Nico Harrison decides to double down on stupid

[MavsDirk41]

He’s a ****ing idiot. Ruined that whole franchise. Only way to save it - is a full cleanse. He has to go. Everyone. Start over. If they don’t - they did all this to move the team.

Couldn’t agree more

[Tomhomes33]

To me, the OBVIOUS reason Nico trade Luka is Nico’s EGO.
Luka was bigger than him, Luka was basically Mavs and rightfully so.
Nico couldn’t stand it
End of story

[SA37]

Spoiler:

Believe me when I tell you I am not trying to defend the Mavs' decision to trade Doncic. I just think there is a rationale, and it's probably a combination of Doncic's persona and the realities of locking the Mavs into the 2nd apron with Doncic and no flexibility to adjust the roster. We're seeing this play out almost in real time with Jokic in Denver and Booker in Phoenix.

Harrison and the Mavs have no choice but to double and triple down to infinity. You don't think Harrison is going to come out and say, "yeah, maybe I f'd that one up." If I had been in Harrison's shoes, I think I would have quit on the spot rather than be the guy who traded Doncic...TO THE LAKERS.

Prime Luka 5/345 baaaaad
33-35y „Street cloths“ 3/185 gooood

It was never an issue. Paying your superstar the supermax.

Denver has problems not because of Jokic, it’s because they gave Murray basically the same money

The problem in Phoenix isn’t Bookers contract, it’s Beals.

If you see the remaining years on Davis contract, then you know it’s another horsecrap argument. Mavs had plenty flexibility with all the contracts running out in 2026…

Again, speculating, but if the Mavs had real concerns about Doncic's commitment to improving his defense and to conditioning and taking care of himself, then being locked into him at ~$70M a season over 5 seasons is not where you want to be.

In any case, once you have 1-2 players locked into massive deals, it gets really hard to make changes. Phoenix is likely going to have to trade Durant because they can't deal Beal, they can't aggregate players in a trade, and I believe they can't use their exceptions. Denver is in the same boat, but with no Durant to trade.

Denver and Phoenix are not the only examples. Milwaukee (moved Middleton for...Kuzma) and Golden St (they had to let Klay Thompson go) are others. Minnesota is stuck in the 2nd apron and potentially going to become Phoenix 2.0. The Clippers had to let Paul George walk; Miami decided to let Jimmy Butler go. Philadelphia got stuck with Tobias Harris (and lost J Butler because of it). Welcome to the world with the 2nd apron.

Now, could Doncic have made a Jalen Brunson-inspired decision to take significantly less money to give the Mavs the flexibility? Yes. Was that likely? No.

-----------------------------------------------


The NBA's goal with the Draft and the salary cap has been to create parity. The goal of restricted FA and Bird Rights has always been to keep players with the team that drafted and developed them as much as possible.

We'll have to see where things stand in a few years when teams have had time to implement their strategies to deal with the 2nd apron, but I think the NBA is going to have to walk back some of the onerous restrictions of the 2nd apron or carve out some sort of exception, like the Designated Player slots that exist in the MLS. The NBA has already decided to continue with stretch provisions, but that doesn't go far enough.

It's just not going to be good for the NBA brand to have teams being broken up and having to make Harden (OKC) or Doncic-type trades. It's just going to create discontented stars and frustrated fan bases.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I really think there's no need for conspiracy and league involvement:
- Nico full of himself after the Mavs went to the finals
- Nico owes his career to Kobe, and sees him as a model for how a professional athlete should behave
- Nico doesn't like Luka, as a persona and as a professional basketball player
- Nico grabbing more and more power as Cuban sold and was left out from all basketball operations
- Nico pushing out from the organization all Luka guys and circling himself of yes man
- Nico foolishly sharing his frustrations with his 'friend" Pelinka
- Nico big fan of Anthony Davis, with whom he has a long timed relationship, and wants him in particular
- Pelinka smelling the opportunity and starts playing Nico like a violin, to the point Nico thinks he's the one who suggested the trade
- Nico drinking more and more of his own koolaid
- The new owner is not a basketball person, without his own network of people to ask, and he doesn't even think about consulting with Cuban (they must have an awful relationship)
- Nico mentions the 'biggest contract of all time" to a guy who doesn't understand the CBA, explains him that Luka is a fat alcoholic, unlike the real legends who were working all the time (like Shaq)
- The owner trusts his basketball expert, who was the main driving force for the Mavs reaching the finals
- Pelinka makes sure the trade remains secret because reasons, uses all the info Nico shared with him over the years to negotiate the price down
- Nico very proud for being the most powerful person in the organization. More than Cuban and more than Luka, now.

No need for conspiracies.
All I see is a narcissist, power hungry, incompetent person in a perfect storm situation without proper checks and balances.
It sounds like a metaphor of the US as a whole, actually, lol.

I think this is all very good, but the potential flaw is that I don’t know that billionaires are that sloppy with such a large chunk of their money and the potential risk of damage to their large investment.

Look, we've seen tons of dumb decisions driven by the owners.
These are guys who have been extremely successful in their ventures (Dumont not so much, he actually married into that family), often having a primary role in their companies. This success might also mean that they can be overconfident in the their own abilities, too proud to seek for help in a business they don't fully understand.
Not billionaires, but I have seen first hand extremely successful top managers fall in the same trap.
Not impossible that Dumont came to trust the very manipulative Nico, who convinced him about the necessity to keep this secret.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I really think there's no need for conspiracy and league involvement:
- Nico full of himself after the Mavs went to the finals
- Nico owes his career to Kobe, and sees him as a model for how a professional athlete should behave
- Nico doesn't like Luka, as a persona and as a professional basketball player
- Nico grabbing more and more power as Cuban sold and was left out from all basketball operations
- Nico pushing out from the organization all Luka guys and circling himself of yes man
- Nico foolishly sharing his frustrations with his 'friend" Pelinka
- Nico big fan of Anthony Davis, with whom he has a long timed relationship, and wants him in particular
- Pelinka smelling the opportunity and starts playing Nico like a violin, to the point Nico thinks he's the one who suggested the trade
- Nico drinking more and more of his own koolaid
- The new owner is not a basketball person, without his own network of people to ask, and he doesn't even think about consulting with Cuban (they must have an awful relationship)
- Nico mentions the 'biggest contract of all time" to a guy who doesn't understand the CBA, explains him that Luka is a fat alcoholic, unlike the real legends who were working all the time (like Shaq)
- The owner trusts his basketball expert, who was the main driving force for the Mavs reaching the finals
- Pelinka makes sure the trade remains secret because reasons, uses all the info Nico shared with him over the years to negotiate the price down
- Nico very proud for being the most powerful person in the organization. More than Cuban and more than Luka, now.

No need for conspiracies.
All I see is a narcissist, power hungry, incompetent person in a perfect storm situation without proper checks and balances.
It sounds like a metaphor of the US as a whole, actually, lol.

How is this any less conjecture than believing ownership made Nico the fall guy? A narrative based completely on imagination. Did someone call this list of made up scenarios 'Occam's Razor'? Some of you are unbelievably weird.

Because you guys are not clarifying what would be the point of that imaginary alternative scenario, in classical conspiracy thinking.
Who is driving this, The League to favor the Lakers? You understand that "The League" is just an association controlled by the 30 governors? You think they are all on board to favor the Lakers? Or this is a scheme that Silver is bringing forward on his own? Why? His job security depends on those Governors being happy, you think this is doing anything other that get him fired, if coming out? You also realize how many people should know about it, to make it happen? And how is anyone planning to compensating Dumont?
Or it's Dumont, to "save money"? What money? Davis is signed for 3 years and 180m after this season, more than what Luka would have eventually made. Dallas was going to be projected as below the 1st apron, definitely below the second for the foreseeable future. Luka would have made normal superstar money, while being the primary source of revenue and relevance for the team. And you want to tell me that a non basketball guy, on his own, is going to force Nico to deal the guy in secret, to the Lakers, for a bad package including a guy making more money for the next 4 seasons?

As I mentioned, it seems to me people completely fail to understand the Honlon's Razor.
People can make dumb decisions. Especially successful people can be FOS and start believing they are invincible.
That's a known concept since the antiquity. Roman Emperors during the triumph had servants telling them "Hominem te esse memento, memento mori" (remember you are just a man, remember you will die), to keep them grounded to reality.
Everything I learn about this story is pointing in this direction.

[dirkdiggler4177]

Spoiler:

Believe me when I tell you I am not trying to defend the Mavs' decision to trade Doncic. I just think there is a rationale, and it's probably a combination of Doncic's persona and the realities of locking the Mavs into the 2nd apron with Doncic and no flexibility to adjust the roster. We're seeing this play out almost in real time with Jokic in Denver and Booker in Phoenix.

Harrison and the Mavs have no choice but to double and triple down to infinity. You don't think Harrison is going to come out and say, "yeah, maybe I f'd that one up." If I had been in Harrison's shoes, I think I would have quit on the spot rather than be the guy who traded Doncic...TO THE LAKERS.

Prime Luka 5/345 baaaaad
33-35y „Street cloths“ 3/185 gooood

It was never an issue. Paying your superstar the supermax.

Denver has problems not because of Jokic, it’s because they gave Murray basically the same money

The problem in Phoenix isn’t Bookers contract, it’s Beals.

If you see the remaining years on Davis contract, then you know it’s another horsecrap argument. Mavs had plenty flexibility with all the contracts running out in 2026…

Again, speculating, but if the Mavs had real concerns about Doncic's commitment to improving his defense and to conditioning and taking care of himself, then being locked into him at ~$70M a season over 5 seasons is not where you want to be.

In any case, once you have 1-2 players locked into massive deals, it gets really hard to make changes. Phoenix is likely going to have to trade Durant because they can't deal Beal, they can't aggregate players in a trade, and I believe they can't use their exceptions. Denver is in the same boat, but with no Durant to trade.

Denver and Phoenix are not the only examples. Milwaukee (moved Middleton for...Kuzma) and Golden St (they had to let Klay Thompson go) are others. Minnesota is stuck in the 2nd apron and potentially going to become Phoenix 2.0. The Clippers had to let Paul George walk; Miami decided to let Jimmy Butler go. Philadelphia got stuck with Tobias Harris (and lost J Butler because of it). Welcome to the world with the 2nd apron.

Now, could Doncic have made a Jalen Brunson-inspired decision to take significantly less money to give the Mavs the flexibility? Yes. Was that likely? No.

-----------------------------------------------


The NBA's goal with the Draft and the salary cap has been to create parity. The goal of restricted FA and Bird Rights has always been to keep players with the team that drafted and developed them as much as possible.

We'll have to see where things stand in a few years when teams have had time to implement their strategies to deal with the 2nd apron, but I think the NBA is going to have to walk back some of the onerous restrictions of the 2nd apron or carve out some sort of exception, like the Designated Player slots that exist in the MLS. The NBA has already decided to continue with stretch provisions, but that doesn't go far enough.

It's just not going to be good for the NBA brand to have teams being broken up and having to make Harden (OKC) or Doncic-type trades. It's just going to create discontented stars and frustrated fan bases.

Finally, someone who is able to see the bigger picture. Luka is most likely a Charles Barkley and not a Michael Jordan.

If Luka were to become a finals MVP, he would probably be the worst defensive MVP of all time. You can compare him to Larry Bird, but Bird was famous for being first and last to practice. That inspires teams. We can discuss all back and forth, but time will tell if Luka was that player.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Again, speculating, but if the Mavs had real concerns about Doncic's commitment to improving his defense and to conditioning and taking care of himself, then being locked into him at ~$70M a season over 5 seasons is not where you want to be.

In any case, once you have 1-2 players locked into massive deals, it gets really hard to make changes. Phoenix is likely going to have to trade Durant because they can't deal Beal, they can't aggregate players in a trade, and I believe they can't use their exceptions. Denver is in the same boat, but with no Durant to trade.

Denver and Phoenix are not the only examples. Milwaukee (moved Middleton for...Kuzma) and Golden St (they had to let Klay Thompson go) are others. Minnesota is stuck in the 2nd apron and potentially going to become Phoenix 2.0. The Clippers had to let Paul George walk; Miami decided to let Jimmy Butler go. Philadelphia got stuck with Tobias Harris (and lost J Butler because of it). Welcome to the world with the 2nd apron.

If you have concerns on his future, fine. Just this is not the way to trade him, in secret, with this package and negotiating only with the Lakers.
Moreover, with the money we keep mixing up things.
Giving the supermax to a top5 guy is NEVER the problem, it's never what takes away the flexibility.
It's what you do with the rest of the roster the issue.
The Nuggets don't have an issue with Jokic, their problem is that Murray and MPj are not goof enough as second and third star.
The Bucks don't have an issue with Giannis, their problem is that Dame costs too much and Middleton was not performing anymore.
Don't let me start on Phoenix, three supermax guys and none really worth it.
1-2 player are not the problem, if good, how you overpay the rest of the roster is.
Moreover, part of it it's a feature: to compete you must find good value, make decisions. Hit on your picks, start reclaiming projects, find the underrated guys. You can't keep together a championship team for too long because proven championship player are going to command too much money, to be the 4th of 5th most paid guy.

But the last of your issues is how much you pay you're MVP level guy. Those guys are always the best bargain.

[Calvin Klein]

To me, the OBVIOUS reason Nico trade Luka is Nico’s EGO.
Luka was bigger than him, Luka was basically Mavs and rightfully so.
Nico couldn’t stand it
End of story

If that was the only reason then why didn't anybody stop him or fire him?

[prophet_of_rage]

And why did Cuban sell to these guys? Did they make him an offer he could not refuse?

Yes. You make money selling the team.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[Archx]

Spoiler:

Prime Luka 5/345 baaaaad
33-35y „Street cloths“ 3/185 gooood

It was never an issue. Paying your superstar the supermax.

Denver has problems not because of Jokic, it’s because they gave Murray basically the same money

The problem in Phoenix isn’t Bookers contract, it’s Beals.

If you see the remaining years on Davis contract, then you know it’s another horsecrap argument. Mavs had plenty flexibility with all the contracts running out in 2026…

Again, speculating, but if the Mavs had real concerns about Doncic's commitment to improving his defense and to conditioning and taking care of himself, then being locked into him at ~$70M a season over 5 seasons is not where you want to be.

In any case, once you have 1-2 players locked into massive deals, it gets really hard to make changes. Phoenix is likely going to have to trade Durant because they can't deal Beal, they can't aggregate players in a trade, and I believe they can't use their exceptions. Denver is in the same boat, but with no Durant to trade.

Denver and Phoenix are not the only examples. Milwaukee (moved Middleton for...Kuzma) and Golden St (they had to let Klay Thompson go) are others. Minnesota is stuck in the 2nd apron and potentially going to become Phoenix 2.0. The Clippers had to let Paul George walk; Miami decided to let Jimmy Butler go. Philadelphia got stuck with Tobias Harris (and lost J Butler because of it). Welcome to the world with the 2nd apron.

Now, could Doncic have made a Jalen Brunson-inspired decision to take significantly less money to give the Mavs the flexibility? Yes. Was that likely? No.

-----------------------------------------------


The NBA's goal with the Draft and the salary cap has been to create parity. The goal of restricted FA and Bird Rights has always been to keep players with the team that drafted and developed them as much as possible.

We'll have to see where things stand in a few years when teams have had time to implement their strategies to deal with the 2nd apron, but I think the NBA is going to have to walk back some of the onerous restrictions of the 2nd apron or carve out some sort of exception, like the Designated Player slots that exist in the MLS. The NBA has already decided to continue with stretch provisions, but that doesn't go far enough.

It's just not going to be good for the NBA brand to have teams being broken up and having to make Harden (OKC) or Doncic-type trades. It's just going to create discontented stars and frustrated fan bases.

Finally, someone who is able to see the bigger picture. Luka is most likely a Charles Barkley and not a Michael Jordan.

If Luka were to become a finals MVP, he would probably be the worst defensive MVP of all time. You can compare him to Larry Bird, but Bird was famous for being first and last to practice. That inspires teams. We can discuss all back and forth, but time will tell if Luka was that player.

Mavs had 2nd best defense after the trade last season WITH LUKA. They had best defense vs Celtics in the finals WITH LUKA. They had better defensive stats WITH LUKA than AD this season.

How the hell do you consistently come up with these dumb posts without checking anything? Mavs lost finals because Celtics had a historic team with multiple players contributing but still didn't shoot that well themselves. Tatum was arguably even bailed out by his 2nd fiddle Brown.

Mavs on the other hand, couldn't even hit a large ocean with a nuclear bomb. They fumbled first two games simply by not being able to hit (what NBA.com says) either WIDE open or OPEN shots. Luka was their entire offense (generating over 30 of these type of shots in their first two games) with Kyrie being a complete no show. Even ESPN finally did a complete 180 and acknowledged that last night, listen to what MacMahon said.

Luka is closer to Barkley? Lmao

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Again, speculating, but if the Mavs had real concerns about Doncic's commitment to improving his defense and to conditioning and taking care of himself, then being locked into him at ~$70M a season over 5 seasons is not where you want to be.

In any case, once you have 1-2 players locked into massive deals, it gets really hard to make changes. Phoenix is likely going to have to trade Durant because they can't deal Beal, they can't aggregate players in a trade, and I believe they can't use their exceptions. Denver is in the same boat, but with no Durant to trade.

Denver and Phoenix are not the only examples. Milwaukee (moved Middleton for...Kuzma) and Golden St (they had to let Klay Thompson go) are others. Minnesota is stuck in the 2nd apron and potentially going to become Phoenix 2.0. The Clippers had to let Paul George walk; Miami decided to let Jimmy Butler go. Philadelphia got stuck with Tobias Harris (and lost J Butler because of it). Welcome to the world with the 2nd apron.

Now, could Doncic have made a Jalen Brunson-inspired decision to take significantly less money to give the Mavs the flexibility? Yes. Was that likely? No.

-----------------------------------------------


The NBA's goal with the Draft and the salary cap has been to create parity. The goal of restricted FA and Bird Rights has always been to keep players with the team that drafted and developed them as much as possible.

We'll have to see where things stand in a few years when teams have had time to implement their strategies to deal with the 2nd apron, but I think the NBA is going to have to walk back some of the onerous restrictions of the 2nd apron or carve out some sort of exception, like the Designated Player slots that exist in the MLS. The NBA has already decided to continue with stretch provisions, but that doesn't go far enough.

It's just not going to be good for the NBA brand to have teams being broken up and having to make Harden (OKC) or Doncic-type trades. It's just going to create discontented stars and frustrated fan bases.

Finally, someone who is able to see the bigger picture. Luka is most likely a Charles Barkley and not a Michael Jordan.

If Luka were to become a finals MVP, he would probably be the worst defensive MVP of all time. You can compare him to Larry Bird, but Bird was famous for being first and last to practice. That inspires teams. We can discuss all back and forth, but time will tell if Luka was that player.

Mavs had 2nd best defense after the trade last season WITH LUKA. They had best defense vs Celtics in the finals WITH LUKA. They had better defensive stats WITH LUKA than AD this season.

How the hell do you consistently come up with these dumb posts without checking anything? Mavs lost finals because Celtics had a historic team with multiple players contributing but still didn't shoot that well themselves. Tatum was arguably even bailed out by his 2nd fiddle Brown.

Mavs on the other hand, couldn't even hit a large ocean with a nuclear bomb. They fumbled first two games simply by not being able to hit (what NBA.com says) either WIDE open or OPEN shots. Luka was their entire offense (generating over 30 of these type of shots in their first two games) with Kyrie being a complete no show. Even ESPN finally did a complete 180 and acknowledged that last night, listen to what MacMahon said.

Luka is closer to Barkley? Lmao

Anyway, it's not like Barkley was a bum

[Johnny Firpo]

Spoiler:

Prime Luka 5/345 baaaaad
33-35y „Street cloths“ 3/185 gooood

It was never an issue. Paying your superstar the supermax.

Denver has problems not because of Jokic, it’s because they gave Murray basically the same money

The problem in Phoenix isn’t Bookers contract, it’s Beals.

If you see the remaining years on Davis contract, then you know it’s another horsecrap argument. Mavs had plenty flexibility with all the contracts running out in 2026…

Again, speculating, but if the Mavs had real concerns about Doncic's commitment to improving his defense and to conditioning and taking care of himself, then being locked into him at ~$70M a season over 5 seasons is not where you want to be.

In any case, once you have 1-2 players locked into massive deals, it gets really hard to make changes. Phoenix is likely going to have to trade Durant because they can't deal Beal, they can't aggregate players in a trade, and I believe they can't use their exceptions. Denver is in the same boat, but with no Durant to trade.

Denver and Phoenix are not the only examples. Milwaukee (moved Middleton for...Kuzma) and Golden St (they had to let Klay Thompson go) are others. Minnesota is stuck in the 2nd apron and potentially going to become Phoenix 2.0. The Clippers had to let Paul George walk; Miami decided to let Jimmy Butler go. Philadelphia got stuck with Tobias Harris (and lost J Butler because of it). Welcome to the world with the 2nd apron.

Now, could Doncic have made a Jalen Brunson-inspired decision to take significantly less money to give the Mavs the flexibility? Yes. Was that likely? No.

-----------------------------------------------


The NBA's goal with the Draft and the salary cap has been to create parity. The goal of restricted FA and Bird Rights has always been to keep players with the team that drafted and developed them as much as possible.

We'll have to see where things stand in a few years when teams have had time to implement their strategies to deal with the 2nd apron, but I think the NBA is going to have to walk back some of the onerous restrictions of the 2nd apron or carve out some sort of exception, like the Designated Player slots that exist in the MLS. The NBA has already decided to continue with stretch provisions, but that doesn't go far enough.

It's just not going to be good for the NBA brand to have teams being broken up and having to make Harden (OKC) or Doncic-type trades. It's just going to create discontented stars and frustrated fan bases.

Finally, someone who is able to see the bigger picture. Luka is most likely a Charles Barkley and not a Michael Jordan.

If Luka were to become a finals MVP, he would probably be the worst defensive MVP of all time. You can compare him to Larry Bird, but Bird was famous for being first and last to practice. That inspires teams. We can discuss all back and forth, but time will tell if Luka was that player.

Not even close. He is a much better defender than Tony Parker was, and generally average to above average in basically every metric. It just looks bad when he gets beat on the perimeter, but that's only a small percentage of defense. He rotates well, helps well, an excellent defensive rebounder, all of those are showing in his impact. But since he gets beaten sometimes, and sometimes badly, and he is a star player, people focus on this more than they should. The truth is that he is a much better defender than Kyrie for example, the guy who Nico decided to keep and build around, so when he says "defense wins championships", I can only laugh. Obviously he hated Luka. We know this now. It was definitely, in large part, personal.

[dirkdiggler4177]

Again, speculating, but if the Mavs had real concerns about Doncic's commitment to improving his defense and to conditioning and taking care of himself, then being locked into him at ~$70M a season over 5 seasons is not where you want to be.

In any case, once you have 1-2 players locked into massive deals, it gets really hard to make changes. Phoenix is likely going to have to trade Durant because they can't deal Beal, they can't aggregate players in a trade, and I believe they can't use their exceptions. Denver is in the same boat, but with no Durant to trade.

Denver and Phoenix are not the only examples. Milwaukee (moved Middleton for...Kuzma) and Golden St (they had to let Klay Thompson go) are others. Minnesota is stuck in the 2nd apron and potentially going to become Phoenix 2.0. The Clippers had to let Paul George walk; Miami decided to let Jimmy Butler go. Philadelphia got stuck with Tobias Harris (and lost J Butler because of it). Welcome to the world with the 2nd apron.

Now, could Doncic have made a Jalen Brunson-inspired decision to take significantly less money to give the Mavs the flexibility? Yes. Was that likely? No.

-----------------------------------------------


The NBA's goal with the Draft and the salary cap has been to create parity. The goal of restricted FA and Bird Rights has always been to keep players with the team that drafted and developed them as much as possible.

We'll have to see where things stand in a few years when teams have had time to implement their strategies to deal with the 2nd apron, but I think the NBA is going to have to walk back some of the onerous restrictions of the 2nd apron or carve out some sort of exception, like the Designated Player slots that exist in the MLS. The NBA has already decided to continue with stretch provisions, but that doesn't go far enough.

It's just not going to be good for the NBA brand to have teams being broken up and having to make Harden (OKC) or Doncic-type trades. It's just going to create discontented stars and frustrated fan bases.

Finally, someone who is able to see the bigger picture. Luka is most likely a Charles Barkley and not a Michael Jordan.

If Luka were to become a finals MVP, he would probably be the worst defensive MVP of all time. You can compare him to Larry Bird, but Bird was famous for being first and last to practice. That inspires teams. We can discuss all back and forth, but time will tell if Luka was that player.

Mavs had 2nd best defense after the trade last season WITH LUKA. They had best defense vs Celtics in the finals WITH LUKA. They had better defensive stats WITH LUKA than AD this season.

How the hell do you consistently come up with these dumb posts without checking anything? Mavs lost finals because Celtics had a historic team with multiple players contributing but still didn't shoot that well themselves. Tatum was arguably even bailed out by his 2nd fiddle Brown.

Mavs on the other hand, couldn't even hit a large ocean with a nuclear bomb. They fumbled first two games simply by not being able to hit (what NBA.com says) either WIDE open or OPEN shots. Luka was their entire offense (generating over 30 of these type of shots in their first two games) with Kyrie being a complete no show. Even ESPN finally did a complete 180 and acknowledged that last night, listen to what MacMahon said.

Luka is closer to Barkley? Lmao

Yes, Luka is great, but his not that great on defense. It also seems like he has a bad work ethic. But time will tell, we are probably wrong both of us.

[dirkdiggler4177]

Again, speculating, but if the Mavs had real concerns about Doncic's commitment to improving his defense and to conditioning and taking care of himself, then being locked into him at ~$70M a season over 5 seasons is not where you want to be.

In any case, once you have 1-2 players locked into massive deals, it gets really hard to make changes. Phoenix is likely going to have to trade Durant because they can't deal Beal, they can't aggregate players in a trade, and I believe they can't use their exceptions. Denver is in the same boat, but with no Durant to trade.

Denver and Phoenix are not the only examples. Milwaukee (moved Middleton for...Kuzma) and Golden St (they had to let Klay Thompson go) are others. Minnesota is stuck in the 2nd apron and potentially going to become Phoenix 2.0. The Clippers had to let Paul George walk; Miami decided to let Jimmy Butler go. Philadelphia got stuck with Tobias Harris (and lost J Butler because of it). Welcome to the world with the 2nd apron.

Now, could Doncic have made a Jalen Brunson-inspired decision to take significantly less money to give the Mavs the flexibility? Yes. Was that likely? No.

-----------------------------------------------


The NBA's goal with the Draft and the salary cap has been to create parity. The goal of restricted FA and Bird Rights has always been to keep players with the team that drafted and developed them as much as possible.

We'll have to see where things stand in a few years when teams have had time to implement their strategies to deal with the 2nd apron, but I think the NBA is going to have to walk back some of the onerous restrictions of the 2nd apron or carve out some sort of exception, like the Designated Player slots that exist in the MLS. The NBA has already decided to continue with stretch provisions, but that doesn't go far enough.

It's just not going to be good for the NBA brand to have teams being broken up and having to make Harden (OKC) or Doncic-type trades. It's just going to create discontented stars and frustrated fan bases.

Finally, someone who is able to see the bigger picture. Luka is most likely a Charles Barkley and not a Michael Jordan.

If Luka were to become a finals MVP, he would probably be the worst defensive MVP of all time. You can compare him to Larry Bird, but Bird was famous for being first and last to practice. That inspires teams. We can discuss all back and forth, but time will tell if Luka was that player.

Not even close. He is a much better defender than Tony Parker was, and generally average to above average in basically every metric. It just looks bad when he gets beat on the perimeter, but that's only a small percentage of defense. He rotates well, helps well, an excellent defensive rebounder, all of those are showing in his impact. But since he gets beaten sometimes, and sometimes badly, and he is a star player, people focus on this more than they should. The truth is that he is a much better defender than Kyrie for example, the guy who Nico decided to keep and build around, so when he says "defensive wins championship", I can only laugh. Obviously he hated Luka. We know this now. It was definitely, in large part, personal.

Yes, not the whole clip is Luka playing bad defense. He is an excellent help defender and reads the offense very well when he plays defense. His problem is that he can't explode and recover quickly enough, so he usually lets his man be too open or get past him.

Like here is to close and the offensive player gets past him:
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/22/0042300311/518/409ec98a-ba77-ac01-9bdb-0cbf2fb8ac88_1280x720.mp4

He also uses defense to recover a lot and zone out. Like I don't have a big problem with it, but this play is made because Luka doesn't pay attention and is not fast enough to follow his man:
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/22/0042300311/329/7beae24e-4804-3828-2bf8-2849bac5a1e1_1280x720.mp4

He is also much more engaged later in games, like here for example:
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/22/0042300311/568/f6ec78ad-af2c-9ba8-d817-5fe12fda2ce8_1280x720.mp4

Here you see Kyrie being able to recover quickly and gives his all:
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/09/0042300222/10/19997fea-6631-33b4-8389-03dfaf1333af_1280x720.mp4

He is also able to recover and move with his drive:
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/09/0042300222/107/158c5dea-2114-ce69-7793-a19ea3ca6afc_1280x720.mp4

You might think I am nitpicking here, but I looked at all the plays of Lue Dort, and time and time again Luka plays lazy, but he does play great help defense. You could argue that Gafford needs to switch earlier here, but this play happens because Luka is just too lazy to follow Dort.
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/11/0042300223/23/6a51f6d0-ba46-0f71-6039-ab180d8e56f4_1280x720.mp4

Here he explodes, but unlike a good defender can't recover because he uses all his force to explode:
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/11/0042300223/59/2488d968-7dd5-3b09-069f-9c311fa69ab2_1280x720.mp4

Here they double and switch, but when Jones switches back again Luka does not recover quickly enough and Dort is open:
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/11/0042300223/187/d48f3586-5e2d-1bdc-9c9c-56730ad06edd_1280x720.mp4

https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/11/0042300223/209/c458d898-7755-3978-cf60-a6d5428a37b4_1280x720.mp4


This was just a good shot, nothing Luka could have done:
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/11/0042300223/446/ea9cff0d-17a1-029c-8d00-ebae6d230b4a_1280x720.mp4

Here he loses his man for a tiny moment, is able to recover has a quick reaction time, and doesn't bite the fake. Best defense so far:
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/05/11/0042300223/504/70417a3e-8c5f-47f5-1d5f-b256995efba9_1280x720.mp4

[SA37]

Again, speculating, but if the Mavs had real concerns about Doncic's commitment to improving his defense and to conditioning and taking care of himself, then being locked into him at ~$70M a season over 5 seasons is not where you want to be.

In any case, once you have 1-2 players locked into massive deals, it gets really hard to make changes. Phoenix is likely going to have to trade Durant because they can't deal Beal, they can't aggregate players in a trade, and I believe they can't use their exceptions. Denver is in the same boat, but with no Durant to trade.

Denver and Phoenix are not the only examples. Milwaukee (moved Middleton for...Kuzma) and Golden St (they had to let Klay Thompson go) are others. Minnesota is stuck in the 2nd apron and potentially going to become Phoenix 2.0. The Clippers had to let Paul George walk; Miami decided to let Jimmy Butler go. Philadelphia got stuck with Tobias Harris (and lost J Butler because of it). Welcome to the world with the 2nd apron.

If you have concerns on his future, fine. Just this is not the way to trade him, in secret, with this package and negotiating only with the Lakers.
Moreover, with the money we keep mixing up things.
Giving the supermax to a top5 guy is NEVER the problem, it's never what takes away the flexibility.
It's what you do with the rest of the roster the issue.
The Nuggets don't have an issue with Jokic, their problem is that Murray and MPj are not goof enough as second and third star.
The Bucks don't have an issue with Giannis, their problem is that Dame costs too much and Middleton was not performing anymore.
Don't let me start on Phoenix, three supermax guys and none really worth it.
1-2 player are not the problem, if good, how you overpay the rest of the roster is.
Moreover, part of it it's a feature: to compete you must find good value, make decisions. Hit on your picks, start reclaiming projects, find the underrated guys. You can't keep together a championship team for too long because proven championship player are going to command too much money, to be the 4th of 5th most paid guy.

But the last of your issues is how much you pay you're MVP level guy. Those guys are always the best bargain.

Re: Giving the supermax to a top5 guy is NEVER the problem, it's never what takes away the flexibility.

With the 2nd apron and the onerous restrictions that come with it, I think this changes to some degree depending on where you're at in the team build. I can only assume the Mavericks' FO/ownership decided 1) the Mavs' were luckier than good in their Finals run and 2) Irving + Doncic on a supermax was going to lock them in financially.

Paying a player ~$70M/year is going to be ~40% of your cap. If you have a second player making another ~$35-$45M, you've got ~60-70% of your cap eaten up by 2 guys.

Phoenix is about to get here with Devin Booker. Leaving aside whether he is worth a supermax or not, Phoenix seems set to give it to him. Does this make sense given 1) Phoenix's lack of draft capital 2) Phoenix's Beal no-trade clause problem and 3) the problem of likely needing to prioritize cap flexibility over maximizing a return for Durant?

Or would it make more sense for Phoenix to trade Booker to recover draft capital and get as much financial flexibility when Beal comes off the books and use the next 2-3 years building for that?

I think we're going to see more and more teams facing this kind of decision. (We saw this play out to a degree with Dame Lillard in Portland.)

Re: 1-2 player are not the problem, if good, how you overpay the rest of the roster is.
Moreover, part of it it's a feature: to compete you must find good value, make decisions. Hit on your picks, start reclaiming projects, find the underrated guys.

What you're largely talking about here is something only a handful of teams have done consistently well in the last 20 years: Miami, San Antonio, the Lakers, OKC, and Golden St. Team building is hard. Not committing money to mediocre players is hard. Maximizing value from late 1sts/2nd round picks is hard.

Miami is about to find itself in a position where it is paying Bam Adebayo ~$52, $56, and $60M/year from 26/27-28/29. Tyler Herro is going to be eligible for an extension in October for 3-years, $150M, so $50/year. So Miami is looking at paying Adebayo and (potentially) Herro the following:

25/26: $85M
26/27: ~$100M
27/28: ~$106M
28/29: ~$115M

So does Miami commit to paying 2 borderline all-stars/non-All-NBA guys that kind of money or do they start trying to unwind? Miami already chose to let its best player, Jimmy Butler, walk understanding the aforementioned. And Miami is a team that owes a couple of picks in the next 2-3 years and already has a solid group of young players that may or may not pan out.

We're going to see a lot of teams in this type of position over the next few years until teams get adjusted to the new rules on aprons.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Again, speculating, but if the Mavs had real concerns about Doncic's commitment to improving his defense and to conditioning and taking care of himself, then being locked into him at ~$70M a season over 5 seasons is not where you want to be.

In any case, once you have 1-2 players locked into massive deals, it gets really hard to make changes. Phoenix is likely going to have to trade Durant because they can't deal Beal, they can't aggregate players in a trade, and I believe they can't use their exceptions. Denver is in the same boat, but with no Durant to trade.

Denver and Phoenix are not the only examples. Milwaukee (moved Middleton for...Kuzma) and Golden St (they had to let Klay Thompson go) are others. Minnesota is stuck in the 2nd apron and potentially going to become Phoenix 2.0. The Clippers had to let Paul George walk; Miami decided to let Jimmy Butler go. Philadelphia got stuck with Tobias Harris (and lost J Butler because of it). Welcome to the world with the 2nd apron.

If you have concerns on his future, fine. Just this is not the way to trade him, in secret, with this package and negotiating only with the Lakers.
Moreover, with the money we keep mixing up things.
Giving the supermax to a top5 guy is NEVER the problem, it's never what takes away the flexibility.
It's what you do with the rest of the roster the issue.
The Nuggets don't have an issue with Jokic, their problem is that Murray and MPj are not goof enough as second and third star.
The Bucks don't have an issue with Giannis, their problem is that Dame costs too much and Middleton was not performing anymore.
Don't let me start on Phoenix, three supermax guys and none really worth it.
1-2 player are not the problem, if good, how you overpay the rest of the roster is.
Moreover, part of it it's a feature: to compete you must find good value, make decisions. Hit on your picks, start reclaiming projects, find the underrated guys. You can't keep together a championship team for too long because proven championship player are going to command too much money, to be the 4th of 5th most paid guy.

But the last of your issues is how much you pay you're MVP level guy. Those guys are always the best bargain.

Re: Giving the supermax to a top5 guy is NEVER the problem, it's never what takes away the flexibility.

With the 2nd apron and the onerous restrictions that come with it, I think this changes to some degree depending on where you're at in the team build. I can only assume the Mavericks' FO/ownership decided 1) the Mavs' were luckier than good in their Finals run and 2) Irving + Doncic on a supermax was going to lock them in financially.

Paying a player ~$70M/year is going to be ~40% of your cap. If you have a second player making another ~$35-$45M, you've got ~60-70% of your cap eaten up by 2 guys.

Phoenix is about to get here with Devin Booker. Leaving aside whether he is worth a supermax or not, Phoenix seems set to give it to him. Does this make sense given 1) Phoenix's lack of draft capital 2) Phoenix's Beal no-trade clause problem and 3) the problem of likely needing to prioritize cap flexibility over maximizing a return for Durant?

Or would it make more sense for Phoenix to trade Booker to recover draft capital and get as much financial flexibility when Beal comes off the books and use the next 2-3 years building for that?

I think we're going to see more and more teams facing this kind of decision. (We saw this play out to a degree with Dame Lillard in Portland.)

Re: 1-2 player are not the problem, if good, how you overpay the rest of the roster is.
Moreover, part of it it's a feature: to compete you must find good value, make decisions. Hit on your picks, start reclaiming projects, find the underrated guys.

What you're largely talking about here is something only a handful of teams have done consistently well in the last 20 years: Miami, San Antonio, the Lakers, OKC, and Golden St. Team building is hard. Not committing money to mediocre players is hard. Maximizing value from late 1sts/2nd round picks is hard.

Miami is about to find itself in a position where it is paying Bam Adebayo ~$52, $56, and $60M/year from 26/27-28/29. Tyler Herro is going to be eligible for an extension in October for 3-years, $150M, so $50/year. So Miami is looking at paying Adebayo and (potentially) Herro the following:

25/26: $85M
26/27: ~$100M
27/28: ~$106M
28/29: ~$115M

So does Miami commit to paying 2 borderline all-stars/non-All-NBA guys that kind of money or do they start trying to unwind? Miami already chose to let its best player, Jimmy Butler, walk understanding the aforementioned. And Miami is a team that owes a couple of picks in the next 2-3 years and already has a solid group of young players that may or may not pan out.

We're going to see a lot of teams in this type of position over the next few years until teams get adjusted to the new rules on aprons.

Nobody is getting paid 40% of the cap, the limit is 35%. What you hear is the average over 5 years, starting in 2027. But each of those year will be on a different cap, and the yearly salary will be around that 35%.
If that player is MVP level, it's a bargain.
The issue is when you give this money to guys that are one or two tiers below, like all the other guys you mentioned.
Again, if you think Luka is overrated ok. I disagree but I understand the logic. But if you think he's top5 is a bargain at 35%, just like Jokic or Giannis are.

And I know that team building is hard, because you must hit on several good value contracts, on top of having the star. And to stay on top, you must be able to cycle.on those contracts.
Funny enough, the Nuggets, for instance, have a few of them. Braun, Watson and even Russ are grossly overperforming their salary. But they are stuck because Murray and Porter are not.

[Jfh20]

The nba and silver helped orchestrated this move.. ratings all time low… silver needs a Celtics vs lakers finals. Only question is how much money was paid to Mavericks. LeBron wants to retire with 6 rings and he will go to any lengths for it .

[UglyBugBall]

Finally, someone who is able to see the bigger picture. Luka is most likely a Charles Barkley and not a Michael Jordan.

If Luka were to become a finals MVP, he would probably be the worst defensive MVP of all time. You can compare him to Larry Bird, but Bird was famous for being first and last to practice. That inspires teams. We can discuss all back and forth, but time will tell if Luka was that player.

Mavs had 2nd best defense after the trade last season WITH LUKA. They had best defense vs Celtics in the finals WITH LUKA. They had better defensive stats WITH LUKA than AD this season.

How the hell do you consistently come up with these dumb posts without checking anything? Mavs lost finals because Celtics had a historic team with multiple players contributing but still didn't shoot that well themselves. Tatum was arguably even bailed out by his 2nd fiddle Brown.

Mavs on the other hand, couldn't even hit a large ocean with a nuclear bomb. They fumbled first two games simply by not being able to hit (what NBA.com says) either WIDE open or OPEN shots. Luka was their entire offense (generating over 30 of these type of shots in their first two games) with Kyrie being a complete no show. Even ESPN finally did a complete 180 and acknowledged that last night, listen to what MacMahon said.

Luka is closer to Barkley? Lmao

Anyway, it's not like Barkley was a bum

He was a bum compared to Luka. Luka is projecting to be better than Jokic, Giannis, Shai and a bunch of guys we consider all time greats. He's positioning himself for top 5 all time and this guy compares him to Barkley???

[dirkdiggler4177]

Mavs had 2nd best defense after the trade last season WITH LUKA. They had best defense vs Celtics in the finals WITH LUKA. They had better defensive stats WITH LUKA than AD this season.

How the hell do you consistently come up with these dumb posts without checking anything? Mavs lost finals because Celtics had a historic team with multiple players contributing but still didn't shoot that well themselves. Tatum was arguably even bailed out by his 2nd fiddle Brown.

Mavs on the other hand, couldn't even hit a large ocean with a nuclear bomb. They fumbled first two games simply by not being able to hit (what NBA.com says) either WIDE open or OPEN shots. Luka was their entire offense (generating over 30 of these type of shots in their first two games) with Kyrie being a complete no show. Even ESPN finally did a complete 180 and acknowledged that last night, listen to what MacMahon said.

Luka is closer to Barkley? Lmao

Anyway, it's not like Barkley was a bum

He was a bum compared to Luka. Luka is projecting to be better than Jokic, Giannis, Shai and a bunch of guys we consider all time greats. He's positioning himself for top 5 all time and this guy compares him to Barkley???

If you think Charles Barkley was a bum compared to Luka, then I can't take you seriously. Luka can easily end up never making the finals again, and if he doesn't, he will end up in the Barkley, Malone, Iverson category.

[tsherkin]

He was a bum compared to Luka. Luka is projecting to be better than Jokic, Giannis, Shai and a bunch of guys we consider all time greats. He's positioning himself for top 5 all time and this guy compares him to Barkley???

So, you have an interesting case with the base comparison. But Barkley was an MVP who led his team to the Finals, led the league in FG% for a half-decade in a row while averaging 26 ppg, was top-5 in the MVP vote 4 times, and top-6 another 3 times. He was All-NBA 11 times, 1st team 5 of them. Four seasons with an OBPM of 7 or better, topping out at 8.3 (Luka's only done that 3 times and also topped out at 8.3).

Calling him "a bum compared to Luka" just isn't sensible.