Patrick Williams is having his worst year

[Jcool0]

Why do we keep sweating him? Think back to that 2020 draft and tell me who in it after #4 was worth the pick given the roster construction at the time.

Halliburton and Avdija possibly Vassell are the only other picks that possibly would’ve made sense at the time but I feel like drafting PAW was the swing that if you hit on it you’re set for the next roster wave which was life after Lavine/DDR which we are in now.

For all the flack and criticism he takes on this board he’s still probably top 6 in that draft and was drafted at #4 which when you look at it isn't that bad.

Absolutely deranged take. He's not even the best player from his draft class on this Bulls roster.

The 100% right pick was the consensus at the time in Deni. For whatever reason AK thought PW had this amazing upside and ignored all the red flags that were easy to see at Florida St. AK could of even taken Onyeka Okongwu who went 6th (currently averaging 13.4 points 9 rebounds 2.3 assists for Atlanta) and you wouldn't of needed to resign Vuc.

[Ebo21]

Why do we keep sweating him? Think back to that 2020 draft and tell me who in it after #4 was worth the pick given the roster construction at the time.

Halliburton and Avdija possibly Vassell are the only other picks that possibly would’ve made sense at the time but I feel like drafting PAW was the swing that if you hit on it you’re set for the next roster wave which was life after Lavine/DDR which we are in now.

For all the flack and criticism he takes on this board he’s still probably top 6 in that draft and was drafted at #4 which when you look at it isn't that bad.

Absolutely deranged take. He's not even the best player from his draft class on this Bulls roster.

You’re tripping if your think Jalen Smith is better than him. I get the knocks on his passive approach to the game but he clearly has more ability than J. Smith. My bigsst knock on PAW development is he has not been put in a position to be lead initiator of the offense. That to me would be more ideal for him than a 3D type. I’ve always thought his game could be like Clifford Robinson if used correctly.

[Ebo21]

Why do we keep sweating him? Think back to that 2020 draft and tell me who in it after #4 was worth the pick given the roster construction at the time.

Halliburton and Avdija possibly Vassell are the only other picks that possibly would’ve made sense at the time but I feel like drafting PAW was the swing that if you hit on it you’re set for the next roster wave which was life after Lavine/DDR which we are in now.

For all the flack and criticism he takes on this board he’s still probably top 6 in that draft and was drafted at #4 which when you look at it isn't that bad.

Absolutely deranged take. He's not even the best player from his draft class on this Bulls roster.

The 100% right pick was the consensus at the time in Deni. For whatever reason AK thought PW had this amazing upside and ignored all the red flags that were easy to see at Florida St. AK could of even taken Onyeka Okongwu who went 6th (currently averaging 13.4 points 9 rebounds 2.3 assists for Atlanta) and you wouldn't of needed to resign Vuc.

Deni is on his second team. I’m sure if Washington had given him the role he’s in currently in POR they would love to have him still on the team. Had we drafted him he wouldn’t have been given this type of opportunity to be a lead initiator and thus he probably wouldn’t be here at this time either.

[MrSparkle]

In his rookie season, there was an argument to be made for Patrick being a good #4 pick. Since then, this "raw project" has become worse and more raw, and less athletic and energetic... while several later picks have become all-star caliber (Haliburton, Maxey, Bane, now Deni). But never mind them: he ranks 45th out of 60 in VORP in the 2020 draft class. That stat suggests he should be out the league like Poku, Wiseman or Hayes.

The only hope for a trade is he's a 23yo "3D" player. I'd say that bundling him with Ayo is a best bet. Not endorsing any of these ideas, but here are some options:

Pat/Ayo (or Carter) for:

- Middleton (expiring 26)
- Claxton (overpaid, but rim protecting C - I'm really not into adding salary)
- Rozier (expiring 26.. maybe best to just buy him out given his giant decline and issues)

I see them patiently trying to rehab his game though. The alarming thing is he gets burned on any perimeter coverage. He can't really cover guards in iso anymore. This probably has to do with his injuries.

The Bulls seem to not discuss injuries much, but Pat's had a lot in the last year, including the mysterious foot surgery. I didn't know he needed a PRP injection for his knee 2 months ago, dealing with tendonitis. Maybe the idea is to keep him active in a small role, and have a strong rehab/conditioning program in the summer.

[Jcool0]

Why do we keep sweating him? Think back to that 2020 draft and tell me who in it after #4 was worth the pick given the roster construction at the time.

Halliburton and Avdija possibly Vassell are the only other picks that possibly would’ve made sense at the time but I feel like drafting PAW was the swing that if you hit on it you’re set for the next roster wave which was life after Lavine/DDR which we are in now.

For all the flack and criticism he takes on this board he’s still probably top 6 in that draft and was drafted at #4 which when you look at it isn't that bad.

Absolutely deranged take. He's not even the best player from his draft class on this Bulls roster.

You’re tripping if your think Jalen Smith is better than him. I get the knocks on his passive approach to the game but he clearly has more ability than J. Smith. My bigsst knock on PAW development is he has not been put in a position to be lead initiator of the offense. That to me would be more ideal for him than a 3D type. I’ve always thought his game could be like Clifford Robinson if used correctly.

Smith (2022-2025): BPM - +0.1 VORP - +2.2 ORtg - 121 DRtg - 114 PER - 18.3 Per 36 18.3 ppg & 11.9 rebounds

Williams (2022-2025): BPM - -2.2 VORP - -0.3 ORtg - 106 DRtg - 115 PER - 10.6 Per 36 12.9 ppg & 5.2 rebounds

[Jcool0]

Absolutely deranged take. He's not even the best player from his draft class on this Bulls roster.

The 100% right pick was the consensus at the time in Deni. For whatever reason AK thought PW had this amazing upside and ignored all the red flags that were easy to see at Florida St. AK could of even taken Onyeka Okongwu who went 6th (currently averaging 13.4 points 9 rebounds 2.3 assists for Atlanta) and you wouldn't of needed to resign Vuc.

Deni is on his second team. I’m sure if Washington had given him the role he’s in currently in POR they would love to have him still on the team. Had we drafted him he wouldn’t have been given this type of opportunity to be a lead initiator and thus he probably wouldn’t be here at this time either.

Deni last year on Washington 14.7/7.2/3.8. Finished the season (21 games): 17/9/4.

[Bulliever2020]

I have little to no faith in PW at this point but he didn't have any time last summer to work on his game with the foot injury. I'm going to give him one more chance to prove he has some amount of pride in his craft. If he can stay healthy going into the summer, I expect to see a better year from him next season. If not, him and the Bulls are screwed.

[Axl Rose]

Can you be a 3-D guy if you play below average D and in his best year was 133rd in 3PA? I feel like he was labeled a 3-D guy because Bulls fans weren't ready to say bust.

Him be labeled a 3&D always bothered me. A 3&D player needs to actually have the opposing defense react to their threat from 3. With Pat, teams lived with him hitting a few wide open threes and never adjusted their defense, making his 40% on 4 shots rather empty.

[Red Larrivee]

Why do we keep sweating him? Think back to that 2020 draft and tell me who in it after #4 was worth the pick given the roster construction at the time.

Halliburton and Avdija possibly Vassell are the only other picks that possibly would’ve made sense at the time but I feel like drafting PAW was the swing that if you hit on it you’re set for the next roster wave which was life after Lavine/DDR which we are in now.

For all the flack and criticism he takes on this board he’s still probably top 6 in that draft and was drafted at #4 which when you look at it isn't that bad.

Absolutely deranged take. He's not even the best player from his draft class on this Bulls roster.

The 100% right pick was the consensus at the time in Deni. For whatever reason AK thought PW had this amazing upside and ignored all the red flags that were easy to see at Florida St. AK could of even taken Onyeka Okongwu who went 6th (currently averaging 13.4 points 9 rebounds 2.3 assists for Atlanta) and you wouldn't of needed to resign Vuc.

There wasn't a consensus at 4, and Deni didn't even go until 9. Hell, at the time people thought Haliburton was too "safe" of a pick. Funny how that turned out. Pat hasn't panned out, but I don't think AK did something so inexplicable by selecting him. The only consensus at the time was that Edwards, Wiseman and Ball were above everyone else, though not necessarily superstar talents.

It was a bad draft on paper and COVID complicated it even more. There were a lot of whiffs in the lottery that year:

Wiseman
Williams
Okoro
Hayes
Toppin
Smith
Lewis
Nesmith

[Jcool0]

Absolutely deranged take. He's not even the best player from his draft class on this Bulls roster.

The 100% right pick was the consensus at the time in Deni. For whatever reason AK thought PW had this amazing upside and ignored all the red flags that were easy to see at Florida St. AK could of even taken Onyeka Okongwu who went 6th (currently averaging 13.4 points 9 rebounds 2.3 assists for Atlanta) and you wouldn't of needed to resign Vuc.

There wasn't a consensus at 4, and Deni didn't even go until 9. Hell, at the time people thought Haliburton was too "safe" of a pick. Funny how that turned out. Pat hasn't panned out, but I don't think AK did something so inexplicable by selecting him. The only consensus at the time was that Edwards, Wiseman and Ball were above everyone else, though not necessarily superstar talents.

It was a bad draft on paper and COVID complicated it even more. There were a lot of whiffs in the lottery that year:

Wiseman
Williams
Okoro
Hayes
Toppin
Smith
Lewis
Nesmith

No. 4 (Bulls): Deni Avdija (9)

Deni Avdija is likely going to be the first-ever Israeli player drafted in the lottery, and he’s looking more and more like a lock to the Bulls at No. 4. Nine of our 12 mocks see him going to Chicago, but if not, he’ll likely land in Cleveland at No. 5. The Ringer did have him at No. 2 to the Warriors, but they’ve changed their thinking now, too, and have him at No. 5.

https://www.nba.com/news/2020-consensus-mock-draft

[The Box Office]

Pat Williams is on the bench now, yes?

[panthermark]

You’re tripping if your think Jalen Smith is better than him. I get the knocks on his passive approach to the game but he clearly has more ability than J. Smith. My bigsst knock on PAW development is he has not been put in a position to be lead initiator of the offense. That to me would be more ideal for him than a 3D type. I’ve always thought his game could be like Clifford Robinson if used correctly.

I thought we were done with the "if we just change the team by moving Zach and DD, he will be good" talk.

He can't dribble, he can't create for himself or anyone else on his own, he does not have exceptional vision, and he has a slow processor.

Uncle Cliffy was a 6'10" do it all SF/PF/C that was a 20 ppg scorer, an All-Star, a 6th man of the year, and an All-Defensive player.

P-Won't is a 6'7" do nothing that has no advantage on anyone at any position.

[Red Larrivee]

The 100% right pick was the consensus at the time in Deni. For whatever reason AK thought PW had this amazing upside and ignored all the red flags that were easy to see at Florida St. AK could of even taken Onyeka Okongwu who went 6th (currently averaging 13.4 points 9 rebounds 2.3 assists for Atlanta) and you wouldn't of needed to resign Vuc.

There wasn't a consensus at 4, and Deni didn't even go until 9. Hell, at the time people thought Haliburton was too "safe" of a pick. Funny how that turned out. Pat hasn't panned out, but I don't think AK did something so inexplicable by selecting him. The only consensus at the time was that Edwards, Wiseman and Ball were above everyone else, though not necessarily superstar talents.

It was a bad draft on paper and COVID complicated it even more. There were a lot of whiffs in the lottery that year:

Wiseman
Williams
Okoro
Hayes
Toppin
Smith
Lewis
Nesmith

No. 4 (Bulls): Deni Avdija (9)

Deni Avdija is likely going to be the first-ever Israeli player drafted in the lottery, and he’s looking more and more like a lock to the Bulls at No. 4. Nine of our 12 mocks see him going to Chicago, but if not, he’ll likely land in Cleveland at No. 5. The Ringer did have him at No. 2 to the Warriors, but they’ve changed their thinking now, too, and have him at No. 5.

https://www.nba.com/news/2020-consensus-mock-draft

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/2200224/2020/11/17/nba-draft-big-board/

Okongwu was 4 on this one. In your link, it also notes that Pat was a big riser in the draft process and the Pistons were high on him at 7. After 3, the order was completely up in the air. I think if Deni were the consensus, he's not dropping to 9 inexplicably.

Either way, it was a really weird draft filled with a ton of misses.

[GoBlue72391]

Why do we keep sweating him? Think back to that 2020 draft and tell me who in it after #4 was worth the pick given the roster construction at the time.

Halliburton and Avdija possibly Vassell are the only other picks that possibly would’ve made sense at the time but I feel like drafting PAW was the swing that if you hit on it you’re set for the next roster wave which was life after Lavine/DDR which we are in now.

For all the flack and criticism he takes on this board he’s still probably top 6 in that draft and was drafted at #4 which when you look at it isn't that bad.

Absolutely deranged take. He's not even the best player from his draft class on this Bulls roster.

You’re tripping if your think Jalen Smith is better than him. I get the knocks on his passive approach to the game but he clearly has more ability than J. Smith. My bigsst knock on PAW development is he has not been put in a position to be lead initiator of the offense. That to me would be more ideal for him than a 3D type. I’ve always thought his game could be like Clifford Robinson if used correctly.

Jalen Smith is miles better than Pat, it's wild to think otherwise. The stats support this, the eye test supports this. What do you have to support your outrageous claim?

If I'm understanding you correctly, you want a guy who cannot dribble a basketball to be the lead initiator? A guy who has never averaged more than 2.8 assists per 36 minutes?

You've scrambled my brain.

[Jcool0]

There wasn't a consensus at 4, and Deni didn't even go until 9. Hell, at the time people thought Haliburton was too "safe" of a pick. Funny how that turned out. Pat hasn't panned out, but I don't think AK did something so inexplicable by selecting him. The only consensus at the time was that Edwards, Wiseman and Ball were above everyone else, though not necessarily superstar talents.

It was a bad draft on paper and COVID complicated it even more. There were a lot of whiffs in the lottery that year:

Wiseman
Williams
Okoro
Hayes
Toppin
Smith
Lewis
Nesmith

No. 4 (Bulls): Deni Avdija (9)

Deni Avdija is likely going to be the first-ever Israeli player drafted in the lottery, and he’s looking more and more like a lock to the Bulls at No. 4. Nine of our 12 mocks see him going to Chicago, but if not, he’ll likely land in Cleveland at No. 5. The Ringer did have him at No. 2 to the Warriors, but they’ve changed their thinking now, too, and have him at No. 5.

https://www.nba.com/news/2020-consensus-mock-draft

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/2200224/2020/11/17/nba-draft-big-board/

Okongwu was 4 on this one. In your link, it also notes that Pat was a big riser in the draft process and the Pistons were high on him at 7. After 3, the order was completely up in the air. I think if Deni were the consensus, he's not dropping to 9 inexplicably.

Either way, it was a really weird draft filled with a ton of misses.

You do know what consensus means? "a general agreement or a shared opinion among a group of people. It's not necessarily unanimous agreement" So you finding a random mock with a different player going #4 doesn't change anything. And calling it a weird draft doesn't change anything either. Most draft people had Deni at #4 this year Deni is playing like an All Star and Williams is not. Those are the facts. And FWIW every draft has misses its not unique to this draft. Also if you want look at draft profiles of Williams you will see pretty most of his NBA problems were there in college.

[sco]

Absolutely deranged take. He's not even the best player from his draft class on this Bulls roster.

You’re tripping if your think Jalen Smith is better than him. I get the knocks on his passive approach to the game but he clearly has more ability than J. Smith. My bigsst knock on PAW development is he has not been put in a position to be lead initiator of the offense. That to me would be more ideal for him than a 3D type. I’ve always thought his game could be like Clifford Robinson if used correctly.

Jalen Smith is miles better than Pat, it's wild to think otherwise. The stats support this, the eye test supports this. What do you have to support your outrageous claim?

If I'm understanding you correctly, you want a guy who cannot dribble a basketball to be the lead initiator? A guy who has never averaged more than 2.8 assists per 36 minutes?

You've scrambled my brain.

I'm with you on this. Here's the problem with Pat. He needs the ball in his hands to impact the game. Smith, Huerter, Ball, and Phillips do not.

[Chi town]

You’re tripping if your think Jalen Smith is better than him. I get the knocks on his passive approach to the game but he clearly has more ability than J. Smith. My bigsst knock on PAW development is he has not been put in a position to be lead initiator of the offense. That to me would be more ideal for him than a 3D type. I’ve always thought his game could be like Clifford Robinson if used correctly.

I thought we were done with the "if we just change the team by moving Zach and DD, he will be good" talk.

He can't dribble, he can't create for himself or anyone else on his own, he does not have exceptional vision, and he has a slow processor.

Uncle Cliffy was a 6'10" do it all SF/PF/C that was a 20 ppg scorer, an All-Star, a 6th man of the year, and an All-Defensive player.

P-Won't is a 6'7" do nothing that has no advantage on anyone at any position.

This.

The most we can hope for is health and that 3ball coming back for a trade to get him off the books.

[Chi town]

Absolutely deranged take. He's not even the best player from his draft class on this Bulls roster.

You’re tripping if your think Jalen Smith is better than him. I get the knocks on his passive approach to the game but he clearly has more ability than J. Smith. My bigsst knock on PAW development is he has not been put in a position to be lead initiator of the offense. That to me would be more ideal for him than a 3D type. I’ve always thought his game could be like Clifford Robinson if used correctly.

Jalen Smith is miles better than Pat, it's wild to think otherwise. The stats support this, the eye test supports this. What do you have to support your outrageous claim?

If I'm understanding you correctly, you want a guy who cannot dribble a basketball to be the lead initiator? A guy who has never averaged more than 2.8 assists per 36 minutes?

You've scrambled my brain.

I think we will see Smith play over Pat if we get the Cavs series.

[Ballerkingn23]

Unlike Coby who I defended and was never a fan of trading, I can't say I feel the same about Pat. I just don't see anything that is eye catching to make me say we should keep him. I saw something in Coby why I was always pro keep Coby through his struggles. Pat on the other hand shows nothing anymore and therefore it's impossible for me to say he's worth keeping and investing a lot of faith in at this point to turn things around.

Now can he have a strong summer and comeback better than ever, idk but stranger things have happened. Still, I highly doubt he will and he will ever live up to his selection and this contract. So hopefully AK can find a sucker before it's too late.

Its real sad and unfortunate too, because Pat seems like a good kid. He just doesn't have it between the ears to put it all together.

[GoBlue72391]

You’re tripping if your think Jalen Smith is better than him. I get the knocks on his passive approach to the game but he clearly has more ability than J. Smith. My bigsst knock on PAW development is he has not been put in a position to be lead initiator of the offense. That to me would be more ideal for him than a 3D type. I’ve always thought his game could be like Clifford Robinson if used correctly.

Jalen Smith is miles better than Pat, it's wild to think otherwise. The stats support this, the eye test supports this. What do you have to support your outrageous claim?

If I'm understanding you correctly, you want a guy who cannot dribble a basketball to be the lead initiator? A guy who has never averaged more than 2.8 assists per 36 minutes?

You've scrambled my brain.

I'm with you on this. Here's the problem with Pat. He needs the ball in his hands to impact the game. Smith, Huerter, Ball, and Phillips do not.

Oh, he definitely impacts the game when he has the ball in his hands, just not the way anyone wants.