in the league.



Actually I do have a plan…. Not to support this Azzhat owner who wrecked this team and stole a valuable source of entertainment from us. Sadly, that’s my reality.

Yes agree with you. Suns FO have proven they are not patient and have gambled Suns future for a shot at a ring while KD is relevant... but dumb and stupid in regards to team building.

It is very dire.

Suns are going to likely reload around Booker so we get to see Booker average 27ppg on a 30 win team.... while not having a good pick until 2032. Those are facts and likely scenario as of today.

The suns owner is the worst thing that has happened to the Suns in its history.. never an owner throwing away assets to try to build a bad fitting superteam.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Yeah lets just trade Durant to Nuggets and likely hand them a championship. No thanks. I am comfortable with Spurs, Rockets or sending him East if we absolutely have to trade him.

If Nuggets give Gordon, 2 unprotected first round picks and an expiring...

I wouldn't mind that for KD. Gordon is the big bodies PF Suns needed for a while.

I like Gordon, just not his contract term/ length. So I might just look to move him elsewhere for different players/ picks or a better fitting option perhaps? Unless I could play him at the 3 and get a floor spacing 4 with size and 3 PT shooting ability. Like a Cam Johnson or maybe another floor spacing/ faceup 4?

Also, the Nuggets don't have any picks left to offer. And if they're ownership is intent on keeping Porter Jr due to their shared college time from Missouri, then I'd think the Nuggets would prefer to keep Gordon for defense as neither Porter Jr or Jokic are good defenders?

So without it being Porter Jr in the KD trade, I'm not sure the fit works for them and I'm also not sure they'd even have the contracts to match as a 2nd apron team.

[thamadkant]

Yeah lets just trade Durant to Nuggets and likely hand them a championship. No thanks. I am comfortable with Spurs, Rockets or sending him East if we absolutely have to trade him.

If Nuggets give Gordon, 2 unprotected first round picks and an expiring...

I wouldn't mind that for KD. Gordon is the big bodies PF Suns needed for a while.

I like Gordon, just not his contract term/ length. So I might just look to move him elsewhere for different players/ picks or a better fitting option perhaps? Unless I could play him at the 3 and get a floor spacing 4 with size and 3 PT shooting ability. Like a Cam Johnson or maybe another floor spacing/ faceup 4?

Also, the Nuggets don't have any picks left to offer. And if they're ownership is intent on keeping Porter Jr due to their shared college time from Missouri, then I'd think the Nuggets would prefer to keep Gordon for defense as neither Porter Jr or Jokic are good defenders?

So without it being Porter Jr in the KD trade, I'm not sure the fit works for them and I'm also not sure they'd even have the contracts to match as a 2nd apron team.

It all depends. If Booker wants to compete, they will keep Gordon if they trade for him.

If Suns are rebuilding, they will likely trade Gordon for more picks.

[bullsaficianado]

Jokic and Durant would be a nightmare to guard like Wemby and Durant.

[DirtyDez]

I have no interest watching Devin Booker play out the rest of his Suns tenure on mediocre teams with no upside.

[Saberestar]

2nd apron
Micic has a club options. I think he wants to go back home -- granted, he wanted to play with Joker too - release -- so thats 8m
Martin - I think the club option won't be picked up - another $8m

Based on what I read - that would put them about $8m above the apron

So if you can get Beal to take $10m per year - -as for the MLE he would get that back - that would put them under the apron

Which, if I have it correct - the Suns could than be able to make trades with multiple players. Meaning, in a Durant trade, maybe you can attach an Allen or O'Neale.

Yeah, that's the most realistic option this offseason.

Gambo said that he has talked with people in the league that believe that the Nuggets and the Heat are gonna be really interested in Beal after a buyout. Then keep an eye on the GSW and probably (depending of his HC) the Spurs.

Beal can get a one year deal per $15M or two years for $25M/30M. If that's the case he probably would be open to "lose" $20M in the buyout with the Suns.

In that case he would be OK getting $90M out of his $110M. That would be great for the Suns and the dead money wouldn't be that high and we can start operating under the 2nd apron.

I'm sorry man but I'm still of the mind that waiving/ stretching him even with a slight salary decrease from buyout would be a very dumb and shortsighted decision yet again. I don't see how it benefits us to carry upwards of 20 million or even 15 million ( through principle contract reduction) over the next 5-6 yrs! And then going restricted by that amount up until 2030.

Aren't people tired of such shortsighted decisions that would leave us in a difficult situation for multiple years?? And even the medial amount it might afford is at the midlevel?? If that's the plan, then as soon as you use that to fill a position, etc. We'll be right back over the 2nd apron again.

But now over the 2nd apron AND carrying 15-20 million on our books affecting our flexibility for the next half decade!

And let's be real here for a moment, unless we're also trading KD for a package of much less salary, picks, etc. Then the buyout just to add a midlevel option and be back over the spring with no flexibility again just makes zero sense!

And if we ARE in fact trading KD too, then were very unlikely to be much better than we currently are and more likely to get worse do to the reduction of overall talent, production and gravity he provides. Neither outcome really improves our situation.

So this premise becomes yet another example of activity absent accomplishment birthed from impatience and compulsivity yet again! Only now we've taken ourselves out if the possibility of being a major player in the loaded 27 free agency, and also added more financial restrictions for the next half decade.

These kind of decisions are what pushes teams into even longer painful rebuilds! Just more activity for the sake of activity but paying for it long term with no measurable payoff.

Beal is gone. Gambo doubled down on it again.

He says that there is "0 percent chance" that he will be on the roster next season.

We will try to trade him. Yeah, we will try it and if we can do it NICE but if we can't do it we aren't gonna say OK...we will agree on a buyout.

He just has to give up $10M out of his $110M, but hopefully he agrees on a bigger amount of money. Something like $20M would be nice because he will get that money and a bit more from other team.

Just with that we can get under the 2nd apron and we would get flexibility to make other moves and not having Beal (and his NTC and injuries) will be an addition by subtraction.

[Sunlight]

I have no interest watching Devin Booker play out the rest of his Suns tenure on mediocre teams with no upside.

I've realized for years that average Suns fan is more interested in Booker reaching at least 30,000 points in a Suns jersey over team success. Is that kind of a Suns fan or a Booker fan...

[sunsbg]

I'm sorry man but I'm still of the mind that waiving/ stretching him even with a slight salary decrease from buyout would be a very dumb and shortsighted decision yet again. I don't see how it benefits us to carry upwards of 20 million or even 15 million ( through principle contract reduction) over the next 5-6 yrs! And then going restricted by that amount up until 2030.

Best description of Suns FO so...

[BobbieL]

I'm sorry man but I'm still of the mind that waiving/ stretching him even with a slight salary decrease from buyout would be a very dumb and shortsighted decision yet again. I don't see how it benefits us to carry upwards of 20 million or even 15 million ( through principle contract reduction) over the next 5-6 yrs! And then going restricted by that amount up until 2030.

Best description of Suns FO so...

I agree

And Gambo said it would be a three year rebuild. So take it on the chin these two years and know the end date for Beal is 2027
Extending the pain would be worse
Ishbia has no plan - just reckless and stupid
I still prefer they keep him through the summer of 2026 just in case there is a trade to be made

But if you can buy him out, save the 15 to 20m to get under apron levels - thats the lesser of the other possible choices
a stupid trade or stretching him out

[Sunsdeuce]

I have no interest watching Devin Booker play out the rest of his Suns tenure on mediocre teams with no upside.

It’s Suns fans vs Booker fans at this point.

Either you care more about Booker than the Suns as a team or you care about the Suns more than Booker.

I’m more interested in seeing the name in front of the jersey succeed than an individual name on the back of the jersey succeed.

Some people here care more about the name on the back of the jersey than the front and would be perfectly fine watching this team be mediocre then see Booker traded.