2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

That post might be the longest ever written here

Frank poked the bear. He should know better.

[Calvin Klein]

Ghost , you need a post and word limit. My gawd. You love a long winded argument and are never wrong. Two great qualities. Eh? The length you go defending ‘your magical cap space plan, is disturbing. Even when you timidly take it to the big board, people shy away from engagement just from the insane volume. Fccck, you can’t even acknowledge that the front office has pretty clearly stated a different path, yet you incessantly blow your whimsical whistle with far fetched blow it up 5 sided trades, second round sleepers and this ‘boy you just wait till 27-28 when we sign our franchise saving free agents’. Like that will somehow will launch us into contention? Yup, everyone is stupid that doesn’t see the wisdom in gutting this team for draft picks and cap space. Because ohhh there is a crime for being middle ranked team next yr with Booker. And he needs to go now because his value is peaking? Barring injury, Book isn’t going to lose any value anytime soon. And there was a time when people wanted to play with him.

Shttt, all I have proposed is stretching Beal to get and stay under the second apron, giving Phnx a lot more flexibility. And a measly 19 million ticked off in cap space ….3 yrs from now when the cap amount will have increased by more than that amount. Keep in mind, your wonder plan clips Phnx for 50 mill in 25/26 and 26/27…… so you can load up on your second rounders and minimum one yr deals for the next two yrs. Oh but wait, may be we can trade Beal because he will be a massive expiring. Why even keep Beal if you are booting Book out the door?

I don’t care so much as what they do. But I think I can see their path or at least one that follows all that they have said so far. It’s just a shame that 3 or 4 fn know it all’s have hijacked these threads with the same old spew over and over and can do nothing but eye poke and demean alternative thoughts, even when they parallel what has been outlined in the media.

The way I see, I’m done commenting on your maniacal input here. There is no point. You are a fn genius GM. Gawd, you have even taken possession of this team with your ‘I’ would do this and ‘I’ would do that rhetoric.

This site is a reflection of this season. This might be an abrasive response to your bomb of red letter rebuttals… but Christ, just give it rest. Stretching Beal is no where near the top of problems with this organization.
I’m outta here

Lol! You're last post that I responded to was longer than my supposed bomb of red letters, man! And I've never told anyone or claimed to be "never wrong." Just like everyone else here, I share my opinions and perspectives on our various situations, which I'm obviously passionate about. And yes, I defend my views as I see them just like anyone else is free to do also! And what you sarcastically point out with your usual veiled barbs and clever backhanded compliments as "two great qualities" is your perogative! Are those considered "great qualities" in the interest of open dialogue on a discussion board, man?

I defend what I believe to be true and accurate, but when/if someone can actually present a legitimate counterpoint to my perspective, I am willing to consider it. Absent that, I stand by my convictions. Now, could I be wrong about my views? absolutely! And obviously, I'm wrong about as much as I'm right.. But so far, the very obvious evidence points to the contrary on this premise. And a consensus perspective or hive mentality is not required towards objective assessments, man. Also, there's nothing magical about my plan for utilizing cap space, as every team actually chooses to do this at some point each season with respect to their individual situation.

And LOL at the timidly take it to the trade board comment on the trade board as all you have to do is look and you'll see that I have no issues with sharing my opinion there if I find an example that is highly oppositional to our teams' best interests. By the way, how many of your ideas or views have you shared on there in equity man? I'm only asking because I don't think I've ever seen you post on there, if maybe more than once? But then again, I could be wrong!...................... See, I can only admit that possibility without too much emotional duress! Maybe you've missed it or just haven't been paying attention much. But I've acknowledged the front office as having a clearly stated different path, and then stated how idiotic, delusional, shortsighted, and counterproductive to our long-term viability/ sustainability it is!

And as for my trades, whether or not people see them as "far-fetched" or whimsical is completely subjective. Also, my trades are only as complex as our very restrictive situation dictates. But I'll ask again, If you happen to have any semblance of a legitimately more simplified solution that can fix things, or at least put us on a more beneficial path, then please feel free to offer it. And maybe you still can't fully comprehend the measure we're restricted by yet, but absent actual trade assets, the ability to aggregate 1st round picks, or even a balanced roster financially, 2nd round picks become a critical conduit for cost-effective depth acquisition under the 2nd apron. And having up to two max salary slots available in the summer of 27' or even massive cap space to sign multiple higher tier free agents for legitimate depth will expedite our competitive resurgence much faster
than carrying 24-25 million in dead cap restricting our flexibility for thee next half decade while only beeeing ableee to add maybe 1 mediocre midlevel option and a bunch of vet mins again. Because clearly, filling out our bench majority with vet-min retreads has really paid off for us over the past couple of seasons.

And LOL at gutting our team for draft picks and cap space! Obviously, we'd be getting players back in the deal, and sorry if you still don't recognize the value of having draft picks man. Either as premium currency in trades or as a legit mechanism to add cost-controlled positional depth pieces/ trade assets/ core pieces to balance out our very top-heavy roster. Because we've been so very successful without having picks or young players .....right?? And you actually believe that we'd somehow miraculously become a midranked team next year when even with having BOTH KD and Booker, we can't even make the play in!! We'd be giving up an elite talent in KD, almost 27 points a game, and a player that offers elite lateral gravity to get Booker open, but somehow we get much more competitive even with less talent, scoring/ production. And no elite player to pull doubleee and triple teams off Booker. Do you remember how well he handled those double and triple teams, man?

But adding a mid-level option and more vet mins should be the solution .........right?? And yes, Booker's value will absolutely depreciate the more he ages, the closer he gets to the wrong side of 30. Also, as his 8% contractual increases hit too, that'll also offset his value going forward unless he somehow gets much better as he gets older. But again, I might be wrong! Just show me any legitimate examples of NBA players who have gotten better with age around 30 years old or older and increased their trade value. Any players' bookers' age or older??? This shouldn't be at all controversial man. This is basic depreciation! All players are subject to it! That's why the saying.... "Father time is undefeated" is so prevalent.

And you do understand that we can't even stretch Beal unless he 1st agrees to a 15% buyout reduction (= $17-18 million) just to make it legal to stretch him under the conditions of this CBA. Do you really think he'll just agree to give that money away so we can dump him? And even after that, IF he somehow miraculously agrees to do that (which makes absolutely no sense in his situation), we'd still be on the hook for $25 million dead cap that'll restrict us for the next 5-6 years anyways. This would mean that if we don't also trade KD, and with Bookers' 8% escalators each of the next two seasons, W'd still be very limited and could maybe have the MLE and vet mins and then end up right back at/over the 2nd apron again. But now we're also carrying Beals' 25 million on our books for the next half-decade!

And if that MLE player and those vet min signings don't drastically improve our trajectory, then we'll have just screwed ourselves further for what exactly?? And so what if we have Beals'50 million salary on our books for the next two seasons. He'd offer more production and gravity by a wide margin than any MLE and vet min options you're puzzlingly championing, anchoring ourselves with $25 million cap hit for the next 5-6 years for man! And my "wonder plan actually allows for the opposite of what you're claiming because in trading Booker, too, we'd actually be getting elite young core talent, vet players (for salary matching) and high picks (lottery), obviously not 2nd rounders and vet mins! Unless you somehow think that'd be Booker's trade value? We'd have massive cap space, draft picks, elite young talent, and a bunch of veteran options. So I'm not sure where you come up with loading up on vet mins and 2nd rounders??

And yes! It'd be much easier to trade Beal as an expiring for the reasons that I've already mentioned (IF he even would choose to stay). Also, yes!! A massive $57 million expiring would be a very desirable trade asset with this current CBA and how punitive the 2nd apron is! Or for teams already in the 2nd apron with disgruntled stars that might not want to stay on those teams, or teams that want to pivot and rebuild and are looking to get out from under long-term money! One such perfect example that comes to mind is Lauri Markannen in Utah! or really also taking back multiple smaller long-term contracts in exchange for getting other key pieces- maybe a Jerami Grant? Or perhaps a Jamal Murray or Aaron Gordon+ pivot? But again, IF trading Booker and KD, then obviously Beal wouldn't even want to stay for a rebuild! So, he'd agree to a trade and waive his NTC.

And it's funny you claim to not care what they do, but then fairly aggressively attack any differing perspectives man! And you "think" you can see their path, or at least one that follows what they've said? And this somehow makes sense to you how exactly? because their decisions and strategies have been so great and successful and yielded such great results!! And honestly, man, how is that any different than what you're doing with your veiled barbs, backhanded comments, and constant chiding of ideas that are different than yours or the front office?? Kind of hypocritical to accuse others of doing the very thing you're doing consistently just because some of us don't choose to follow "lock step" to the front offices' egregiously bad decisions that put us in this very situation to begin with!

Lastly, that's cool if you're done responding to my posts, man! Hopefully, doing so will save you much frustration and emotional trauma. And my posts are only so long and detailed out of respect to give your replies the level of investment/effort I feel they deserve. If I didn't still respect you, I would just answer in kind with sarcastic one-liners or short responses. But I guess we all have our roles here...huh?....LOL. Apparently, to you, mine is a maniacal antagonist. But is doesn't take an FN' genius GM or genius in general to look at our situation and understand that continuing to do the same thing over and over again despite repeated failures is a very bad plan or "path" to pursue! And how else would you prefer I share my perspectives than by using "I" would do this and "I" would do that rhetoric? Would it be more palatable to you if I just used a 3rd person rhetoric? Should I impose to say other people would/should do this as if to speak on the behalf of others?

All this being said, you're right that stretching Beal is not the top of our problems! Let's see how things play out and if that actually happens this summer. At the very least, it's going to be very interesting to see how the front offices' plan you're championing (to a degree) plays out for our future!

Here you go, Frank. Per ChatGPT:

The writer passionately defends their views on the team's cap situation, trades, and long-term planning, arguing that their ideas—though seen by some as extreme—are logical responses to the team's constraints. They express frustration with being mischaracterized and point out perceived hypocrisy in how their opinions are criticized. They argue that trading stars like Booker and KD could actually be beneficial long-term, emphasizing cap flexibility, draft picks, and younger talent. The tone is defensive but thorough, aiming to counter another user's sarcasm and criticisms. Ultimately, the writer asserts they’re open to opposing views—if backed with solid reasoning.

[bwgood77]

Rare do I see ChatGPT used to shorten something.

[DirtyDez]

I would take Griffin. The Zion thing basically tanked his tenure. Good drafter.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

That post might be the longest ever written here

There's always tomorrow still man.

[sunsbum]

That post might be the longest ever written here

Frank poked the bear. He should know better.

Frank with the longest rant I’ve ever seen then GoK triples down with the novel. i love it!!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

That post might be the longest ever written here

Frank poked the bear. He should know better.

Frank with the longest rant I’ve ever seen then GoK triples down with the novel. i love it!!

Playing our roles for now as expected.

[BobbieL]

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Read on Twitter

Ishbia, if he fires Jones, need somebody with a vision of building a roster and he needs to allow the time, and if Gambo says three years, thats probably from one of his sources -- the three year timeline

Personally, I don't think Ishbia could be that patient. Hence, why Durant will be traded for a "win now" player using the Durant contract

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Ishbia, if he fires Jones, need somebody with a vision of building a roster and he needs to allow the time, and if Gambo says three years, thats probably from one of his sources -- the three year timeline

Personally, I don't think Ishbia could be that patient. Hence, why Durant will be traded for a "win now" player using the Durant contract

He'll be really stubborn and learn yet again the hard way this summer, but if what Gambo says is actually true about a 3 yr rebuild, then it aligns with what myself and others might believe could be the plan.

To hold onto Beal for the massive cap space it'd give us in the summer of 27 when he'll come off the books and give us over 60 million in cap space to sign bigger names etc in free agency.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2027/type/ufa

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Which of these teams listed do you guys actually think are most likely to flame out early and offer a solid package for KD in trade this summer?

Which team would you prefer most ifvtrading for KD?

[BobbieL]

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Ishbia, if he fires Jones, need somebody with a vision of building a roster and he needs to allow the time, and if Gambo says three years, thats probably from one of his sources -- the three year timeline

Personally, I don't think Ishbia could be that patient. Hence, why Durant will be traded for a "win now" player using the Durant contract

He'll be really stubborn and learn yet again the hard way this summer, but if what Gambo says is actually true about a 3 yr rebuild, then it aligns with what myself and others might believe could be the plan.

To hold onto Beal for the massive cap space it'd give us in the summer of 27 when he'll come off the books and give us over 60 million in cap space to sign bigger names etc in free agency.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2027/type/ufa

For the record, I think they would get the massive cap space in the summer of 27 if they buy him out as well.
Its the stretching/waiving where some of that cap space would be taken away
And of course, if he is traded, for sure Ishbia probably would take on a contract or two that would not expire in the summer of 2027 plus the draft picks to trade him


So for me - probably the best option for Ishbia is if Beal would take a buyout - its the lesser eveil

[Ghost of Kleine]

Ishbia, if he fires Jones, need somebody with a vision of building a roster and he needs to allow the time, and if Gambo says three years, thats probably from one of his sources -- the three year timeline

Personally, I don't think Ishbia could be that patient. Hence, why Durant will be traded for a "win now" player using the Durant contract

He'll be really stubborn and learn yet again the hard way this summer, but if what Gambo says is actually true about a 3 yr rebuild, then it aligns with what myself and others might believe could be the plan.

To hold onto Beal for the massive cap space it'd give us in the summer of 27 when he'll come off the books and give us over 60 million in cap space to sign bigger names etc in free agency.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2027/type/ufa

For the record, I think they would get the massive cap space in the summer of 27 if they buy him out as well.
Its the stretching/waiving where some of that cap space would be taken away
And of course, if he is traded, for sure Ishbia probably would take on a contract or two that would not expire in the summer of 2027 plus the draft picks to trade him


So for me - probably the best option for Ishbia is if Beal would take a buyout - its the lesser eveil

Yes! That's very true that he could buyout Beal much easier in his last season as an expiring because if he did buy him out with only 57 million remaining spread over 5 yrs, then it'd only be around $ 11. 4 million over the next 5 yrs.

Not nearly as bad as the 25 million cumulative dead cap we'd be stuck with it he did that this summer. But even getting Beal to agree to give up 15% of his contract needed under the CBA to buy him out is highly unlikely.

That'd be asking him to give up 17-18 million just to help us buy him out early. And his next contract would likely only be in the 15-18 range at best. So I don't see him wanting to do that.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[bwgood77]

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Which of these teams listed do you guys actually think are most likely to flame out early and offer a solid package for KD in trade this summer?

Which team would you prefer most ifvtrading for KD?

I think if the Rockets play GS that could be a tough series for them. I think the Lakers will beat the Timberwolves. I think the Clips have a good chance against Denver if they stay healthy.

The Knicks should be able to beat the Pistons.

I don't know what team I prefer. I feel like we've beat potential packages to depth.

[sunskerr]

That post might be the longest ever written here

Frank poked the bear. He should know better.

Frank with the longest rant I’ve ever seen then GoK triples down with the novel. i love it!!

And here comes frank with the steel chair!!

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Crazy thing is that triple PG experiment was way younger than our mid three.

I do think that team sort of confirmed the year before was a fluke and we were ultimately a treadmill squad. The roster really wasn't that great outside of Goran who maybe couldve been a 2nd option in those prime years at best.

Sucks how it turned out. I don't think signing IT2 was the worst move (hey he was a free 20 ppg trade asset, can't argue with that) but how we handled it obviously was. Didn't get very much in return for any of our PGs when they started asking out.

I was hoping GS matched up with the Lakers, but it will likely be GS vs Houston which could be a tough series for Houston (which could be good for trade possibilities).

I don't see anyone beating OKC except possibly the Lakers. I didn't think the Lakers would be this good so fast after the trade, but Luka just wins...especially as the season goes on...and knocked out OKC last time.

Clippers looking tough if Kawhi stays healthy. I think they could knock off Denver and give OKC some trouble.

I am pulling for OKC too, but next year I do hope with Kyrie back, Dallas crushes a team like the Lakers. I think with Kyrie, AD, Lively, Gafford plus guys like Naji Marshall, PJ and Christie plus a rookie could be a very tough team. Mainly because I feel bad for Dallas.

Totally forgot about the clippers. Would be nice to see Harden go deep again too. That 4-5 matchup is going to be crazy.

Dallas sadly I think might be done...I'm worried about Kyries ability to bounce back at 33 since his game is, while super skilled, you still need that burst to be effective at his size. Idk, I really love Kyries game but I'm super worried that it might be curtains for his elite years, which Dallas needs to make noise.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Which of these teams listed do you guys actually think are most likely to flame out early and offer a solid package for KD in trade this summer?

Which team would you prefer most ifvtrading for KD?

I think if the Rockets play GS that could be a tough series for them. I think the Lakers will beat the Timberwolves. I think the Clips have a good chance against Denver if they stay healthy.

The Knicks should be able to beat the Pistons.

I don't know what team I prefer. I feel like we've beat potential packages to depth.

For my part, I'd love to see the Rockets get beaten handily! Not just for interest in a KD trade package but because the majority of their fans have been entirely too smug about having our picks and supposedly having us over a barrel"??

I'd put the Timberwolves as 2nd, only because I think their player package and the Detroit pick could give us something to work with. I really like the Denver premise, though, getting Porter Jr or Murray, but would probably flip Murray elsewhere for another package of players/ picks? Maybe to Brooklyn for Cam Johnson/ filler/picks? Orlando for Isaac/ KCP/Bidatze/ picks? (Orl 25' 1st and DEN 25' 1st) Or to Sacramento for Sabonis or Chicago for Ball/ Vuvcevic/filler/picks? Or possibly New Orleans for Murray/ Jones/ picks?

Who really knows? Maybe Houston would want him for some young players/ picks? Or Detroit? Also, for me, if Denver is getting KD, since they have no picks! Braun and Holmes would have to be included in the player package. Getting Braun would make trading Allen much more palatable.

[Sunsdeuce]

Ishbia is an unserious owner. End statement

[BobbieL]

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Which of these teams listed do you guys actually think are most likely to flame out early and offer a solid package for KD in trade this summer?

Which team would you prefer most ifvtrading for KD?

I think if the Rockets play GS that could be a tough series for them. I think the Lakers will beat the Timberwolves. I think the Clips have a good chance against Denver if they stay healthy.

The Knicks should be able to beat the Pistons.

I don't know what team I prefer. I feel like we've beat potential packages to depth.

I think if the Knicks lose to the Pistons - and how they lose - they might be aggressive. But not sure I want KAT
So maybe better if the Pistons losse to the Knicks