Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

[PG Graveyard]

I'm just thinking how lucky we are to have witnessed:
The number one center (possibly number one over all player)
Top five PG of all time
Top five PF of all time
Top 10 SG of all time

All as Milwaukee Bucks

Oscar-Ray-Giannis-Kareem

Just need to draft an elite SF in my lifetime. Very lucky to experience this as a fan of a small market team. Not to mention the success we have in GB.

I’m not sure KPJ is a top 5 of all time point guard yet.

[drone3]

Dame and KPJ have played a grand total of 58-minutes together. I absolutely do not understand this notion that we need to free up all the perimeter shot creation usage for Kevin Porter Jr or that somehow having multiple play-makers/scorers in the backcourt is a bad thing. Cleveland doesn't have a problem with Mitchell and Garland, and hell, Dame didn't even have a problem with this when he played next to McCollum for a decade. Just imagine what having an additional 3-level scorer/play-maker at SG for the first time since 2019 Malcolm Brogdon could unlock for this roster.

KPJ has not been consistent with on ball D. He's great at reading the passing lanes and swooping in for the steal but this can also lead to missed rotations. He did play really well against Ant but overall he hasn't been consistent. Dame needs a reliable defensive guard next to him...I think that guy is Rollins

[raferfenix]

It’s not ideal. This team did not envision leaning on a 24-year-old reclamation project with a whole lot of baggage and zero playoff experience to initiate offense against one of the NBA’s fastest, most potent teams.

But here we are.

And it's not the worst thing in the world. Throughout Milwaukee's most recent eight-game winning streak, he's put up 16.9 points, 5.6 rebounds and 5.1 assists on 52.6 percent from the field and 40 percent from three. His youth and inexperience are what they are, sure, but his numbers suggest he's ready for the moment.

Even his defense looks terrific. Matchup data on NBA.com/stats says that opposing forwards are shooting 93-of-207, or 44.9 percent, this season whenever KPJ is the closest defender. He surprisingly defends forwards better than guards closer to his size, though, which might be something to watch out for against Indiana.

But according to PBP Stats, the Milwaukee Bucks are a net +5.7 in the minutes that Porter has played versus a net +1.4 when he sits on the bench. Both their offensive and defensive rating improve when he's on the floor.

Even more importantly, his chemistry with Giannis has been something to watch. In lineups where the two play together, they're a staggering net +22.5. They've commandeered some of this team's most inspired comebacks this season throughout their recent winning streak.

These are not empty calories. He’s not just running the offense by default; on the contrary, he’s actually elevating it. He’s using pace, patience and decisiveness. He’s hitting pull-ups, swinging the ball on time and giving Giannis just enough space to bulldoze. More than anything, KPJ is giving the Milwaukee Bucks a sense of control when things stall. That is not normal for a guy in his position.

https://behindthebuckpass.com/bucks-guard-playoff-experience-pacers-series?utm_campaign=FanSided+Daily&utm_source=FanSided+Daily&utm_medium=email&sc=45171ae4c3d1fd403450eb0ec59db5f66db4e78ed2d46949630b9bd4a0703c9b

[Ron Swanson]

He surprisingly defends forwards better than guards closer to his size, though, which might be something to watch out for against Indiana.

This part definitely matches the eye test. The defensive lapses I've seen with him have almost always been when he tries to press a quicker guard and they just blow right past him. I'd actually feel more comfortable with him switching onto guys like Tatum and Brown than I do with guys like Haliburton and Donovan Mitchell.

[ReasonablySober]

He's gonna be paid so much this summer.

[German Athens]

He's gonna be paid so much this summer.

By whom?

[Wonka]

He's gonna be paid so much this summer.

By whom?

Not us, unfortunately. He's played himself out of Milwaukee. Would be nice to have AJ Johnson to take his spot in the next few years.

[Bernman]

The only team I could see paying KPJ significantly more than we could offer, factoring in his on & off court issues, are the Brooklyn Nets. And it'd mainly be that they've expressed they want to sabotage the Bucks so we trade them Giannis. Otherwise they wouldn't do it.

I wish we'd control his or AJJ's rights, so it wasn't a reasonable fear Giannis would be left w/ no #2 option level prospect/talent going fw. But saying KPJ is going to get paid so much this summer by another team, other than to spite the Bucks, but off typical factors for valuation, is unrealistic.

[ReasonablySober]

Unless something comes up between now and FA, the off the court thing is over and done with. What little heat there was was ended when Milwaukee signed him. Some team with money is going to look at what he did for the Bucks and give him a lot more than we can.

[Ron Swanson]

If the assumption is that he's already basically a legit "#2 option" on a contending team with tremendous upside, then how are we justifying him getting MLE type offers or less? Seems like only one of those things can be true, not both.

[German Athens]

He's gonna be paid so much this summer.

By whom?

Not us, unfortunately. He's played himself out of Milwaukee. Would be nice to have AJ Johnson to take his spot in the next few years.

If Brooklyn doesn’t use their 91m of cap space on him, then I think there’s a really good chance he’s back.

Remember, we’ll likely have the full-mle available which starts at 14m.

After that, Detroit has 24m, but will almost assuredly look to bring back Beasley with how well the season went for both of them. If he gets double digits salary, up from the 6 he’s currently on, they wouldn’t be able to offer more than us.

Then the third team is NOP who will have 21m, but they are likely due for a big off-season of change, and I highly doubt they would prioritize a 25 year old mercurial guard as part of that.

There’s a handful of teams who could offer upper teens, but some of them are going to lock up their free agents first like Giddey and Santi.

TLDR: Brooklyn is the threat, after that, if he chooses to go somewhere else, it likely won’t be due to us being incapable of offering more money.

[ReasonablySober]

By whom?

Not us, unfortunately. He's played himself out of Milwaukee. Would be nice to have AJ Johnson to take his spot in the next few years.

If Brooklyn doesn’t use their 91m of cap space on him, then I think there’s a really good chance he’s back.

Remember, we’ll likely have the full-mle available which starts at 14m.

After that, Detroit has 24m, but will almost assuredly look to bring back Beasley with how well the season went for both of them. If he gets double digits salary, up from the 6 he’s currently on, they wouldn’t be able to offer more than us.

Then the third team is NOP who will have 21m, but they are likely due for a big off-season of change, and I highly doubt they would prioritize a 25 year old mercurial guard as part of that.

There’s a handful of teams who could offer upper teens, but some of them are going to lock up their free agents first like Giddey and Santi.

TLDR: Brooklyn is the threat, after that, if he chooses to go somewhere else, it likely won’t be due to us being incapable of offering more money.

That sounds like someone whistling past the graveyard.

[emunney]

It changes things if we go on a deep run with him as our de facto #2 option, but it's fair to wonder how much things can possibly change. Remember he was flagged as a major locker room problem and his big contract was only guaranteed for 1 year *before* he was arrested for [allegedly] breaking his girlfriend's neck. I do think teams are going to be shy about committing to him. I don't think there's a likely scenario where he's paid a big long term deal. He's going to be looking at short contracts or at least short guarantees. This is also assuming he doesn't do something bad during the playoffs. He was about 3 neurons shy of throwing a haymaker on a kneeling Gobert.

I haven't looked at who has money but I kind of doubt he's going to be anybody's first option. Again, no idea what teams' appetites are for the guy. I think if we offer him a 1+1 early there's a reasonable chance he just takes it. That's another full year to rehab his image and capitalize on his chemistry with Giannis.

[slos]

By whom?

Not us, unfortunately. He's played himself out of Milwaukee. Would be nice to have AJ Johnson to take his spot in the next few years.

If Brooklyn doesn’t use their 91m of cap space on him, then I think there’s a really good chance he’s back.

Remember, we’ll likely have the full-mle available which starts at 14m.

After that, Detroit has 24m, but will almost assuredly look to bring back Beasley with how well the season went for both of them. If he gets double digits salary, up from the 6 he’s currently on, they wouldn’t be able to offer more than us.

Then the third team is NOP who will have 21m, but they are likely due for a big off-season of change, and I highly doubt they would prioritize a 25 year old mercurial guard as part of that.

There’s a handful of teams who could offer upper teens, but some of them are going to lock up their free agents first like Giddey and Santi.

TLDR: Brooklyn is the threat, after that, if he chooses to go somewhere else, it likely won’t be due to us being incapable of offering more money.

The bad news is that Detroit can bring back Beasley with the 8.8 mil room exception (3/27 is quite reasonable for him) and still keep their 24 mil in cap space.

The good news is that they probably throw the bag to Reid first. They need a shooting big way more than KPJ for their Cade/Ivey/Ausar/Duren lineup.

[German Athens]

If Brooklyn doesn’t use their 91m of cap space on him, then I think there’s a really good chance he’s back.

Remember, we’ll likely have the full-mle available which starts at 14m.

After that, Detroit has 24m, but will almost assuredly look to bring back Beasley with how well the season went for both of them. If he gets double digits salary, up from the 6 he’s currently on, they wouldn’t be able to offer more than us.

Then the third team is NOP who will have 21m, but they are likely due for a big off-season of change, and I highly doubt they would prioritize a 25 year old mercurial guard as part of that.

There’s a handful of teams who could offer upper teens, but some of them are going to lock up their free agents first like Giddey and Santi.

TLDR: Brooklyn is the threat, after that, if he chooses to go somewhere else, it likely won’t be due to us being incapable of offering more money.

That sounds like someone whistling past the graveyard.

What about it is whistling past the graveyard?

There's been an ambiguous fear spouted around here quite a bit of him getting a big offer in the off-season that we won't be able to compete with. Rather than simply being hopeless of our future prospects, like yourself, I've attempted to articulate who the threats actually are.

I've acknowledged that it's fully up to Brooklyn. If they want him, he's theirs.

Beyond that, it's Detroit at 24m, NOP at 21m, Chicago at 19m with Giddey as an RFA, Hou at 19m, Mem at 17m with Santi as an RFA, Was at 14m slightly above the MLE.

That's the full list of teams that spotrac projects with cap space available beyond the MLE, and, no, that doesn't leave me shaking in my boots.

[ReasonablySober]

You just listed eight teams who can offer more, in addition to however many teams who can offer the same amount as Milwaukee that aren't in, you know, Milwaukee. Teams with RFAs will sign guys into cap space before they take care of their restricted guys.

[slos]

Another good thing about KPJ is that he managed to get at least a 1 year fat pay check from Houston and he is now at 25 mil in career earnings. That said he is in a position to prioritise basketball over money at this point of his career.

If I was KPJ’s agent I start with locking the 4/60 full MLE from Milwaukee as a basis. If Brooklyn offers up to 4/100, KPJ might still go the bet yourself route and ask for 1/14/PO from Milwaukee with a promise for a maximum extension.

If Brooklyn offers more, **** basketball and take the bag. I would be genuinely shocked with such an offer for KPJ after just 30 games in Milwaukee. I mean Giddey isn’t a lock for that much money with way more hype surrounding him.

[Dick Tate]

Players on one-year deals are going to come and go throughout the remainder of Giannis' time with the Bucks. It is what it is.

[paulpressey25]

It changes things if we go on a deep run with him as our de facto #2 option, but it's fair to wonder how much things can possibly change. Remember he was flagged as a major locker room problem and his big contract was only guaranteed for 1 year *before* he was arrested for [allegedly] breaking his girlfriend's neck. I do think teams are going to be shy about committing to him. I don't think there's a likely scenario where he's paid a big long term deal. He's going to be looking at short contracts or at least short guarantees. This is also assuming he doesn't do something bad during the playoffs. He was about 3 neurons shy of throwing a haymaker on a kneeling Gobert.

I haven't looked at who has money but I kind of doubt he's going to be anybody's first option. Again, no idea what teams' appetites are for the guy. I think if we offer him a 1+1 early there's a reasonable chance he just takes it. That's another full year to rehab his image and capitalize on his chemistry with Giannis.

This is the correct take IMO.

And if the Bucks go out in round one, most he will get is $10mm per year

[raferfenix]

KPJ blowing up here but then walking would be pretty rough.

The tear he's been on has been a ray of hope that we could retool around Giannis before it's too late.

Then again PP25 and emunney citing the level of risk we'd be putting into banking on this guy keeping it together is also our best chance at keeping him.