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Offseason 2025 Thread

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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#41 » by fatlever » Mon Apr 14, 2025 11:22 pm

KembaWalker wrote:just like all the good players on this team were gotten by the previous regime, the new facilities were also secured by the previous regime

i also wouldnt be surprised if this is one of our most budget coaching staffs of all time. certainly Atkinson and his squad was going to be a much more expensive hire than Lee and that budget ended up killing the hire but even in the past we've had some notable assistants, Borrego was allowed Triano with former HC experience, Clifford had Ty Corbin with former HC experience, we've had notable assistants in the past like Ewing and Silas who went on to become HC candidates around the league. Larry Browns crew certainly didn't come cheap.

I look at our coaching stable now and I see a bunch of nobodies, and maybe thats how Lee wanted it but then it speaks even more poorly of him. if he wants to play good cop Mr. Nice Guy smiling all the time pretending like this utter abomination of a product he put out on the floor every night has him totally unphased, he needs somebody to balance him out. honestly always preferred coaches who seem like dicks, and you have the assistants there to good cop and keep the morale up.


I can't say I agree with your perception of the budget For previous coaching staffs was more. Other than Larry Brown we have never in the history of the return of this franchise spent money on a coach. I doubt we were going to give Atkinson much more than we ended up giving Lee. And the reason Atkinson walked away was because we refused to give him budget to hire assistants he wanted and forced Clifford's old assistance on him because they were already under budget. I mean that is the definition of being a cheap owner. All of the assistants that we hired this summer were all considered to be highly regarded assistance. I'm not defending the performance of the coaching staff and we certainly are on the cheaper side of coaches. But it is definitely some rose colored glasses to suggest that we spent more on coaches under Jordan. That is emphatically false. Ty corbin was definitely not An expensive assistant coach. He was a horrendous head coach and I don't know what he'd been doing prior to joining Clifford staff but I doubt it was much. I think Ewing probably would have joined the coaching staff for free because he was just begging for a shot to be hired. I mean Jordan tried to force Charles Oakley onto a coaching staff at one point. And then Oakley tried to fight Gerald Wallace. There are a million articles over the past decade that mention how cheap of an owner Jordan was.

And of course all of the "good" players that are on the team now were put there by the previous front office because they had six years of lottery picks to do it.

I don't have any issues with people not being happy with the current front office and the current coaching staff. But I will argue all day long about the ineptitude and cheapness of the previous owners and front office.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#42 » by Bassman » Tue Apr 15, 2025 12:10 am

Coach Lee hasn’t proven anything other than he’s created a warm, fuzzy and beloved family environment for the players. I don’t dislike that per se, as interviews bring this out from players who genuinely love being part of it. Translating that into tough, competitive, winning basketball is the next test. Don’t give two s#*+s about them making excuses for future injury challenges. Y’all got your damn mulligan this year. And Peterson’s blasé end of year jabber is puppy dog tails and butterflies dancing around a poop pile. Here’s what I want Jeff and company to know from this fan:

NO MORE SCREWING UP DRAFT PICKS OR TRADES OR SIGNINGS! You own that, and any repeat performances will doom this franchise. This is why I so want us to get pick #1. That is SO EASY. Maybe find us a quality later 20’s veteran in trade for Green and similar players, plus some precious picks, without sending out core.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#43 » by Liver_Pooty » Tue Apr 15, 2025 5:15 am

Brandon Millers injury is a massive problem.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#44 » by Rich4114 » Tue Apr 15, 2025 3:44 pm

It's not as hard to make the playoffs as this team has made it feel over the last 3 seasons. We simply need to add real, proven depth and not fumble a top 6 pick for the second consecutive season. This was probably the worst season I can remember, and that says a lot considering the previous two...

But it's all going to come down to the decisions Jeff makes from this point forward and the lottery on May 12th.

I think we have 3 majorly concerning injuries in Miller, Mann and Grant... but the Mark/LaMelo injuries were definitely milked this year so there's that. We need to get stronger as a team. That means some of our young players need to spend time in the weight room and we need to add vets who add mass to the front-court.

Josh Green and Salaun were complete whiffs. But we have assets, high value assets in terms of the draft for both 1st and 2nd round picks. I think it's time to stop accumulating them and begin to parlay some into players that can help us win now. They should look at it as an investment in the investments they've already made to help their young core improve and experience competitive basketball beyond November.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#45 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Apr 15, 2025 4:06 pm

It's early but I think given early returns with new leadership and their exit interviews, we are in trouble.

They all sound like a gimmick.

Charlotteans have really low standards as fans. Yankees fans would never lay down like this when the rich owners cry poor through their GM.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#46 » by Rich4114 » Tue Apr 15, 2025 4:14 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:It's early but I think given early returns with new leadership and their exit interviews, we are in trouble.

They all sound like a gimmick.

Charlotteans have really low standards as fans. Yankees fans would never lay down like this when the rich owners cry poor through their GM.


Wait, where did the owners cry poor through Jeff?
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#47 » by fatlever » Tue Apr 15, 2025 4:33 pm

Read on Twitter
?t=E5axeLuuqDxV_Srl3ZQaAg&s=19

Read on Twitter
?t=aQOPEDjA5UfHIDAv5v3-YA&s=19

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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#48 » by KembaWalker » Tue Apr 15, 2025 5:36 pm

fatlever wrote:
Read on Twitter
?t=E5axeLuuqDxV_Srl3ZQaAg&s=19

Read on Twitter
?t=aQOPEDjA5UfHIDAv5v3-YA&s=19

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app


Promoting JP even in title only based on his body of work so far is certainly a decision.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#49 » by fatlever » Tue Apr 15, 2025 6:06 pm

Dissecting the comments yesterday from jeff Peterson a little further when he said that we weren't going to skip steps in order to... Fill in the blank

Obviously this can be interpreted a dozen different ways. Saying We're not going to do anything other than going to the draft and try to get better organically to make the playoffs or they're not going to sell off all our future draft picks for an aging superstar in order to make the playoffs and there's a lot of room in between those two polar opposites. I don't think any of us would expect the team to completely mortgage the future in a win now move on a roster that has so many? Heading into next year. But I think we would all be equally frustrated if we pulled the Mitch route of just Adding three rookies through the draft a couple of bargain bin basement vets to fill out the roster and called it an off season. My guess is it will lean somewhere in the middle of these two things but probably closer to the Mitch route rather than the push all your chips into the middle of the table route.

Second point, we have seen both Houston two years ago and Detroit last year make that leap from a team that was in our position of young rookies losing culture roster of recent draft picks, to adding some veteran players and then all of a sudden there in the playoffs. I think it's important to remember that in both of those situations Houston and Detroit had huge amounts of cap space going into those off seasons. Houston had the cap space to sign Fred Van Fleet and Dillon Brooks While Detroit had the cap space to bring in Tobias Harris and Malik Beasley. We won't be able to copy that blueprint simply because we don't have that cap space. Best we'll be able to do is someone on an MLE.

Our front office chose the route of acquiring bad contracts for draft picks as a way to build the team rather than clearing the deck for a huge amount of cap space in a single offseason. I think this alone means that our rebuild won't happen quite as quickly as those two situations. Not to mention that they were both more successful than us in drafting, especially Houston - sengun, amen, jabari, cam, tari, green - and didn't have the horrendous injury bad luck that we've had.

Given our lack of capspace, the fact that we have three players coming back from serious injury plus another two that will be managing injuries, plus a complete whiff in the draft last year, The only way this team is making a leap is by getting healthy and having good injury luck... Or by landing one of the top two picks in the draft. Other than that, expect more of the same try to win the first two months of the season and if it starts to fall apart then they will pull the rug out and it will be loser for boozer time.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#50 » by wilson115 » Tue Apr 15, 2025 9:05 pm

Roster holes, well biggest one is obviously back-up point guard. Again. Pickings look slim though, maybe Tyus Jones but he's probably after starter minutes. Failing that, Nickeil Alexander-Walker used to handle the ball more often and can start next to LaMelo, we'll need a trade to have the cap space though.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#51 » by JMAC3 » Tue Apr 15, 2025 9:23 pm

Hard to really know much until we see how the lottery balls bounce, a lot hinges on if we land Flagg. Then if we land 2 or 3 vs 5 or 6.

Based on what I have heard from Lee and JP over the past few weeks these dudes are doing everything possible to set the bar as low as possible to make sure they keep their jobs. From Lee stating he wasn't disaspointed in a 19 win season to JP saying playoffs maybe next year, but more so in 2 years.

I would be more worried about Brandon Miller if I didn't think he was so invested, the dude loves basketball and you can tell he probably has the best spirits on the team maybe even more so than LaMelo. A lot of positive talk about him grinding film, improving his left hand and finding ways to stay active and engaged.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#52 » by EmpireFalls » Tue Apr 15, 2025 10:19 pm

Why are Cliff and Mitch still here…
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#53 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Apr 15, 2025 10:20 pm

EmpireFalls wrote:Why are Cliff and Mitch still here…


To smoke stogies. Duh.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#54 » by Braggins » Tue Apr 15, 2025 10:31 pm

EmpireFalls wrote:Why are Cliff and Mitch still here…

For **** sake I was joking when I used to characterize Clifford as a ghost that was haunting the franchise but apparently its reality...

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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#55 » by JMAC3 » Tue Apr 15, 2025 10:34 pm

EmpireFalls wrote:Why are Cliff and Mitch still here…


Cliff is a great basketball mind, just everything needed to go into coaching he just wasn't it anymore especially with health issues. We need some **** who tell it how it is, with all the mindless everything is okay that JP and Lee give off.

I also think Mitch was pretty good at a lot of aspects of his job, but we didn't surround him with the right people in the organization. If we would have had a Jeff Peterson as an assistant GM instead of Buzz Peterson and MJ's relatives. He needed those guys to help him with the 15th man, the summer league, trade deadline navigation etc in the areas he wasn't good at, but he was pretty good at drafting both in the first and the second round.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#56 » by HornetJail » Tue Apr 15, 2025 10:44 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
EmpireFalls wrote:Why are Cliff and Mitch still here…


Cliff is a great basketball mind, just everything needed to go into coaching he just wasn't it anymore especially with health issues. We need some **** who tell it how it is, with all the mindless everything is okay that JP and Lee give off.

I also think Mitch was pretty good at a lot of aspects of his job, but we didn't surround him with the right people in the organization. If we would have had a Jeff Peterson as an assistant GM instead of Buzz Peterson and MJ's relatives. He needed those guys to help him with the 15th man, the summer league, trade deadline navigation etc in the areas he wasn't good at, but he was pretty good at drafting both in the first and the second round.

Cliff's claim to fame was game planning around the fact that teams sucked at shooting high volumes of threes in 2014.

his offenses have always sucked. his defenses have sucked since 2017 when teams started to shoot more threes. he turns a blind eye on player development. he has always been terrible at rotations. what exactly is his "great basketball mind"?
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#57 » by JMAC3 » Tue Apr 15, 2025 11:16 pm

HornetJail wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
EmpireFalls wrote:Why are Cliff and Mitch still here…


Cliff is a great basketball mind, just everything needed to go into coaching he just wasn't it anymore especially with health issues. We need some **** who tell it how it is, with all the mindless everything is okay that JP and Lee give off.

I also think Mitch was pretty good at a lot of aspects of his job, but we didn't surround him with the right people in the organization. If we would have had a Jeff Peterson as an assistant GM instead of Buzz Peterson and MJ's relatives. He needed those guys to help him with the 15th man, the summer league, trade deadline navigation etc in the areas he wasn't good at, but he was pretty good at drafting both in the first and the second round.

Cliff's claim to fame was game planning around the fact that teams sucked at shooting high volumes of threes in 2014.

his offenses have always sucked. his defenses have sucked since 2017 when teams started to shoot more threes. he turns a blind eye on player development. he has always been terrible at rotations. what exactly is his "great basketball mind"?


Has he sucked at player development? Maybe MKG, Zeller and Kaminsky were all just bad picks.
Kemba turned into a multi-time allstar under him.

Last year, did alright utilizing Brandon Miller.
Brandon Miller 17.3 ppg, 52.4% EFG as a rookie.
Steph Castle 14.7 ppg, 47.6% EFG - the guy many people are claiming is an upcoming star, ROY etc etc.

Even still, most people in the game respect Clifford as a basketball mind.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#58 » by Bassman » Wed Apr 16, 2025 1:08 am

I was never thrilled by the pick of Peterson…for two reasons. He was an assistant GM, not experienced as the lead GM, and his connection was to the Hawks via the new owners. Hiring someone you are familiar with is as old as business itself, and not bad by itself. But…NEW owners, hiring an assistant as NEW lead GM. New owners will be easy on their new hire. It was apparent early that he knew he had a L O N G leash.

Then he hires a top assistant coach for their new head coach…but he’s never been a head coach at any level. We all thought it was a good get…but being a head coach is different from being an assistant. Never a guarantee someone can do that job. Having said all that…we must hold out hope that these guys will get it, cause there is no Calvary coming over the hill anytime soon.

Hey..apart from those comments, I echo the other worries about Miller. Really concerned he will not be contributing much next year…at least during the first half of the season.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#59 » by KembaWalker » Wed Apr 16, 2025 2:14 am

fatlever wrote:
And of course all of the "good" players that are on the team now were put there by the previous front office because they had six years of lottery picks to do it.


So if we have six years of decent drafting by the previous regime and a bunch of picks for the players we traded I don’t get why I’m being asked to exercise extreme patience and treat this like it’s some sort of ground zero 3 year rebuild. Other than that it’s in the execs best interest to set the lowest bar possible to be graded against. This is not/was not a year 0 rebuild asset base. Theres no reason they can’t be held to the very low standard of putting a competitive team together
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#60 » by MasterIchiro » Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:43 am

Rich4114 wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:It's early but I think given early returns with new leadership and their exit interviews, we are in trouble.

They all sound like a gimmick.

Charlotteans have really low standards as fans. Yankees fans would never lay down like this when the rich owners cry poor through their GM.


Wait, where did the owners cry poor through Jeff?


Jeff sat up their and played down any win-now impact moves.

That means no adding big contracts.

That means tight budgets.

"Sustainability" is an excuse not to spend. Jeff inherited a stable of 7 first round picks for trade.

No big contract to an impact vet is going to require mortgaging of the future (all of those picks).

The new owners are sitting on a mountain of equity, that grew at the last deadline by one 1st round pick and a bunch of decent 2nd round picks acquired via pre-existing equity.

Peterson is under no pressure to spend from the fans. And that's how the owners want it. We built equity for 6 drafts. We lost 1 of 6 (Bouk and Kai) but have Mann from that draft. We traded PJ for a top-2 1st.

There is a pretty even distribution of talent across those drafts secured on this roster. The last regime preached sustainability.

We have achieved it, and can afford to make a big play.

IF the owners are willing to spend.

I'm betting since they are new, they assume fans think the same way. We are not new to this. They're oblivious to that reality and to our long, patient wait.
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