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2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1541 » by Frank Lee » Sun Apr 13, 2025 5:45 pm

SkyBill40 wrote:Booker should be playing. He made comments the other day about the importance of doing so for the sake of the fans, yet he is apparently not suiting up. Even if he's being held out by Budenholzer or the front office, he should be demanding to play at least part of the game, else he looks like a hypocrite of the highest order.

This is an awful look for the team as a whole and a pretty bad one for Booker since we don't know who is holding him out.

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Get one last jab in eh Sky? Christ…. It’s an away game. Dredging up hate dude. He owes nothing to sac town fans. Pizz on him anyway you can.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1542 » by Saberestar » Sun Apr 13, 2025 6:01 pm

SkyBill40 wrote:Booker should be playing. He made comments the other day about the importance of doing so for the sake of the fans, yet he is apparently not suiting up. Even if he's being held out by Budenholzer or the front office, he should be demanding to play at least part of the game, else he looks like a hypocrite of the highest order.

This is an awful look for the team as a whole and a pretty bad one for Booker since we don't know who is holding him out.

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It's an away game and the last game of the season with nothing in play.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1543 » by BobbieL » Sun Apr 13, 2025 6:02 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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If true, this would speak to a completely broken culture in need of reconstruction from the foundation up with strong emphasis on competitive tenacity, toughness, and professionalism/ sense of urgency.


Interesting theory
But I want to blow the whole team up - so its just not Booker and Durant
Allen, O'Neal -- traded
Plumlee, Morris and Tyus Jones -- keep walking

Beal -- probably best to move on from him

As for Budenholzer getting fired - whatever
Jones needs to be fired too


I no longer think we're blowing the team up. Count me out on trading both Booker+KD. Just don't see Ishbia switching things up that strongly and that quickly.

My **hope** now is just for Booker to go and for them to ride out Beal's contract. Bigger haul and KD+Beal only need to be here for a cpl years.

If it's Durant that goes, they need to handle things very carefully.


I agree - if trading only of the two, its Booker as he can get so much more back

I have no idea what Ishbia will do but my guess, its higher odds he extends Durant , meaning just going all in again but stretching Beal
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1544 » by Sunsdeuce » Sun Apr 13, 2025 6:30 pm

SkyBill40 wrote:Booker should be playing. He made comments the other day about the importance of doing so for the sake of the fans, yet he is apparently not suiting up. Even if he's being held out by Budenholzer or the front office, he should be demanding to play at least part of the game, else he looks like a hypocrite of the highest order.

This is an awful look for the team as a whole and a pretty bad one for Booker since we don't know who is holding him out.

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Thank you. Booker is the culture problem here that many deflect with excuses like “it’s an away game”. Well guess what many military like me live/lived in many cities so “away games” were the only time we could see our team.

Booker has been childish the most I have ever witnessed in his career with this years team. From his lack of self reflection for not Making the all-star team to those hypocritical comments you mentioned. And let’s be honest, he just went through the motions this year. He played with zero passion or care on the court as long as he bolstered his personal stats. But hey at least he hung out of people who have low riders in his off time so he’s definitely connecting with the community.

FYI: an away game that means nothing to a millionaire basketball player could mean the world and a lifetime experience to a parent who saved up months or a year to take their kid to see their favorite player play just one time in their life.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1545 » by SkyBill40 » Sun Apr 13, 2025 6:57 pm

Frank Lee wrote:
SkyBill40 wrote:Booker should be playing. He made comments the other day about the importance of doing so for the sake of the fans, yet he is apparently not suiting up. Even if he's being held out by Budenholzer or the front office, he should be demanding to play at least part of the game, else he looks like a hypocrite of the highest order.

This is an awful look for the team as a whole and a pretty bad one for Booker since we don't know who is holding him out.

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Get one last jab in eh Sky? Christ…. It’s an away game. Dredging up hate dude. He owes nothing to sac town fans. Pizz on him anyway you can.


Facts are facts. He made the statement and he should own it. If he's being held out by the team, whatever. But he, as the franchise player and face of the franchise, should demand to play. It's not about SAC fans and never was.

I like Booker, but this is a bad look for what's amounted to a poor season due to a multitude of reasons.

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1546 » by Sunsdeuce » Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:04 pm

SkyBill40 wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:
SkyBill40 wrote:Booker should be playing. He made comments the other day about the importance of doing so for the sake of the fans, yet he is apparently not suiting up. Even if he's being held out by Budenholzer or the front office, he should be demanding to play at least part of the game, else he looks like a hypocrite of the highest order.

This is an awful look for the team as a whole and a pretty bad one for Booker since we don't know who is holding him out.

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Get one last jab in eh Sky? Christ…. It’s an away game. Dredging up hate dude. He owes nothing to sac town fans. Pizz on him anyway you can.


Facts are facts. He made the statement and he should own it. If he's being held out by the team, whatever. But he, as the franchise player and face of the franchise, should demand to play. It's not about SAC fans and never was.

I like Booker, but this is a bad look for what's amounted to a poor season due to a multitude of reasons.

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Amen! Bookers antics are an insult to me and other fans. May not be to some fans but they are to me.

Basketball players get half a year off and now they even get “rest” days off and barely play back to backs. The NBAs biggest problem is that it accommodated every thing for the players and made no accommodations to the people who are responsible for why the NBA even exists….the fans.

NBA viewership peaked in 1998 (30 million tuned in to watch the finals). And it’s been a slow death since (this year has been a huge decrease). And Adam Silver is just making crap worse. Point is, Booker thinks more highly of himself than the game itself. That’s when you know it’s time to move on!
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1547 » by Puff » Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:16 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:Kings are favored by 15.5 today. I don't bet anymore, but that seems absurd it's that high.

Also Memphis is favored over Dallas but they are resting like their top 10 players or something. Seems like Dallas should win. They have incentive too, because if they win and the Kings lose, they get HCA in the play in.

KD, Booker, Beal and Richards out. That's why they are favored by that much.


Oh, I figured Booker would want to play unless he's injured.


Why should he?

Everyone wants to trade his lousy azz and keep Bradley fcking Beal. That is the answer to all our problems.

What a wonderful off season this is going to be. We trade our two best players for a slew of back ups and draft picks while keeping Bradley Beal.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1548 » by bwgood77 » Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:20 pm

Puff wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:KD, Booker, Beal and Richards out. That's why they are favored by that much.


Oh, I figured Booker would want to play unless he's injured.


Why should he?

Everyone wants to trade his lousy azz and keep Bradley fcking Beal. That is the answer to all our problems.

What a wonderful off season this is going to be. We trade our two best players for a slew of back ups and draft picks while keeping Bradley Beal.


For stats. Yeah, hopefully he gets traded. I've head enough of watching him take us nowhere and he's the only way we don't toil in terribleness for years, buy kicking a rebuild quickly.

But if we keep him and retool around him people will be excited in the offseason and for about 20 games.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1549 » by Sunsdeuce » Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:22 pm

Puff wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:KD, Booker, Beal and Richards out. That's why they are favored by that much.


Oh, I figured Booker would want to play unless he's injured.


Why should he?

Everyone wants to trade his lousy azz and keep Bradley fcking Beal. That is the answer to all our problems.

What a wonderful off season this is going to be. We trade our two best players for a slew of back ups and draft picks while keeping Bradley Beal.


Why you ask? Because he’s being paid to play. Unless he signed a contract to not play games that none of us were aware of? NBA players always claim their sport is the same as a real job. So put their money where their mouth is.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1550 » by BobbieL » Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:51 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Puff wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Oh, I figured Booker would want to play unless he's injured.


Why should he?

Everyone wants to trade his lousy azz and keep Bradley fcking Beal. That is the answer to all our problems.

What a wonderful off season this is going to be. We trade our two best players for a slew of back ups and draft picks while keeping Bradley Beal.


For stats. Yeah, hopefully he gets traded. I've head enough of watching him take us nowhere and he's the only way we don't toil in terribleness for years, buy kicking a rebuild quickly.

But if we keep him and retool around him people will be excited in the offseason and for about 20 games.


Pretty much. They will be happy to have DBook until the got 32-50 and have less trade value than this summer
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1551 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Apr 13, 2025 8:00 pm

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1552 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Apr 13, 2025 8:05 pm

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


I'd happily take both Griffin and Green back to replace James Jones and Budenholzer.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1553 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Apr 13, 2025 8:12 pm

BobbieL wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


Keith Smith breaks down the options around Beal perfectly! Everyone should read this article for much better clarity!


Yeah, I had read earlier that we can't stretch him because it would be over the 15% of total cap that you are allowd to stretch (per year).

So it's either trade (dumb if have to attach picks and would have to take back a ton of salary anyway), waive (dumb because you still have the cap hit on the books), or try to buy out (I doubt if he takes much of a discount and you still have the cap hit).


the most logical is to keep Beal and see if there is a market in the summer of 2026
but if Booker is traded and Beal is kept, the fan base will revolt - well a part of them will thinking "how can we trade Dbook?"


If KD and Booker are traded, Beal won't want to stay anyways then. And then we could pursue a proper rebuild, reconstruction.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1554 » by Frank Lee » Sun Apr 13, 2025 8:30 pm

What a caustic bunch y’all have become. Suppose he plays in this meaningless game and blows out his knee… how then do you trade him? Trivial bttchin at its finest.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1555 » by BobbieL » Sun Apr 13, 2025 8:54 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


I'd happily take both Griffin and Green back to replace James Jones and Budenholzer.


I still think I prefer Bob Myers as the top GM candidate if jones is fired

Ishbia will want a splash I think

Granted … who knows who will want to work for Ishbia - especially if he goes to coach 4
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1556 » by Djedefre » Sun Apr 13, 2025 9:04 pm

Hurley is reportedly available, Nuggets are talking to him. Why don't we hire a real basketball mind, for once. Don't hit me with Willie Green or dubious assistants of Bud's who know the system. Let's do a proper job this time, for a change.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1557 » by Calvin Klein » Sun Apr 13, 2025 9:08 pm

If Booker played and scored 50 points in this game imagine the things people would be saying :lol:

relax. NOBODY is playing their main guys unless the game means something.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1558 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Apr 13, 2025 9:10 pm

Frank Lee wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Do you know what our salary commitments in 2026-27 are ghost? How about next yr?

Y’all are infatuated with cap space, when there are only 2-3 teams that ever have any. The key is to be under and stay under the second apron while having a range of salaries to deal. Look how challenging it is to move a 50 mill contract. Turns into a 4-5 for one transaction. This cba has created many top heavy teams with overpaid players.

Who was the last 40million $ free agent signing using cap space? Seems most big ticket player acquisitions are trades and sign and trades. Cap space is highly over rated. But tax/apron restrictions have to be strategically considered.



Well, we're at $218 million with only 10 total players under contract next season, and $152 million in 26-27 with only 6 total players under contract.

And obviously we'll have to fill out our rosters regardless to get to the minimum required 15 players baseline. So currently without cap flexibility and legitimate mechanisms for that, we're otherwise limited to utilizing the draft And vet minimums to try and reduce long term payroll.

This is why the gest teams prioritize using the draft to balance our their rosters financially and picks are premium currency for trades, etc. which obviously again won't make us meadurably better competitively even with Booker.

If people are truly interested in trying to keep Booker and be even remotely competitive / better than we currently are going forward, then the most logical and responsible thing we could do is to hold onto Beal for another season so he can become a valuable gigantic expiring trade asset!!

Or else letting him expire so we can utilize that near $60 million in the summer of 27 to either sign one of those big names, or else sign multiple high end starters like many of the names listed in free agency.

I understand that it's rare for star players or max players to actually reach free agency, but there's a multitude of top tier star, superstar, franchise cornerstone talent and also high end impact starters and quality rotation options available that would easily be much better than vet MIN options or whatever we currently have on the roster.

And the most recent max level players signed in unrestricted free agency were....................

Paul George- Signed with 76ers for last summer 2024-25 for close to $ 49 million annually.

- Kwahi Leonard signed with the Clippers in 2019 for close to 44 million annually.

- Lebron in 2018, left the Cavs as an unrestricted free agent to join the Lakers signing a 4 yr 154 million deal for close to $38 million annually. Not quite 40 million, but close enough.

But sure, I get your point and understand that it's somewgar rare for star players/ max players to actually reach unrestricted free agency. Also that most are acquired via trades!

So understanding that factor being prominent, and knowing that obviously we don't have the assets or picks to actually make those kind of trades for a star player now (Unless you're willing to change position on trading Booker)???

How do we accomplish trading for another big name option without picks, cap space to aggregate contracts, (or to absorb a big incoming contract), or legitimately desirable assets that we're willing to part with??

What's your plan here? Because buying out Beal would leave us with an additional $ 22- 25 million ( * including Little's buyout money too) that would restrict our cap flexibility for the next 5-6 years going forward even with Beal off of our roster.

Please just look again at the long list of names from that list and understand that because Ishbia gave away all of our tradable assets ( aside from KD and Booker), our best shot at avoiding the dreaded 10 yr plus long rebuild is to utilize massive cap space in a very loaded 27' free agency to add the greatest overall depth and talent around Booker!

In the meantime, the smartest strategy we could use is to very simply trade KD for young, uber athletic COST CONTROLLED TALENT, and also quality impact players and expirings to begin setting up a target date of the summer of 27 with Beal then off our books completely!

And having a significant youth infusion/ athletic talent upgrade around Booker and also key vets in place and a better fitting roster and plenty of cap space to add another star player or high impact free agent or 2-3 maybe! Be loaded with depth, athleticism, and flexibility and assets around Booker rather than having to enter a decade long rebuild with nothing!!



So 3 players in the past 7 yrs were signed for near max deals? And all three chose their destinations
already agreed that it's rare for max/ star players to reach free agency. And honestly, doesn'tevery free agent choose their next destination by virtue of being a free agent and choosing who they'll sign with?

Seems your grand plan still involves trading Beal, pretending he is some asset due to being a large expiring deal. You think he’ll ok it? And Shttt out is still shttt in. IF he agrees to go. It stands to reason, 50 mill of salary is coming back to Phnx if he is dealt in his final yr. You just can’t declare him an asset.

No it actually doesn't because he'd be off the books in the summer of 27 when all those big names and quality unrestricted free agents would be available.

But even if we had an intent to trade him before that summer ( which would be stupid), he'd be in this final year of his deal and much more agreeable to a trade he could showcase himself to his next team or for his next contract! So yes, I'd believe he'd agree to a trade at that point.

Also, Yes he'd be viewed as an asset aw a massive expiring in that he could help 2nd apron teams or cash strapped teams pivot significantly away from this punitive/ restrictive CBA.

So there's obvious value in his ability to generate significant cap flexibility to any recieving team. Also consider that just because he may be a bad fit with us doesn't mean he'd be that to another team.


So… simple question. This strategy, just absorbing Beal’s deal buy out or keeping him, when will the Suns be able to sign $35-40 million worth of Free Agents? You know, like two to three good contributing players? Signing them out right. No trades involved. Because that’s what you are banging for right?

Again, quite simply, the Suns would be able to sign $35-40 million dollar free agents the summer of 27 ( right after the 26 season concludes) when Beals' 57 million falls off our books.

And with the cap space we could generate from this strategy,
we could legitimately sign at least one other big name free agent, and around 2-3 high quality rotation options too! And yes, that would be the plan! No trades needed as we don't really have any assets to accomplish those anyways.


What yr will that be? 27-28? And in the mean time we fill in the roster with minimum deals and lousy late picks? That’s semi ok if we had our picks. Subtle tank again. we know different.

It's actually not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be though man!
Because in the meantime, the KD trade would be utilized to fill that next two seasons gap with solid contributory players, picks, etc.

And if done correctly, we'd still have mechanisms to fall under the 2nd apron post KD trade with all that money broken up into smaller contracts, also the picks would be better than lousy late picks because the majority of interested teams currently carry higher picks in the late lotto to mid teens or early 20s at worst!

But even then, we've done better identifying impact talent into the late first and even 2nd rounds as evidenced by Camara, Dunn and Ighodaro. So there's definitive reason for optimism here.

So again if done at all well, the cumulative value should give us an enhanced trajectory baseline of at least making the playoffs as a 6-8 seed maybe even slightly better over the next two years.



Reality says …

Booker will not be shopped
Durant is likely traded
Beal is 100% gone
The front office prefers not to blow it up

This is what was said, and confirmed by the few insiders. Y’all need to come to terms with that. Quit the ‘if I were king’ driveling

It’s not pretty and it’s a daunting task to improve. Seems the first order is to get under and stay under the second apron. I don’t have a plan…I just try to figure out what theirs is………… but that seems to be the path the braincrust is taking.

All things we already know too that are fairly obvious and only further legitimize their severe delusions regarding our competitive trajectory and their inability/ unwillingness to accept reality of the situation.

But operating under those unfavorable conditions, this is the most logical and quickest pathway back to expedited relevance sidestepping our inevitable full rebuild for at least another few years!


So….

They’ll use the MLE (5.6 mil) hopefully get an upcoming player (Yabasule comes to mind, but he’ll likely remain in Philly) you get someone like that, a second contract dude who needs playing time that hopefully you will retain. And you do it again next yr.

Trade one of Oneal or Allen + a pick.
Trade some of the capital gleaned from a Durant deal. It’s almost certain to be a three teamer. Or at least a two parter. I do not expect nearly the return you fanatics do.
Sign Gillespie
May be use Okogie TE… it’s only 3+ mill…. But that could land Isaiah Collier or the likes.
We sorely need an upgrade at PG. Looks like we are destined for DLo. May be Carter comes back… . Smart should be available with the recent play of Carrington, but he might be gassed. Who knows? But Jones ain’t it, tho I think he could be a sign and trade asset.

They have to get under that second apron tho.

it does seems inevitable that Book will eventually want out. Cant blame him. He and Durant are the only two players from this roster that would start on other teams. What a bad hand he was dealt. The face of arguably the most dysfunctional franchise in the league.

Reflecting upon those moves you've offered man, To what end are we pursuing these moves exactly? Does a mediocre midleveloption or bench player and some vet minimum signings help carry us into the playoffs when KD and Booker couldn't?

Lesser talent equals lesser outcome unless outworkedby the cumulative by committee efforts outperform expectations. The moves that we choose to make must be bigger, more measurable/ impactful than just the usual fringe bottom barrel strategic signings, and they just actually offer measurable impact versatility to affect real competitive change.


Trading KD for a cumulative of younger athletic cost controlled players and cumulative of smaller cheaper contracts also accomplishes the goal off getting below the 2nd apron too.

And yes, Booker will inevitably ask out from this complete sh**show! That's why it's highly neglible at best to hold onto him just to be severely mediocre while achieving nothing really.


Actually I do have a plan…. Not to support this Azzhat owner who wrecked this team and stole a valuable source of entertainment from us. Sadly, that’s my reality.


That's all our realities man! So take solace in knowing that misery loves company! And at least you're not suffering alone through this!
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1559 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Apr 13, 2025 9:19 pm

Djedefre wrote:Hurley is reportedly available, Nuggets are talking to him. Why don't we hire a real basketball mind, for once. Don't hit me with Willie Green or dubious assistants of Bud's who know the system. Let's do a proper job this time, for a change.


I'd love Hurley, but the Keoenkes' have been talking to him for a hot minute now already indicating this was probably somewhat planned before they ever fired Maline. So the odds of him coming here over a head coaching job there with Jokic is just highly unlikely!

I'd love to get Villanova's old coach Jay Wright or Sergio Scariola ( most winningest coach in FIBA history) for our next coach. But there should be interesting options regardless! :nod:
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1560 » by Djedefre » Sun Apr 13, 2025 9:39 pm

If i recall correctly, Wright wasn't interested in resuming his coaching career. Maybe he'd be willing to reconsider for a hefty sum but i believe it is too much of an enterprise at his age. I was strongly advocating for him before we hired Monty, now i'm not so sure bringing him will do the wonders with our roster completely reset. It appears we need a bit younger coach, more suited to gradually building a contender. I mean Jay has more basketball in his little finger than any of the guys that were mentioned as suns targets for the last x years, but i'm afraid timing is not ideal. Nevertheless, i'd much rather take a shot with him than 90% of coaching frauds fluctuating in the NBA right now.

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