The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1

[BobbieL]

I was trying to talk myself into a scenario of how to build a team around Booker if he is kept but I just don't see it

Kellan Olson had an article about trading Durant and one of them was Houston and adding Green. Which I thought was stupid as Green is redundant with Booker. Need to get away from the "activity" and get to "accomplishment.

GOK laid out some scenarios above but without draft picks - its not happening. I agree with Zach Lowe and Simmons in that Suns fans are going to be disappointed with the return for Durant.

So Ishbia is going to extend Booker, for ZERO reason with three years to go -- and build around a guy who has shown he is more a very good option as long as he is not accountable to elevate his teammates

I can't give too much energy to this team for awhile. I am very excited about the Chargers though and am looking more forward to the draft than I think I ever have.

Kinda how I feel too. It feels nice knowing at least my football team has good leadership in charge and a HC that is damn good at his job.

Suns are just such a hot mess. Terrible ownership, players that don’t like each other, arena filled with mainly corporate people as regular fans don’t want attend/can’t afford to do so.

This season was the least amount of games I’ve ever watched for the Suns. And that’s crazy because it means I watched more games during the Michael Beasley/Shannon Brown/Hedo Turkogku era.

Are you a Chargers fan too?

I am excited for what Hortiz and Harbaugh might do

i agree about watching the Suns - this team was just not fun to watch. And if being honest, since the trade for Durant, it has not been nearly as fun as the team that went to the Finals -e ven getting blasted by Dallas.

[BobbieL]

What do we have to give for Zion? Absolutely Nothing.

Well, it would require our front "orifice" actually being fairly creative and choosing to use some assets from whatever KD trade package we could beneficially pull. But his speculated value in trade being depreciated by his durability/ weight concerns put his current value in the range of maybe 2-3 good or young players and two firsts maybe???

So for the right package, knowing that the Pels front office is ready to move on, and Zion's value is currently fairly low, it could be reasonable that we could attain him?? It would behoove our front office to at least explore what kind of value their seeking/ hoping for and then maybe negotiate from there?

They also may want to get off of Murray's long term money too, so they could embrace a full rebuild around their core of Jones, Murphy, Missi, and Hawkins, etc. So maybe there could be something there for them with Beal soon to he a huge expiring ( If he could be amenable).

But even if he isn't, maybe wherever he would agree to go, some pieces from that team and perhaps some from a KD trade? For the combination of Zion and Murray somehow? OKC could offer significant young talent and picks ( have almost 30 picks to hurn through) in a KD trade and reroute some of that to the Pels?

I'd have to look into it some more though obviously...lol.

I don't hate the idea of Williamson if compared to say Markkanen or Towns.
I think its a buy low option -- and maybe can just use the Durant trade to get Zion
The contract isn't horrible if you can get him healthy
Booker and him - might work

Or like you said - flip Zion to another team and get those assets back

[Calvin Klein]

OG Anunoby, Mitchell Robinson, 1 unprotected first and 2 second rounders as minimum. KD is suns best player and MVP.

That’s not enough. Throw in Mikal and some more picks. Then we can start talking.

they laugh and hang up

[Saberestar]

What do we have to give for Zion? Absolutely Nothing.

Well, it would require our front "orifice" actually being fairly creative and choosing to use some assets from whatever KD trade package we could beneficially pull. But his speculated value in trade being depreciated by his durability/ weight concerns put his current value in the range of maybe 2-3 good or young players and two firsts maybe???

So for the right package, knowing that the Pels front office is ready to move on, and Zion's value is currently fairly low, it could be reasonable that we could attain him?? It would behoove our front office to at least explore what kind of value their seeking/ hoping for and then maybe negotiate from there?

They also may want to get off of Murray's long term money too, so they could embrace a full rebuild around their core of Jones, Murphy, Missi, and Hawkins, etc. So maybe there could be something there for them with Beal soon to he a huge expiring ( If he could be amenable).

But even if he isn't, maybe wherever he would agree to go, some pieces from that team and perhaps some from a KD trade? For the combination of Zion and Murray somehow? OKC could offer significant young talent and picks ( have almost 30 picks to hurn through) in a KD trade and reroute some of that to the Pels?

I'd have to look into it some more though obviously...lol.

I don't hate the idea of Williamson if compared to say Markkanen or Towns.
I think its a buy low option -- and maybe can just use the Durant trade to get Zion
The contract isn't horrible if you can get him healthy
Booker and him - might work

Or like you said - flip Zion to another team and get those assets back

I think the Pelicans will want picks or young players for Zion.

Out of the 3 teams (presumably) interested in KD Houston is the one with more picks and youngsters available by far so they could be the third team.

Houston gets KD.

Pelicans gets FVV, Tari Eason, Whitmore and 2027 unprotected pick (via Rockets).

Suns gets Zion, Olynyk and 2029 unprotected FRP (via Rockets).

Not in love with the trade but could be a decent one. Zion is a superhigh risk superhigh reward player.

[sunsfan1o1]

OG Anunoby, Mitchell Robinson, 1 unprotected first and 2 second rounders as minimum. KD is suns best player and MVP.

That’s not enough. Throw in Mikal and some more picks. Then we can start talking.

they laugh and hang up

And I say Bye and blocked.
And when they call back with a new number the price just went up.
OG, KAT, Robinson, unprotected 1st, 5 2nd round picks.
Don’t call me again

[Fo-Real]

Read on Twitter

His contract should be declining if he wants to help the franchise!!

[sunsbum]

That’s not enough. Throw in Mikal and some more picks. Then we can start talking.

they laugh and hang up

And I say Bye and blocked.
And when they call back with a new number the price just went up.
OG, KAT, Robinson, unprotected 1st, 5 2nd round picks.
Don’t call me again

Then all of the sudden you’re featured on national media everywhere as the clowniest GM alive, bringing much needed pressure off Ishbia for the moment but having suns fans begging for a James jones rehire.

[Fo-Real]

I was all for keeping Book, BUT NOT AS THE HIGHEST PAID GODDAMN PALYER IN THE LEAGUE!!!

[garrick]

Read on Twitter

His contract should be declining if he wants to help the franchise!!

He's angling to be the next Bradley Beal!

Just add a NTC in there and he'll be a Sun for life! Also mark my words a 33 year old Booker is going to be a shell of his former self probably averaging around 18-20 PPG on super low efficiency after losing a lot of his speed and lift and his game will not age gracefully.

[sunsfan1o1]

they laugh and hang up

And I say Bye and blocked.
And when they call back with a new number the price just went up.
OG, KAT, Robinson, unprotected 1st, 5 2nd round picks.
Don’t call me again

Then all of the sudden you’re featured on national media everywhere as the clowniest GM alive, bringing much needed pressure off Ishbia for the moment but having suns fans begging for a James jones rehire.

Nico Harrison still exists. No one will ever replace him.
Knicks will just keep losing in the first or 2nd round.
Superstar for superstar or superstar for multiple unprotected 1sts.
Knicks have none.
So they’re lucky I’m even answering the phone to begin with.

[BobbieL]

Well, it would require our front "orifice" actually being fairly creative and choosing to use some assets from whatever KD trade package we could beneficially pull. But his speculated value in trade being depreciated by his durability/ weight concerns put his current value in the range of maybe 2-3 good or young players and two firsts maybe???

So for the right package, knowing that the Pels front office is ready to move on, and Zion's value is currently fairly low, it could be reasonable that we could attain him?? It would behoove our front office to at least explore what kind of value their seeking/ hoping for and then maybe negotiate from there?

They also may want to get off of Murray's long term money too, so they could embrace a full rebuild around their core of Jones, Murphy, Missi, and Hawkins, etc. So maybe there could be something there for them with Beal soon to he a huge expiring ( If he could be amenable).

But even if he isn't, maybe wherever he would agree to go, some pieces from that team and perhaps some from a KD trade? For the combination of Zion and Murray somehow? OKC could offer significant young talent and picks ( have almost 30 picks to hurn through) in a KD trade and reroute some of that to the Pels?

I'd have to look into it some more though obviously...lol.

I don't hate the idea of Williamson if compared to say Markkanen or Towns.
I think its a buy low option -- and maybe can just use the Durant trade to get Zion
The contract isn't horrible if you can get him healthy
Booker and him - might work

Or like you said - flip Zion to another team and get those assets back

I think the Pelicans will want picks or young players for Zion.

Out of the 3 teams (presumably) interested in KD Houston is the one with more picks and youngsters available by far so they could be the third team.

Houston gets KD.

Pelicans gets FVV, Tari Eason, Whitmore and 2027 unprotected pick (via Rockets).

Suns gets Zion, Olynyk and 2029 unprotected FRP (via Rockets).

Not in love with the trade but could be a decent one. Zion is a superhigh risk superhigh reward player.

I would rather have the rockets players

I just have a feeling ishbia is going style over substance

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

His contract should be declining if he wants to help the franchise!!

He's angling to be the next Bradley Beal!

Just add a NTC in there and he'll be a Sun for life! Also mark my words a 33 year old Booker is going to be a shell of his former self probably averaging around 18-20 PPG on super low efficiency after losing a lot of his speed and lift and his game will not age gracefully.

Listening to Bicklet and Marotta… they were okay giving the money but also things he needs to take steps forward

So my question why give him the money until he proves he is a better player

Ishbia just making noise

Booker is a good player but I can see him regressing hard

Chill and unbothered - it showed bud!!

[Slim Charless]

What do we have to give for Zion? Absolutely Nothing.

Well, it would require our front "orifice" actually being fairly creative and choosing to use some assets from whatever KD trade package we could beneficially pull. But his speculated value in trade being depreciated by his durability/ weight concerns put his current value in the range of maybe 2-3 good or young players and two firsts maybe???

So for the right package, knowing that the Pels front office is ready to move on, and Zion's value is currently fairly low, it could be reasonable that we could attain him?? It would behoove our front office to at least explore what kind of value their seeking/ hoping for and then maybe negotiate from there?

They also may want to get off of Murray's long term money too, so they could embrace a full rebuild around their core of Jones, Murphy, Missi, and Hawkins, etc. So maybe there could be something there for them with Beal soon to he a huge expiring ( If he could be amenable).

But even if he isn't, maybe wherever he would agree to go, some pieces from that team and perhaps some from a KD trade? For the combination of Zion and Murray somehow? OKC could offer significant young talent and picks ( have almost 30 picks to hurn through) in a KD trade and reroute some of that to the Pels?

I'd have to look into it some more though obviously...lol.

Maybe....

PHX: Durant-to OKC

NOP: Zion-to PHX

OKC: Caruso/Ousmane Dieng/Ishiah Joe/Topic-to NOP

I think it'd be smart for OKC to trade their players who don't play, but are due new deals soon. Keep the picks to replace those guys. Allows us to replace 1 star with another. On paper, Zion is the perfect guy to put next to Booker and the ages fit. ***IF*** he gets it together, then it can save the outcome of this team.

Would NOP accept that deal? They get a ton of youth to put around their star. I think this has more of a chance happening if the Pels get #3 or #4 If they get Harper then they have no use to add so much to their backcourt.

[Sunsdeuce]

What do we have to give for Zion? Absolutely Nothing.

Well, it would require our front "orifice" actually being fairly creative and choosing to use some assets from whatever KD trade package we could beneficially pull. But his speculated value in trade being depreciated by his durability/ weight concerns put his current value in the range of maybe 2-3 good or young players and two firsts maybe???

So for the right package, knowing that the Pels front office is ready to move on, and Zion's value is currently fairly low, it could be reasonable that we could attain him?? It would behoove our front office to at least explore what kind of value their seeking/ hoping for and then maybe negotiate from there?

They also may want to get off of Murray's long term money too, so they could embrace a full rebuild around their core of Jones, Murphy, Missi, and Hawkins, etc. So maybe there could be something there for them with Beal soon to he a huge expiring ( If he could be amenable).

But even if he isn't, maybe wherever he would agree to go, some pieces from that team and perhaps some from a KD trade? For the combination of Zion and Murray somehow? OKC could offer significant young talent and picks ( have almost 30 picks to hurn through) in a KD trade and reroute some of that to the Pels?

I'd have to look into it some more though obviously...lol.

Maybe....

PHX: Durant-to OKC

NOP: Zion-to PHX

OKC: Caruso/Ousmane Dieng/Ishiah Joe/Topic-to NOP

I think it'd be smart for OKC to trade their players who don't play, but are due new deals soon. Keep the picks to replace those guys. Allows us to replace 1 star with another. On paper, Zion is the perfect guy to put next to Booker and the ages fit. ***IF*** he gets it together, then it can save the outcome of this team.

Would NOP accept that deal? They get a ton of youth to put around their star. I think this has more of a chance happening if the Pels get #3 or #4 If they get Harper then they have no use to add so much to their backcourt.

History says that every single “what if” player never turns it around. Zion is Derek Coleman 2.0. Derek was considered to be the greatest power forward ever if he would stop eating, stop getting hurt and generally show an ounce of care. But he never did. Zion is never going to turn it around. Zion is a waste of time.

[Slim Charless]

Well, it would require our front "orifice" actually being fairly creative and choosing to use some assets from whatever KD trade package we could beneficially pull. But his speculated value in trade being depreciated by his durability/ weight concerns put his current value in the range of maybe 2-3 good or young players and two firsts maybe???

So for the right package, knowing that the Pels front office is ready to move on, and Zion's value is currently fairly low, it could be reasonable that we could attain him?? It would behoove our front office to at least explore what kind of value their seeking/ hoping for and then maybe negotiate from there?

They also may want to get off of Murray's long term money too, so they could embrace a full rebuild around their core of Jones, Murphy, Missi, and Hawkins, etc. So maybe there could be something there for them with Beal soon to he a huge expiring ( If he could be amenable).

But even if he isn't, maybe wherever he would agree to go, some pieces from that team and perhaps some from a KD trade? For the combination of Zion and Murray somehow? OKC could offer significant young talent and picks ( have almost 30 picks to hurn through) in a KD trade and reroute some of that to the Pels?

I'd have to look into it some more though obviously...lol.

Maybe....

PHX: Durant-to OKC

NOP: Zion-to PHX

OKC: Caruso/Ousmane Dieng/Ishiah Joe/Topic-to NOP

I think it'd be smart for OKC to trade their players who don't play, but are due new deals soon. Keep the picks to replace those guys. Allows us to replace 1 star with another. On paper, Zion is the perfect guy to put next to Booker and the ages fit. ***IF*** he gets it together, then it can save the outcome of this team.

Would NOP accept that deal? They get a ton of youth to put around their star. I think this has more of a chance happening if the Pels get #3 or #4 If they get Harper then they have no use to add so much to their backcourt.

History says that every single “what if” player never turns it around. Zion is Derek Coleman 2.0. Derek was considered to be the greatest power forward ever if he would stop eating, stop getting hurt and generally show an ounce of care. But he never did. Zion is never going to turn it around. Zion is a waste of time.

I am not saying we do it. Also the Pels have a ton of cap room, so we should also see if we can off-load Royce or Greyson in this deal too. I have no idea what to say about Zion. He has a ton of talent and cannot stay on the court.

[BobbieL]

Maybe....

PHX: Durant-to OKC

NOP: Zion-to PHX

OKC: Caruso/Ousmane Dieng/Ishiah Joe/Topic-to NOP

I think it'd be smart for OKC to trade their players who don't play, but are due new deals soon. Keep the picks to replace those guys. Allows us to replace 1 star with another. On paper, Zion is the perfect guy to put next to Booker and the ages fit. ***IF*** he gets it together, then it can save the outcome of this team.

Would NOP accept that deal? They get a ton of youth to put around their star. I think this has more of a chance happening if the Pels get #3 or #4 If they get Harper then they have no use to add so much to their backcourt.

History says that every single “what if” player never turns it around. Zion is Derek Coleman 2.0. Derek was considered to be the greatest power forward ever if he would stop eating, stop getting hurt and generally show an ounce of care. But he never did. Zion is never going to turn it around. Zion is a waste of time.

I am not saying we do it. Also the Pels have a ton of cap room, so we should also see if we can off-load Royce or Greyson in this deal too. I have no idea what to say about Zion. He has a ton of talent and cannot stay on the court.

My Zion to Phoenix is trying to think what ishbia would do

Something the creates news
It “looks” like they are trying to build around Booker

I just am not sure Zion is right with Booker
They need a MFer around Booker

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

A big two with a strong supporting utility ( blue collar/ dirtworker) cast around those players. The trick would be to somehow turn Beal into those supporting cast players which of course is made exceptionally difficult by his salary, NTC, and the fact that Ishbia carelessly gave away all of our draft picks and cap space for this failed experiment.

So we're really limited in any capacity towards incentives. How do we generate more then??

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

A big two with a strong supporting utility ( blue collar/ dirtworker) cast around those players. The trick would be to somehow turn Beal into those supporting cast players which of course is made exceptionally difficult by his salary, NTC, and the fact that Ishbia carelessly gave away all of our draft picks and cap space for this failed experiment.

So we're really limited in any capacity towards incentives. How do we generate more then??

Trade Booker
Trade Durant
Roll Beal out as the 2G

And let him expire in two years

Booker is a media/fan type move that might keep fans interested in being the 8th seed at best

It’s not about building a championship roster

Now I know you were asking around Booker but that’s the problem
Beal doesn’t get you anything even if you stretch him - maybe the MLE. Big deal

Allen and O’Neale won’t get much

Any trade picks

Hence I understand they are keeping Booker but they are delusional
In two years that Booker deal will be terrible and he will have 215m left to go

[Calvin Klein]

History says that every single “what if” player never turns it around. Zion is Derek Coleman 2.0. Derek was considered to be the greatest power forward ever if he would stop eating, stop getting hurt and generally show an ounce of care. But he never did. Zion is never going to turn it around. Zion is a waste of time.

Yep, he has shown no sign of changing his attitude which is the main problem here. Those people never turn it around.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Maybe....

PHX: Durant-to OKC

NOP: Zion-to PHX

OKC: Caruso/Ousmane Dieng/Ishiah Joe/Topic-to NOP

I think it'd be smart for OKC to trade their players who don't play, but are due new deals soon. Keep the picks to replace those guys. Allows us to replace 1 star with another. On paper, Zion is the perfect guy to put next to Booker and the ages fit. ***IF*** he gets it together, then it can save the outcome of this team.

Would NOP accept that deal? They get a ton of youth to put around their star. I think this has more of a chance happening if the Pels get #3 or #4 If they get Harper then they have no use to add so much to their backcourt.

History says that every single “what if” player never turns it around. Zion is Derek Coleman 2.0. Derek was considered to be the greatest power forward ever if he would stop eating, stop getting hurt and generally show an ounce of care. But he never did. Zion is never going to turn it around. Zion is a waste of time.

I am not saying we do it. Also the Pels have a ton of cap room, so we should also see if we can off-load Royce or Greyson in this deal too. I have no idea what to say about Zion. He has a ton of talent and cannot stay on the court.

Even though I don't see Zion as the next D Coleman for a number of reasons, he's much more dynamic! Better scorer, different position, and more versatile even if only moderately. And he has a much higher ceiling outcome if able to get it together.

But yes there are a lot of what ifs involved. I think it would actually make sense due to the number of weaknesses he could address while also not yet being super expensive on his current contract at around 40 million over the next three seasons.

Also, I'm not sure everyone is fully aware, but Zion's final three years of his extension beginning this next season are NON GUARANTEED!!! Due to his weight issues and durability/ discipline concerns. There's also inclusionary weigh-ins, etc.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/report-final-three-years-of-zion-williamsons-contract-no-longer-guaranteed

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/12/final-three-years-of-zion-williamsons-extension-no-longer-guaranteed.html


So he should be even more significantly aggressive/ motivated to get it together, so he wouldn't get waived by the team due to the triggered non guarantees in his extension. Overall the implied risk is greatly mitigated here!

We missed out on an aging Butler, but again, Zion would add an elite level dominant powerhouse "ALPHA" athlete that would easily address our needs for athleticism, physicality, killer instinct ( on the court). Basically a faux repeat of what the Barkley trade did for us.