Peak Only: Jordan/Dirk vs Kobe/Jokic

[Matt15]

Peak only, which duo would you rather have for todays game?

[scrabbarista]

Jordan/Dirk. Pretty close, though.

[One_and_Done]

Jokic has some serious luggage to carry. Honestly, Dirk and MJ might be better just because of that.

[rrravenred]

Going to back Kobe/Jokic slightly, given Kobe (I think) would offensively work better off Jokic than Dirk off Jordan.

Treating Dirk as a sort of super-Ho Grant would work, but have my doubts that Dirk's passing is good enough to take advantage of Jordan's offball movement. Not totally sold on Jordan as a top-level primary initiator. Also a question as to whether "peak" Dirk as the later career post-monster is quite as useful for spacing as the more athletic outside shooter he was earlier on.

The caveat is Kobe giving the ball up to Jokic as a mid/low-post initiator rather than ball-killing in the effort to find a shooting window. The two-man game could be quite tasty, having said that.

Having said all that, I rate Dirk/Jordan as a significantly better defensive combination (don't rate the post-Shaq Kobe on D as much as the awards would have it), even if they don't have hugely complementary strengths.

Not a runaway win for either party.

[EmpireFalls]

Kobe-Jokic.

Kobe stepping into pull-ups off Jokic screens all day would be an absolute death sentence for opponents, and with Jokic’s 3 ball now being elite, all a defense can do is hope they miss.

Moreover I just don’t like duplicative skills in my stars. While being completely different players, Dirk and MJ do most of their damage from midrange and want the ball in the same spots. A peak MJ is basically flawless in every aspect offensively but neither is a truly natural on-ball offensive engine or the sort of lightning fast defense-reader and executor that Jokic is. You wonder how that duo navigates initiating actions, and you also wonder how they share the ball effectively.

You have absolutely zero concerns projecting it with Jokic. Jokic is (by far) the least selfish player on this list and really doesn’t need the ball in his hands at all. He wouldn’t get frustrated by the lack of touches or shots. I just think that duo has everything.

Jordan-Jokic would be even better than Kobe, of course, I just think Jokic would basically be able to figure out the Kobe chemistry easier than Dirk/MJ would.

[metta-tonne]

feel like jokic and jordan are on a similar level and then i'd take kobe over dirk. Also you get more inside-outside coverage with jokic-kobe so team 1 by a decent bit

[Tim Lehrbach]

I'll go Jordan/Dirk here, but I love the selection of all four as players who it's easy to see fitting together to form gorgeous offenses.

Dirk was never a second option in his career, but we did see him primarily in a "finisher" role off Nash and then Kidd with less primacy/creation than a typical focal point. I think this suggests strong portability to playing off Jordan, who is perhaps sub-savant level as a playmaker but proved plenty adept at being a connector within the flow of an offense, can be the lead guard/point in the absence of another options, and, of course, was terrifying on-ball in the open court. All that to say, I expect that you build an awesome offense around Jordan first and he'll optimize Dirk (or nearly so) too. If you're getting late-prime Dirk, and you play the triangle or something like it (a reasonable guess since it maximizes the efficiency of Jordan's touches), you're probably also looking at a ton of "BBQ chicken" post-ups when the ball swings from strong to weak side and back; i.e., with both on the court and constant backscreens and skip passes, it's going to be near impossible to bring a double to both in the same possession.

Great point about Kobe feasting off Jokic DHO/pick-and-pass situations. I think Jokic is better optimized with lob threats and deep shooters vs. a midrange maestro, but it's not really even a quibble: a large reason both Kobe and Jokic produce elite offenses is that they can operate from anywhere effectively and cannot be schemed out of their comfort zone. If the few blips in Kobe's Finals career jump out in response to that last sentence, I'd argue that Jokic is too creative a passer (and floor spacer in his own right) to employ the occasionally successful strategy of muscling up Bryant and trying to make his catches tough and his touches distant from the basket. I have to think about that further, though. I just think a Jokic offense is likely too sophisticated and would exploit the imbalance of supercharged off-ball defense on a midrange wing -- somebody's getting open, or Jokic is going to pass them open.

Anyway, you've thrown out two combos that are really fun to imagine!

[KembaWalker]

Kobe/Jokic. Dirk is the least dynamic of this set. Jordan and Dirk would not coexist well personality wise whereas I think Jokic and Kobe would mesh perfectly

[Ol Roy]

Kobe/Jokic. Dirk is the least dynamic of this set. Jordan and Dirk would not coexist well personality wise whereas I think Jokic and Kobe would mesh perfectly

I don't recall Jordan not coexisting with anyone other than Bill Cartright.

[TheGOATRises007]

Kobe and Jokic mesh better i think

[Mavrelous]

Kobe/Jokic may be a better offensive duo, I'm not sure about it, but MJ/Dirk are easier to complete an elite team around.