Masai Presser Live @ 11am

[Johnny Bball]

The last 3 Raptors 1st rounders were Barnes, Dick and JKW. Three very different players. It's impossible to know with certainty who they will go for.

And yet...all 3 produced at high enough levels in their draft years to end up on the Masai-type FRP query.

I'm 3/3 since creating the query (you left out Mogbo at pick 31 which I considered to be a pseudo-FRP), but the creation of the query is even more important than my track record. When I created it I was 0/0 with no track record yet, but the creation was aided by the pre-existing dataset of every single FRP selection Masai has made since the Bruno mistake in 2014 (including Mogbo at pick 31 and Koloko at pick 33 as very early SRPs).

So while 3/3 seems like a short sample size track record, all of the others have been on the list since I created it in 2023, retroactively. Delon, Pascal, Poeltl, OG, Malachi, Scottie, Koloko. All 7 of them.

I think the common themes are productive from a statistical standpoint, plus size for their position and provide versatility offensively and/or defensively.

You cannot rule out character and work ethic (so your at a distinct disadvantage trying to guess the deeper it goes). They will not draft anyone that comes out questionable in their interviews. Quickness and ability to play defense used to be near the to their criteria.

[Johnny Bball]

That's basically never been how Masai operates. He doesn't trade his younger players for more immediate help with lower upside.

Ya we aren't trading a recent former lottery pick for a player at a lesser draft position.

Derek Lively for Gradey Dick is kinda perfect for both teams involved.

Ainge says hold my beer, who wants Ochai.

You have a good point but it happens sometimes due to context.

Houston. I can see him trying to pry that 9-11 pick away and I can see Houston preferring someone NBA ready. Probably takes a swap of non-lottery pick down the road.

[Indeed]

A player who has been a negative player as a starter every year of his career should no longer be a starter and, thus, paid like a bench player.

Funny that his production is better or equal to those being paid more on our team.

I dont mind we trade them all, but our team has worse contracts to worry about.

Afterall, it is really about the fit our next franchise, I dont think Barnes has the offense to be that, shall see who we draft this year

Barnes at least does some things well enough where you can envision a future where his offensive role is decreased and he excels just defending, rebounding, transition and taking advantage of mismatches while hoping he learns to shoot at a current Draymond level. Though it could obv go wrong

We just have a large body of work for RJ, and he has never produced positive on court results even when he sometimes has pretty numbers (and to be clear, besides the last thirty-ish games of last season, he's always been below league average effeciency)

That is not true, Barnes is the worst. Not only he is not able to space the floor, his defense is also overrated.

Claiming him to be Anunoby or Giannis level defender is non sense, he doesnt have the quickness nor athletic to be top tier.

We were basically against tanking teams, and Barrett also showed much improved defense at the same time, which I dont buy at season end.

[Clutch0z24]

I'm 1000% sure that some people around here don't actually watch games and love to throw advanced metrics just to sound smart.

By all accounts...even Masai himself said it today.......RJ has improved and is playing a different and better brand of basketball in Toronto than he did in NY. His passing has improved, he doesn't exhibit that tunnel vision that he was notorious for in NY, his defence improved immensely since the start of the season. He has done everything the team has asked him to do. Does his free throw shooting leave something to be desired...yes...but that can be worked on.

And yet he still gets this level of hate. This is why we can't have nice things.

And dude is just a good kid and hard worker. He's also extremely durable compared to the 2 guys taken ahead of him in his draft.

He is paid appropriately and if he wants to sign an extension that makes him a few million more per year (and not anywhere close to 45-50 million AAV)...it won't be a bad deal.

Its not about the deal its if you want to pay for a team of Barnes 40mill, Ingram 40 Mill, Barrett, 33-35M, Quickley 32M.....At that point your locked into that team with not much room to improve....Is that 4 really a team you see being a winner?....I don't personally.

I would also like to get a Superstar on our roster that solves all our problems. Until that happens, we have to keep accumulating talent through other means and developing the players we have now.

Or you can trade Barrett in the offseason for a player that fits a little better with Barnes/Ingram.....Maybe pair Barrett with a player to bring in a difference maker....Possibilities are there for a good move for us to upgrade in areas that fit the team better using Barrett to get it.

[WuTang_CMB]

Sure, then we can waste a few years while we find out that Barnes/Flagg is an even worse fit than Siakam/Barnes.

OR, we can be proactive and trade Barnes at what is likely the peak of his value (23 years old, start of a 5-year deal) and get back a haul and be competitive immediately. Have we already forgot Booker led a team to the finals as the best player?

If you can get Booker for Barnes you are automatically a title contender and can build around Flagg when you have him on a cheap deal before you gotta give him a max.

Not to mention you would still have the ability to use some combo of Barrett/Ingram/Quickley + all our picks to possibly grab a co-star for Book/Flagg to run with.

it's a pipe dream. Masai isn't trading Scottie after acquiring Flagg. If you are trading a 23 year old all-star locked up, you better get Giannis. That's a true difference maker, not Booker, who didn't even make the playoffs.

So is Scottie a difference maker?

Didnt Booker lead a team to the **** finals when his running mates were CP3 and Ayton?

He did. What happened this year with KD?

You're running on a bad take. We are not trading him for Booker lol. If you want to trade Barnes, you trade him for Giannis. Booker is a premier talent no doubt but he aint Giannis and if you are going to trade your young franchise player, no matter what you think about him, you do it for a top 5 player in the nba. Not to mention, Masai is super patient... just because we draft Flagg is not going to make him knee jerk into moving Barnes

[PushDaRock]

Well, he's actually the leading scorer on a bad team, not the 3rd option. So yes, what's fair value right now for a player like that and an example of a player in that role?

A player who has been a negative player as a starter every year of his career should no longer be a starter and, thus, paid like a bench player.

Funny that his production is better or equal to those being paid more on our team.

I dont mind we trade them all, but our team has worse contracts to worry about.

Afterall, it is really about the fit our next franchise, I dont think Barnes has the offense to be that, shall see who we draft this year

I am also willing to get rid of everyone for the right move. I just find the RJ complaining pretty weird when he's already far exceeded expectations since getting here. He's turned himself into what is likely a neutral asset at worse from a toxic one.

[PushDaRock]

Its not about the deal its if you want to pay for a team of Barnes 40mill, Ingram 40 Mill, Barrett, 33-35M, Quickley 32M.....At that point your locked into that team with not much room to improve....Is that 4 really a team you see being a winner?....I don't personally.

I would also like to get a Superstar on our roster that solves all our problems. Until that happens, we have to keep accumulating talent through other means and developing the players we have now.

Or you can trade Barrett in the offseason for a player that fits a little better with Barnes/Ingram.....Maybe pair Barrett with a player to bring in a difference maker....Possibilities are there for a good move for us to upgrade in areas that fit the team better using Barrett to get it.

I'm all for moving RJ + another asset if you could get an upgrade, I don't deem anyone on this roster untouchable. Problem is I think it's very unlikely such a trade exists. A tier above RJ is essentially an All-Star, teams aren't exactly lining up to get rid of those guys.

[Indeed]

A player who has been a negative player as a starter every year of his career should no longer be a starter and, thus, paid like a bench player.

Funny that his production is better or equal to those being paid more on our team.

I dont mind we trade them all, but our team has worse contracts to worry about.

Afterall, it is really about the fit our next franchise, I dont think Barnes has the offense to be that, shall see who we draft this year

I am also willing to get rid of everyone for the right move. I just find the RJ complaining pretty weird when he's already far exceeded expectations since getting here. He's turned himself into what is likely a neutral asset at worse from a toxic one.

Indeed, and he was more watchable than anyone on the team. But afterall, we were not a winning team, everyone can go.

I do not feel anyone has the advance stats comparable to Lowry and being paid reasonable, so the chance of anyone on our current roster would be as available as players on another team. Perhaps should wait for Ingram before including him, and our up coming pick would determine who will stay for the short term.

[mtcan]

Yogurtproducer...

If you think Masai is going to move Scottie if they land Flagg, you are going to be in for disappointment. Let me remind you of what Masai said again:

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

A 18 year old is NOT upending the existing team structure...no matter how good they say he WILL be...not on day 1 at least.

And I happen to love what I see from Flagg but let's be realistic to everyone saying that the moment Cooper becomes a Raptor that you are immediately making moves around him.

If anyone thinks that the Raptors are making wholesale changes the moment they draft a Cooper Flagg...they are:

a) extremely wishful

b) living in a cave for the last 10 years and have never followed the Toronto Raptors under Masai Ujiri's leadership

I know that some people around here just fall in love with the shiny new toy but Masai, Bobby, etc. will surely disappoint you.

NO ROOKIE WILL FORCE CHANGES ON DAY 1. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN UNDER THIS TEAM'S CURRENT LEADERSHIP.

To bad Denver didn't hang onto Nurkic so Jokic could take a back seat for a few more years. Or Utah didnt keep Kanter and let Gobert be the backup.

Barnes is good. I like Barnes. But if you get Flagg who definitely projects to be better it is a no brainer to upgrade your roster and get a better fit

I believe in Flagg but again...the change you want to see isn't happening before the organization takes a good LONG look at how they look like together.

It wouldn't be this summer and it won't be any time before the trade deadline at earliest and even then...it would have to for a serious reason like Flagg sleeping with Scottie's girl...for a drastic change like you are hoping.

Not saying it won't happen at all but not on your timeline.

[mtcan]

Yogurtproducer...

If you think Masai is going to move Scottie if they land Flagg, you are going to be in for disappointment. Let me remind you of what Masai said again:

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

A 18 year old is NOT upending the existing team structure...no matter how good they say he WILL be...not on day 1 at least.

And I happen to love what I see from Flagg but let's be realistic to everyone saying that the moment Cooper becomes a Raptor that you are immediately making moves around him.

If anyone thinks that the Raptors are making wholesale changes the moment they draft a Cooper Flagg...they are:

a) extremely wishful

b) living in a cave for the last 10 years and have never followed the Toronto Raptors under Masai Ujiri's leadership

I know that some people around here just fall in love with the shiny new toy but Masai, Bobby, etc. will surely disappoint you.

NO ROOKIE WILL FORCE CHANGES ON DAY 1. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN UNDER THIS TEAM'S CURRENT LEADERSHIP.

Maybe not day 1...But at some point you have to make it make sense on the court....Just like when we drafted Barnes he became the guy we started to build around instead of Siakam/FVV ....Flagg has the higher upside and projects to be the better player than Barnes....If on the court they can't coexist a deal eventually will have to be made and a direction would have to be taken....I would love to see Barnes/Flagg be a dynamic Duo but they seem sim in play style.

And all I am saying is that I would want to see how all these pieces fit before I start moving assets around.

Yes they will have move guys eventually but I don't see this happening any time before the trade deadline at earliest. And because it is Masai he will use entire season to evaluate fit and progress. And I'm saying this for any guy we take in this draft...even if it happens to be Cooper Flagg.

[Tha Cynic]

Sure, then we can waste a few years while we find out that Barnes/Flagg is an even worse fit than Siakam/Barnes.

OR, we can be proactive and trade Barnes at what is likely the peak of his value (23 years old, start of a 5-year deal) and get back a haul and be competitive immediately. Have we already forgot Booker led a team to the finals as the best player?

If you can get Booker for Barnes you are automatically a title contender and can build around Flagg when you have him on a cheap deal before you gotta give him a max.

Not to mention you would still have the ability to use some combo of Barrett/Ingram/Quickley + all our picks to possibly grab a co-star for Book/Flagg to run with.

it's a pipe dream. Masai isn't trading Scottie after acquiring Flagg. If you are trading a 23 year old all-star locked up, you better get Giannis. That's a true difference maker, not Booker, who didn't even make the playoffs.

So is Scottie a difference maker?

Didnt Booker lead a team to the **** finals when his running mates were CP3 and Ayton?

You are severely underrating Chris Paul lol. That dude has completely transformed teams his entire career while with them, until he got to San Antonio at nearly 40. Devin Booker has made himself into a very good player, but Chris Paul was the engine behind that team.

Anyway, we are not trading Barnes for a 29 year old lol. Most likely scenario i see is RJ being traded

[HumbleRen]

it's a pipe dream. Masai isn't trading Scottie after acquiring Flagg. If you are trading a 23 year old all-star locked up, you better get Giannis. That's a true difference maker, not Booker, who didn't even make the playoffs.

So is Scottie a difference maker?

Didnt Booker lead a team to the **** finals when his running mates were CP3 and Ayton?

You are severely underrating Chris Paul lol. That dude has completely transformed teams his entire career while with them until he got to San Antonio at nearly 40. Devin Booker had made himself a very good player, but Chris Paul was the engine behind that team.

Anyway, we are not trading Barnes for a 29 year old lol. Most likely scenario is see is RJ being traded

Putting CP3 along side Ayton is hella disrespectful lol.

He was their most impactful player by almost all metrics.

[mihaic]

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

A 18 year old is NOT upending the existing team structure...no matter how good they say he WILL be...not on day 1 at least.

And I happen to love what I see from Flagg but let's be realistic to everyone saying that the moment Cooper becomes a Raptor that you are immediately making moves around him.

If anyone thinks that the Raptors are making wholesale changes the moment they draft a Cooper Flagg...they are:

a) extremely wishful

b) living in a cave for the last 10 years and have never followed the Toronto Raptors under Masai Ujiri's leadership

I know that some people around here just fall in love with the shiny new toy but Masai, Bobby, etc. will surely disappoint you.

NO ROOKIE WILL FORCE CHANGES ON DAY 1. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN UNDER THIS TEAM'S CURRENT LEADERSHIP.

To bad Denver didn't hang onto Nurkic so Jokic could take a back seat for a few more years. Or Utah didnt keep Kanter and let Gobert be the backup.

Barnes is good. I like Barnes. But if you get Flagg who definitely projects to be better it is a no brainer to upgrade your roster and get a better fit

I believe in Flagg but again...the change you want to see isn't happening before the organization takes a good LONG look at how they look like together.

It wouldn't be this summer and it won't be any time before the trade deadline at earliest and even then...it would have to for a serious reason like Flagg sleeping with Scottie's girl...for a drastic change like you are hoping.

Not saying it won't happen at all but not on your timeline.

You are right. It would only happen if an older disgruntled star is available, at a position we can make it work.

Morant is one that may be moved, not sure if he likes Darko or something as that could be an advantage, but he has off the court issues. Booker is another such example. Trae Young may want out but I don't think we want him.

Chance is non zero but small. We'll see who fails in the playoffs, and who demands a trade in the summer.

[anotherhomer]

I have questioned Gradey's fit as well, but Masai basically never does what you are proposing. Look at how long Flynn and Caboclo stuck around for despite not producing at all. If they want another late FRP for someone they are targeting, there's other ways to acquire it than trading Gradey.

i doubt it, the reason Flynn stuck around for a while was because they felt he wasn't getting develop opportunities under Nurse

With Gradey, i think they've given him a lot of opportunities so they've gotten a really good look at him to decide if they want to keep or trade him

Masai is notoriously patient, he's not going to think Gradey is anywhere close to a finished product after year 2 especially given the circumstances of this season.

you maybe right, but i think if they draft a blue-chip prospect at the PG/SG/SF position, it maybe good asset management to trade Gradey before asset lose value

[mtcan]

To bad Denver didn't hang onto Nurkic so Jokic could take a back seat for a few more years. Or Utah didnt keep Kanter and let Gobert be the backup.

Barnes is good. I like Barnes. But if you get Flagg who definitely projects to be better it is a no brainer to upgrade your roster and get a better fit

I believe in Flagg but again...the change you want to see isn't happening before the organization takes a good LONG look at how they look like together.

It wouldn't be this summer and it won't be any time before the trade deadline at earliest and even then...it would have to for a serious reason like Flagg sleeping with Scottie's girl...for a drastic change like you are hoping.

Not saying it won't happen at all but not on your timeline.

You are right. It would only happen if an older disgruntled star is available, at a position we can make it work.

Morant is one that may be moved, not sure if he likes Darko or something as that could be an advantage, but he has off the court issues. Booker is another such example. Trae Young may want out but I don't think we want him.

Chance is non zero but small. We'll see who fails in the playoffs, and who demands a trade in the summer.

Honestly Ja is so erratic these days that I don't think he's a Masai kind of guy. I don't know what's going on with him but the amount of time he misses due to injury or suspension...I can't give up anything of value for him. Same with Zion. Wouldn't touch either of them with a 10 foot pole. I value stability over crazy talent. Ja may well crash out in the next few years because he seems to have a problem with authority along with his off-court lifestyle and the fact that his dad is pretty much encouraging this fake gangsta behaviour...I couldn't hand the keys to the franchise to Ja.

[mihaic]

I believe in Flagg but again...the change you want to see isn't happening before the organization takes a good LONG look at how they look like together.

It wouldn't be this summer and it won't be any time before the trade deadline at earliest and even then...it would have to for a serious reason like Flagg sleeping with Scottie's girl...for a drastic change like you are hoping.

Not saying it won't happen at all but not on your timeline.

You are right. It would only happen if an older disgruntled star is available, at a position we can make it work.

Morant is one that may be moved, not sure if he likes Darko or something as that could be an advantage, but he has off the court issues. Booker is another such example. Trae Young may want out but I don't think we want him.

Chance is non zero but small. We'll see who fails in the playoffs, and who demands a trade in the summer.

Honestly Ja is so erratic these days that I don't think he's a Masai kind of guy. I don't know what's going on with him but the amount of time he misses due to injury or suspension...I can't give up anything of value for him. Same with Zion. Wouldn't touch either of them with a 10 foot pole. I value stability over crazy talent. Ja may well crash out in the next few years because he seems to have a problem with authority along with his off-court lifestyle and the fact that his dad is pretty much encouraging this fake gangsta behaviour...I couldn't hand the keys to the franchise to Ja.

Ya out of those three I mentioned Booker is the only clear cut choice. Morant could get in trouble with the law in Canada so personally I would not take the risk.

Obviously Giannis could ask out depending what the Bucks do, that's something we would consider if we don't get Flagg for sure.

[S.W.A.N]

The fit is simply awful with two guys that are literally the same strengths and weaknesses. Siakam at least had isolation scoring chops but Scottie/Flagg would have very very little of that.

I would guarantee that if we got Flagg that Scottie would be moved within 24-36 months at most. And that quote means nothing. If Scottie is a phenomenal incredible player, what do we call Booker? Booker is simply just a better player and there is next to no evidence that Scottie will ever reach his level.

Y'all acting like I am saying give Scottie away. I am saying trade him for an all-nba player ffs


You can go back and find some Masai quotes about Derozan that are similar in belief. However, when a better player in Kawhi was available he was shipped out immediately. Masai wouldn't hesitate for a second to upgrade from Scottie if it made us a contender.

Zero chance we trade Scottie because of drafting Flagg.

The fit is great.

Great?

Two point forward types with questionable shooting are never a "great" fit.

Reality is both would be best paired with a lead ball handler who is an all-nba player.

No that is your perception.

Mine is that having 2 elite wing defenders never hurt a team.

Barnes
Flagg
Ingram
Yak
Quickley

That is a top 3 defense in the nba. I'll take that team ever day. And if it wasn't optimum Quickley would be the one traded, not Barnes

[junot111]

Zero chance we trade Scottie because of drafting Flagg.

The fit is great.

Great?

Two point forward types with questionable shooting are never a "great" fit.

Reality is both would be best paired with a lead ball handler who is an all-nba player.

No that is your perception.

Mine is that having 2 elite wing defenders never hurt a team.

Barnes
Flagg
Ingram
Yak
Quickley

That is a top 3 defense in the nba. I'll take that team ever day. And if it wasn't optimum Quickley would be the one traded, not Barnes

Scottie is an elite wing defender now?

[TheRaptor!]

We gotta really hit on this lottery pick. Either that, or he should swing some monster trade this summer to get us a true #1.

why not both

[S.W.A.N]

Great?

Two point forward types with questionable shooting are never a "great" fit.

Reality is both would be best paired with a lead ball handler who is an all-nba player.

No that is your perception.

Mine is that having 2 elite wing defenders never hurt a team.

Barnes
Flagg
Ingram
Yak
Quickley

That is a top 3 defense in the nba. I'll take that team ever day. And if it wasn't optimum Quickley would be the one traded, not Barnes

Scottie is an elite wing defender now?

Yes. You could quibble and say he's more a big than a wing, but he spends a lot of his time defending the other teams best players regardless of position.