Masai Presser Live @ 11am

[PushDaRock]

An on ball guy on a bad team is capable of putting up numbers, albeit ineffeicently. A tale as old as time in the NBA. These guys cant scale up to be 1st options on a good team but also cant defend and shoot well enough to be complimentary players. He is overpaid as every single impact metric for every single season he's been in the league rates him out as a negative player. He's a much worse Demar Derozan

You said he is overpaid for his "current production". Telling me he is overpaid isn't saying much if you can't come up with an example of someone who is fairly paid in the same role he is in now.

What role? Third option on a bad team? Net negative player his whole career? He was drafted for potential and then paid for potential and he's still a negative player. That is overpaid. A guy like Ochai will be making 10ish mill per year and he's a more impactful player in his role than RJ is in any role

Well, he's actually the leading scorer on a bad team, not the 3rd option. So yes, what's fair value right now for a player like that and an example of a player in that role?

[brwnman]

It's unlikely but I hope there's a way to get out of IQ's contract this summer. Some rumors floating around moving RJ with Ingram's arrival, but I think moving IQ should be a priority. He's overpaid and quite frankly, not very good. His fit with Barnes is overrated, and he's much better suited for a 6th man role.

Yeah. I have been feeling this way for most of the season. Barrett is Barrett. He's just an extra scorer.

IQ seems like a bench scorer that we are trying to utilize as a starting PG (Lou Will type.......but I am not sure he is even as good as Lou Will). I think we will need a better starting PG to become a true contender in the east. PG is such an important role.

His PER36 numbers this year were 22.1 ppg, 7.5 apg and 4.6 rpg on 57 TS% (above average for PG's). If you want an upgrade from that, you're basically expecting a perennial All-Star or an All-NBA level player.

Per36 isn’t a great stat; especially for a player who has never approached that many minutes in any season. He was below league average in TS%. IQ isn’t just below an All-Star calibre player. He’s barely a starter/better as a 6th man type player.

PG is a deep position in the NBA and he’s a combo guard, so you have to compare him with PG & SG because he can’t run an offense as a pure PG in this league. His handles and vision are limited and he does more damage when game is out of hand against backups/when team is down big.

First year, he earned 32.5M and played 33 games. So he hasn’t earned his contract in year 1. Even with a flat contract in a rising cap, I don’t see him earning the value of his contract.

Raptors were bidding against themselves, they could have waited for another team to offer IQ a contract and matched it last offseason.

[mademan]

You said he is overpaid for his "current production". Telling me he is overpaid isn't saying much if you can't come up with an example of someone who is fairly paid in the same role he is in now.

What role? Third option on a bad team? Net negative player his whole career? He was drafted for potential and then paid for potential and he's still a negative player. That is overpaid. A guy like Ochai will be making 10ish mill per year and he's a more impactful player in his role than RJ is in any role

Well, he's actually the leading scorer on a bad team, not the 3rd option. So yes, what's fair value right now for a player like that and an example of a player in that role?

A player who has been a negative player as a starter every year of his career should no longer be a starter and, thus, paid like a bench player.

[PushDaRock]

Yeah. I have been feeling this way for most of the season. Barrett is Barrett. He's just an extra scorer.

IQ seems like a bench scorer that we are trying to utilize as a starting PG (Lou Will type.......but I am not sure he is even as good as Lou Will). I think we will need a better starting PG to become a true contender in the east. PG is such an important role.

His PER36 numbers this year were 22.1 ppg, 7.5 apg and 4.6 rpg on 57 TS% (above average for PG's). If you want an upgrade from that, you're basically expecting a perennial All-Star or an All-NBA level player.

Per36 isn’t a great stat; especially for a player who has never approached that many minutes in any season. He was below league average in TS%. IQ isn’t just below an All-Star calibre player. He’s barely a starter/better as a 6th man type player.

PG is a deep position in the NBA and he’s a combo guard, so you have to compare him with PG & SG because he can’t run an offense as a pure PG in this league. His handles and vision are limited and he does more damage when game is out of hand against backups/when team is down big.

First year, he earned 32.5M and played 33 games. So he hasn’t earned his contract in year 1. Even with a flat contract in a rising cap, I don’t see him earning the value of his contract.

Raptors were bidding against themselves, they could have waited for another team to offer IQ a contract and matched it last offseason.

lol well obviously if he's only going to play 33 games a year, he won't be worth it.

We paid him to be a starter and expect him to be a starter, so what would be a better stat to use to project him out on starter minutes than PER36 since he was injured this season and had his minutes limited?

League Average efficiency is at 57.6 TS% this year but that's greatly influenced by C's who are at 60.8 TS%. PG's are at 55.8 TS% and IQ is above that at 57 TS%. SG League Average is at 57.3 TS%, take the average of the 2 positions and he's still above league average at PG/SG.

When do you ever really see that approach work out well for a team when they force the player to go out and find a deal to match?

[mtcan]

I can guarantee if they get Flagg they will not be trading Barnes in the near future

Sure, then we can waste a few years while we find out that Barnes/Flagg is an even worse fit than Siakam/Barnes.

OR, we can be proactive and trade Barnes at what is likely the peak of his value (23 years old, start of a 5-year deal) and get back a haul and be competitive immediately. Have we already forgot Booker led a team to the finals as the best player?

If you can get Booker for Barnes you are automatically a title contender and can build around Flagg when you have him on a cheap deal before you gotta give him a max.

Not to mention you would still have the ability to use some combo of Barrett/Ingram/Quickley + all our picks to possibly grab a co-star for Book/Flagg to run with.

Yogurtproducer...

If you think Masai is going to move Scottie if they land Flagg, you are going to be in for disappointment. Let me remind you of what Masai said again:

As soon as we get those two phenomenal, incredible players, and we already have one in Scottie Barnes, or two and a half of them, or three of them, whatever it takes.

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

A 18 year old is NOT upending the existing team structure...no matter how good they say he WILL be...not on day 1 at least.

And I happen to love what I see from Flagg but let's be realistic to everyone saying that the moment Cooper becomes a Raptor that you are immediately making moves around him.

If anyone thinks that the Raptors are making wholesale changes the moment they draft a Cooper Flagg...they are:

a) extremely wishful

b) living in a cave for the last 10 years and have never followed the Toronto Raptors under Masai Ujiri's leadership

I know that some people around here just fall in love with the shiny new toy but Masai, Bobby, etc. will surely disappoint you.

NO ROOKIE WILL FORCE CHANGES ON DAY 1. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN UNDER THIS TEAM'S CURRENT LEADERSHIP.

[brwnman]

His PER36 numbers this year were 22.1 ppg, 7.5 apg and 4.6 rpg on 57 TS% (above average for PG's). If you want an upgrade from that, you're basically expecting a perennial All-Star or an All-NBA level player.

Per36 isn’t a great stat; especially for a player who has never approached that many minutes in any season. He was below league average in TS%. IQ isn’t just below an All-Star calibre player. He’s barely a starter/better as a 6th man type player.

PG is a deep position in the NBA and he’s a combo guard, so you have to compare him with PG & SG because he can’t run an offense as a pure PG in this league. His handles and vision are limited and he does more damage when game is out of hand against backups/when team is down big.

First year, he earned 32.5M and played 33 games. So he hasn’t earned his contract in year 1. Even with a flat contract in a rising cap, I don’t see him earning the value of his contract.

Raptors were bidding against themselves, they could have waited for another team to offer IQ a contract and matched it last offseason.

lol well obviously if he's only going to play 33 games a year, he won't be worth it.

We paid him to be a starter and expect him to be a starter, so what would be a better stat to use to project him out on starter minutes than PER36 since he was injured this season and had his minutes limited?

League Average efficiency is at 57.6 TS% this year but that's greatly influenced by C's who are at 60.8 TS%. PG's are at 55.8 TS% and IQ is above that at 57 TS%. SG League Average is at 57.3 TS%, take the average of the 2 positions and he's still above league average at PG/SG.

When do you ever really see that approach work out well for a team when they force the player to go out and find a deal to match?

We signed him to be a starter, but can he play starters minutes? Can he compete with other starters? Will he be effective against other starters? That’s why we can’t use Per36. You can’t just extrapolate his stats to Per36 when he’s never proven it. With Ingram, poeltl and Barnes playing next season and the expectation is not to tank, it probably means less usage for IQ.

You’re not forcing the player to go out. Before the Raps gave him 32.5 - he was projecting anywhere between 22.5-27.5 - split the difference and offer him 4 yr 100M.

There were also not very many teams with cap space ; there was no reason to overpay for IQ.

[PushDaRock]

What role? Third option on a bad team? Net negative player his whole career? He was drafted for potential and then paid for potential and he's still a negative player. That is overpaid. A guy like Ochai will be making 10ish mill per year and he's a more impactful player in his role than RJ is in any role

Well, he's actually the leading scorer on a bad team, not the 3rd option. So yes, what's fair value right now for a player like that and an example of a player in that role?

A player who has been a negative player as a starter every year of his career should no longer be a starter and, thus, paid like a bench player.

As a Raptor, he's at 21.3 ppg 6.3 rpg 4.9 apg on 57 TS%. That is his "current production". Can he replicate that on a good team? I don't know, that's tbd but I don't find his salary out of line with his "current production" at all.

You seem to be having an issue with him being in the role he is now, but that's a different issue than whether or not he's worth what he's producing right now because primary scorers even on bad teams are not generally getting paid less than what he is now unless they're on rookie deals.

[mtcan]

If we land Flagg he will be the clear first option and the teams franchise player.....Depending on how Barnes and him mesh on the court that could potentially make Barnes a trade option....Yeah i agree it won't happen fast but over time it would change the trajectory of where the team is headed...

I also think more so Barrett could be on the trade block this offseason because he will also want a big pay day and idk if we want to pay Barnes/Ingram 40 mill a year, Quickley 32 mill while Barrett potentially asks for 35ish mill....If you want the best value out of Barrett you trade him now rather than let his contract dwindle and move him on a contract year....

If RJ's head is in the clouds like this, i'd trade him today. He's overpaid for his current production, asking for a raise would get him on the block fast. I'd be looking to pay him less and be a 6th man and if he's not ok with that, he should be moved.

What are you expecting to pay someone averaging 21/6/5? How much is he overpaid by and who's a comparable to him that's being paid fairly?

I'm 1000% sure that some people around here don't actually watch games and love to throw advanced metrics just to sound smart.

By all accounts...even Masai himself said it today.......RJ has improved and is playing a different and better brand of basketball in Toronto than he did in NY. His passing has improved, he doesn't exhibit that tunnel vision that he was notorious for in NY, his defence improved immensely since the start of the season. He has done everything the team has asked him to do. Does his free throw shooting leave something to be desired...yes...but that can be worked on.

And yet he still gets this level of hate. This is why we can't have nice things.

And dude is just a good kid and hard worker. He's also extremely durable compared to the 2 guys taken ahead of him in his draft.

He is paid appropriately and if he wants to sign an extension that makes him a few million more per year (and not anywhere close to 45-50 million AAV)...it won't be a bad deal.

[Indeed]

What role? Third option on a bad team? Net negative player his whole career? He was drafted for potential and then paid for potential and he's still a negative player. That is overpaid. A guy like Ochai will be making 10ish mill per year and he's a more impactful player in his role than RJ is in any role

Well, he's actually the leading scorer on a bad team, not the 3rd option. So yes, what's fair value right now for a player like that and an example of a player in that role?

A player who has been a negative player as a starter every year of his career should no longer be a starter and, thus, paid like a bench player.

Funny that his production is better or equal to those being paid more on our team.

I dont mind we trade them all, but our team has worse contracts to worry about.

Afterall, it is really about the fit our next franchise, I dont think Barnes has the offense to be that, shall see who we draft this year

[mademan]

Well, he's actually the leading scorer on a bad team, not the 3rd option. So yes, what's fair value right now for a player like that and an example of a player in that role?

A player who has been a negative player as a starter every year of his career should no longer be a starter and, thus, paid like a bench player.

As a Raptor, he's at 21.3 ppg 6.3 rpg 4.9 apg on 57 TS%. That is his "current production". Can he replicate that on a good team? I don't know, that's tbd but I don't find his salary out of line with his "current production" at all.

You seem to be having an issue with him being in the role he is now, but that's a different issue than whether or not he's worth what he's producing right now because primary scorers even on bad teams are not generally getting paid less than what he is now unless they're on rookie deals.

no. My issue with him is that every year he has been in the league, he has been a negative player, by every impact metric there is. On ball player putting up meaningless below average league efficiency numbers on a bad team doesnt change that.

[Clutch0z24]

If RJ's head is in the clouds like this, i'd trade him today. He's overpaid for his current production, asking for a raise would get him on the block fast. I'd be looking to pay him less and be a 6th man and if he's not ok with that, he should be moved.

What are you expecting to pay someone averaging 21/6/5? How much is he overpaid by and who's a comparable to him that's being paid fairly?

I'm 1000% sure that some people around here don't actually watch games and love to throw advanced metrics just to sound smart.

By all accounts...even Masai himself said it today.......RJ has improved and is playing a different and better brand of basketball in Toronto than he did in NY. His passing has improved, he doesn't exhibit that tunnel vision that he was notorious for in NY, his defence improved immensely since the start of the season. He has done everything the team has asked him to do. Does his free throw shooting leave something to be desired...yes...but that can be worked on.

And yet he still gets this level of hate. This is why we can't have nice things.

And dude is just a good kid and hard worker. He's also extremely durable compared to the 2 guys taken ahead of him in his draft.

He is paid appropriately and if he wants to sign an extension that makes him a few million more per year (and not anywhere close to 45-50 million AAV)...it won't be a bad deal.

Its not about the deal its if you want to pay for a team of Barnes 40mill, Ingram 40 Mill, Barrett, 33-35M, Quickley 32M.....At that point your locked into that team with not much room to improve....Is that 4 really a team you see being a winner?....I don't personally.

[mademan]

Well, he's actually the leading scorer on a bad team, not the 3rd option. So yes, what's fair value right now for a player like that and an example of a player in that role?

A player who has been a negative player as a starter every year of his career should no longer be a starter and, thus, paid like a bench player.

Funny that his production is better or equal to those being paid more on our team.

I dont mind we trade them all, but our team has worse contracts to worry about.

Afterall, it is really about the fit our next franchise, I dont think Barnes has the offense to be that, shall see who we draft this year

Barnes at least does some things well enough where you can envision a future where his offensive role is decreased and he excels just defending, rebounding, transition and taking advantage of mismatches while hoping he learns to shoot at a current Draymond level. Though it could obv go wrong

We just have a large body of work for RJ, and he has never produced positive on court results even when he sometimes has pretty numbers (and to be clear, besides the last thirty-ish games of last season, he's always been below league average effeciency)

[mtcan]

What are you expecting to pay someone averaging 21/6/5? How much is he overpaid by and who's a comparable to him that's being paid fairly?

I'm 1000% sure that some people around here don't actually watch games and love to throw advanced metrics just to sound smart.

By all accounts...even Masai himself said it today.......RJ has improved and is playing a different and better brand of basketball in Toronto than he did in NY. His passing has improved, he doesn't exhibit that tunnel vision that he was notorious for in NY, his defence improved immensely since the start of the season. He has done everything the team has asked him to do. Does his free throw shooting leave something to be desired...yes...but that can be worked on.

And yet he still gets this level of hate. This is why we can't have nice things.

And dude is just a good kid and hard worker. He's also extremely durable compared to the 2 guys taken ahead of him in his draft.

He is paid appropriately and if he wants to sign an extension that makes him a few million more per year (and not anywhere close to 45-50 million AAV)...it won't be a bad deal.

Its not about the deal its if you want to pay for a team of Barnes 40mill, Ingram 40 Mill, Barrett, 33-35M, Quickley 32M.....At that point your locked into that team with not much room to improve....Is that 4 really a team you see being a winner?....I don't personally.

We won't know until we see them together now will we?

These are not terrible contracts in the era of the new CBA. Yes...8 years ago it was inconceivable that Mike Conley was making 40 million per but that's changed since. This is the new salary cap.

None of those contracts are unmovable. You could see a blockbuster trade for a guy making 60+ million by aggregating 2 of these guys and a bunch of picks/young players going the other way.

[PushDaRock]

Per36 isn’t a great stat; especially for a player who has never approached that many minutes in any season. He was below league average in TS%. IQ isn’t just below an All-Star calibre player. He’s barely a starter/better as a 6th man type player.

PG is a deep position in the NBA and he’s a combo guard, so you have to compare him with PG & SG because he can’t run an offense as a pure PG in this league. His handles and vision are limited and he does more damage when game is out of hand against backups/when team is down big.

First year, he earned 32.5M and played 33 games. So he hasn’t earned his contract in year 1. Even with a flat contract in a rising cap, I don’t see him earning the value of his contract.

Raptors were bidding against themselves, they could have waited for another team to offer IQ a contract and matched it last offseason.

lol well obviously if he's only going to play 33 games a year, he won't be worth it.

We paid him to be a starter and expect him to be a starter, so what would be a better stat to use to project him out on starter minutes than PER36 since he was injured this season and had his minutes limited?

League Average efficiency is at 57.6 TS% this year but that's greatly influenced by C's who are at 60.8 TS%. PG's are at 55.8 TS% and IQ is above that at 57 TS%. SG League Average is at 57.3 TS%, take the average of the 2 positions and he's still above league average at PG/SG.

When do you ever really see that approach work out well for a team when they force the player to go out and find a deal to match?

We signed him to be a starter, but can he play starters minutes? Can he compete with other starters? Will he be effective against other starters? That’s why we can’t use Per36. You can’t just extrapolate his stats to Per36 when he’s never proven it. With Ingram, poeltl and Barnes playing next season and the expectation is not to tank, it probably means less usage for IQ.

You’re not forcing the player to go out. Before the Raps gave him 32.5 - he was projecting anywhere between 22.5-27.5 - split the difference and offer him 4 yr 100M.

There were also not very many teams with cap space ; there was no reason to overpay for IQ.

Those salary projections were before he got traded here. He wanted 25m a year from the Knicks on an extension before the season when he was primarily a 6th man and didn't show much playmaking ability. There's zero chance he would have taken the same amount of money from us when he improved his stock last season both as a scorer and playmaker.

You don't have to use PER36 numbers if you don't want to but he's been fairly good as a starter in his career.

27 Starts with the Knicks: 21.7 ppg 5.0 rpg 4.9 apg on 58.9 TS%

71 Starts with the Raptors: 17.9 ppg 4.2 apg 6.3 apg on 56.7 TS%

[Clutch0z24]

Sure, then we can waste a few years while we find out that Barnes/Flagg is an even worse fit than Siakam/Barnes.

OR, we can be proactive and trade Barnes at what is likely the peak of his value (23 years old, start of a 5-year deal) and get back a haul and be competitive immediately. Have we already forgot Booker led a team to the finals as the best player?

If you can get Booker for Barnes you are automatically a title contender and can build around Flagg when you have him on a cheap deal before you gotta give him a max.

Not to mention you would still have the ability to use some combo of Barrett/Ingram/Quickley + all our picks to possibly grab a co-star for Book/Flagg to run with.

Yogurtproducer...

If you think Masai is going to move Scottie if they land Flagg, you are going to be in for disappointment. Let me remind you of what Masai said again:

As soon as we get those two phenomenal, incredible players, and we already have one in Scottie Barnes, or two and a half of them, or three of them, whatever it takes.

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

A 18 year old is NOT upending the existing team structure...no matter how good they say he WILL be...not on day 1 at least.

And I happen to love what I see from Flagg but let's be realistic to everyone saying that the moment Cooper becomes a Raptor that you are immediately making moves around him.

If anyone thinks that the Raptors are making wholesale changes the moment they draft a Cooper Flagg...they are:

a) extremely wishful

b) living in a cave for the last 10 years and have never followed the Toronto Raptors under Masai Ujiri's leadership

I know that some people around here just fall in love with the shiny new toy but Masai, Bobby, etc. will surely disappoint you.

NO ROOKIE WILL FORCE CHANGES ON DAY 1. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN UNDER THIS TEAM'S CURRENT LEADERSHIP.

Maybe not day 1...But at some point you have to make it make sense on the court....Just like when we drafted Barnes he became the guy we started to build around instead of Siakam/FVV ....Flagg has the higher upside and projects to be the better player than Barnes....If on the court they can't coexist a deal eventually will have to be made and a direction would have to be taken....I would love to see Barnes/Flagg be a dynamic Duo but they seem sim in play style.

[S.W.A.N]

Sure, then we can waste a few years while we find out that Barnes/Flagg is an even worse fit than Siakam/Barnes.

OR, we can be proactive and trade Barnes at what is likely the peak of his value (23 years old, start of a 5-year deal) and get back a haul and be competitive immediately. Have we already forgot Booker led a team to the finals as the best player?

If you can get Booker for Barnes you are automatically a title contender and can build around Flagg when you have him on a cheap deal before you gotta give him a max.

Not to mention you would still have the ability to use some combo of Barrett/Ingram/Quickley + all our picks to possibly grab a co-star for Book/Flagg to run with.

Yogurtproducer...

If you think Masai is going to move Scottie if they land Flagg, you are going to be in for disappointment. Let me remind you of what Masai said again:

As soon as we get those two phenomenal, incredible players, and we already have one in Scottie Barnes, or two and a half of them, or three of them, whatever it takes.

The fit is simply awful with two guys that are literally the same strengths and weaknesses. Siakam at least had isolation scoring chops but Scottie/Flagg would have very very little of that.

I would guarantee that if we got Flagg that Scottie would be moved within 24-36 months at most. And that quote means nothing. If Scottie is a phenomenal incredible player, what do we call Booker? Booker is simply just a better player and there is next to no evidence that Scottie will ever reach his level.

Y'all acting like I am saying give Scottie away. I am saying trade him for an all-nba player ffs


You can go back and find some Masai quotes about Derozan that are similar in belief. However, when a better player in Kawhi was available he was shipped out immediately. Masai wouldn't hesitate for a second to upgrade from Scottie if it made us a contender.

Zero chance we trade Scottie because of drafting Flagg.

The fit is great.

[PushDaRock]

What are you expecting to pay someone averaging 21/6/5? How much is he overpaid by and who's a comparable to him that's being paid fairly?

I'm 1000% sure that some people around here don't actually watch games and love to throw advanced metrics just to sound smart.

By all accounts...even Masai himself said it today.......RJ has improved and is playing a different and better brand of basketball in Toronto than he did in NY. His passing has improved, he doesn't exhibit that tunnel vision that he was notorious for in NY, his defence improved immensely since the start of the season. He has done everything the team has asked him to do. Does his free throw shooting leave something to be desired...yes...but that can be worked on.

And yet he still gets this level of hate. This is why we can't have nice things.

And dude is just a good kid and hard worker. He's also extremely durable compared to the 2 guys taken ahead of him in his draft.

He is paid appropriately and if he wants to sign an extension that makes him a few million more per year (and not anywhere close to 45-50 million AAV)...it won't be a bad deal.

Its not about the deal its if you want to pay for a team of Barnes 40mill, Ingram 40 Mill, Barrett, 33-35M, Quickley 32M.....At that point your locked into that team with not much room to improve....Is that 4 really a team you see being a winner?....I don't personally.

I would also like to get a Superstar on our roster that solves all our problems. Until that happens, we have to keep accumulating talent through other means and developing the players we have now.

[YogurtProducer]

Yogurtproducer...

If you think Masai is going to move Scottie if they land Flagg, you are going to be in for disappointment. Let me remind you of what Masai said again:

The fit is simply awful with two guys that are literally the same strengths and weaknesses. Siakam at least had isolation scoring chops but Scottie/Flagg would have very very little of that.

I would guarantee that if we got Flagg that Scottie would be moved within 24-36 months at most. And that quote means nothing. If Scottie is a phenomenal incredible player, what do we call Booker? Booker is simply just a better player and there is next to no evidence that Scottie will ever reach his level.

Y'all acting like I am saying give Scottie away. I am saying trade him for an all-nba player ffs


You can go back and find some Masai quotes about Derozan that are similar in belief. However, when a better player in Kawhi was available he was shipped out immediately. Masai wouldn't hesitate for a second to upgrade from Scottie if it made us a contender.

Zero chance we trade Scottie because of drafting Flagg.

The fit is great.

Great?

Two point forward types with questionable shooting are never a "great" fit.

Reality is both would be best paired with a lead ball handler who is an all-nba player.

[YogurtProducer]

I can guarantee if they get Flagg they will not be trading Barnes in the near future

Sure, then we can waste a few years while we find out that Barnes/Flagg is an even worse fit than Siakam/Barnes.

OR, we can be proactive and trade Barnes at what is likely the peak of his value (23 years old, start of a 5-year deal) and get back a haul and be competitive immediately. Have we already forgot Booker led a team to the finals as the best player?

If you can get Booker for Barnes you are automatically a title contender and can build around Flagg when you have him on a cheap deal before you gotta give him a max.

Not to mention you would still have the ability to use some combo of Barrett/Ingram/Quickley + all our picks to possibly grab a co-star for Book/Flagg to run with.

it's a pipe dream. Masai isn't trading Scottie after acquiring Flagg. If you are trading a 23 year old all-star locked up, you better get Giannis. That's a true difference maker, not Booker, who didn't even make the playoffs.

So is Scottie a difference maker?

Didnt Booker lead a team to the **** finals when his running mates were CP3 and Ayton?

[YogurtProducer]

Sure, then we can waste a few years while we find out that Barnes/Flagg is an even worse fit than Siakam/Barnes.

OR, we can be proactive and trade Barnes at what is likely the peak of his value (23 years old, start of a 5-year deal) and get back a haul and be competitive immediately. Have we already forgot Booker led a team to the finals as the best player?

If you can get Booker for Barnes you are automatically a title contender and can build around Flagg when you have him on a cheap deal before you gotta give him a max.

Not to mention you would still have the ability to use some combo of Barrett/Ingram/Quickley + all our picks to possibly grab a co-star for Book/Flagg to run with.

Yogurtproducer...

If you think Masai is going to move Scottie if they land Flagg, you are going to be in for disappointment. Let me remind you of what Masai said again:

As soon as we get those two phenomenal, incredible players, and we already have one in Scottie Barnes, or two and a half of them, or three of them, whatever it takes.

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

A 18 year old is NOT upending the existing team structure...no matter how good they say he WILL be...not on day 1 at least.

And I happen to love what I see from Flagg but let's be realistic to everyone saying that the moment Cooper becomes a Raptor that you are immediately making moves around him.

If anyone thinks that the Raptors are making wholesale changes the moment they draft a Cooper Flagg...they are:

a) extremely wishful

b) living in a cave for the last 10 years and have never followed the Toronto Raptors under Masai Ujiri's leadership

I know that some people around here just fall in love with the shiny new toy but Masai, Bobby, etc. will surely disappoint you.

NO ROOKIE WILL FORCE CHANGES ON DAY 1. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN UNDER THIS TEAM'S CURRENT LEADERSHIP.

To bad Denver didn't hang onto Nurkic so Jokic could take a back seat for a few more years. Or Utah didnt keep Kanter and let Gobert be the backup.

Barnes is good. I like Barnes. But if you get Flagg who definitely projects to be better it is a no brainer to upgrade your roster and get a better fit