The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1

[KdoubleDees23]

Well, it would require our front "orifice" actually being fairly creative and choosing to use some assets from whatever KD trade package we could beneficially pull. But his speculated value in trade being depreciated by his durability/ weight concerns put his current value in the range of maybe 2-3 good or young players and two firsts maybe???

So for the right package, knowing that the Pels front office is ready to move on, and Zion's value is currently fairly low, it could be reasonable that we could attain him?? It would behoove our front office to at least explore what kind of value their seeking/ hoping for and then maybe negotiate from there?

They also may want to get off of Murray's long term money too, so they could embrace a full rebuild around their core of Jones, Murphy, Missi, and Hawkins, etc. So maybe there could be something there for them with Beal soon to he a huge expiring ( If he could be amenable).

But even if he isn't, maybe wherever he would agree to go, some pieces from that team and perhaps some from a KD trade? For the combination of Zion and Murray somehow? OKC could offer significant young talent and picks ( have almost 30 picks to hurn through) in a KD trade and reroute some of that to the Pels?

I'd have to look into it some more though obviously...lol.

I don't hate the idea of Williamson if compared to say Markkanen or Towns.
I think its a buy low option -- and maybe can just use the Durant trade to get Zion
The contract isn't horrible if you can get him healthy
Booker and him - might work

Or like you said - flip Zion to another team and get those assets back

I think the Pelicans will want picks or young players for Zion.

Out of the 3 teams (presumably) interested in KD Houston is the one with more picks and youngsters available by far so they could be the third team.

Houston gets KD.

Pelicans gets FVV, Tari Eason, Whitmore and 2027 unprotected pick (via Rockets).

Suns gets Zion, Olynyk and 2029 unprotected FRP (via Rockets).

Not in love with the trade but could be a decent one. Zion is a superhigh risk superhigh reward player.

Talk about fans being mad! Zion is horrible, he can give you 1/4 a season. We don't want Zion.

I would take FVV, Eason, Jabari smith over Zion any day of the week. Depth vs a natural valley granola bar frame

[King4Day]

OG Anunoby, Mitchell Robinson, 1 unprotected first and 2 second rounders as minimum. KD is suns best player and MVP.

That’s not enough. Throw in Mikal and some more picks. Then we can start talking.

they laugh and hang up

Knicks are 2nd apron. Best we can get is a single player from them. It'd have to be multi-team. Even then, KD isn't worth all that.

[Ghost of Kleine]

History says that every single “what if” player never turns it around. Zion is Derek Coleman 2.0. Derek was considered to be the greatest power forward ever if he would stop eating, stop getting hurt and generally show an ounce of care. But he never did. Zion is never going to turn it around. Zion is a waste of time.

Yep, he has shown no sign of changing his attitude which is the main problem here. Those people never turn it around.

Very true! But I think he might need a different environment away from some of the weaker influences that might he around him and a change of scenery could actually be the solution! Also maybe surround him (and Booker) with stronger, more dominant competitive presences??

But even with those concerns, for the reasons I've shared regarding his contract provisions/ non guarantees, he should be incredibly motivated and the implied risk of trading for him is honestly minimized significantly.


Because due to his extension (which kicks in this next season for 25-26) and the provisions included, his last 3 years are none guaranteed and the recieving team can waive him and not be on the hook for any of his remaining salary!

What else would we really have to lose here with having no futility anyways?? The risk becomes more acceptable as we're pretty much already at rock bottom. And if it pays off, then our whole trajectory is significantly changed. Zion should definitely be a legitimate target under our current conditions.

[thamadkant]

Zion Williamson is risky but... with a new team and maybe the hot Phoenix weather may force him to keep leaner than usual.

Thing is, he has low mileage.


But very risky.... high risk high reward player.

Only way to justify it is if Suns get some future picks, with him... maybe 2 picks that are likely to be between 16 and 24, where a good drafting GM can find rotation players that end up having 12 plus year long careers.

[sunsbum]

Hopefully the Booker extension extinguishes the trade chatter involving him on this board. It hasn’t so far but I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

[Djedefre]

Are you a Booker fan or a Suns fan? If it's the latter, you should sign a friggin petition to trade his a$$ outta here, not jab at people who are talking about it. Jesus...

[Ghost of Kleine]

That’s not enough. Throw in Mikal and some more picks. Then we can start talking.

they laugh and hang up

Knicks are 2nd apron. Best we can get is a single player from them. It'd have to be multi-team. Even then, KD isn't worth all that.

AI Overview

The New York Knicks are currently not over the second apron. They are projected to have $8,045,816 in second-apron space, meaning they are below the threshold.
Here's a breakdown:

Salary Cap:
The Knicks are over the salary cap, but under the second apron.

Second Apron Space:
They have $8,045,816 in second-apron space, meaning they are below the second apron threshold.

Impact of Brunson's Contract:
Jalen Brunson's contract decision played a key role in the Knicks staying under the second apron.

Trade Restrictions:
Teams above the second apron face significant trade restrictions.

So actually the Knicks are 8 million under the 2nd apron, and even sending out other players to a 3rd team ( prior to a KD trade) for smaller contracts or cap space and picks could get them more flexibility and assets to throw into a KD trade.

Of course we could just trade for a singular player in KAT which would work offensively, but KAT is just so very bad defensively that our outcome might actually be worse unless we can creatively surround Book and KAT with some high end defenders somehow using packages around Beal, Allen and O'neale.

Personally if getting KAT, I'd look at really aggressively trying to somehow get Isaac from Orlando and Sochan from San Antonio? That'd give us Dunn, Sochan and Isaac.

Then I'd look to trade back with Charlotte in the draft for their 33rd and 34th picks to take Rocco Zisarky ( Gobert 2.0) and Myles Byrd or JoJo Tugler at 34. Myles Byrd is a 6'7 version of Josh Green. And Tugler is a 6'8 version of Montrez Harrell with a ( 7'6 WINGSPAN)!!!

Really just load up on defensive players around Booker, KAT with a big two and depth pieces throughout the roster??

- Would Orlando do a Beal/ CLE 29' 1st for Isaac/ KCP/ Harris ( 7 million expiring) / Bidatze? ( Maybe pull a 2nd out of it) if lucky??

- Would San Antonio do an O'neale/ Richards for Sochan/ Wesley/ 26' 2nds deal? Because they could really use floor spacing, a quality low cost backup center and more vet experience around Wemby and because Sochan/ Wesley can't really shoot at all anyways?

Booker/ KCP/ Sochan/ KAT/ Isaac.
Paul/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Nance/ Bidatze
Gillespie/ Byrd/ KCP/ Bol/ Zisarky.

[bwgood77]

Can we trade Evan Sidery to the Timberwolves too?

I think we could get a pretty good deal from them, but if we are saying we are working with him, I don't know if I see him wanting to go there. I could see him being good with Miami, Dallas and maybe Houston.

What team has the best players to build around Booker with?

Now if Houston is offering the Suns draft picks - they move to the head of the class.

Granted, if keeping Booker -the goal should be cap space in 2027 and Dillon Brooks expires in 2027; Beal would be off the books in 2027 so with that it is moving on from O'Neale and Allen

The good thing is not only does Houston have our picks, but I think they ARE the best team for Booker. They have a GREAT defense, a great coach that players like, and a ton of athleticism. I'd take back Jabari Smith or Tari Eason, our 3 picks and Dillon Brooks (or maybe FVV but he expires).

But I seriously doubt we trade him this summer. I am not sure if we could trade him at the trade deadline if he has that extension, but if so, we could get our 2027 and 2029 picks and maybe either the rookie they take this summer or one of their own picks, along with Jabari or Eason, Cam Whitmore and one of those vets.

The only problem would be that I don't know that Book would want to go there. Obviously he wants to compete but none of his "buddies" are there...and if we don't take Brooks back, he may not be a big fan of playing with him.

[schnakenpopanz]

they laugh and hang up

Knicks are 2nd apron. Best we can get is a single player from them. It'd have to be multi-team. Even then, KD isn't worth all that.

AI Overview

The New York Knicks are currently not over the second apron. They are projected to have $8,045,816 in second-apron space, meaning they are below the threshold.
Here's a breakdown:

Salary Cap:
The Knicks are over the salary cap, but under the second apron.

Second Apron Space:
They have $8,045,816 in second-apron space, meaning they are below the second apron threshold.

Impact of Brunson's Contract:
Jalen Brunson's contract decision played a key role in the Knicks staying under the second apron.

Trade Restrictions:
Teams above the second apron face significant trade restrictions.

So actually the Knicks are 8 million under the 2nd apron, and even sending out other players to a 3rd team ( prior to a KD trade) for smaller contracts or cap space and picks could get them more flexibility and assets to throw into a KD trade.

Of course we could just trade for a singular player in KAT which would work offensively, but KAT is just so very bad defensively that our outcome might actually be worse unless we can creatively surround Book and KAT with some high end defenders somehow using packages around Beal, Allen and O'neale.

Personally if getting KAT, I'd look at really aggressively trying to somehow get Isaac from Orlando and Sochan from San Antonio? That'd give us Dunn, Sochan and Isaac.

Then I'd look to trade back with Charlotte in the draft for their 33rd and 34th picks to take Rocco Zisarky ( Gobert 2.0) and Myles Byrd or JoJo Tugler at 34. Myles Byrd is a 6'7 version of Josh Green. And Tugler is a 6'8 version of Montrez Harrell with a ( 7'6 WINGSPAN)!!!

Really just load up on defensive players around Booker, KAT with a big two and depth pieces throughout the roster??

- Would Orlando do a Beal/ CLE 29' 1st for Isaac/ KCP/ Harris ( 7 million expiring) / Bidatze? ( Maybe pull a 2nd out of it) if lucky??

- Would San Antonio do an O'neale/ Richards for Sochan/ Wesley/ 26' 2nds deal? Because they could really use floor spacing, a quality low cost backup center and more vet experience around Wemby and because Sochan/ Wesley can't really shoot at all anyways?

Booker/ KCP/ Sochan/ KAT/ Isaac.
Paul/ Trent Jr/ Dunn/ Nance/ Bidatze
Gillespie/ Byrd/ KCP/ Bol/ Zisarky.

I really don't get all the Beal Trades. Why would any team would take on the worst contract of the league.
Only chance would be that the suns would attach a pick and/or take on longer contracts. Both sceanrios are near impossible right now.

[Slim Charless]

Zion Williamson is risky but... with a new team and maybe the hot Phoenix weather may force him to keep leaner than usual.

Thing is, he has low mileage.


But very risky.... high risk high reward player.

Only way to justify it is if Suns get some future picks, with him... maybe 2 picks that are likely to be between 16 and 24, where a good drafting GM can find rotation players that end up having 12 plus year long careers.

History says that every single “what if” player never turns it around. Zion is Derek Coleman 2.0. Derek was considered to be the greatest power forward ever if he would stop eating, stop getting hurt and generally show an ounce of care. But he never did. Zion is never going to turn it around. Zion is a waste of time.

Yep, he has shown no sign of changing his attitude which is the main problem here. Those people never turn it around.

Very true! But I think he might need a different environment away from some of the weaker influences that might he around him and a change of scenery could actually be the solution! Also maybe surround him (and Booker) with stronger, more dominant competitive presences??

But even with those concerns, for the reasons I've shared regarding his contract provisions/ non guarantees, he should be incredibly motivated and the implied risk of trading for him is honestly minimized significantly.


Because due to his extension (which kicks in this next season for 25-26) and the provisions included, his last 3 years are none guaranteed and the recieving team can waive him and not be on the hook for any of his remaining salary!

What else would we really have to lose here with having no futility anyways?? The risk becomes more acceptable as we're pretty much already at rock bottom. And if it pays off, then our whole trajectory is significantly changed. Zion should definitely be a legitimate target under our current conditions.

I'm not sure if those rumors of us prioritizing cap room over getting a haul in this KD trade are true. If they are then we'd have to gamble on a buy low project. Zion has basement level trade value now. I personally always thought that he does not wanna be in New Orleans and has not been trying as hard as he could because he wants out. Now THAT raises a whole nother bunch of questions but he might be more inclined to try hard in a different city.

Also his skill-set and ability to both handle and pass the ball could be massive here on a team with no PG. The ability to balance "Point Book" and "Point Zion" together would-in theory work. Meaning we can get a more defensive 3&D PG to put with those guys. Plus, maybe can get rid of 1 of our crappy deals to the Pels or Thunder as well. I do think KD has much more value then Zion, so hopefully we can get another something too.

Need to be rooting against OKC+HOU in these playoffs. Detroit and Orlando too actually lol.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I don't hate the idea of Williamson if compared to say Markkanen or Towns.
I think its a buy low option -- and maybe can just use the Durant trade to get Zion
The contract isn't horrible if you can get him healthy
Booker and him - might work

Or like you said - flip Zion to another team and get those assets back

I think the Pelicans will want picks or young players for Zion.

Out of the 3 teams (presumably) interested in KD Houston is the one with more picks and youngsters available by far so they could be the third team.

Houston gets KD.

Pelicans gets FVV, Tari Eason, Whitmore and 2027 unprotected pick (via Rockets).

Suns gets Zion, Olynyk and 2029 unprotected FRP (via Rockets).

Not in love with the trade but could be a decent one. Zion is a superhigh risk superhigh reward player.

Talk about fans being mad! Zion is horrible, he can give you 1/4 a season. We don't want Zion.

I would take FVV, Eason, Jabari smith over Zion any day of the week. Depth vs a natural valley granola bar frame

Apart from Zion's weight and durability issues, he's far from horrible putting up 24/ 7/ 5 even if not on elite efficiency, and at a lower contractual cost than any of our big three! Plus he's still only 24 yrs old putting up close to triple double numbers. Now yes, his durability and health discipline concerns are very valid!

But he's a top tier lebron level elite unstoppable athlete and an actual legitimate "alpha" level 1A star who's impossible to stop when getting to the rim. He'd be ideal for Booker to play off of due to his elite strength, athleticism, physicality and overall dominance and rim pressure he'd offer to open up the floor for Booker.

His gravity would be insane! Now I do agree with you that I'd otherwise much rather have the Houston package you mentioned ( sans Van Vleet of course) because I'd much prefer more young assets back like some combo of J Green, Smith Jr/ Whitmore or even Sheppard AND at least two of our picks back.

I didn't mention Eason because I just don't think there's any way they'd give him up. But that package you mentioned is pretty solid IF getting at least 2 of our firsts back. Otherwise I'd aggressively pursue a Zion trade for the reasons I've shared man.

*** Also the last 3 yrs of his contract (beginning this next season) are fully non guaranteed! That completely minimizes implied risk involved in trading for him.

[Saberestar]

Zion would be a risky move but no one can deny that the guy is a freaking monster that has the potential to be MVP.

[Saberestar]

The Phoenix Suns are expected to have an extensive, wide-ranging coaching search.

Several coaching candidates are expected to be in the mix, including potential first-time NBA head coaches, including Cleveland Cavaliers associate head coach Johnnie Bryant, Houston Rockets assistant coaches Royal Ivey and Ben Sullivan, Miami Heat associate head coach Chris Quinn, Dallas Mavericks assistants Sean Sweeney and Jared Dudley, etc.

Former head coaches Mike Brown and James Borrego are also expected to draw consideration for Phoenix’s coaching opening.

Brown ended Sacramento’s 16-year playoff drought in 2023 as Kings coach.

Borrego had back-to-back seasons in Charlotte, where the Hornets won 10 more games than the previous season before he went to the Pelicans as an associate head coach.

BYU coach Kevin Young could also garner interest after being in the running for the Suns job last offseason and was a favorite of star Devin Booker as an assistant coach. Young was a strong candidate to become head coach of the Brooklyn Nets before Jordi Fernandez got the job last offseason.

Another interesting subplot amid Phoenix’s coaching search is the future of general manager James Jones, who delivered the news along with Suns CEO Josh Bartelstein to Budenholzer that he was out as coach.

Jones is on an expiring contract, and the belief is his future is murky in Phoenix.

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-intel-pelicans-suns-kings-nuggets-and-76ers-front-office-and-coaching-changes/

[bullsaficianado]

Zion would be a risky move but no one can deny that the guy is a freaking monster that has the potential to be MVP.

If we have to trade Durant this might be the best we can get. Yes it's obviously very, very risky. It would have to be a 3 way trade.

[Jesus_H_Macy]

This franchise is just completely ****. It's **** crazy. Unless all we're shooting for every year for the rest of the decade is the play-in, which we probably still wouldn't even make, the ONLY option is to trade both Durant and Booker and get at minimum the next unprotected pick back. And if the news reports are to be believed, not only are we not going to trade Booker, we're going to give him a ridiculous extension, and then we're going to pay some team (how? with the meager assets we'll get back from trading KD?) to take Beal for....what reason? Just so he's not here anymore? Does the FO somehow think we're going to just wipe out the salary slots KD and Beal were taking up and then sign another superstar in free agency or something? Not happening. There is no plan here. Went all-in and completely **** their **** pants and it's all over now. There is no point to this team or franchise anymore. Why bother watching? Just to see Ryan Dunn develop? To watch Booker shoot under league average 3pt % again for however many years in a row? To watch Booker misused as a point guard again? There is just no point in this team existing for at least the next 5 years. The entire franchise is disgusting and pointless and hopeless. Someone mentioned it earlier but the 19 win season was honestly better than this. I've never just been done with the Suns before no matter how bad they were but I can't see any pathway to me watching any games next year. What for?

Years and years and years of bad value deals from that clown Jones and this is what we're left with. The only thing that dude has done that's made any impact on winning is trading for CP3 (speaking of, CP3 is also the only reason this franchise has had any success since 09-10; he was the best player, not Booker) and looking back that was probably more luck than anything. I don't buy it that Ishbia made him trade all those assets for KD, or that Ishbia made him send out draft picks for Beal. Those deals are Jones specials. I don't fault their thinking, they were risks (that failed in the worst possible way imaginable) but the value in them was unacceptable. He'd be fine running a scouting department but that guy should never ever be involved in a trade negotiation. I'd be more excited about the pending boot to his ass out the **** door if I wasn't worried about Ishbia hiring Isaiah Thomas. At least Joe Dumars won't be available. **** this franchise for souring me so completely on something I loved.

[Jesus_H_Macy]

Sorry for the negative drop-in after not posting in forever but no one I know IRL cares about the Suns enough for this kind of rant, had to get it out. Thanks

[phnart]

This franchise is just completely ****. It's **** crazy. Unless all we're shooting for every year for the rest of the decade is the play-in, which we probably still wouldn't even make, the ONLY option is to trade both Durant and Booker and get at minimum the next unprotected pick back. And if the news reports are to be believed, not only are we not going to trade Booker, we're going to give him a ridiculous extension, and then we're going to pay some team (how? with the meager assets we'll get back from trading KD?) to take Beal for....what reason? Just so he's not here anymore? Does the FO somehow think we're going to just wipe out the salary slots KD and Beal were taking up and then sign another superstar in free agency or something? Not happening. There is no plan here. Went all-in and completely **** their **** pants and it's all over now. There is no point to this team or franchise anymore. Why bother watching? Just to see Ryan Dunn develop? To watch Booker shoot under league average 3pt % again for however many years in a row? To watch Booker misused as a point guard again? There is just no point in this team existing for at least the next 5 years. The entire franchise is disgusting and pointless and hopeless. Someone mentioned it earlier but the 19 win season was honestly better than this. I've never just been done with the Suns before no matter how bad they were but I can't see any pathway to me watching any games next year. What for?

Years and years and years of bad value deals from that clown Jones and this is what we're left with. The only thing that dude has done that's made any impact on winning is trading for CP3 (speaking of, CP3 is also the only reason this franchise has had any success since 09-10; he was the best player, not Booker) and looking back that was probably more luck than anything. I don't buy it that Ishbia made him trade all those assets for KD, or that Ishbia made him send out draft picks for Beal. Those deals are Jones specials. I don't fault their thinking, they were risks (that failed in the worst possible way imaginable) but the value in them was unacceptable. He'd be fine running a scouting department but that guy should never ever be involved in a trade negotiation. I'd be more excited about the pending boot to his ass out the **** door if I wasn't worried about Ishbia hiring Isaiah Thomas. At least Joe Dumars won't be available. **** this franchise for souring me so completely on something I loved.

I feel the same. I used to watch every game and lived and breathed Suns basketball, but the last few years have made me not care any more. I should not care more than the people who get paid to care. If they were fun to watch, maybe, but they aren’t. They have no heart.

[sunsbg]

Zion would be a risky move but no one can deny that the guy is a freaking monster that has the potential to be MVP.

If we have to trade Durant this might be the best we can get. Yes it's obviously very, very risky. It would have to be a 3 way trade.

After KD if they go after Zion may as well rename the team to Phoenix Gamblers. Bad gamblers. Zion has Beal's conditioning and desire to win.

[bigfoot]

The Phoenix Suns are expected to have an extensive, wide-ranging coaching search.

Several coaching candidates are expected to be in the mix, including potential first-time NBA head coaches, including Cleveland Cavaliers associate head coach Johnnie Bryant, Houston Rockets assistant coaches Royal Ivey and Ben Sullivan, Miami Heat associate head coach Chris Quinn, Dallas Mavericks assistants Sean Sweeney and Jared Dudley, etc.

Former head coaches Mike Brown and James Borrego are also expected to draw consideration for Phoenix’s coaching opening.

Brown ended Sacramento’s 16-year playoff drought in 2023 as Kings coach.

Borrego had back-to-back seasons in Charlotte, where the Hornets won 10 more games than the previous season before he went to the Pelicans as an associate head coach.

BYU coach Kevin Young could also garner interest after being in the running for the Suns job last offseason and was a favorite of star Devin Booker as an assistant coach. Young was a strong candidate to become head coach of the Brooklyn Nets before Jordi Fernandez got the job last offseason.

Another interesting subplot amid Phoenix’s coaching search is the future of general manager James Jones, who delivered the news along with Suns CEO Josh Bartelstein to Budenholzer that he was out as coach.

Jones is on an expiring contract, and the belief is his future is murky in Phoenix.

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-intel-pelicans-suns-kings-nuggets-and-76ers-front-office-and-coaching-changes/

Suns should just go hire Garrett Temple as the new head coach.

[bullsaficianado]

Zion would be a risky move but no one can deny that the guy is a freaking monster that has the potential to be MVP.

If we have to trade Durant this might be the best we can get. Yes it's obviously very, very risky. It would have to be a 3 way trade.

After KD if they go after Zion may as well rename the team to Phoenix Gamblers. Bad gamblers. Zion has Beal's conditioning and desire to win.

Which is why I would rather trade Beal for him, lol.