Official NBA General Discussion 2024-25 V1.0

[tsherkin]

I don't know. In my perception he went from "damn they got a decent rotation guy undrafted" to "damn he's actually a decent starter" to "damn he's actually a really good 3rd option on a top team".

Should be said he's an ideal situation. He probably doesn't look this good without playing with lebron and doncic. But since the trade he looks REALLY good in the games I've watched. Reads the game incredibly well.

He's a solid player. He's getting chances to show it, and he has incredible support, with less defensive attention than he'd have most other places. Didn't stun in the playoffs last year, but was pretty sound the year before.

That said, volume of shot attempts is pretty much the main difference between where he was at the start and where he is now. There's something to be said for the skillset which is permitting him to maintain solid efficiency along the way, of course, but he's been roughly the same guy since the start, along a normal development curve. Solid 3, deadly inside 16 feet, good at drawing fouls despite not being terribly good at generating shots around the rim, good passer. Very strong handle. That's the guy you get.

I dunno. I follow LA pretty closely most seasons, as they were the team which introduced me to the NBA back in the 80s, so maybe I have just been paying closer attention?

[mdenny]

I don't know. In my perception he went from "damn they got a decent rotation guy undrafted" to "damn he's actually a decent starter" to "damn he's actually a really good 3rd option on a top team".

Should be said he's an ideal situation. He probably doesn't look this good without playing with lebron and doncic. But since the trade he looks REALLY good in the games I've watched. Reads the game incredibly well.

He's a solid player. He's getting chances to show it, and he has incredible support, with less defensive attention than he'd have most other places. Didn't stun in the playoffs last year, but was pretty sound the year before.

That said, volume of shot attempts is pretty much the main difference between where he was at the start and where he is now. There's something to be said for the skillset which is permitting him to maintain solid efficiency along the way, of course, but he's been roughly the same guy since the start, along a normal development curve. Solid 3, deadly inside 16 feet, good at drawing fouls despite not being terribly good at generating shots around the rim, good passer. Very strong handle. That's the guy you get.

I dunno. I follow LA pretty closely most seasons, as they were the team which introduced me to the NBA back in the 80s, so maybe I have just been paying closer attention?

I think you're just hyper-focused on the stats. If you ask lebron if Reaves has made major improvements each year I bet he would affirm. There are alot of reasons why those improvements aren't reflected in stats.

He probably started out as a top 200 guy. Moved into top 100. And now he's starting to flirt with top 50.

But like you alluded to....some of that might be that since the Luka trade....he gets the opposition's weakest defender now.

That's why I thought ppl were crazy when they wondered how the Lakers would do after the trade. They are a matchup nightmare in the backcourt. Who is Trae hunter or steph curry or fred vanvleet or kyrie irving or Tyler herro supposed to guard? The answer in most cases is Reaves. So he gets alot of minutes wherein his defender is much smaller and weaker than him.

[Tripod]

I don't know. In my perception he went from "damn they got a decent rotation guy undrafted" to "damn he's actually a decent starter" to "damn he's actually a really good 3rd option on a top team".

Should be said he's an ideal situation. He probably doesn't look this good without playing with lebron and doncic. But since the trade he looks REALLY good in the games I've watched. Reads the game incredibly well.

He's a solid player. He's getting chances to show it, and he has incredible support, with less defensive attention than he'd have most other places. Didn't stun in the playoffs last year, but was pretty sound the year before.

That said, volume of shot attempts is pretty much the main difference between where he was at the start and where he is now. There's something to be said for the skillset which is permitting him to maintain solid efficiency along the way, of course, but he's been roughly the same guy since the start, along a normal development curve. Solid 3, deadly inside 16 feet, good at drawing fouls despite not being terribly good at generating shots around the rim, good passer. Very strong handle. That's the guy you get.

I dunno. I follow LA pretty closely most seasons, as they were the team which introduced me to the NBA back in the 80s, so maybe I have just been paying closer attention?

I think you're just hyper-focused on the stats. If you ask lebron if Reaves has made major improvements each year I bet he would affirm. There are alot of reasons why those improvements aren't reflected in stats.

He probably started out as a top 200 guy. Moved into top 100. And now he's starting to flirt with top 50.

But like you alluded to....some of that might be that since the Luka trade....he gets the opposition's weakest defender now.

That's why I thought ppl were crazy when they wondered how the Lakers would do after the trade. They are a matchup nightmare in the backcourt. Who is Trae hunter or steph curry or fred vanvleet or kyrie irving or Tyler herro supposed to guard? The answer in most cases is Reaves. So he gets alot of minutes wherein his defender is much smaller and weaker than him.

It's like us adding BI, but obviously a lesser degree. But vs Memphis JJJ was on Barnes and struggled. Well adding BI likely means JJJ is guarding BI so Barnes matchuo gets easier. Still have to execute, but it matters.

Reaves vs FVV as better undrafted guy?

[tsherkin]

I think you're just hyper-focused on the stats. If you ask lebron if Reaves has made major improvements each year I bet he would affirm. There are alot of reasons why those improvements aren't reflected in stats.

He probably started out as a top 200 guy. Moved into top 100. And now he's starting to flirt with top 50.

He's getting more opportunity to play. He hasn't actually shown much difference in anything other than shooting volume. I'm sure he's learned and adapted a little along the way, but there aren't huge, meaningful changes in his approach to the game or his skill set.

That's why I thought ppl were crazy when they wondered how the Lakers would do after the trade. They are a matchup nightmare in the backcourt. Who is Trae hunter or steph curry or fred vanvleet or kyrie irving or Tyler herro supposed to guard? The answer in most cases is Reaves. So he gets alot of minutes wherein his defender is much smaller and weaker than him.

Exactly. It works out very well for him.

[EG73]

Jokic needs 47 points today to average 30,0 ppg this season

[mdenny]

He's a solid player. He's getting chances to show it, and he has incredible support, with less defensive attention than he'd have most other places. Didn't stun in the playoffs last year, but was pretty sound the year before.

That said, volume of shot attempts is pretty much the main difference between where he was at the start and where he is now. There's something to be said for the skillset which is permitting him to maintain solid efficiency along the way, of course, but he's been roughly the same guy since the start, along a normal development curve. Solid 3, deadly inside 16 feet, good at drawing fouls despite not being terribly good at generating shots around the rim, good passer. Very strong handle. That's the guy you get.

I dunno. I follow LA pretty closely most seasons, as they were the team which introduced me to the NBA back in the 80s, so maybe I have just been paying closer attention?

I think you're just hyper-focused on the stats. If you ask lebron if Reaves has made major improvements each year I bet he would affirm. There are alot of reasons why those improvements aren't reflected in stats.

He probably started out as a top 200 guy. Moved into top 100. And now he's starting to flirt with top 50.

But like you alluded to....some of that might be that since the Luka trade....he gets the opposition's weakest defender now.

That's why I thought ppl were crazy when they wondered how the Lakers would do after the trade. They are a matchup nightmare in the backcourt. Who is Trae hunter or steph curry or fred vanvleet or kyrie irving or Tyler herro supposed to guard? The answer in most cases is Reaves. So he gets alot of minutes wherein his defender is much smaller and weaker than him.

It's like us adding BI, but obviously a lesser degree. But vs Memphis JJJ was on Barnes and struggled. Well adding BI likely means JJJ is guarding BI so Barnes matchuo gets easier. Still have to execute, but it matters.

Reaves vs FVV as better undrafted guy?

It's gotta be Reaves at this point. Do ppl think I'm crazy when I say he's flirting with top 50 at this point? That's what it looks like to me. Fred's story is epic but I don't think he ever sniffed top 50.

[PhilBlackson]

Really hope Warriors win so we get that Lakers' series.

[Elmago]

Warriors commentators made a comment that Norm was holding Steph just like he did all of the 2019 finals. They are still salty about that loss haha

[Syd-TK3]

Lakers can avoid OKC/Nuggets/Clippers until potentially the conference finals smh

[tsherkin]

I think you're just hyper-focused on the stats. If you ask lebron if Reaves has made major improvements each year I bet he would affirm. There are alot of reasons why those improvements aren't reflected in stats.

He probably started out as a top 200 guy. Moved into top 100. And now he's starting to flirt with top 50.

But like you alluded to....some of that might be that since the Luka trade....he gets the opposition's weakest defender now.

That's why I thought ppl were crazy when they wondered how the Lakers would do after the trade. They are a matchup nightmare in the backcourt. Who is Trae hunter or steph curry or fred vanvleet or kyrie irving or Tyler herro supposed to guard? The answer in most cases is Reaves. So he gets alot of minutes wherein his defender is much smaller and weaker than him.

It's like us adding BI, but obviously a lesser degree. But vs Memphis JJJ was on Barnes and struggled. Well adding BI likely means JJJ is guarding BI so Barnes matchuo gets easier. Still have to execute, but it matters.

Reaves vs FVV as better undrafted guy?

It's gotta be Reaves at this point. Do ppl think I'm crazy when I say he's flirting with top 50 at this point? That's what it looks like to me. Fred's story is epic but I don't think he ever sniffed top 50.

Reaves looks considerably better than FVV, yeah.

[ImaBeatDatAzz]

Clippers looking scary not gonna lie. Looks like the Kawhi we know is back.
I’m still praying on their downfall as I’m never NOT gonna be salty. F balmer :]

[mdenny]

Clippers looking scary not gonna lie. Looks like the Kawhi we know is back.
I’m still praying on their downfall as I’m never NOT gonna be salty. F balmer :]

I was thinking thus during the game today. It shouldn't surprise anyone if kawhi turns it on and the clippers win it all. Though he didn't play too good to close out the game today.

But you can't count him out.

There's like 5 teams in the west who could conceivably win the chip.

[Kingsway_fan]

Expecting clippers to knock out Denver first round.

[lebron stopper]

Expecting clippers to knock out Denver first round.

The Nuggets are certainly vulnerable in a lot of ways, especially with what the Clippers could throw at them... but with peak Jokic on their side, you just can't write them off so easily. And there's always the caveat that Kawhi could unfortunately get injured once again.

[JB7]

League could have the Lakers, Clippers and Warriors all make it to the 2nd round. Based on the scheduling of the games, looks like the league expects that the Warriors will end up 7th (because the Rockets series is getting the prime West tv slot on Sunday night).

Interesting too that the Cavs & OKC, the bests teams in each conference, get stuck with the early time slots. I know they are bad markets, but kind of disrespectful to give them the bad time slots.

[James_Raptors]

Nikola Jokić is already a top 10 player of all-time and a hair's breath away from breaking into the top 5.

Normally I put quite a bit of emphasis on rings when it comes to these sorts of debates on rankings.And this was especially true for me up until the last few years, as parity has started to impact my decision making more.

In spite of Embiid winning, he SHOULD be days away from winning his 5th straight MVP and he might not even be done with those trophies.
Even at 4, he joins the group of Lebron and Wilt.Do I think he's a better player than Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Bird,Hakeem,DR J,Moses Malone,Dirk,Giannis, Embiid,Garnett, Barkley, KD, and my all-time favorite player, Magic Johnson?Yup.

As far as I'm concerned, he's elevated himself to being a hair's breath away from entering the conversation with MJ (imo the best player to play the game) Lebron, Steph and a few other elder statesman.He's not in that tier yet, but I firmly put him in the top 10 now, without even a moment's hesitation.

(rounding up/down) he just did this in the 2025 season
30/13/10/2/0.5
.576/.417 (with a career high 4.7 3PA a leap from 2.9 last season)
PER:32.0
TS: .663
BPM: 13.3 (ROFL)

And apparently he was putting together one of the all-time greatest NBA regular season's, with turmoil in the coaching/front office, injuries on the roster and a ridiculously competitive Western conference.

Take a look at the highest BPM seasons of all time

1.Jokic
2.Jokic
3.Lebron
4.Jokic
5.Jokic
6.Jordan
7.Jokic
8.Jordan
9.Curry
10.Jordan

Joker has 5 of the top 7 BPM seasons of all-time.
While it's not the be-all-end-all of statistics, it's just another layer of his dominance (during the regular season).But coupled with 4 MVP's (5) and counting, and an NBA championship, in today's era of increased parity?Ya, he's absolutely top 10 already, despise the 1 ring.

As far as playoffs go, over 80 playoff games:
12.8 career BPM
TS: .616
PER: 29.2
27.7/12.3/7.5/1.1/0.9
.531/.390/.837

Jokic also has the 2nd highest playoff BPM ever (10.80 compared to MJ's 11.14)

Then you can take a look at Joker's teammates and how much "help" he has, or doesn't.No HoF'ers there, except himself.
Jamal has had a couple of great post-season runs, but he also misses a ridiculous amount of games, and has never even been an all-star a single time.
Michael Porter Jr?Nope, not even once an all-star.
Aaron Gordon? Congrats on being 17th in rookie shares in 2015. not a single ASG.
35 year old (at the time) Jeff Green? Not a single ASG.
Also a nope to the Pope, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope that is. No ASG's there either.

Who else was on that roster?
Bruce Brown,Bone Hyland,DeAndre Jordan,Thomas Bryant, Reggie Jackson,Christian Braun, you get the idea...

In this modern era, Jokic took that team on his back and carried them from start to finish.Most of his teammates are fringe all-stars or niche role players.Take a look around at the list of the greats, even over the past 15-20 years.Check out their rosters (I have) and what type of help they had, did they have a legit Robin? Or maybe two of them?

[bballsparkin]

League could have the Lakers, Clippers and Warriors all make it to the 2nd round. Based on the scheduling of the games, looks like the league expects that the Warriors will end up 7th (because the Rockets series is getting the prime West tv slot on Sunday night).

Interesting too that the Cavs & OKC, the bests teams in each conference, get stuck with the early time slots. I know they are bad markets, but kind of disrespectful to give them the bad time slots.

Not the greatest match ups though. OKC vs lets say Memphis. That's not bad. Two small markets though and I believe OKC handled them pretty easily during the RS. And the Cavs will cake walk over whoever they play.

[Basketball_Jones]

Jimmy time! Memphis has no chance. Edey getting targeted

[Randle McMurphy]

Warriors exposing Edey defensively over and over and over again, as you’d expect

Memphis doesn’t appear to care to take him out

[Tripod]

Jesus....what a move by Ja!