The official fire Chris Finch thread

[FrenchMinnyFan]

Do you think it’s a coincidence that out of the top 15 teams we’re by far the worst team in the clutch?

That our players are that collectively ignorant?

I don’t. A complete coach has his guys locked in at a much higher level than our are.

Lifelong bball player and fan talking.

I’m sorry you disagree but that’s what I see. I see a team that needs more and better coaching, including more offensive structure, more motivation, more adherence to planning, etc.

It has to be built into what they do all the time. I don’t know that Finch has all these things (offense that works in clutch time), or if he does and he can’t get them to land, but I think we do have a coaching problem.

We have no one in the clutch besides Ant. That's not Finch's problem. Any out of bounds play he draws up is **** because we don't have the personnel.

The only player besides Ant who should be on ball is Divencenzo.

I'm not saying that coaching couldn't be better but let's not pretend like we have Kobe, Jordan, Horry, and Kerr out there in the clutch.

We got one maybe two guys. It's not great.

We don't necessarily need more "clutch" players. What we really need are effective offensive sets that ultimately result in an uncontested, reasonable shot. Ant, Randle, Jaden, Conley, NAW, DDV and Reid are all capable shotmakers.

I'm not asking for Finch to get fired but I'm far from impressed when it comes to his offense, the coddling of his star players and a repeated inability to manage/address scoring runs by our opponents.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

That's the all point. Yes we do not have a clutch superstar as ANT is too young and immature in those situation. But we have a lot of 40%+ 3 points shooters, we have Rudy who can dunk, Jaden who can attack the rim..... It's down to Finch to set up the tone and Mike, DDV have to find the open guy, not throw the ball to ANT and let him play the hero.

[thinktank]

The logic that only Ant can win a game is so corrupt.

NBA players are all really good. Move them around and move the ball around and get a good shot.

That’s what good teams do.

[Note30]

We have no one in the clutch besides Ant. That's not Finch's problem. Any out of bounds play he draws up is **** because we don't have the personnel.

The only player besides Ant who should be on ball is Divencenzo.

I'm not saying that coaching couldn't be better but let's not pretend like we have Kobe, Jordan, Horry, and Kerr out there in the clutch.

We got one maybe two guys. It's not great.

We don't necessarily need more "clutch" players. What we really need are effective offensive sets that ultimately result in an uncontested, reasonable shot. Ant, Randle, Jaden, Conley, NAW, DDV and Reid are all capable shotmakers.

I'm not asking for Finch to get fired but I'm far from impressed when it comes to his offense, the coddling of his star players and a repeated inability to manage/address scoring runs by our opponents.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

That's the all point. Yes we do not have a clutch superstar as ANT is too young and immature in those situation. But we have a lot of 40%+ 3 points shooters, we have Rudy who can dunk, Jaden who can attack the rim..... It's down to Finch to set up the tone and Mike, DDV have to find the open guy, not throw the ball to ANT and let him play the hero.

Nah. Let's get somethings straight. Conley is the only person on this team shooting 40%+ from 3 on any real volume. So don't **** start.

We have capable shooters, but save the 2 I mentioned, none can create their own shot.

And to your point about setting up a dunk or a shot.

Someone needs to facilitate that shot. We have no one but old Mike Conley and flashes of Julius Randle that can do that besides Ant (who is terrible at it).

So unless every setup shot comes from an out of bounds play, stop blaming Finch for the roster construction.

No team successfully runs those sorts of plays without multiple high IQ facilitators.

You want to be the 2012-14 Spurs? go get Manu, Tony, Diaw, TD to facilitate, then we can have the **** dream you're dreaming.

I wrote this in a post here long ago that by placing so much pressure to win on essentially the back of a then 20 year old, we'd be doing that player a massive disservice and not allowing him to develop fully.

Lo and behold. We needed a real PG, we needed a real set of bench creators.

Instead we pushed the window up and now we're capped and maxed out.

[thinktank]

no

We don't necessarily need more "clutch" players. What we really need are effective offensive sets that ultimately result in an uncontested, reasonable shot. Ant, Randle, Jaden, Conley, NAW, DDV and Reid are all capable shotmakers.

I'm not asking for Finch to get fired but I'm far from impressed when it comes to his offense, the coddling of his star players and a repeated inability to manage/address scoring runs by our opponents.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

That's the all point. Yes we do not have a clutch superstar as ANT is too young and immature in those situation. But we have a lot of 40%+ 3 points shooters, we have Rudy who can dunk, Jaden who can attack the rim..... It's down to Finch to set up the tone and Mike, DDV have to find the open guy, not throw the ball to ANT and let him play the hero.

Nah. Let's get somethings straight. Conley is the only person on this team shooting 40%+ from 3 on any real volume. So don't **** start.

We have capable shooters, but save the 2 I mentioned, none can create their own shot.

And to your point about setting up a dunk or a shot.

Someone needs to facilitate that shot. We have no one but old Mike Conley and flashes of Julius Randle that can do that besides Ant (who is terrible at it).

So unless every setup shot comes from an out of bounds play, stop blaming Finch for the roster construction.

No team successfully runs those sorts of plays without multiple high IQ facilitators.

You want to be the 2012-14 Spurs? go get Manu, Tony, Diaw, TD to facilitate, then we can have the **** dream you're dreaming.

I wrote this in a post here long ago that by placing so much pressure to win on essentially the back of a then 20 year old, we'd be doing that player a massive disservice and not allowing him to develop fully.

Lo and behold. We needed a real PG, we needed a real set of bench creators.

Instead we pushed the window up and now we're capped and maxed out.

So Connelly is your scapegoat?

I think we have plenty of talent. Look at our point differential. Better than Denver, Lakers, and GSW. Yet we have a worse record. That points to underutilization of talent.

[BlacJacMac]

Something worth considering....

I don't think it's a stretch to say one of the team's biggest deficiencies on the court is Basketball IQ. How long will it take the players to adjust to a new system, especially if some keptics would say they're still learning what to do at times four years into playing the same system?

Conversely, maybe they'd thrive with a little more structure instead of having to figure everything out on the fly?

[cmoss84]

If we get knocked out in the play-in (and probably tonight), I'm guessing he's gone after season ends. The question is, if we make the 4-6 seed, how far do we have to go to save his job?

[Note30]

:cry: no

That's the all point. Yes we do not have a clutch superstar as ANT is too young and immature in those situation. But we have a lot of 40%+ 3 points shooters, we have Rudy who can dunk, Jaden who can attack the rim..... It's down to Finch to set up the tone and Mike, DDV have to find the open guy, not throw the ball to ANT and let him play the hero.

Nah. Let's get somethings straight. Conley is the only person on this team shooting 40%+ from 3 on any real volume. So don't **** start.

We have capable shooters, but save the 2 I mentioned, none can create their own shot.

And to your point about setting up a dunk or a shot.

Someone needs to facilitate that shot. We have no one but old Mike Conley and flashes of Julius Randle that can do that besides Ant (who is terrible at it).

So unless every setup shot comes from an out of bounds play, stop blaming Finch for the roster construction.

No team successfully runs those sorts of plays without multiple high IQ facilitators.

You want to be the 2012-14 Spurs? go get Manu, Tony, Diaw, TD to facilitate, then we can have the **** dream you're dreaming.

I wrote this in a post here long ago that by placing so much pressure to win on essentially the back of a then 20 year old, we'd be doing that player a massive disservice and not allowing him to develop fully.

Lo and behold. We needed a real PG, we needed a real set of bench creators.

Instead we pushed the window up and now we're capped and maxed out.

So Connelly is your scapegoat?

I think we have plenty of talent. Look at our point differential. Better than Denver, Lakers, and GSW. Yet we have a worse record. That points to underutilization of talent.

WHERE?!

No seriously where is this **** talent that you guys are constantly pushing forward. This team is Ant and a bunch of role players who are all severely limited in their skill sets.

We have some 3&D wings. Great. Fine. We have a couple of shooters otherwise. But almost every single player is one dimensional on this team with a couple of exceptions.

TC is not my scapegoat. He is the sole **** reason this team is where it is with no future.

We had a pretty decent point differential Loves last here at least in comparison to our record.

I would not have called use talented then. We were one dimensional then and now.

For the record I don't give a **** about whether Finch goes or stays. BUT He is definitely not problem number 1 with this team.

[Note30]

The logic that only Ant can win a game is so corrupt.

NBA players are all really good. Move them around and move the ball around and get a good shot.

That’s what good teams do.

Took a look at who takes the final shots on most teams.

15 teams in the league have their best shot creator taking the shot in clutch time close to 45%-54% of the time including us.

Every team has their best shot creator at atleast 32% of the time.

Here are the teams that are on the lowe end of that spectrum:
Portland
Denver
Houston
Charlotte
LAC
Boston

Ignoring Portland and Charlotte because they aren't close to playoffs, notice anything about the rest of those teams?

Houston has 3 players who can create their own shot reliably , LAC has 3 players who can create their own shot reliably, Boston has 4.

That leaves Denver who has the best passing big man of all time. And he still takes the final shot 34% of the time.

[Klomp]

The logic that only Ant can win a game is so corrupt.

NBA players are all really good. Move them around and move the ball around and get a good shot.

That’s what good teams do.

I thought the consensus was that Julius Randle is the worst, most toxic player in NBA history? Can we really have it both ways?

[thinktank]

The logic that only Ant can win a game is so corrupt.

NBA players are all really good. Move them around and move the ball around and get a good shot.

That’s what good teams do.

Took a look at who takes the final shots on most teams.

15 teams in the league have their best shot creator taking the shot in clutch time close to 45%-54% of the time including us.

Every team has their best shot creator at atleast 32% of the time.

Here are the teams that are on the lowe end of that spectrum:
Portland
Denver
Houston
Charlotte
LAC
Boston

Ignoring Portland and Charlotte because they aren't close to playoffs, notice anything about the rest of those teams?

Houston has 3 players who can create their own shot reliably , LAC has 3 players who can create their own shot reliably, Boston has 4.

That leaves Denver who has the best passing big man of all time. And he still takes the final shot 34% of the time.

I noticed you didn’t say how often Ant takes the clutch shots? Is he the highest percentage in the league for that stat? Hmmmmm….

What is your source for these stats? I want to be sure I respond in an apples to apples way.

I can tell you that Ant takes the 5th most clutch FGAs / game in the league, behind Brunson, Maxey, and Derozan, and Ant has the worst clutch FG% of that group by 1.5%, which is a lot.

Wolves clutch win % rank is 8th worst in league, and 6 of the 8 are literally the worst teams in the league (Utah, Toronto, Charlotte, New Orleans, Philadelphia, and Washington).

You're fine with it.

I find that to be astounding.

You're telling me, that we're bad in the clutch because our teams have talent akin to Utah, Toronto, Charlotte, New Orleans, Philadelphia, and Washington?

I'M NOT BUYING IT.

[TimberKat]

The logic that only Ant can win a game is so corrupt.

NBA players are all really good. Move them around and move the ball around and get a good shot.

That’s what good teams do.

I thought the consensus was that Julius Randle is the worst, most toxic player in NBA history? Can we really have it both ways?

I look at NBA in a more strategic and positioning point of view first. When you see the break down, it was everyone stand around the outside and no where to pass. In the old days, when that happens, you would go to the low post or high post to MJ. Maybe PG break down the defender or draw a double team.

I would go to the low post to Randle or Naz, side for JMcD or Ant breaks down double team. Maybe in bound to Conley first to determine which of those 4 to use. I feel we froze and just keep passing around the outside. Finch should call out which of those initial options to go with but I don't feel we see that (or I missed it)

[Note30]

The logic that only Ant can win a game is so corrupt.

NBA players are all really good. Move them around and move the ball around and get a good shot.

That’s what good teams do.

Took a look at who takes the final shots on most teams.

15 teams in the league have their best shot creator taking the shot in clutch time close to 45%-54% of the time including us.

Every team has their best shot creator at atleast 32% of the time.

Here are the teams that are on the lowe end of that spectrum:
Portland
Denver
Houston
Charlotte
LAC
Boston

Ignoring Portland and Charlotte because they aren't close to playoffs, notice anything about the rest of those teams?

Houston has 3 players who can create their own shot reliably , LAC has 3 players who can create their own shot reliably, Boston has 4.

That leaves Denver who has the best passing big man of all time. And he still takes the final shot 34% of the time.

I noticed you didn’t say how often Ant takes the clutch shots? Is he the highest percentage in the league for that stat? Hmmmmm….

What is your source for these stats? I want to be sure I respond in an apples to apples way.

I can tell you that Ant takes the 5th most clutch FGAs / game in the league, behind Brunson, Maxey, and Derozan, and Ant has the worst clutch FG% of that group by 1.5%, which is a lot.

Wolves clutch win % rank is 8th worst in league, and 6 of the 8 are literally the worst teams in the league (Utah, Toronto, Charlotte, New Orleans, Philadelphia, and Washington).

You're fine with it.

I find that to be astounding.

You're telling me, that we're bad in the clutch because our teams have talent akin to Utah, Toronto, Charlotte, New Orleans, Philadelphia, and Washington?

I'M NOT BUYING IT.

Dude what?

My point wasn't that Ant is good in the clutch. He's not.

My point is that this is the standard model for how teams operate.

He's 48% in terms of number of shots taken. BBR and Stat Head.

You're insinuating that there is another way for us to play in the clutch. I can assure you that is incredibly difficult to do with our personnel and that the way we do things is fairly common. If the team wants to improve get better talent it's pretty simple.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

Took a look at who takes the final shots on most teams.

15 teams in the league have their best shot creator taking the shot in clutch time close to 45%-54% of the time including us.

Every team has their best shot creator at atleast 32% of the time.

Here are the teams that are on the lowe end of that spectrum:
Portland
Denver
Houston
Charlotte
LAC
Boston

Ignoring Portland and Charlotte because they aren't close to playoffs, notice anything about the rest of those teams?

Houston has 3 players who can create their own shot reliably , LAC has 3 players who can create their own shot reliably, Boston has 4.

That leaves Denver who has the best passing big man of all time. And he still takes the final shot 34% of the time.

I noticed you didn’t say how often Ant takes the clutch shots? Is he the highest percentage in the league for that stat? Hmmmmm….

What is your source for these stats? I want to be sure I respond in an apples to apples way.

I can tell you that Ant takes the 5th most clutch FGAs / game in the league, behind Brunson, Maxey, and Derozan, and Ant has the worst clutch FG% of that group by 1.5%, which is a lot.

Wolves clutch win % rank is 8th worst in league, and 6 of the 8 are literally the worst teams in the league (Utah, Toronto, Charlotte, New Orleans, Philadelphia, and Washington).

You're fine with it.

I find that to be astounding.

You're telling me, that we're bad in the clutch because our teams have talent akin to Utah, Toronto, Charlotte, New Orleans, Philadelphia, and Washington?

I'M NOT BUYING IT.

Dude what?

My point wasn't that Ant is good in the clutch. He's not.

My point is that this is the standard model for how teams operate.

He's 48% in terms of number of shots taken. BBR and Stat Head.

You're insinuating that there is another way for us to play in the clutch. I can assure you that is incredibly difficult to do with our personnel and that the way we do things is fairly common. If the team wants to improve get better talent it's pretty simple.

I understand your point of view but disagree. Look at some games we win with a good margin last month. Ball movement was great including in the final quarter. ANT was not necessary taking all the shoot and were getting some help. I think the problem is more due to the stress close game bring. Players seems unable to regroup and let too many responsibilities on ANT.
And for me this is on coaching. We may not have the most talented players but DDV, NAZ, Mike are great 3 points shooter,s Jaden or Randle are great rim attacker, Rudy will dunk the ball if we give him the right pass...there is others options than let ANT get double teams and throw impossible shoot.

[minimus]

Read on Twitter

Interesting thread about Towns (and Finch)

[Guest84]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/wolves-support-of-michael-malone-casts-cloud-over-chris-finch/ar-AA1CH8OK?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=c0fa4ce72604481c8d84f01cca3ba3cb&ei=15

[minimus]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/wolves-support-of-michael-malone-casts-cloud-over-chris-finch/ar-AA1CH8OK?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=c0fa4ce72604481c8d84f01cca3ba3cb&ei=15

Why I am not surprised that it is Darren Doogie Wolfson?

[cmoss84]

I like Finch, and would be perfectly happy moving forward with him. But can you imagine the fire Malone has burning inside of him? And the intel?

[Dalvin]

Damn, even Budenholzer got fired after one season. Some coach can field a stacked coaching lineup with assistants Jenkins, Malone, and Budenholzer

[Note30]

Damn, even Budenholzer got fired after one season. Some coach can field a stacked coaching lineup with assistants Jenkins, Malone, and Budenholzer

There are probably more to come tbh. If MIL loses, NYK, loses. I can imagine both of those teams.

[shrink]

"Unless the Wolves fail miserably, like lose 4-0 in the first round or perhaps if they end up in the play-in not even making the playoffs, I would say let's circle back, but right now I have no sense that Chris Finch is in any sort of trouble," Wolfson said

Any of you hate Finch so much that you’d root for a 0-4 playoffs?