Trades and Transactions Thread - 2025 Cont'd

[spree2kawhi]

KAT had a negative net rating every year in the playoffs at the 5. And even last year in the playoffs when he was on the court without Gobert he was awful in those minutes. He’s only good when he’s next to a multi time DPOY player.

We’re 0-10 against the top 3 seeds and a big part of it was them targeting KAT on defense and neutralizing him by putting smaller players on him. He only shows up beating up on bad teams, like Mikal. Thats the harsh reality.

Net rating again huh you’ve shot yourself in the foot before with that one. You think it’s long enough ago but your cherry-picking antics don’t go unnoticed.

Do you realize that KAT basically has the same net-rtg as Giannis this year? Ouch. I guess “we need to get rid of Towns” then. Btw, Mikalikina, OG and Randle’s babysitter Anthony Edwards have the same net rating too. Actually our guys are slightly better than Ant and only .1 below Stephen Curry. As for Randle himself… you don’t want to know… but here it is: he’s basically Bobby Portis and Santi Aldama this year. And speaking of Randle, let’s not bring up playoff performances. Do you really wanna die on that hill again?

Bottom line is, no matter how much you try to spin it, Towns has been a very efficient basketball player for us. Start Mitch over Hart, problem solved. Stop crying.

Why are you so butthurt? and once again, take it to the sht posting thread. You love deflecting to ex Knicks and derailing threads. Go troll somewhere else.

I merely disagree very much. I can tone it down now. But I don’t like the cherry-picking. You brought up net rating, so did I. Agree to disagree, I guess, so I’ll leave it at that now. Have a nice day.

Edit: I also haven’t deflected to ex-Knicks. You brought up KAT’s net rating next to Gobert. This year, an ex-Knick just happens to be in that position, so that’s why I mentioned it.

[WargamesX]

Pelicans trade Murphy, Jones , Olynyk, Hawkins
Knicks trade Towns and McBride

Brunson/Kolek
Bridges/Hawkins
Murphy/Hart
Anunoby/Jones
Mitch/Olynyk

That team would be fun to watch on defense

He hasn’t played 60 games the last two seasons. Like I get the appeal but the Knicks would need some draft picks coming back in this deal too.

[3toheadmelo]

Pelicans trade Murphy, Jones , Olynyk, Hawkins
Knicks trade Towns and McBride

Brunson/Kolek
Bridges/Hawkins
Murphy/Hart
Anunoby/Jones
Mitch/Olynyk

That team would be fun to watch on defense

He hasn’t played 60 games the last two seasons. Like I get the appeal but the Knicks would need some draft picks coming back in this deal too.

I wouldn’t mind getting picks back lol

[Spree2Houston]

That team would be fun to watch on defense

He hasn’t played 60 games the last two seasons. Like I get the appeal but the Knicks would need some draft picks coming back in this deal too.

I wouldn’t mind getting picks back lol

Yup draft picks would be sweet. We can replenish our war chest for a future trade.

[WargamesX]

He hasn’t played 60 games the last two seasons. Like I get the appeal but the Knicks would need some draft picks coming back in this deal too.

I wouldn’t mind getting picks back lol

Yup draft picks would be sweet. We can replenish our war chest for a future trade.

If that happened it would make sense. KAT it the best player in this trade. It just means the experiment with him in NYC wasn’t working. Talent wise this would be the equivalent of the pelicans trading for KAT.

[Chanel Bomber]

Yep, we need to get rid of KAT. No coach has been able to make him into a winner when he was at the 5. He’s the worst defensive center by far.

We won over 50 games with KAT playing almost exclusively at the 5.

The Timberwolves were one of the best teams in the NBA with Jimmy and KAT was playing exclusively at the 5 too. He was not the reason the Wolves were a losing franchise - the just lacked talent for most of his career there.

You can make the case that KAT should be playing the 4 or that KAT at the 5 puts a ceiling, without resorting to this kind of exaggeration, because it can easily be debunked. The notion he hasn't been a "winner" for us like basketball is just a binary and as if we didn't win 50+ games is a bit detached from reality.

KAT had a negative net rating every year in the playoffs at the 5. And even last year in the playoffs when he was on the court without Gobert he was awful in those minutes. He’s only good when he’s next to a multi time DPOY player.

We’re 0-10 against the top 3 seeds and a big part of it was them targeting KAT on defense and neutralizing him by putting smaller players on him. He only shows up beating up on bad teams, like Mikal. Thats the harsh reality.

Net rating is a lineup stat, not an individual stat.

Towns twice made the playoffs without Gobert and most of the Timberwolves players had a negative net rating because they lost in the first round to more talented teams.

Edwards had a worse net rating than him in the 2022 playoffs, does that mean he's not a winner either? That doesn't make any sense.

Besides for extreme values, you can't draw conclusions from net rating at face value because the data is hugely contextual.

And there's no denying the Wolves struggled without Gobert last playoffs, particularly against Dallas.

It's perfectly reasonable to argue the Knicks can't win a championship with KAT at the 5. But to categorically say he's not a "winner" at the 5 when we just won 51 games (the most since 2013) with him playing that position isn't convincing to say the least. I would say it's pretty contradictory.

Again, I think your skepticism is warranted but you sometimes turn it into extreme black-and-white hot takes that actually hurt your underlying argument.

As far as any trades are concerned, KAT's an elite offensive player but if the idea is to improve the defense then trading him for the likes of Durant is certainly not going to fix the issue, only exacerbate it. If the Knicks keep Thibs, they will need to find some sort of rim protector or an elite defender with size. The other avenue is changing the coach, as some coaches like Udoka have managed to build a defense without rim protection.

[sol537]

Flipping KAT for a Jones/Murphy/pick package would be genius.

Dumars is going to be looking to make a splash. Hoping we can take advantage...

[sol537]

Yep, we need to get rid of KAT. No coach has been able to make him into a winner when he was at the 5. He’s the worst defensive center by far.

We won over 50 games with KAT playing almost exclusively at the 5.

The Timberwolves were one of the best teams in the NBA with Jimmy and KAT was playing exclusively at the 5 too. He was not the reason the Wolves were a losing franchise - the just lacked talent for most of his career there.

You can make the case that KAT should be playing the 4 or that KAT at the 5 puts a ceiling, without resorting to this kind of exaggeration, because it can easily be debunked. The notion he hasn't been a "winner" for us like basketball is just a binary and as if we didn't win 50+ games is a bit detached from reality.

KAT had a negative net rating every year in the playoffs at the 5. And even last year in the playoffs when he was on the court without Gobert he was awful in those minutes. He’s only good when he’s next to a multi time DPOY player.

We’re 0-10 against the top 3 seeds and a big part of it was them targeting KAT on defense and neutralizing him by putting smaller players on him. He only shows up beating up on bad teams, like Mikal. Thats the harsh reality.

100%

KAT's a nice player and all, but he's not a great fit with Brunson so one must go. It won't be Brunson.

We could try one more season with Mitch (or a different center) next to KAT under a new coach at the helm. It's a risk, but not a bad fall back plan if we can't find an ideal KAT trade.

[3toheadmelo]

We won over 50 games with KAT playing almost exclusively at the 5.

The Timberwolves were one of the best teams in the NBA with Jimmy and KAT was playing exclusively at the 5 too. He was not the reason the Wolves were a losing franchise - the just lacked talent for most of his career there.

You can make the case that KAT should be playing the 4 or that KAT at the 5 puts a ceiling, without resorting to this kind of exaggeration, because it can easily be debunked. The notion he hasn't been a "winner" for us like basketball is just a binary and as if we didn't win 50+ games is a bit detached from reality.

KAT had a negative net rating every year in the playoffs at the 5. And even last year in the playoffs when he was on the court without Gobert he was awful in those minutes. He’s only good when he’s next to a multi time DPOY player.

We’re 0-10 against the top 3 seeds and a big part of it was them targeting KAT on defense and neutralizing him by putting smaller players on him. He only shows up beating up on bad teams, like Mikal. Thats the harsh reality.

Net rating is a lineup stat, not an individual stat.

Towns twice made the playoffs without Gobert and most of the Timberwolves players had a negative net rating because they lost in the first round to more talented teams.

Edwards had a worse net rating than him in the 2022 playoffs, does that mean he's not a winner either? That doesn't make any sense.

Besides for extreme values, you can't draw conclusions from net rating at face value because the data is hugely contextual.

And there's no denying the Wolves struggled without Gobert last playoffs, particularly against Dallas.

It's perfectly reasonable to argue the Knicks can't win a championship with KAT at the 5. But to categorically say he's not a "winner" at the 5 when we just won 51 games (the most since 2013) with him playing that position isn't convincing to say the least. I would say it's pretty contradictory.

Again, I think your skepticism is warranted but you sometimes turn it into extreme black-and-white hot takes that actually hurt your underlying argument.

As far as any trades are concerned, KAT's an elite offensive player but if the idea is to improve the defense then trading him for the likes of Durant is certainly not going to fix the issue, only exacerbate it. If the Knicks keep Thibs, they will need to find some sort of rim protector or an elite defender with size. The other avenue is changing the coach, as some coaches like Udoka have managed to build a defense without rim protection.

You’re giving him way too much of a pass and you’re trying to change a narrative about him that simply isn’t true. His defense at the 5 has been well documented over the years on how it limits his team from translating into winning basketball.

Regardless of the defensive personnel around him, Towns-centered teams were glorified turnstiles for a large part of his early career. Minnesota ranked in the bottom 10 in defense for six straight seasons from 2015-16 to 2020-21, with their best performance coming in the year Towns missed almost half of their games.

Read on Twitter

His defensive rating in the post season every year at the 5 is god awful. And he was only a net positive the post season he played at the 4


And this year he’s actually been the worst defender by far against the top teams, which is why we’re 0-10 against contenders.

Going back to those games against top-10 offenses, Towns has allowed opponents in those games to shoot 63% from the field -- ranking 346th out of 346 players to contest at least 50 shots against those teams, per ESPN Research.

On layups and dunks in those games, Towns is allowing 70% shooting -- and opponents are shooting 60% overall on layups and dunks against him, which is the worst mark of any player to contest at least 300 of them.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Comparing sengun to KAT isn’t really comparable. Sengun took a massive leap on defense and he’s actually making opponents shoot -4.7% worse at the rim with a DFG% of 58% less than 5 feet at the rim. KAT on the other hand is making opponents shoot 2% better at the rim with an atrocious DFG% of 65% less than 5 feet at the rim. So while sengun isn’t an elite defender, he’s still miles ahead of KAT as a rim protector and he can switch much better.

You’re saying I’m going to the “extreme” but he is literally the worst defending 5 in the league. How can you ignore all of that data and still suggest he’s not holding us back when he’s at the 5? Like why do you think the Timberwolves paid a premium for Rudy Gobert?

If we trade KAT for KD I’m putting Mitch back as a starter for our rim protection.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

KAT had a negative net rating every year in the playoffs at the 5. And even last year in the playoffs when he was on the court without Gobert he was awful in those minutes. He’s only good when he’s next to a multi time DPOY player.

We’re 0-10 against the top 3 seeds and a big part of it was them targeting KAT on defense and neutralizing him by putting smaller players on him. He only shows up beating up on bad teams, like Mikal. Thats the harsh reality.

Net rating is a lineup stat, not an individual stat.

Towns twice made the playoffs without Gobert and most of the Timberwolves players had a negative net rating because they lost in the first round to more talented teams.

Edwards had a worse net rating than him in the 2022 playoffs, does that mean he's not a winner either? That doesn't make any sense.

Besides for extreme values, you can't draw conclusions from net rating at face value because the data is hugely contextual.

And there's no denying the Wolves struggled without Gobert last playoffs, particularly against Dallas.

It's perfectly reasonable to argue the Knicks can't win a championship with KAT at the 5. But to categorically say he's not a "winner" at the 5 when we just won 51 games (the most since 2013) with him playing that position isn't convincing to say the least. I would say it's pretty contradictory.

Again, I think your skepticism is warranted but you sometimes turn it into extreme black-and-white hot takes that actually hurt your underlying argument.

As far as any trades are concerned, KAT's an elite offensive player but if the idea is to improve the defense then trading him for the likes of Durant is certainly not going to fix the issue, only exacerbate it. If the Knicks keep Thibs, they will need to find some sort of rim protector or an elite defender with size. The other avenue is changing the coach, as some coaches like Udoka have managed to build a defense without rim protection.

You’re giving him way too much of a pass and you’re trying to change a narrative about him that simply isn’t true. His defense at the 5 has been well documented over the years on how it limits his team from translating into winning basketball.

Regardless of the defensive personnel around him, Towns-centered teams were glorified turnstiles for a large part of his early career. Minnesota ranked in the bottom 10 in defense for six straight seasons from 2015-16 to 2020-21, with their best performance coming in the year Towns missed almost half of their games.

Read on Twitter

His defensive rating in the post season every year at the 5 is god awful. And he was only a net positive the post season he played at the 4


And this year he’s actually been the worst defender by far against the top teams, which is why we’re 0-10 against contenders.

Going back to those games against top-10 offenses, Towns has allowed opponents in those games to shoot 63% from the field -- ranking 346th out of 346 players to contest at least 50 shots against those teams, per ESPN Research.

On layups and dunks in those games, Towns is allowing 70% shooting -- and opponents are shooting 60% overall on layups and dunks against him, which is the worst mark of any player to contest at least 300 of them.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Comparing sengun to KAT isn’t really comparable. Sengun took a massive leap on defense and he’s actually making opponents shoot -4.7% worse at the rim with a DFG% of 58% less than 5 feet at the rim. KAT on the other hand is making opponents shoot 2% better at the rim with an atrocious DFG% of 65% less than 5 feet at the rim. So while sengun isn’t an elite defender, he’s still miles ahead of KAT as a rim protector and he can switch much better.

You’re saying I’m going to the “extreme” but he is literally the worst defending 5 in the league. How can you ignore all of that data and still suggest he’s not holding us back when he’s at the 5? Like why do you think the Timberwolves paid a premium for Rudy Gobert?

If we trade KAT for KD I’m putting Mitch back as a starter for our rim protection.

You go on this long post about rim protection, then say this at the end.


Mitch is giving up 69.5% at the rim this year (71% when he starts), which is higher than KAT, he gave up 75% last season. So starting a 37 year old PF, next to a C that has played 48 games in 2 seasons is the plan? Word?

[3toheadmelo]

Net rating is a lineup stat, not an individual stat.

Towns twice made the playoffs without Gobert and most of the Timberwolves players had a negative net rating because they lost in the first round to more talented teams.

Edwards had a worse net rating than him in the 2022 playoffs, does that mean he's not a winner either? That doesn't make any sense.

Besides for extreme values, you can't draw conclusions from net rating at face value because the data is hugely contextual.

And there's no denying the Wolves struggled without Gobert last playoffs, particularly against Dallas.

It's perfectly reasonable to argue the Knicks can't win a championship with KAT at the 5. But to categorically say he's not a "winner" at the 5 when we just won 51 games (the most since 2013) with him playing that position isn't convincing to say the least. I would say it's pretty contradictory.

Again, I think your skepticism is warranted but you sometimes turn it into extreme black-and-white hot takes that actually hurt your underlying argument.

As far as any trades are concerned, KAT's an elite offensive player but if the idea is to improve the defense then trading him for the likes of Durant is certainly not going to fix the issue, only exacerbate it. If the Knicks keep Thibs, they will need to find some sort of rim protector or an elite defender with size. The other avenue is changing the coach, as some coaches like Udoka have managed to build a defense without rim protection.

You’re giving him way too much of a pass and you’re trying to change a narrative about him that simply isn’t true. His defense at the 5 has been well documented over the years on how it limits his team from translating into winning basketball.

Regardless of the defensive personnel around him, Towns-centered teams were glorified turnstiles for a large part of his early career. Minnesota ranked in the bottom 10 in defense for six straight seasons from 2015-16 to 2020-21, with their best performance coming in the year Towns missed almost half of their games.

Read on Twitter

His defensive rating in the post season every year at the 5 is god awful. And he was only a net positive the post season he played at the 4


And this year he’s actually been the worst defender by far against the top teams, which is why we’re 0-10 against contenders.

Going back to those games against top-10 offenses, Towns has allowed opponents in those games to shoot 63% from the field -- ranking 346th out of 346 players to contest at least 50 shots against those teams, per ESPN Research.

On layups and dunks in those games, Towns is allowing 70% shooting -- and opponents are shooting 60% overall on layups and dunks against him, which is the worst mark of any player to contest at least 300 of them.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Comparing sengun to KAT isn’t really comparable. Sengun took a massive leap on defense and he’s actually making opponents shoot -4.7% worse at the rim with a DFG% of 58% less than 5 feet at the rim. KAT on the other hand is making opponents shoot 2% better at the rim with an atrocious DFG% of 65% less than 5 feet at the rim. So while sengun isn’t an elite defender, he’s still miles ahead of KAT as a rim protector and he can switch much better.

You’re saying I’m going to the “extreme” but he is literally the worst defending 5 in the league. How can you ignore all of that data and still suggest he’s not holding us back when he’s at the 5? Like why do you think the Timberwolves paid a premium for Rudy Gobert?

If we trade KAT for KD I’m putting Mitch back as a starter for our rim protection.

You go on this long post about rim protection, then say this at the end.


Mitch is giving up 69.5% at the rim this year (71% when he starts), which is higher than KAT, he gave up 75% last season. So starting a 37 year old PF, next to a C that has played 48 games in 2 seasons is the plan? Word?

You know damn well Mitch has been injured and that’s why his numbers look sus

But fine. Start Huk then. 53% DFG at the rim.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

You’re giving him way too much of a pass and you’re trying to change a narrative about him that simply isn’t true. His defense at the 5 has been well documented over the years on how it limits his team from translating into winning basketball.

Read on Twitter

His defensive rating in the post season every year at the 5 is god awful. And he was only a net positive the post season he played at the 4


And this year he’s actually been the worst defender by far against the top teams, which is why we’re 0-10 against contenders.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Comparing sengun to KAT isn’t really comparable. Sengun took a massive leap on defense and he’s actually making opponents shoot -4.7% worse at the rim with a DFG% of 58% less than 5 feet at the rim. KAT on the other hand is making opponents shoot 2% better at the rim with an atrocious DFG% of 65% less than 5 feet at the rim. So while sengun isn’t an elite defender, he’s still miles ahead of KAT as a rim protector and he can switch much better.

You’re saying I’m going to the “extreme” but he is literally the worst defending 5 in the league. How can you ignore all of that data and still suggest he’s not holding us back when he’s at the 5? Like why do you think the Timberwolves paid a premium for Rudy Gobert?

If we trade KAT for KD I’m putting Mitch back as a starter for our rim protection.

You go on this long post about rim protection, then say this at the end.


Mitch is giving up 69.5% at the rim this year (71% when he starts), which is higher than KAT, he gave up 75% last season. So starting a 37 year old PF, next to a C that has played 48 games in 2 seasons is the plan? Word?

You know damn well Mitch has been injured and that’s why his numbers look sus

But fine. Start Huk then. 53% DFG at the rim.

He wasn't injured last year when was registering 70%



There's no reality in all the infinite multiverses where Tom is starting Huk, and Mitch can't stay healthy or protect the rim at an elite level anymore. So, you've trapped yourself with this one.

[3toheadmelo]

You go on this long post about rim protection, then say this at the end.


Mitch is giving up 69.5% at the rim this year (71% when he starts), which is higher than KAT, he gave up 75% last season. So starting a 37 year old PF, next to a C that has played 48 games in 2 seasons is the plan? Word?

You know damn well Mitch has been injured and that’s why his numbers look sus

But fine. Start Huk then. 53% DFG at the rim.

He wasn't injured last year when was registering 70%



There's no reality in all the infinite multiverses where Tom is starting Huk, and Mitch can't stay healthy or protect the rim at an elite level anymore. So, you've trapped yourself with this one.

You asked me for a solution and I gave you one. You didn’t ask me what Thibs wants to do or what he would do. That’s irrelevant

[NoDopeOnSundays]

You know damn well Mitch has been injured and that’s why his numbers look sus

But fine. Start Huk then. 53% DFG at the rim.

He wasn't injured last year when was registering 70%



There's no reality in all the infinite multiverses where Tom is starting Huk, and Mitch can't stay healthy or protect the rim at an elite level anymore. So, you've trapped yourself with this one.

You asked me for a solution and I gave you one. You didn’t ask me what Thibs wants to do or what he would do. That’s irrelevant

Your solution is an impossibility, your plan doesn't work because it's a paradox. It's like asking Ferrari to make a Honda Accord competitor, I mean they probably could but they wont. Just like how you wanted to see more of Huk and KAT together, and Thibs shut that down before he even got hurt. This is a Saw game and you're trapped "Would you like to play a game"

[Chanel Bomber]

KAT had a negative net rating every year in the playoffs at the 5. And even last year in the playoffs when he was on the court without Gobert he was awful in those minutes. He’s only good when he’s next to a multi time DPOY player.

We’re 0-10 against the top 3 seeds and a big part of it was them targeting KAT on defense and neutralizing him by putting smaller players on him. He only shows up beating up on bad teams, like Mikal. Thats the harsh reality.

Net rating is a lineup stat, not an individual stat.

Towns twice made the playoffs without Gobert and most of the Timberwolves players had a negative net rating because they lost in the first round to more talented teams.

Edwards had a worse net rating than him in the 2022 playoffs, does that mean he's not a winner either? That doesn't make any sense.

Besides for extreme values, you can't draw conclusions from net rating at face value because the data is hugely contextual.

And there's no denying the Wolves struggled without Gobert last playoffs, particularly against Dallas.

It's perfectly reasonable to argue the Knicks can't win a championship with KAT at the 5. But to categorically say he's not a "winner" at the 5 when we just won 51 games (the most since 2013) with him playing that position isn't convincing to say the least. I would say it's pretty contradictory.

Again, I think your skepticism is warranted but you sometimes turn it into extreme black-and-white hot takes that actually hurt your underlying argument.

As far as any trades are concerned, KAT's an elite offensive player but if the idea is to improve the defense then trading him for the likes of Durant is certainly not going to fix the issue, only exacerbate it. If the Knicks keep Thibs, they will need to find some sort of rim protector or an elite defender with size. The other avenue is changing the coach, as some coaches like Udoka have managed to build a defense without rim protection.

You’re giving him way too much of a pass and you’re trying to change a narrative about him that simply isn’t true. His defense at the 5 has been well documented over the years on how it limits his team from translating into winning basketball.

Regardless of the defensive personnel around him, Towns-centered teams were glorified turnstiles for a large part of his early career. Minnesota ranked in the bottom 10 in defense for six straight seasons from 2015-16 to 2020-21, with their best performance coming in the year Towns missed almost half of their games.

Read on Twitter

His defensive rating in the post season every year at the 5 is god awful. And he was only a net positive the post season he played at the 4


And this year he’s actually been the worst defender by far against the top teams, which is why we’re 0-10 against contenders.

Going back to those games against top-10 offenses, Towns has allowed opponents in those games to shoot 63% from the field -- ranking 346th out of 346 players to contest at least 50 shots against those teams, per ESPN Research.

On layups and dunks in those games, Towns is allowing 70% shooting -- and opponents are shooting 60% overall on layups and dunks against him, which is the worst mark of any player to contest at least 300 of them.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Comparing sengun to KAT isn’t really comparable. Sengun took a massive leap on defense and he’s actually making opponents shoot -4.7% worse at the rim with a DFG% of 58% less than 5 feet at the rim. KAT on the other hand is making opponents shoot 2% better at the rim with an atrocious DFG% of 65% less than 5 feet at the rim. So while sengun isn’t an elite defender, he’s still miles ahead of KAT as a rim protector and he can switch much better.

You’re saying I’m going to the “extreme” but he is literally the worst defending 5 in the league. How can you ignore all of that data and still suggest he’s not holding us back when he’s at the 5? Like why do you think the Timberwolves paid a premium for Rudy Gobert?

If we trade KAT for KD I’m putting Mitch back as a starter for our rim protection.

If relying on Mitch at the 5 is a good option, why not keep Towns and play him at the 4 then?

None of those stats above say he's not a winning player. We won 50+ games with him at the 5. That's a lot of winning, even if it didn't translate against the top 3 teams. You're acting as if the Knicks had an awful season and were in the play-in tournament battling for their lives.

I mean it's clear you just don't want him on the team regardless at this point.

[Chanel Bomber]

He wasn't injured last year when was registering 70%



There's no reality in all the infinite multiverses where Tom is starting Huk, and Mitch can't stay healthy or protect the rim at an elite level anymore. So, you've trapped yourself with this one.

You asked me for a solution and I gave you one. You didn’t ask me what Thibs wants to do or what he would do. That’s irrelevant

Your solution is an impossibility, your plan doesn't work because it's a paradox. It's like asking Ferrari to make a Honda Accord competitor, I mean they probably could but they wont. Just like how you wanted to see more of Huk and KAT together, and Thibs shut that down before he even got hurt. This is a Saw game and you're trapped "Would you like to play a game"

I'm a Mitch fan but putting all your hopes in the Mitch basket at the 5 while trading KAT for a 37-year old who can't play the position at all is suicidal.

The loss of iHart shook the team completely. The question is do we trade whatever tradable players and assets we have left for a productive two-way center - they don't exactly grow on trees - or do we build on the 50-win season by keeping KAT as our primary 5 and tweaking the roster in other places.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

You asked me for a solution and I gave you one. You didn’t ask me what Thibs wants to do or what he would do. That’s irrelevant

Your solution is an impossibility, your plan doesn't work because it's a paradox. It's like asking Ferrari to make a Honda Accord competitor, I mean they probably could but they wont. Just like how you wanted to see more of Huk and KAT together, and Thibs shut that down before he even got hurt. This is a Saw game and you're trapped "Would you like to play a game"

I'm a Mitch fan but putting all your hopes in the Mitch basket at the 5 while trading KAT for a 37-year old who can't play the position at all is suicidal.

The loss of iHart shook the team completely. The question is do we trade whatever tradable players and assets we have left for a productive two-way center - they don't exactly grow on trees - or do we build on the 50-win season by keeping KAT as our primary 5 and tweaking the roster in other places.

Not only that, it's just year 1 of this core being together, you'd think we were 3 years of failures in with this group. We're going to have the tax MLE, can buy some 2nd rounders, make some trades along the edges and make a coaching change as well. There are ways to improve the team that don't include panic moves, which is what KD is.

Going into next season with a Mitch or Huk KD frontcourt is madness.

[3toheadmelo]

He wasn't injured last year when was registering 70%



There's no reality in all the infinite multiverses where Tom is starting Huk, and Mitch can't stay healthy or protect the rim at an elite level anymore. So, you've trapped yourself with this one.

You asked me for a solution and I gave you one. You didn’t ask me what Thibs wants to do or what he would do. That’s irrelevant

Your solution is an impossibility, your plan doesn't work because it's a paradox. It's like asking Ferrari to make a Honda Accord competitor, I mean they probably could but they wont. Just like how you wanted to see more of Huk and KAT together, and Thibs shut that down before he even got hurt. This is a Saw game and you're trapped "Would you like to play a game"

But I thought you said Thibs is getting fired after we lose to Boston. So why are you bringing up Thibs?

[3toheadmelo]

Net rating is a lineup stat, not an individual stat.

Towns twice made the playoffs without Gobert and most of the Timberwolves players had a negative net rating because they lost in the first round to more talented teams.

Edwards had a worse net rating than him in the 2022 playoffs, does that mean he's not a winner either? That doesn't make any sense.

Besides for extreme values, you can't draw conclusions from net rating at face value because the data is hugely contextual.

And there's no denying the Wolves struggled without Gobert last playoffs, particularly against Dallas.

It's perfectly reasonable to argue the Knicks can't win a championship with KAT at the 5. But to categorically say he's not a "winner" at the 5 when we just won 51 games (the most since 2013) with him playing that position isn't convincing to say the least. I would say it's pretty contradictory.

Again, I think your skepticism is warranted but you sometimes turn it into extreme black-and-white hot takes that actually hurt your underlying argument.

As far as any trades are concerned, KAT's an elite offensive player but if the idea is to improve the defense then trading him for the likes of Durant is certainly not going to fix the issue, only exacerbate it. If the Knicks keep Thibs, they will need to find some sort of rim protector or an elite defender with size. The other avenue is changing the coach, as some coaches like Udoka have managed to build a defense without rim protection.

You’re giving him way too much of a pass and you’re trying to change a narrative about him that simply isn’t true. His defense at the 5 has been well documented over the years on how it limits his team from translating into winning basketball.

Regardless of the defensive personnel around him, Towns-centered teams were glorified turnstiles for a large part of his early career. Minnesota ranked in the bottom 10 in defense for six straight seasons from 2015-16 to 2020-21, with their best performance coming in the year Towns missed almost half of their games.

Read on Twitter

His defensive rating in the post season every year at the 5 is god awful. And he was only a net positive the post season he played at the 4


And this year he’s actually been the worst defender by far against the top teams, which is why we’re 0-10 against contenders.

Going back to those games against top-10 offenses, Towns has allowed opponents in those games to shoot 63% from the field -- ranking 346th out of 346 players to contest at least 50 shots against those teams, per ESPN Research.

On layups and dunks in those games, Towns is allowing 70% shooting -- and opponents are shooting 60% overall on layups and dunks against him, which is the worst mark of any player to contest at least 300 of them.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Comparing sengun to KAT isn’t really comparable. Sengun took a massive leap on defense and he’s actually making opponents shoot -4.7% worse at the rim with a DFG% of 58% less than 5 feet at the rim. KAT on the other hand is making opponents shoot 2% better at the rim with an atrocious DFG% of 65% less than 5 feet at the rim. So while sengun isn’t an elite defender, he’s still miles ahead of KAT as a rim protector and he can switch much better.

You’re saying I’m going to the “extreme” but he is literally the worst defending 5 in the league. How can you ignore all of that data and still suggest he’s not holding us back when he’s at the 5? Like why do you think the Timberwolves paid a premium for Rudy Gobert?

If we trade KAT for KD I’m putting Mitch back as a starter for our rim protection.

If relying on Mitch at the 5 is a good option, why not keep Towns and play him at the 4 then?

None of those stats above say he's not a winning player. We won 50+ games with him at the 5. That's a lot of winning, even if it didn't translate against the top 3 teams. You're acting as if the Knicks had an awful season and were in the play-in tournament battling for their lives.

I mean it's clear you just don't want him on the team regardless at this point.

He’s never made it out the first round when he was at the 5, and those stats I just gave you showed you exactly why. It’s also why we’re 0-10 against the top 3 seeds. Boston specifically targeted him in every game. And that’s why you have no rebuttal for any of it.

It’s clear you like KAT a lot to the point you’re willing to look past the decade of evidence we have of him being a losing player at the 5 because you like him so much as a player. So this is going nowhere.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

You asked me for a solution and I gave you one. You didn’t ask me what Thibs wants to do or what he would do. That’s irrelevant

Your solution is an impossibility, your plan doesn't work because it's a paradox. It's like asking Ferrari to make a Honda Accord competitor, I mean they probably could but they wont. Just like how you wanted to see more of Huk and KAT together, and Thibs shut that down before he even got hurt. This is a Saw game and you're trapped "Would you like to play a game"

But I thought you said Thibs is getting fired after we lose to Boston. So why are you bringing up Thibs?

So you want Tom fired? Sounds like you're at an impasse here, because the only way out of your own hypothetical includes letting go of the coach to play the player you know he wont play.





Ps. I wont drop a dime this time, but a GIF with a curse word in it? I have never! Think of the children reading this forum, be better sir.