2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 5

[Godaddycurse]

how does carter bryant compare (defensively) to ryan dunn from last year's class?

[PhilBlackson]

how does carter bryant compare (defensively) to ryan dunn from last year's class?

I think Dunn can guard "up" a little bit more, although they're listed as the same size he just looks a bit stronger to me and probably more consistently tenacious defensively since it was his calling card/role and looked to be a way more offensively limited player than Carter can be but that's my 2c.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Queen, Fears & Maluach (in that order) have been my favourites for our pick but I just can’t see them taking Fears (which sucks) because of all the money tied into IQ and Shead’s emergence sooooo…I’m kinda with you in that Bryant will sort of take Fears’ spot on my list since I just can’t envision them actually doing it.

While the “Booker” comparison may be a stretch in terms of talent level, I do see the parallel in terms of how he was restricted both by role & playing time that he could be a hidden gem. I seen some criticism that he’s supposedly just a catch n shoot 3+D player but I thought he actually showed a ton of flashes off the dribble and even some signs of being a good passer which again might have been limited by the coaching staff.

I won’t lie I’d definitely feel a bit uneasy about the selection because we got to see so little of him to know for certain BUT maybe that’s the blessing in disguise that allows him to be a steal/available when we pick. I still have Queen ahead of him but I’ve been warming up more & more to the idea of potentially “reaching” (pause lol) on Carter.

Okay, so let me ask you this. Hypothetically, high school players are available to be picked in the draft so let’s say every freshman is a high schooler. We won’t consider guys from next year. How much higher is Carter on your board without the year of stifling he got at Zona?

I genuinely don't follow the line of questioning, am I supposed to imagine all the freshman of this class were still in highschool?!?

I'm not really sure how that changes things although it should be mentioned that coming into the college season there were scouts that had Bryant pegged to be a top 10 pick. But when he initially barely got to play and his role was limited his stock plummeted along with other after thoughts like Bethea etc lol. But as the season went on he won some time and showed some serious flashes that are enough to do a double take for me to the point that here I am in a stacked draft class saying I'd be willing to take a HUGE flyer on him by risking a top 10 on him if pushes comes to shove (ie/ the C prospects are gone).

Although I will say if that's their thought then they should try to negotiate with the Heat for them to trade up for Fears and we trade back for their picks and take CB at 11 & Fleming at 18 (which would be fantastic imo) but ofc there's a lot of risk in that as well as you'd almost have to just draft Fears with the idea that you may have to keep him IF Bryant didn't fall to 11. Because I'm not doing that trade unless he's 100% still there and like you said I can see him shooting up draft boards this year ala Bilal.

The wording was a bit confusing. Let me explain. Imagine Carter Bryant is a high school senior who is able to be drafted. We’re going to act as if this year at Arizona never happened. So all you have to go on are his high school tape/stats. Where are you taking him in this draft?

[bballsparkin]

I am shifting away from Khaman. My heart tells me to stick it out with the 7'2 guy who can move so well, but my head is full of doubt with his defensive playmaking. I don't know if he really blows up plays on defense and he doesn't show any instinct there.

Noa Essengue is officially the guy I am highest on in our range. Just watching how he loves to dunk the ball and his pursuit on both ends is special. I am thinking we value motor a lot and you don't worry about that with Noa. Look at how he is constantly getting fouled - no fear.

Read on Twitter

Thanks for the vids. And I can now see the appeal of why folks are high on him. He looks like a Raptor out there.

edit: tankathon has him as a SF/PF. Can he shoot well?

[Indeed]

I am shifting away from Khaman. My heart tells me to stick it out with the 7'2 guy who can move so well, but my head is full of doubt with his defensive playmaking. I don't know if he really blows up plays on defense and he doesn't show any instinct there.

Noa Essengue is officially the guy I am highest on in our range. Just watching how he loves to dunk the ball and his pursuit on both ends is special. I am thinking we value motor a lot and you don't worry about that with Noa. Look at how he is constantly getting fouled - no fear.

Read on Twitter

Thanks for the vids. And I can now see the appeal of why folks are high on him. He looks like a Raptor out there.

edit: tankathon has him as a SF/PF. Can he shoot well?

Around 75% free throw, but not yet a consistent 3 point shooter.
Maluach, Bryant and Essengue are the high risk high reward type. Maluach and Bryant might have a better floor, while Essengue would be Banton in his floor, I suppose. I would have Bryant a big higher due to him shown better shooting.

[Jerry Lucas]

The next Mogbo

Draft Year:
Lendeborg: 33.6 MIN, 17.7 PPG, 11.4 REB, 4.2 AST, 1.7 STL, 1.8 BLK, .522 FG, .357 3PT, .757 FT, .592 TS, 23.9 USG, 11.2 BPM
J Mogbo: 28.9 MIN, 14.2 PPG, 10.1 REB, 3.6 AST, 1.6 STL, 0.8 BLK, .636 FG, .000 3PT, .692 FT, .648 TS, 22.7 USG, 11.1 BPM

I actually disagree that Yaxel is a Masai-type FRP, even though I was the conductor of the "Mogbo is a Masai-type FRP" train pre-draft last year. I like Yaxel as a prospect in general, I just don't think he's a Masai-type.

[Jerry Lucas]

Carter Bryant has all the tools especially defensively. He looks every bit of 6'8" too. If there's one player that is closest to body and activeness defensively to OG, it's him.

And yet, OG Anunoby produced like a Masai-type FRP in his draft year.

Carter Bryant did not. I general I like him as a prospect though, I just doubt he's a Masai-type FRP.

[WuTang_OG]

Carter Bryant has all the tools especially defensively. He looks every bit of 6'8" too. If there's one player that is closest to body and activeness defensively to OG, it's him.

And yet, OG Anunoby produced like a Masai-type FRP in his draft year.

Carter Bryant did not. I general I like him as a prospect though, I just doubt he's a Masai-type FRP.

k dude relax with this not a masai type every post

[Jerry Lucas]

Carter Bryant has all the tools especially defensively. He looks every bit of 6'8" too. If there's one player that is closest to body and activeness defensively to OG, it's him.

And yet, OG Anunoby produced like a Masai-type FRP in his draft year.

Carter Bryant did not. I general I like him as a prospect though, I just doubt he's a Masai-type FRP.

k dude relax with this not a masai type every post

I think you're just mad because I nailed the Ja'Kobe Walter pick 5 months before the 2024 draft, and you were locked in on Masai taking Yves Missi at 19.

Hate on it all you want, but I accidentally stumbled across something legit. I'm 3 for 3 in identifying Masai-type FRPs (Gradey+Ja'Kobe+Mogbo right after pick 30) since the website Barttorvik was shown to me back during the 2023 draft cycle.

[WuTang_OG]

And yet, OG Anunoby produced like a Masai-type FRP in his draft year.

Carter Bryant did not. I general I like him as a prospect though, I just doubt he's a Masai-type FRP.

k dude relax with this not a masai type every post

I think you're just mad because I nailed the Ja'Kobe Walter pick 5 months before the 2024 draft, and you were locked in on Masai taking Yves Missi at 19.

Hate on it all you want, but I accidentally stumbled across something legit. I'm 3 for 3 in identifying Masai-type FRPs (Gradey+Ja'Kobe+Mogbo right after pick 30) since the website Barttorvik was shown to me back during the 2023 draft cycle.

no one's mad, if you want a reward, go get an ice cream.

gets annoying when you copy and past your default response in every post. Just chill. As I told you already, Missi was right there at 19 for them as per Vecenie and he had a solid rookie season so stop yapping

[Jerry Lucas]

k dude relax with this not a masai type every post

I think you're just mad because I nailed the Ja'Kobe Walter pick 5 months before the 2024 draft, and you were locked in on Masai taking Yves Missi at 19.

Hate on it all you want, but I accidentally stumbled across something legit. I'm 3 for 3 in identifying Masai-type FRPs (Gradey+Ja'Kobe+Mogbo right after pick 30) since the website Barttorvik was shown to me back during the 2023 draft cycle.

no one's mad, if you want a reward, go get an ice cream.

gets annoying when you copy and past your default response in every post. Just chill. As I told you already, Missi was right there at 19 for them as per Vecenie and he had a solid rookie season so stop yapping

Idk you seem mad

[WuTang_OG]

I think you're just mad because I nailed the Ja'Kobe Walter pick 5 months before the 2024 draft, and you were locked in on Masai taking Yves Missi at 19.

Hate on it all you want, but I accidentally stumbled across something legit. I'm 3 for 3 in identifying Masai-type FRPs (Gradey+Ja'Kobe+Mogbo right after pick 30) since the website Barttorvik was shown to me back during the 2023 draft cycle.

no one's mad, if you want a reward, go get an ice cream.

gets annoying when you copy and past your default response in every post. Just chill. As I told you already, Missi was right there at 19 for them as per Vecenie and he had a solid rookie season so stop yapping

Idk you seem mad

u just seem like a kid copy and pasting ur default response. its okay to add something else for once

[BoyzNTheHood]

And yet, OG Anunoby produced like a Masai-type FRP in his draft year.

Carter Bryant did not. I general I like him as a prospect though, I just doubt he's a Masai-type FRP.

k dude relax with this not a masai type every post

I think you're just mad because I nailed the Ja'Kobe Walter pick 5 months before the 2024 draft, and you were locked in on Masai taking Yves Missi at 19.

Hate on it all you want, but I accidentally stumbled across something legit. I'm 3 for 3 in identifying Masai-type FRPs (Gradey+Ja'Kobe+Mogbo right after pick 30) since the website Barttorvik was shown to me back during the 2023 draft cycle.

Do you have the algorithm?

[PhilBlackson]

And yet, OG Anunoby produced like a Masai-type FRP in his draft year.

Carter Bryant did not. I general I like him as a prospect though, I just doubt he's a Masai-type FRP.

k dude relax with this not a masai type every post

I think you're just mad because I nailed the Ja'Kobe Walter pick 5 months before the 2024 draft, and you were locked in on Masai taking Yves Missi at 19.

Hate on it all you want, but I accidentally stumbled across something legit. I'm 3 for 3 in identifying Masai-type FRPs (Gradey+Ja'Kobe+Mogbo right after pick 30) since the website Barttorvik was shown to me back during the 2023 draft cycle.

I have no idea if you guys had past fallouts on here, I know I've never had an issue with you and in fact I think in the past we've actually agreed on a lot of prospects.

I also acknowledge that you may (or may not) have stumbled on to something...I'd actually be interested to know how each player on our entire roster falls into these metrics. But it's bound to rub some people the wrong way when there's a boastfulness about it and declaration like it's gospel. Of course we'll see if you're right again and part of me hopes so because I think Queen was on whatever list you came up with (and he's right now a top of my board for our pick) so it's not like I'm rooting against this criteria when it could lead to a selection that I like as well.

But it will be interesting to see how it bares out this draft being that from what I could recall, a good chunk of the projected top recruits actually didn't fall in line with the parameters of it. I also wonder how much variance they allow internally within certain markers or which ones do they value higher than others because surely it's not just uniform considering every player will have varied metrics. Likewise I also wouldn't rule out that their criteria may EVOLVE or how much do they favor certain makers for particular positions etc. etc....I'd be surprised if they just locked in to set criteria and were extremely rigid about any deviation from it from that moment forward and for years to come considering the game of basketball itself is evolving so surely there would have to be adaptations to it.

But again I guess we'll see if you're right and if you are, I'll stop even guessing and just look for you to release this list each year (the Jerry Lucas Mock Draft 1.0) lol but please re-post it (I almost wish they would sticky it to see if it held up post-draft).

[Grew]

And yet, OG Anunoby produced like a Masai-type FRP in his draft year.

Carter Bryant did not. I general I like him as a prospect though, I just doubt he's a Masai-type FRP.

k dude relax with this not a masai type every post

I think you're just mad because I nailed the Ja'Kobe Walter pick 5 months before the 2024 draft, and you were locked in on Masai taking Yves Missi at 19.

Hate on it all you want, but I accidentally stumbled across something legit. I'm 3 for 3 in identifying Masai-type FRPs (Gradey+Ja'Kobe+Mogbo right after pick 30) since the website Barttorvik was shown to me back during the 2023 draft cycle.

who we picking this year Jerry?

[Basketball_Jones]

I do think Queen/Fears/VJ will all be gone by 7, which leaves us staring down Khaman/Kon/Tre. I wouldn’t be mad at either of them I guess but not overjoyed.

[Jerry Lucas]

k dude relax with this not a masai type every post

I think you're just mad because I nailed the Ja'Kobe Walter pick 5 months before the 2024 draft, and you were locked in on Masai taking Yves Missi at 19.

Hate on it all you want, but I accidentally stumbled across something legit. I'm 3 for 3 in identifying Masai-type FRPs (Gradey+Ja'Kobe+Mogbo right after pick 30) since the website Barttorvik was shown to me back during the 2023 draft cycle.

I have no idea if you guys had past fallouts on here, I know I've never had an issue with you and in fact I think in the past we've actually agreed on a lot of prospects.

I also acknowledge that you may (or may not) have stumbled on to something...I'd actually be interested to know how each player on our entire roster falls into these metrics. But it's bound to rub some people the wrong way when there's a boastfulness about it and declaration like it's gospel. Of course we'll see if you're right again and part of me hopes so because I think Queen was on whatever list you came up with (and he's right now a top of my board for our pick) so it's not like I'm rooting against this criteria when it could lead to a selection that I like as well.

But it will be interesting to see how it bares out this draft being that from what I could recall, a good chunk of the projected top recruits actually didn't fall in line with the parameters of it. I also wonder how much variance they allow internally within certain markers or which ones do they value higher than others because surely it's not just uniform considering every player will have varied metrics. Likewise I also wouldn't rule out that their criteria may EVOLVE or how much do they favor certain makers for particular positions etc. etc....I'd be surprised if they just locked in to set criteria and were extremely rigid about any deviation from it from that moment forward and for years to come considering the game of basketball itself is evolving so surely there would have to be adaptations to it.

But again I guess we'll see if you're right and if you are, I'll stop even guessing and just look for you to release this list each year (the Jerry Lucas Mock Draft 1.0) lol but please re-post it (I almost wish they would sticky it to see if it held up post-draft).

The list is pretty much locked in post-March Madness other than 2 guys (depending on their combine measurements):

Flagg

Harper

Edgecombe

Jakucionis
Queen

CMB
Jase Richardson
Asa Newell

maybe Fears
maybe Knueppel

Fears and Knueppel are maybes because if they measure out to have a negative wingspan to height ratio, that is basically the biggest red flag a prospect can have from a Masai-type POV. Conflicting reports/rumours are the reason why I'm currently unsure, but combine measurements will settle it.

[Yallbecrazy]

I don't always agree with Pen, but I do on this one. If Kaman and Queen are off the board at 7-8 then trade down with Miami.

Get one of Carter/Noa/CMB at 11
and
one of Sorber/Wolf/Condon at 18

Yeah I wish we had a 13-18 pick as well. He looks good.

Let's trade 7/8 and #39 to Miami that wants Fears or Queen or whoever. We get #11 and #18.

#11 Carter Bryant
#18 Rasheer Fleming

Would like to trade Ochai Agbaji for a 2nd round pick to draft Alex Condon or Tomislav Ivisic. Sergio de Larrea would be a luxury get.

Condon may have some physical gifts, but that dude is soft and not physical at all. For him to be successful, I think he needs to develop an above average three point shot and mainly play the 4, not the 5, because he is just too soft for the 5 against the actual big boys of the league. A physical dude like Clingan or Edey would destroy him.

Condon is one of the toughest guys in the draft, you might mean that he's not super strong, but he's the opposite of soft. (He's not thin either, just not bulky)

[Psubs]

Okay, so let me ask you this. Hypothetically, high school players are available to be picked in the draft so let’s say every freshman is a high schooler. We won’t consider guys from next year. How much higher is Carter on your board without the year of stifling he got at Zona?

I genuinely don't follow the line of questioning, am I supposed to imagine all the freshman of this class were still in highschool?!?

I'm not really sure how that changes things although it should be mentioned that coming into the college season there were scouts that had Bryant pegged to be a top 10 pick. But when he initially barely got to play and his role was limited his stock plummeted along with other after thoughts like Bethea etc lol. But as the season went on he won some time and showed some serious flashes that are enough to do a double take for me to the point that here I am in a stacked draft class saying I'd be willing to take a HUGE flyer on him by risking a top 10 on him if pushes comes to shove (ie/ the C prospects are gone).

Although I will say if that's their thought then they should try to negotiate with the Heat for them to trade up for Fears and we trade back for their picks and take CB at 11 & Fleming at 18 (which would be fantastic imo) but ofc there's a lot of risk in that as well as you'd almost have to just draft Fears with the idea that you may have to keep him IF Bryant didn't fall to 11. Because I'm not doing that trade unless he's 100% still there and like you said I can see him shooting up draft boards this year ala Bilal.

The wording was a bit confusing. Let me explain. Imagine Carter Bryant is a high school senior who is able to be drafted. We’re going to act as if this year at Arizona never happened. So all you have to go on are his high school tape/stats. Where are you taking him in this draft?

Looking at him bringing the ball up and running the offense, I would think he would be #3 behind Harper. I guess if Ace Bailey didn't play at Rutgers then he would be 3 and Carter Bryant #4 still ahead of Tre and VJ.

[raptor jesus]

Let's trade 7/8 and #39 to Miami that wants Fears or Queen or whoever. We get #11 and #18.

#11 Carter Bryant
#18 Rasheer Fleming

Would like to trade Ochai Agbaji for a 2nd round pick to draft Alex Condon or Tomislav Ivisic. Sergio de Larrea would be a luxury get.

Condon may have some physical gifts, but that dude is soft and not physical at all. For him to be successful, I think he needs to develop an above average three point shot and mainly play the 4, not the 5, because he is just too soft for the 5 against the actual big boys of the league. A physical dude like Clingan or Edey would destroy him.

Condon is one of the toughest guys in the draft, you might mean that he's not super strong, but he's the opposite of soft. (He's not thin either, just not bulky)

From what I saw of Condon, he plays astoninshly soft. I saw a lot of instances where he'd catch the ball in the paint and he'd refuse to go up strong or take advantage of a size advantage. He passed up a lot of dunks/easy looks to kick the ball out for worse looks.