PG: Knicks lose again to Cavs

[prophet_of_rage]

So I think you're distorting my comparison to make a point, I just meant that LIKE Mark Jackson, Thibs can only take you so far. I used JB Bickerstaff too to highlight the distinction.

They're saying the talent on NY can only get you so far.

Do we have scorers as talented and versatile as Tatum, SGA and Spida?

Do we have a shotblocking floor stretching big like Porzingis, Chet or Mobley?

Do we have dynamic two guards like Jaylin, Jaylen and Spida?

Defensive guards like Holiday, White or Garland?

Our talent can only take us so far. Enjoy the ride. Who knows how the playoffs break but for the regular season us not beating Boston, Cleveland and OKC is logical.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

I submit we have the most clutch player in the league in Brunson, and the floor spacing/rim protection isn’t in one player is covered by both Mitch/Kat, we have above average wing defenders in Hart, Deuce and Bridges and OG should make an all defensive team, So we’re right there…

People weren’t complaining about the talent in the beginning of the year, so it’s just about giving Thibs the time to discover the best combinations.

I was, actually. I didn't like the trade for KAT because it led to an offence that was all JB with no real variation. And Mr. Clutch now has to score against a long dedicated defender like Ausar Thompson, then Derrick White, then Deandre Hunter while being hunted on defence. Those guys aren't needed to score.

This how our team personnel isn't dead certain to win and can be overwhelmed by more talented teams.

When you say we match one Chet or Zingis with two players that's the problem. We only have 5 players. We

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[K_ick_God]

Precious is a much better player than Mitchand gives you a much better shot against Detroit.

If the Knicks play soft and afraid and stop sharing the ball or try to let Brunson shoot off no motion, then they deserve to lose. I hope they lose both and are booed off the court if they show up with no confidence and no joy or energy. They’re embarrassing themselves — that’s not the fans’ fault at all — and Detroit may humiliate them.

Stan a phony elitist. Blaming the most loyal fans in sports.

I stopped reading here

He is

[HopelessKnick]

They're saying the talent on NY can only get you so far.

Do we have scorers as talented and versatile as Tatum, SGA and Spida?

Do we have a shotblocking floor stretching big like Porzingis, Chet or Mobley?

Do we have dynamic two guards like Jaylin, Jaylen and Spida?

Defensive guards like Holiday, White or Garland?

Our talent can only take us so far. Enjoy the ride. Who knows how the playoffs break but for the regular season us not beating Boston, Cleveland and OKC is logical.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

I submit we have the most clutch player in the league in Brunson, and the floor spacing/rim protection isn’t in one player is covered by both Mitch/Kat, we have above average wing defenders in Hart, Deuce and Bridges and OG should make an all defensive team, So we’re right there…

People weren’t complaining about the talent in the beginning of the year, so it’s just about giving Thibs the time to discover the best combinations.

I was, actually. I didn't like the trade for KAT because it led to an offence that was all JB with no real variation. And Mr. Clutch now has to score against a long dedicated defender like Ausar Thompson, then Derrick White, then Deandre Hunter while being hunted on defence. Those guys aren't needed to score.

This how our team personnel isn't dead certain to win and can be overwhelmed by more talented teams.

When you say we match one Chet or Zingis with two players that's the problem. We only have 5 players. We

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Of course in the beginning of the year no one way particularly high on the "depths" of teams like OKC, Cleveland or Boston. In fact those teams were all criticized for being top heavy. The difference? Their coaches adapted and saw the necessity of developing a bench. They did it and are now rewarded. Under Thibs players like Hauser, Kornet and Pritchard would be averaging 15minutes per game---combined.

Pritchard was getting like 7-8 points a game his first 4 seasons, Ty Jerome was getting like 5 points a game...now all of a sudden the guys deflecting from Ancient-Thibs say: "Can't you see how deep those teams are?" No dude, they weren't. No one in the beginning of the season thought Cleveland or OKC were deeper or better than us. Literally you could not find even 2% that thought that.

[K_ick_God]

Btw also it’s incredibly stupid to bench Precious for the playoffs but here we are.

Precious is a much better player than Mitch and gives you a much better shot against Detroit.

If the Knicks play soft and afraid and stop sharing the ball or try to let Brunson shoot off no motion, then they deserve to lose. I hope they lose both and are booed off the court if they show up with no confidence and no joy or energy. They’re embarrassing themselves — that’s not the fans’ fault at all — and Detroit may humiliate them.

Stan a phony elitist. Blaming the most loyal fans in sports.

No

He is

More versatile, has come up big in games; including playoffs

Mobile; much better offensive upside but that ain’t hard lol

[prophet_of_rage]

by the way, the big solution people have come up with around here is that the coach needs to make the team play exactly like the celtics with worst personnel than them. newsflash, that aint gonna work either to beat them. lol

And they wonder why the Celtics blow them out repeatedly.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[prophet_of_rage]

Mikal let Garland shoot 62% FG on him so we saw him get lit up by Tatum all season long and then by a small guard in Garland. If he can't lock up wings and fast guards, who tf can he even guard?

DeAndre Huntee

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[prophet_of_rage]

Mikal let Garland shoot 62% FG on him so we saw him get lit up by Tatum all season long and then by a small guard in Garland. If he can't lock up wings and fast guards, who tf can he even guard?

In Phoenix Mikal was younger and yet was averaging just 31minutes per game and only asked to shoot a couple open jumpers here and there. He averaged like 11points over 4 seasons in limited minutes. You play around 30minutes, have the responsibility of only knocking down an open jumper here and there and are strictly a wing defender. That will OBVIOUSLY help you with energy for defense.

If anyone thinks being used often as the POA, while playing 38minutes a game, while being asked to score 18points a game will translate into the same defensive effectiveness.....well don't know what to tell you.....

That being said I don't think there is anybody left in favor of having traded 5 FRPs for Bridges. It would now be the job of the coach to maximize his effectiveness....and well that's not one of Thibs strengths....

How do you maximise him? To maximise him he detracts from others. Every moved piece opens up a new hole.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[HopelessKnick]

Mikal let Garland shoot 62% FG on him so we saw him get lit up by Tatum all season long and then by a small guard in Garland. If he can't lock up wings and fast guards, who tf can he even guard?

In Phoenix Mikal was younger and yet was averaging just 31minutes per game and only asked to shoot a couple open jumpers here and there. He averaged like 11points over 4 seasons in limited minutes. You play around 30minutes, have the responsibility of only knocking down an open jumper here and there and are strictly a wing defender. That will OBVIOUSLY help you with energy for defense.

If anyone thinks being used often as the POA, while playing 38minutes a game, while being asked to score 18points a game will translate into the same defensive effectiveness.....well don't know what to tell you.....

That being said I don't think there is anybody left in favor of having traded 5 FRPs for Bridges. It would now be the job of the coach to maximize his effectiveness....and well that's not one of Thibs strengths....

How do you maximise him? To maximise him he detracts from others. Every moved piece opens up a new hole.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Limit his minutes and duties. Us having traded 5 FRPs was a terrible trade any way we look at it. If he is not capable of being a good defender then you have to limit his responsibilities. We have JB and KAT as primary scorers able to get 25-30 points. OG seems to be more than willing to be that 3rd scorer. There are essentially two possibilities:

Bridges has declined at the age of 27 defensively in a way that is irrevesible. This would be kind of odd given that he literally has zero injury history.

Or Option B: It would be up to the coaching staff to figure out what is keeping him from playing Phoenix days type of defense.

[HopelessKnick]

Btw also it’s incredibly stupid to bench Precious for the playoffs but here we are.

Precious is a much better player than Mitch and gives you a much better shot against Detroit.

If the Knicks play soft and afraid and stop sharing the ball or try to let Brunson shoot off no motion, then they deserve to lose. I hope they lose both and are booed off the court if they show up with no confidence and no joy or energy. They’re embarrassing themselves — that’s not the fans’ fault at all — and Detroit may humiliate them.

Stan a phony elitist. Blaming the most loyal fans in sports.

No

He is

More versatile, has come up big in games; including playoffs

Mobile; much better offensive upside but that ain’t hard lol

I actually tend to agree with this notion. I swear if Pecious was on the Celtics, OKC or Cleveland he'd be getting 11points/6rebounds along with strong defense and all the Thibs apologists would be saying: "Look the Cavs have Achiuwa coming off the bench, 2-way guy with high motor and energy."

Didn't like Thibs say prior to Mitch's return that he has yet not had his starting Center the entire season? How many games did he then proceed to start Mitch alongside KAT? Zero?

A sensible coach would try that out---especially since the Knicks literally did not have anything to lose the past 3-4 weeks--- and bring Precious off the bench as the first big and see how it goes. But nope, rather keep Hart in there, weaken the bench (who needs a bench?) and eliminate Precious from the rotation.

[prophet_of_rage]

In Phoenix Mikal was younger and yet was averaging just 31minutes per game and only asked to shoot a couple open jumpers here and there. He averaged like 11points over 4 seasons in limited minutes. You play around 30minutes, have the responsibility of only knocking down an open jumper here and there and are strictly a wing defender. That will OBVIOUSLY help you with energy for defense.

If anyone thinks being used often as the POA, while playing 38minutes a game, while being asked to score 18points a game will translate into the same defensive effectiveness.....well don't know what to tell you.....

That being said I don't think there is anybody left in favor of having traded 5 FRPs for Bridges. It would now be the job of the coach to maximize his effectiveness....and well that's not one of Thibs strengths....

How do you maximise him? To maximise him he detracts from others. Every moved piece opens up a new hole.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Limit his minutes and duties. Us having traded 5 FRPs was a terrible trade any way we look at it. If he is not capable of being a good defender then you have to limit his responsibilities. We have JB and KAT as primary scorers able to get 25-30 points. OG seems to be more than willing to be that 3rd scorer. There are essentially two possibilities:

Bridges has declined at the age of 27 defensively in a way that is irrevesible. This would be kind of odd given that he literally has zero injury history.

Or Option B: It would be up to the coaching staff to figure out what is keeping him from playing Phoenix days type of defense.

He is older and has never missed a game. That's what is keeping him from playing Phoenix defence. We talk about minutes piling up but excuse never missing a game as having no wear and tear on the body. You can't play every game without chilling.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[HopelessKnick]

How do you maximise him? To maximise him he detracts from others. Every moved piece opens up a new hole.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Limit his minutes and duties. Us having traded 5 FRPs was a terrible trade any way we look at it. If he is not capable of being a good defender then you have to limit his responsibilities. We have JB and KAT as primary scorers able to get 25-30 points. OG seems to be more than willing to be that 3rd scorer. There are essentially two possibilities:

Bridges has declined at the age of 27 defensively in a way that is irrevesible. This would be kind of odd given that he literally has zero injury history.

Or Option B: It would be up to the coaching staff to figure out what is keeping him from playing Phoenix days type of defense.

He is older and has never missed a game. That's what is keeping him from playing Phoenix defence. We talk about minutes piling up but excuse never missing a game as having no wear and tear on the body. You can't play every game without chilling.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Wouldn't it then not make much much more sense to play him 28-30minutes a game instead of having him lead the league in minutes?

[nykballa2k4]

I know they were down Spida, we were down Towns. However, us being up as we were most of the game lets me know that if we see them in the playoffs, with Brunson and Mitch back with their stamina, we will be good. Knicks in 5. Our twin towers are better.

The Knicks have to get past Boston to see the Cavs.....

Yeah, that's the problem now...

[3toheadmelo]

Mikal let Garland shoot 62% FG on him so we saw him get lit up by Tatum all season long and then by a small guard in Garland. If he can't lock up wings and fast guards, who tf can he even guard?

DeAndre Huntee

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

We’re cooked if that’s the best he can guard

[Gravy]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Knicks fans crossing Stan off their list of anyone but Thibs

[FrozenEnvelope]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Knicks fans crossing Stan off their list of anyone but Thibs

Hate to say it but SVG is spot on describing this board.

[Gravy]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Knicks fans crossing Stan off their list of anyone but Thibs

Hate to say it but SVG is spot on describing this board.

This has to be the hardest team to play or coach for. Its amazing we found a group that's been able to be successful these last 5 years. Leon needs to figure out how to add the right pieces to put them over the top

[god shammgod]

Precious is terrible lol

[prophet_of_rage]

Limit his minutes and duties. Us having traded 5 FRPs was a terrible trade any way we look at it. If he is not capable of being a good defender then you have to limit his responsibilities. We have JB and KAT as primary scorers able to get 25-30 points. OG seems to be more than willing to be that 3rd scorer. There are essentially two possibilities:

Bridges has declined at the age of 27 defensively in a way that is irrevesible. This would be kind of odd given that he literally has zero injury history.

Or Option B: It would be up to the coaching staff to figure out what is keeping him from playing Phoenix days type of defense.

He is older and has never missed a game. That's what is keeping him from playing Phoenix defence. We talk about minutes piling up but excuse never missing a game as having no wear and tear on the body. You can't play every game without chilling.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Wouldn't it then not make much much more sense to play him 28-30minutes a game instead of having him lead the league in minutes?

Sure but then Cam Payne plays more and Bridges doesn't necessarily give you more exertion. Mikal doesn't go hard and then peter out. He's always just chill.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I will address the 5 year record after you admit you were wrong about KAT working out at the 5 versus being at the 4

REDACTED had a 166-164 record with us, and you have yet to admit anything about him. Meanwhile, KAT is 1 win away from a season in which we'll have the highest win total in more than a decade while playing for a brain dead coach?







That 5 year record is nasty, I know it's impossible to defend

Damn so you still dying on that hill that KAT needs to be at the 5 even after he was exposed this year as the worst defensive C by far?


Only for 1 month for the 5 years thibs was here I thought we were contenders. So of course we're going to have a negative record against winning teams. That's common sense. Like are you really saying the teams that had Elfrid payton, Reggie Bullock, Nerlens Noel, Kemba Walker, Evan fournier and your favorite robot (that you were wrong about also) could've been championship contenders with a different coach? Lmao

Using hyperbole like that is when I know you're down bad, you can't be honest. Who said anything about being championship contenders the previous 4 years? We are 38 games under .500 with him as our coach against .500 or better teams, 38 games. The team you keep saying we should have ran it back with was 21-28 against teams that were .500 or better, so which is it, was that roster bad or is the coach bad, or some unseen force made them mid against decent teams?

That is the thing yall do, when you can't argue something, you have to use an extreme that nobody ever said. Nobody expected teams from the past to be able to beat contenders, but every single team he has coached since 2016 has a losing record against .500 or better teams, that includes the Wolves.

94-132 in 5 years is awful.

[Clyde_Style]

So Thibs has had bad coaching years before and bounced back from it (Remember the Kemba/ Fournier year when he was deservedly a couple of games away from getting fired) he bounced back from that year and it proved it to be a good decision to keep him. I think he’s earned an opportunity to re evaluate in the offseason and make adjustments. IF he is open minded to being flexible in his thinking. (YES, Thibs has been largely stubborn but he HAS shown some ability to adjust and grow as a coach through out his career)

This core has essentially only been together one year and if you look at the history of NBA champions, they typically need at least two years of playoff failures, growth, and continuity as a team before they breakthrough. Too often fans want to fire and trade everyone at the first sign of adversity. (Imagine if Denver or Boston would have blown it up a year before they broke through. Milwaukee fired Budenholzer after one bad year and that looks to be a bad decision as well)

So while I agree Thibs is the problem, if I were the front office, I would sit Thibs down in the off-season and tell him he’d have another year to show progress IF he were open to making adjustments, I think he’s earned that much given what he’s done for the franchise.

Not being contentious when I point it out again, but your answer undermines your conclusion.

Again, I agree the roster is mostly worthy of staying committed to.

However, I cannot for the life of me see how anyone can believe Thibs is going to evolve at this point. What you see is what you get. The man is a coaching fossil.

Giving him time will not result in anything than more time for the players with each other, but that is not a rationale that will result in them gelling into a contender if the coaching remains awful. And Thibs is pretty awful. So time to move on.

The idea the FO is going to tell Thibs how to coach is unrealistic. He'll do what he does and he will not take instruction from the FO. It is a fantasy to think Thibs will adjust his ways because the FO has different ideas about how to coach the roster. If the FO wants it to change they will have to replace him.

And Thibs needing more time to figure out rotations (combinations)? Come on man, get real.

How many years does it take to adjust to zones or a drop-defense that has mostly been a bust or to realize having too many poor shooters on the floor at the same time makes us sitting ducks?

You're talking about Thibs like he's some fresh-faced graduate of the assistant ranks ready to make his mark in the NBA. The guy rarely adjusts and our squad is almost never prepared with a game plan and the man does not diagram plays at crunch time. You're living in a dream world if you think giving Thibs more years will result in him finally getting it.

You should be a head coach then since you got it alll figured out

You have all the data on Thibs to know who he is.

Hoping he will change is not a plan. He is exactly who he is already and waiting a year will not yield any additional data, fresh insights or a different result.