Teambuilding: How do you want to do it

[Dan Z]

Pistons won 44 games this year. Bulls pick could end up 15. You sure there's no way the Pistons think they're a rising team and surely win at least 45 next year, meaning they probably draft lower than 15, but a year later in a possibly weaker draft? Or would welcome an immediate rookie they like in this draft over whoever's available at 20 next year? I wouldn't presume to know what every GM thinks. But I bet most of them think they're great and the team will be better next year than it was this year. Or they're fired. We know Gm's will trade future picks for right now help, AK did it.

AK traded future picks for Vucevic and it was a mistake.

I bet you're right that Detroit thinks they will improve, but I still don't think that the Bulls pick is worth trading a future pick for. One, we have no idea if next years draft is worse. Two, what if Detroit doesn't do well (for whatever reason)? Is a player such as Asa Newell or Egor Denim worth that?

Keep in mind that Detroit already has a group of young players who are improving: Cade, Ivey, Holland, Duren and Thompson.

Once again, if you think you'll be better, you think you're probably drafting lower than 15 next year. So why would you not take 15 this year for pick next year? It's a year earlier, unless you think lower picks are better it's not that hard. It's a gamble, sure. Say our pick is 12. Do they still not want it, believing full well they won't be a lottery team next year? Same with Atlanta? Orlando? Nobody believes in their own team more than they believe in the Bulls to do a pick swap?

That doesn't matter because it's not worth the risk.

Yes, those teams believe that they'll improve, but i doubt they think the #12 pick (or 15) is all that valuable. At least not valuable enough to give up a future pick for it. For example, let's say that Atlanta does better next year. Right now their pick is at #15. Let's say next year its #17. Is it worth the gamble to trade #17 in 2026 for #12 this year? Not really.

[Infinity2152]

Those kind of deals don't come around often and when they do you have to have the assets to make it happen. The Suns basically backed themselves into a corner and that's why they did that deal and the Jazz had extra picks to do it

It's not something you can count on, but sure...ask other teams if they want to do it. I bet in most situations they'd say no. For example, if you're the GM of Detroit would you trade future picks to get something like the Bulls pick this year? I wouldn't.

Pistons won 44 games this year. Bulls pick could end up 15. You sure there's no way the Pistons think they're a rising team and surely win at least 45 next year, meaning they probably draft lower than 15, but a year later in a possibly weaker draft? Or would welcome an immediate rookie they like in this draft over whoever's available at 20 next year? I wouldn't presume to know what every GM thinks. But I bet most of them think they're great and the team will be better next year than it was this year. Or they're fired. We know Gm's will trade future picks for right now help, AK did it.

You say the Suns did it because they had to do it. You're right. If they had more time, maybe they get an even better return. There are other teams with multiple picks, Thunder and Nets have tons offhand. What if the Suns had more time, or were trading a pick considered more valuable than a Suns 2031 first? Don't know if our rep is better than the Suns, imagine a 2027 Bulls 1st have more trade value. We'll be doing trades pretty much every year. Those pick swaps could happen in conjunction with a player trade, they don't have to be straight pick for pick.

I didn't answer the 2nd part of your response...

It doesn't make sense to do a trade every year just so you can get another teams pick and not have your own. There will be times when that's not possible, a bad idea, or just dong a trade to do one.

Okay. Let's try this again. I didn't say make a trade every year to get another teams picks. For instance we do a trade right now with Coby and get two firsts. Now we have two firsts. We trade down in this draft and pick up an extra first. Now we have three firsts. We trade our 2027 pick to somebody for their 2028 pick in a Vucevic trade. We've picked up and swapped a lot of firsts already. We can use our own firsts in trade. The idea is to believe in your own team to get better every year more than other teams and stack picks from other teams. Plan to win deals instead of losing them. There are teams swapping tons of picks every single year, the whole it doesn't happen often is just old. It happens when GM's make it happen. Jazz had tons of picks. Spurs had multiple picks. Nets have tons of picks. Suns picked up 3 for 1. We can do it too.

Of course you're not going to win every time. But if you're starting from mediocre when you trade those future picks, and you build a strong good team, you'll win more often than you lose in those trades. I think you underestimate how many teams and organizations think they're better than us or we will be. We could be much better than the Bucks in 2-3 years and you know they want right now help, for instance. Find GM's that don't value picks much, like Knicks (and AK).

[Dan Z]

Pistons won 44 games this year. Bulls pick could end up 15. You sure there's no way the Pistons think they're a rising team and surely win at least 45 next year, meaning they probably draft lower than 15, but a year later in a possibly weaker draft? Or would welcome an immediate rookie they like in this draft over whoever's available at 20 next year? I wouldn't presume to know what every GM thinks. But I bet most of them think they're great and the team will be better next year than it was this year. Or they're fired. We know Gm's will trade future picks for right now help, AK did it.

You say the Suns did it because they had to do it. You're right. If they had more time, maybe they get an even better return. There are other teams with multiple picks, Thunder and Nets have tons offhand. What if the Suns had more time, or were trading a pick considered more valuable than a Suns 2031 first? Don't know if our rep is better than the Suns, imagine a 2027 Bulls 1st have more trade value. We'll be doing trades pretty much every year. Those pick swaps could happen in conjunction with a player trade, they don't have to be straight pick for pick.

I didn't answer the 2nd part of your response...

It doesn't make sense to do a trade every year just so you can get another teams pick and not have your own. There will be times when that's not possible, a bad idea, or just dong a trade to do one.

Okay. Let's try this again. I didn't say make a trade every year to get another teams picks. For instance we do a trade right now with Coby and get two firsts. Now we have two firsts. We trade down in this draft and pick up an extra first. Now we have three firsts. We trade our 2027 pick to somebody for their 2028 pick in a Vucevic trade. We've picked up and swapped a lot of firsts already. We can use our own firsts in trade. The idea is to believe in your own team to get better every year more than other teams and stack picks from other teams. Plan to win deals instead of losing them. There are teams swapping tons of picks every single year, the whole it doesn't happen often is just old. It happens when GM's make it happen. Jazz had tons of picks. Spurs had multiple picks. Nets have tons of picks. Suns picked up 3 for 1. We can do it too.

Sure the Bulls could trade Coby for picks and maybe get a pick by trading down, but I'm not sure about the other part of your idea. A team will trade an unknown 2027 pick for an unknown 2028 pick?

Yes, teams trade picks all the time. The reason why Utah has extra picks is because they traded Mitchell and Gobert for them. The Spurs traded Dejounte Murray for picks and made other moves such as Dillingham for a future pick, S&T DDR for a pick, etc. OKC got picks by trading Paul George and Chris Paul. Over the years they've also taken on bad contracts in order to draft picks in the process.

The Bulls could try to do that, but don't have a Murray, Mitchell or Gobert unless you're counting Coby as one. I doubt he has the same value as those three did (at the time they were traded...I guess you could make an argument for Murray, but I'm not sure I'd agree). They could also take on bad contracts to acquire picks too. However, AK doesn't seem interested in picks and I don't see him doing any of this.

[Infinity2152]

I didn't answer the 2nd part of your response...

It doesn't make sense to do a trade every year just so you can get another teams pick and not have your own. There will be times when that's not possible, a bad idea, or just dong a trade to do one.

Okay. Let's try this again. I didn't say make a trade every year to get another teams picks. For instance we do a trade right now with Coby and get two firsts. Now we have two firsts. We trade down in this draft and pick up an extra first. Now we have three firsts. We trade our 2027 pick to somebody for their 2028 pick in a Vucevic trade. We've picked up and swapped a lot of firsts already. We can use our own firsts in trade. The idea is to believe in your own team to get better every year more than other teams and stack picks from other teams. Plan to win deals instead of losing them. There are teams swapping tons of picks every single year, the whole it doesn't happen often is just old. It happens when GM's make it happen. Jazz had tons of picks. Spurs had multiple picks. Nets have tons of picks. Suns picked up 3 for 1. We can do it too.

Sure the Bulls could trade Coby for picks and maybe get a pick by trading down, but I'm not sure about the other part of your idea. A team will trade an unknown 2027 pick for an unknown 2028 pick?

Yes, teams trade picks all the time. The reason why Utah has extra picks is because they traded Mitchell and Gobert for them. The Spurs traded Dejounte Murray for picks and made other moves such as Dillingham for a future pick, S&T DDR for a pick, etc. OKC got picks by trading Paul George and Chris Paul. Over the years they've also taken on bad contracts in order to draft picks in the process.

The Bulls could try to do that, but don't have a Murray, Mitchell or Gobert unless you're counting Coby as one. I doubt he has the same value as those three did (at the time they were traded...I guess you could make an argument for Murray, but I'm not sure I'd agree). They could also take on bad contracts to acquire picks too. However, AK doesn't seem interested in picks and I don't see him doing any of this.

This was more a long-term plan, long term guidelines. Coby was an example. The Bulls right now? Keep this year's pick. I think the Bulls with Coby, Giddey, Matas, 2025 rookie and a star/superstar is really a solid core. This season if the right star becomes available, it's the perfect time to pounce for several reasons. We'll have already re-signed Giddey, Matas and 2025 rookie are on the rookie scale and Coby's still at $12 mill. Perfectly prepared to trade the 2027 pick and 2029 pick to get that player. We have expiring contracts plus Pat, enough to take a huge contract. We can fill out the roster then re-sign Coby over the cap. Perfectly fine paying tax for that team.

Not a lot of players to choose from to target, especially before knowing who we draft this year. Who's a superstar who's available at all and makes sense? Zion. Would take a shot at KD if it didn't cost too much. I'm testing the waters and starting conversations about Giannis quietly with the GM. But never thought Luka would be traded and the Heat started the season saying they weren't trading Butler. We talk about getting a number 1, who are the true number 1's in the league? Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Lebron, Steph, mitchell, Leonard, SGA. Most are too old and/or completely unavailable.

I think I'd try to take a serious shot at Anthony Edwards. Fine sending Coby out in that trade, I'm sure they say no, but I'm in their ear so much if they even think about it, I'm the first call. As long as I keep Giddey and Matas, we'll work the rest out. We have a strong trade relationship with them and he could demand out at some point. Maybe as soon as this year.

[Dan Z]

Okay. Let's try this again. I didn't say make a trade every year to get another teams picks. For instance we do a trade right now with Coby and get two firsts. Now we have two firsts. We trade down in this draft and pick up an extra first. Now we have three firsts. We trade our 2027 pick to somebody for their 2028 pick in a Vucevic trade. We've picked up and swapped a lot of firsts already. We can use our own firsts in trade. The idea is to believe in your own team to get better every year more than other teams and stack picks from other teams. Plan to win deals instead of losing them. There are teams swapping tons of picks every single year, the whole it doesn't happen often is just old. It happens when GM's make it happen. Jazz had tons of picks. Spurs had multiple picks. Nets have tons of picks. Suns picked up 3 for 1. We can do it too.

Sure the Bulls could trade Coby for picks and maybe get a pick by trading down, but I'm not sure about the other part of your idea. A team will trade an unknown 2027 pick for an unknown 2028 pick?

Yes, teams trade picks all the time. The reason why Utah has extra picks is because they traded Mitchell and Gobert for them. The Spurs traded Dejounte Murray for picks and made other moves such as Dillingham for a future pick, S&T DDR for a pick, etc. OKC got picks by trading Paul George and Chris Paul. Over the years they've also taken on bad contracts in order to draft picks in the process.

The Bulls could try to do that, but don't have a Murray, Mitchell or Gobert unless you're counting Coby as one. I doubt he has the same value as those three did (at the time they were traded...I guess you could make an argument for Murray, but I'm not sure I'd agree). They could also take on bad contracts to acquire picks too. However, AK doesn't seem interested in picks and I don't see him doing any of this.

This was more a long-term plan, long term guidelines. Coby was an example. The Bulls right now? Keep this year's pick. I think the Bulls with Coby, Giddey, Matas, 2025 rookie and a star/superstar is really a solid core. This season if the right star becomes available, it's the perfect time to pounce for several reasons. We'll have already re-signed Giddey, Matas and 2025 rookie are on the rookie scale and Coby's still at $12 mill. Perfectly prepared to trade the 2027 pick and 2029 pick to get that player. We have expiring contracts plus Pat, enough to take a huge contract. We can fill out the roster then re-sign Coby over the cap. Perfectly fine paying tax for that team.

Not a lot of players to choose from to target, especially before knowing who we draft this year. Who's a superstar who's available at all and makes sense? Zion. Would take a shot at KD if it didn't cost too much. I'm testing the waters and starting conversations about Giannis quietly with the GM. But never thought Luka would be traded and the Heat started the season saying they weren't trading Butler. We talk about getting a number 1, who are the true number 1's in the league? Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Lebron, Steph, mitchell, Leonard, SGA. Most are too old and/or completely unavailable.

I think I'd try to take a serious shot at Anthony Edwards. Fine sending Coby out in that trade, I'm sure they say no, but I'm in their ear so much if they even think about it, I'm the first call. As long as I keep Giddey and Matas, we'll work the rest out. We have a strong trade relationship with them and he could demand out at some point. Maybe as soon as this year.

If Giannis or Edwards become available it'll cost more than Coby and two picks. I guess the Bulls could go after Zion, but I wouldn't (too injury prone). Durant? Too old. I'm not against AK going after a top player, but it depends on who it is and what the cost is. For the most part I think he'd better off just moving forward with Giddey, Matas, Coby and the 2025 pick.

[eierluke]

Just my thought, open for discussion. 15 years team building on 2K and watching the league gives me some theories, some controversial.

1. Put together the best staff (GM) and coach that you can. Get ex-NBA players as coaches and make sure every young player is pushed.

2. ALWAYS go forward. Winning is a habit, losing is too. You can't lose on purpose with winning habits.

3. Never have your own first round pick. Have another team's first round pick every year. This makes rule 2 work. Evaluate the worst run franchises, ignore current talent unless they're really young and locked in. Trade for their future picks and stack. Do this right now, while we're still considered a mediocre franchise and our picks have value. Teams like Charlotte or the Wizards or Pistons. Once you keep winning, your future picks will drop in value. Lucky you swapped them already.

4. Expect and plan to be at least $10 mill, up to $25 mill into the luxury tax for a legitimate contender. Chicago is a big market city, and that is very reasonable. Let's say up to the first apron nowadays, which is $195.9 mill next year. Changes the whole way you build the team.

5. Ideal construction: 3 starters 25 or under, 2 vets. At least one starter on rookie contract, and the other starter either on rookie or second contract. This allows you to spend A LOT on the vet starters.

6. Have young players under contract between $10-$30 mill. Their value is more than their player value. As long as the player is not a complete ass, if he has potential, some team will think "We can fix him." I think we could fix Bol Bol, for instance. But those contracts are extremely valuable in star/superstar trades.

7. NEVER let a player leave for free without getting something back. For instance, Collins was a money dump. He just got here. But unless I plan to re-sign him or Vuc in FA, they both HAVE to go for expirings and at least a second apiece. I'm not giving up a second to move Jevon Carter. I'm convincing him he wants to be a free agent, I'm contacting every team in the league to build interest in him.

8. Don't compound an error with an error. Wouldn't have paid Pat $18 mill. Pat Will would get to be worth $18 mill or he would hate to be a Bull, lmao! If I have to take a haircut to move him, ok. But minimize the damage, maximize his value and make the move when you actually need the cap, not before.

9. Immediate goal is to get 2-3 number 2, number 3 type guys. You'll need at least 1, maybe two to make that superstar trade. If you don't want to lose Giddey or Matas, we need to keep Coby until the superstar trade arrives. What other valuable player piece do we have to include?

10. Trading is the best way to get that star. Cap space is almost always better utilized in trade. When the other team is forced to trade for various reasons, you can get way better deals than free agency. Almost every player is tradeable. Only ones that are not are unique ones, because you rarely get the value back. Giddey is far more untradeable than Matas to me for instance. Far easier to find a Matas type with that type of contributions to a Giddey type.

Interesting thoughts!
1) I dissagree, tomorrow i.E. we'll face Eric Spoilestra ... It'll be however good to have guys with NBA experience in your coaching team.
2) and 1!
3) interesing pov, I thought about this as a rule made by the NBA which should apply for every team (at the lottery 2025 event a team has to decide which teams record they want to own for the draft 2026, 1st choice by the team with the worst record and so on)

...

[sco]

I'll go back a reiterate that I think we need to find a #1 to move forward, but that's not something that we absolutely control. That said, I would thoroughly understand Coby's trade value this offseason. He's good enough that some GM may see him as a final piece and give us a Bridges type deal...he's not good enough to say "no" to 3+ firsts, and his value will never be higher.

If we keep Coby, I think we need to find elite defensive players at the non-Coby/Giddey/Matas starting positions. Ball and Smith are best suited for those roles next season, but Ball is way too injury prone to count on and Smith must nut-punch Billy every time he walks by to be buried so deep on the bench (how the f*ck is Pwill getting minutes over him at PF?).

[Infinity2152]

I'll go back a reiterate that I think we need to find a #1 to move forward, but that's not something that we absolutely control. That said, I would thoroughly understand Coby's trade value this offseason. He's good enough that some GM may see him as a final piece and give us a Bridges type deal...he's not good enough to say "no" to 3+ firsts, and his value will never be higher.

If we keep Coby, I think we need to find elite defensive players at the non-Coby/Giddey/Matas starting positions. Ball and Smith are best suited for those roles next season, but Ball is way too injury prone to count on and Smith must nut-punch Billy every time he walks by to be buried so deep on the bench (how the f*ck is Pwill getting minutes over him at PF?).

Yeah, I hope I'm not coming across as Coby is untradable. But if we trade Coby, we need a starting SG and I haven't seen that in any Coby trade talk. Coby's not perfect, but in all likelihood, trading Coby for picks means our talent is going backwards. It's easy to come up with a plan to get rid of Coby, now figure the plan to replace him without getting worse at SG.

Lot of my comments are specific to the Bulls at this moment in time. Summer 2026 we have Matas still on his rookie contract, our 2025 rookie on his rookie contract and an incoming 2026 rookie. Right now we have 45.5 mill committed summer 2026 for Williams, Ball, Smith, Matas, Phillips. Add $30 mill for Giddey, $5 mill for 2025 rookie, 2 mill for 2026 rookie, we're at around $82.5 mill. That's before re-signing Coby. Don't know what his cap hold is, but we can add a max contract player thru trade or FA if they're available.

If re-signing Coby takes us over the cap, we can operate as an over the cap team which has some limitations, but some benefits in terms of trade flexibility. The cap is $154. Luxury tax is $185 mill. A team with say $175 mill and one bad contract (Pat Will) has more trade power than a team with $152 mill and one bad contract. Assuming the contract is good, that's an extra $23 mill player to add to any trade.

Our last SG was $40 mill, All Star and we wanted him gone. Our current SG is making $12 mill, good, and many want him gone. Have to assume people expect us to draft a rookie SG and they're automatically going to be an NBA starter, because who are you replacing Coby with that's better at his price? What's it going to cost you to get him? Coby's better than replacement level, I need to see some realistic targets to replace him.

Clock to get great started ticking when we drafted Matas. Ticking louder when we re-sign Giddey to a big contract. Summer 2026 Matas will be going into his third year. 2025 rookie will have burned a cheap contract year. Burned a year of Giddey's contract. Having starters on rookie/second contract is a huge help for team building.

I agree we need elite defensive players to go with Coby and Giddey if we keep both. GET THEM. Coby and Giddey work well together, told you how I feel about fit. You're also right that Ball, Jalen Smith and even Pat Will fit those descriptions on the team right now, just hard to trust for various reasons. I'd wager you can get great/elite defensive players relatively cheap and easy compared to replacing a 23 pt scorer. Draft a rookie defensive player. Still have some hopes for Phillips as a defender, his physical profile and measurements are outstanding.

[Jcool0]

I'll go back a reiterate that I think we need to find a #1 to move forward, but that's not something that we absolutely control. That said, I would thoroughly understand Coby's trade value this offseason. He's good enough that some GM may see him as a final piece and give us a Bridges type deal...he's not good enough to say "no" to 3+ firsts, and his value will never be higher.

If we keep Coby, I think we need to find elite defensive players at the non-Coby/Giddey/Matas starting positions. Ball and Smith are best suited for those roles next season, but Ball is way too injury prone to count on and Smith must nut-punch Billy every time he walks by to be buried so deep on the bench (how the f*ck is Pwill getting minutes over him at PF?).

Yeah, I hope I'm not coming across as Coby is untradable. But if we trade Coby, we need a starting SG and I haven't seen that in any Coby trade talk.

Kevin Huerter can be the starting SG.

Last 21 games Bulls are 17-4 and he is averaging 14.7 ppg on 47/39/77 with 3.3 rebounds and 3.4 assists. Avg. +8.8 over that time.

[Infinity2152]

I'll go back a reiterate that I think we need to find a #1 to move forward, but that's not something that we absolutely control. That said, I would thoroughly understand Coby's trade value this offseason. He's good enough that some GM may see him as a final piece and give us a Bridges type deal...he's not good enough to say "no" to 3+ firsts, and his value will never be higher.

If we keep Coby, I think we need to find elite defensive players at the non-Coby/Giddey/Matas starting positions. Ball and Smith are best suited for those roles next season, but Ball is way too injury prone to count on and Smith must nut-punch Billy every time he walks by to be buried so deep on the bench (how the f*ck is Pwill getting minutes over him at PF?).

Yeah, I hope I'm not coming across as Coby is untradable. But if we trade Coby, we need a starting SG and I haven't seen that in any Coby trade talk.

Kevin Huerter can be the starting SG.

Last 21 games Bulls are 17-4 and he is averaging 14.7 ppg on 47/39/77 with 3.3 rebounds and 3.4 assists. Avg. +8.8 over that time.

Kevin Huerter contract expires at the same time as White's. You still have no SG next summer. And I don't think Huerter is as good as Coby and he's two years older. Re-sign Huerter for 4 yrs, he's 32 in the last year. Why not just trade Huerter? Because you undoubtedly get more trading White, meaning White's value is higher.

Has the same defensive limitations as White. I'm in favor of resigning Huerter to be back up SG/sixth man if he keeps playing well here, though. I do like fit. Huerter was a rookie at 24. Not a lot of upside to shoot for.

[ChettheJet]

I don't have a philosophy of wisdom to impart and expect to keep straight.

I draft and I keep my draft picks. Would I like to be able to trade UP from wherever I am? Sure but Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny don't always give me presents. The only way to move up is to give up, either a player another team covets or future picks.

Don't reach when drafting. Tyrus Thomas was a reach because he played a dozen college games, going way back Ronnie Lester was a reach he had bad knees and they never got better. Jay Williams was an excellent pick bad motorcycle luck. Elton Brand was a 10 year 20/10 guy probably going to the Hall of Fame the guy fell in love with high school kids and years of disaster. Of course the same guy drafted a Euro kid in the 2nd round and had to wait for Toni Kukoc to show up and he is in the Hall. Kirk Hinrich and Luol Deng were very good, solid picks the team reached in free agency and made at least two huge mistakes. Every 25 years or so the draft falls to you, the balls have your name on them an you get D Rose, you draft Jimmy Butler at #30 and he's still playing playoff basketball.

I look to have more consultants to stop stupid moves. Jim Boylan as coach should never have happened. A group of consultants should have overruled that bone headed decision. We've recovered but Lauri Markkanen found his way after getting a qualified coach. The Jimmy Butler trade should have netted the Bulls more than just Zach Lavine.

That' why no matter how many know it alls here want to ship Patrick Williams I'm going to find a role for him off the bench and give him a personal coach to make him into more than he's shown. I'm never giving up on a player because he wasn't an instant star only to see him blossom somewhere else.

That said, a player like Dalen Terry doesn't have more unrealized potential just because you spent a FRP on him. Based on what you've seen you wouldn't trade for him so don't hang into him.

I hate taking back on the downside older players with big contracts. All that does is raise pre season predictions and and hold the team back playing the old guy who is 5 years older than when he was a start. Beal, Lillard, Jrue Holiday, stop living in the past.

I don't know if AK should get credit now as much as he took the blame for the past but I like the way this roster has come together. Giddey and White are a great guard combo. Huerter is very good. Matas can keep developing. Collins does enough without trying to do more than he is capable. Smith is a good rotation player. I still think PWill can become that. They have so many guards that Lonzo doesn't have to rush back this year. I'd like to keep Tre Jones. I don't want to get caught thinking if they add a star and some veteran they'll be better. I want to add 4-5 players just like that list they have now and project those guys to blend together. That's the way I try to end up the season 10 games over .500 not just a great run to finish this season

[Jcool0]

Yeah, I hope I'm not coming across as Coby is untradable. But if we trade Coby, we need a starting SG and I haven't seen that in any Coby trade talk.

Kevin Huerter can be the starting SG.

Last 21 games Bulls are 17-4 and he is averaging 14.7 ppg on 47/39/77 with 3.3 rebounds and 3.4 assists. Avg. +8.8 over that time.

Kevin Huerter contract expires at the same time as White's. You still have no SG next summer. And I don't think Huerter is as good as Coby and he's two years older. Re-sign Huerter for 4 yrs, he's 32 in the last year. Why not just trade Huerter? Because you undoubtedly get more trading White, meaning White's value is higher.

Has the same defensive limitations as White. I'm in favor of resigning Huerter to be back up SG/sixth man if he keeps playing well here, though. I do like fit.

Coby White is 21st out of 22 players on Chicago with a -1.4 DBPM (the only worse player is Adama Sanogo who has played 21 minutes this year). He is also 523rd on the D-LEBRON metric (Luck-adjusted player Estimate using a Box prior Regularized ON-off) with a -1.12. Kevin Huerter is #282 with a -0.1 D-LEBRON rating and a -0.3 DBPM which is 8th just behind Dosunmu at -0.2.

Signing Huerter could go either way. If Coby were to be traded it would tip in his favor. But being 28 at the end of this deal he is going to want to sign one more "big" contract, so the Bulls aren't getting him for cheap. Huerter is to valuable to this team right now to trade because he wouldn't bring enough back to help Chicago (i dont see another GIddey situation happening). There is no way AK is in rebuilding mode anymore. Even though i would like for him to be. I have advocating trading Huerter for the rights to whoever gets Knueppel as it could be a win/win for both teams.

[Infinity2152]

Kevin Huerter can be the starting SG.

Last 21 games Bulls are 17-4 and he is averaging 14.7 ppg on 47/39/77 with 3.3 rebounds and 3.4 assists. Avg. +8.8 over that time.

Kevin Huerter contract expires at the same time as White's. You still have no SG next summer. And I don't think Huerter is as good as Coby and he's two years older. Re-sign Huerter for 4 yrs, he's 32 in the last year. Why not just trade Huerter? Because you undoubtedly get more trading White, meaning White's value is higher.

Has the same defensive limitations as White. I'm in favor of resigning Huerter to be back up SG/sixth man if he keeps playing well here, though. I do like fit.

Coby White is 21st out of 22 players on Chicago with a -1.4 DBPM (the only worse player is Adama Sanogo who has played 21 minutes this year). He is also 523rd on the D-LEBRON metric (Luck-adjusted player Estimate using a Box prior Regularized ON-off) with a -1.12. Kevin Huerter is #282 with a -0.1 D-LEBRON rating and a -0.3 DBPM which is 8th just behind Dosunmu at -0.2.

First half of the season, Huerter was coming off the bench and not doing great at that. He shot 30% from three, 41% FG with 7.9 pts, 1.7 assists and 2.8 rebounds in over 20 mins. On a better defensive team. Mostly against backups, he started 15 games. Coby started the season with a brand new point guard and Zach Lavine. At times, Coby, Lavine, and Giddey were probably all on the court at the same time. We have Vucevic as the paint defender. Their responsibilities and quality of matchup aren't remotely close. Coby's a top scorer many nights.

When Huerter came to the Bulls, Lavine was gone, Giddey took over and we started playing faster. This is not the same linup or playstyle Coby has been playing with his whole career. Put Huerter in a position where he needs to score 20+ a night and guard the starting SG for 30 minutes, his D-LEBRON and DBPM probably look way different.

[Jcool0]

Kevin Huerter contract expires at the same time as White's. You still have no SG next summer. And I don't think Huerter is as good as Coby and he's two years older. Re-sign Huerter for 4 yrs, he's 32 in the last year. Why not just trade Huerter? Because you undoubtedly get more trading White, meaning White's value is higher.

Has the same defensive limitations as White. I'm in favor of resigning Huerter to be back up SG/sixth man if he keeps playing well here, though. I do like fit.

Coby White is 21st out of 22 players on Chicago with a -1.4 DBPM (the only worse player is Adama Sanogo who has played 21 minutes this year). He is also 523rd on the D-LEBRON metric (Luck-adjusted player Estimate using a Box prior Regularized ON-off) with a -1.12. Kevin Huerter is #282 with a -0.1 D-LEBRON rating and a -0.3 DBPM which is 8th just behind Dosunmu at -0.2.

First half of the season, Huerter was coming off the bench and not doing great at that. He shot 30% from three, 41% FG with 7.9 pts, 1.7 assists and 2.8 rebounds in over 20 mins. On a better defensive team. Mostly against backups, he started 15 games. Coby started the season with a brand new point guard and Zach Lavine. At times, Coby, Lavine, and Giddey were probably all on the court at the same time. We have Vucevic as the paint defender. Their responsibilities and quality of matchup aren't remotely close. Coby's a top scorer many nights.

When Huerter came to the Bulls, Lavine was gone, Giddey took over and we started playing faster. This is not the same linup or playstyle Coby has been playing with his whole career.

We all know this. Coby has never been a good defender and will never be a good defender. Huerter will not get you killed on that end like Coby will. Does that mean you want him guarding the other teams best player? No. But hes better defender then Coby no matter what the role is.

[Infinity2152]

Coby White is 21st out of 22 players on Chicago with a -1.4 DBPM (the only worse player is Adama Sanogo who has played 21 minutes this year). He is also 523rd on the D-LEBRON metric (Luck-adjusted player Estimate using a Box prior Regularized ON-off) with a -1.12. Kevin Huerter is #282 with a -0.1 D-LEBRON rating and a -0.3 DBPM which is 8th just behind Dosunmu at -0.2.

First half of the season, Huerter was coming off the bench and not doing great at that. He shot 30% from three, 41% FG with 7.9 pts, 1.7 assists and 2.8 rebounds in over 20 mins. On a better defensive team. Mostly against backups, he started 15 games. Coby started the season with a brand new point guard and Zach Lavine. At times, Coby, Lavine, and Giddey were probably all on the court at the same time. We have Vucevic as the paint defender. Their responsibilities and quality of matchup aren't remotely close. Coby's a top scorer many nights.

When Huerter came to the Bulls, Lavine was gone, Giddey took over and we started playing faster. This is not the same linup or playstyle Coby has been playing with his whole career.

We all know this.

If you know this, why are you comparing them like they were remotely in the same situation? Using DBPM to compare players when one guards bench players for 20 minutes and one guards starters for 30+? Let's see, who's likely to look worse defensively? The guy guarding Donovan Mitchell or Darius Garland for 34 minutes, or the guy guarding Sam Merrill (20 min backup) for 20?

[Jcool0]

First half of the season, Huerter was coming off the bench and not doing great at that. He shot 30% from three, 41% FG with 7.9 pts, 1.7 assists and 2.8 rebounds in over 20 mins. On a better defensive team. Mostly against backups, he started 15 games. Coby started the season with a brand new point guard and Zach Lavine. At times, Coby, Lavine, and Giddey were probably all on the court at the same time. We have Vucevic as the paint defender. Their responsibilities and quality of matchup aren't remotely close. Coby's a top scorer many nights.

When Huerter came to the Bulls, Lavine was gone, Giddey took over and we started playing faster. This is not the same linup or playstyle Coby has been playing with his whole career.

We all know this.

If you know this, why are you comparing them like they were remotely in the same situation? Using DBPM to compare players when one guards bench players for 20 minutes and one guards starters for 30+?

What even are you trying to do here? If you want to argue about Coby's hidden defensive potential ill just bow out.

[Infinity2152]

We all know this.

If you know this, why are you comparing them like they were remotely in the same situation? Using DBPM to compare players when one guards bench players for 20 minutes and one guards starters for 30+?

What even are you trying to do here? If you want to argue about Coby's hidden defensive potential ill just bow out.

You brought up their defense!! What are you talking about??? All I said is they have the same defensive issues, then you posted DBPM and D-LEBRON, that's what started the defense talk. You're trying to use stats that show Huerter is a better defender, and I bring up he guards backups and Coby guards starters for much longer. I don't think EITHER are good defenders, do you want to argue about Huerter's defensive potential?

Argue about Coby's hidden potential, name one good thing I've said about Coby's defense? The fact that he guards starters?

Only reason I even mentioned defensive issues is that's usually a main reason people say to move Coby. If I'm moving Coby to get a better defensive SG, it's not going to be Huerter. That's all I'm saying. Even if he is slightly better, they're both below average.

Craziest thing is, same defensive issues had nothing to do with those stats. They're both 6'4, so short for SG, relatively short arms, average effort on defense, and not great moving laterally on defense. They're not built to be good defenders. They have the same issues, they will get outmatched by the same guys.

[Jcool0]

If you know this, why are you comparing them like they were remotely in the same situation? Using DBPM to compare players when one guards bench players for 20 minutes and one guards starters for 30+?

What even are you trying to do here? If you want to argue about Coby's hidden defensive potential ill just bow out.

You brought up their defense!! What are you talking about??? All I said is they have the same defensive issues, then you posted DBPM and D-LEBRON, that's what started the defense talk. You're trying to use stats that show Huerter is a better defender, and I bring up he guards backups and Coby guards starters for much longer. I don't think EITHER are good defenders, do you want to argue about Huerter's defensive potential?

Why are you saying i brought it up while also posting you started this? I was simply showing that no they do no have the same defensive issues. Huerter is going to play good fundamental defense and probably not much more. Maybe a B level Alex Caruso. Coby is never going to be a good defender & his numbers show he is one of the worst in the NBA. It is what it is.

[Infinity2152]

What even are you trying to do here? If you want to argue about Coby's hidden defensive potential ill just bow out.

You brought up their defense!! What are you talking about??? All I said is they have the same defensive issues, then you posted DBPM and D-LEBRON, that's what started the defense talk. You're trying to use stats that show Huerter is a better defender, and I bring up he guards backups and Coby guards starters for much longer. I don't think EITHER are good defenders, do you want to argue about Huerter's defensive potential?

Why are you saying i brought it up while also posting you started this? I was simply showing that no they do no have the same defensive issues. Huerter is going to play good fundamental defense and probably not much more. Maybe a B level Alex Caruso. Coby is never going to be a good defender & his numbers show he is one of the worst in the NBA. It is what it is.

Alex Caruso DBPM: .9, .7, 2.4, 2.5, 2.3, 3.3, 2.3, 3.9 across multiple teams.
Kevin Huerter DBPM: -.8, -.9, .4, -.7, -.3, -.4, -.2, 0, -.3 across multiple teams

Now tell me, does a negative DBPM show a good defender? Even an average one? Because using the stat you brought up, he's been negative almost every stop, including this one. His best years are .4 and 0. The 0 is this half season with the Kings, he's negative here, so he'll end up negative another season.

He might be slightly better than Coby but looking at those numbers, he's the F version of Caruso defensively. The guys is negative damn near every year.

As for defensive issues, they're both 6'4, under 200 lbs, short for position, not long, not laterally fast, don't have great defensive instincts and will be outmatched by the same guys. When they have to defend shooting guards, they will both have the same problems guarding say Anthony Edwards or Jaylen Brown or Donovan Mitchell.

[2weekswithpay]

Most of my thoughts are asset and archetype related.

1. If you aren't a contender or at least a top 6 seed, you should be trying to gain assets. Winning a title requires a great amount of luck, and you need to give yourself as many chances as possible at getting a high-impact star player through the draft or by trade.

2. Do not be overly invested in low-impact stars. Derozan, Ingram, and Dejounte Murray fit the bill. Good players, but they lack the complementary skills to elevate good teams, and they aren't offensive engines. The Hawks and Pelicans overvalued Murray's skill set and overpaid to get him. Both teams have suffered setbacks by trading for him.

3. The NBA changes fast, and being slow to recognize these changes is costly. Lavine could've been traded for value in the summer of 2023, but AK wanted too much at the time. A lot of people didn't want Austin Reaves as the main return in a Lavine trade a year ago. I don't think Reaves was ever available, but the 2nd apron made Reaves a more valuable asset last season, and fans didn't realize this.

4. Don't overpay for something you can find elsewhere. This is related to the Bridges trade and maybe Coby's future as a Bull. The 5 FRPs for Bridges was an overpay at the time, but worth it to put the Knicks on the same level as the Celtics. It didn't, and this season, you had DFS traded for 3 seconds, Deandre Hunter traded for 3 seconds, and Avdija traded for 2 firsts + 2 seconds.