Minnesota - Philadelphia - Phoenix - Detroit

[Godaddycurse]

Detroit cannot do this deal and bring Beasley back.

Cade need spacing to operate, and Beasley is the best you can get nowadays (Steph is not coming to Detroit). 41,6% on 9,3 attempts in 28 minutes per game and he was our only player to play all 82 games.

Also in order to give NAW that salary we would need to renounce Schroder and THJr while eating Marting and giving up Sasser and all those 2nds, that's a really bad deal for Detroit.

We are good on guards. We will operate over the cap, we will use our MLE to bring Beasley back and we can bring THJr and Schroder back as well.

Cade/Ivey/Schroder/Beasley/THJr/Sasser is insane depth at the guards spots and Ron and Ausar can play the 2 as well.

We need a backup PF and we need someone to take over for Tobias once his contract is done (I bet he retires in Detroit but on a much smaller deal and coming off the bench).

Sasser, Fontecchio and all those 2nds need to be used in order to get us a Power Forward, a big upgrade over Fontecchio. Whenever Tobias was in foul trouble or unavailable we got in trouble, because we had to go super small with 3 and sometimes 4 guards and with Ausar defending PFs instead of the POA.

How much do you expect beasley to make? You dont have to renounce anyone, fontecchio and sasser salary matches NAW at 18.5M so you can do this after using your capspace/keep all your capholds. Imo you need better defender at the 1-2 spot and NAW gives you that.

You are confuse. Go check the players salaries and the trade idea.

Beasley will sign for the MLE.

Our defense is pretty good. Ausar defends the 1-2 and NAW is a big downgrade compared to Ausar. We need a better defender at the starting 5 (Duren is a bad defender) and at the 2-3 (THJr which should be Ivey next season and Ivey is a pretty bad defender)

Fontecchio + Sasser makes 11M next year. salary matching is +7.5M as long as you are below first apron. they can match NAW.. what am i confused about? McCain can fit into the biannual exception if not the MLE

NAW guards 1-3 well and is a big upgrade on THJr and Ivey in that department. Idea is for NAW to guard PoA and let Ausar wreck havoc at the wing. It will be important come playoffs to have multiple defenders on the perimeter since teams like to switch so much.

[HotelVitale]

This might be a homer influenced post but I think people are tripping a little on PG’s contract. There’s three years left now, PG’s 34, plus PG would’ve likely played like 65-70 games this year if the Sixers were trying to win. He did have a pretty bad year but so did all the Sixers, and even then he was still useful and good.

I don’t think it has big positive value but I think people are getting carried away with how awful it is. It seems very likely he’s a good player for at least 2 more seasons, and none of his injuries were serious this year. Seems like people are maybe mentally tying him in with the general disaster of the Sixers season and talking about his contract at his/its low point, like he’s guaranteed to be as bad as this Sixers season for the next 3 years.

[facothomas22]

No thanks from the 76ers. Not attaching Jared McCain to Paul George to order to get a terrible playoff performer and a good 3 and D player who has already has reached his ceiling.

[shrink]

This might be a homer influenced post but I think people are tripping a little on PG’s contract. There’s three years left now, PG’s 34, plus PG would’ve likely played like 65-70 games this year if the Sixers were trying to win. He did have a pretty bad year but so did all the Sixers, and even then he was still useful and good.

I don’t think it has big positive value but I think people are getting carried away with how awful it is. It seems very likely he’s a good player for at least 2 more seasons, and none of his injuries were serious this year. Seems like people are maybe mentally tying him in with the general disaster of the Sixers season and talking about his contract at his/its low point, like he’s guaranteed to be as bad as this Sixers season for the next 3 years.

Neutral fans here voted Paul George the second worst contract in the NBA, behind only Bradley Beal with a no trade clause.

[jayjaysee]

I think Philly can win on value but still not do the OP.

But the other teams can cut out Philly.

I like NAW in Detroit a lot. I think it should be a bit cheaper than 18 mil per year but worth it if it’s front loaded as Det has the wiggle room tbe next two years anyways. I’d want the fourth year added in if I’m overpaying in the beginning though?

[HotelVitale]

This might be a homer influenced post but I think people are tripping a little on PG’s contract. There’s three years left now, PG’s 34, plus PG would’ve likely played like 65-70 games this year if the Sixers were trying to win. He did have a pretty bad year but so did all the Sixers, and even then he was still useful and good.

I don’t think it has big positive value but I think people are getting carried away with how awful it is. It seems very likely he’s a good player for at least 2 more seasons, and none of his injuries were serious this year. Seems like people are maybe mentally tying him in with the general disaster of the Sixers season and talking about his contract at his/its low point, like he’s guaranteed to be as bad as this Sixers season for the next 3 years.

Neutral fans here voted Paul George the second worst contract in the NBA, behind only Bradley Beal with a no trade clause.

That’s what I’m saying, the negative valuation seems like at least partly a prisoner-of-moment/vibes thing. This time last year he was viewed as positive value, but now he’s massively negative despite him not suffering any real injury and not looking washed on court when the team was still trying to win. I’m not saying he has great value or anything but I do think that huge drop off is in part because a) the team obviously sat him for the last 20+ games as part of the tank (so he played half a season instead of 3/4) and b) everything associated with the Sixers plan flopped and everyone want to run from it.

Just saying I don’t think nearly as much has changed of PG the on court player+contract as has changed the feeling/perception of his contract.

[jredsaz]

I couldn't see any team taking on George without massive incentive.

If you want to call McCain that incentive, sure, but then you have Phoenix also giving up Durant.

I guess im really high on mccain.. maybe philly owes more value

I mean that saddles the Suns with the two worst contracts in the sport. McCain is good but damn. For me, as a Suns fan, comes up very short of what I’m looking for.

[the_process]

I couldn't see any team taking on George without massive incentive.

If you want to call McCain that incentive, sure, but then you have Phoenix also giving up Durant.

I guess im really high on mccain.. maybe philly owes more value

I mean that saddles the Suns with the two worst contracts in the sport. McCain is good but damn. For me, as a Suns fan, comes up very short of what I’m looking for.

I don't see you guys cutting a bunch of money. Rather, I see you trying to get another vet to go with Booker plus some assets for KD and then pray Beal will waive his NTC.

[wolves_89]

Personally, I really hope the Wolves don't pursue Durant this offseason. Between the contract situation, age (and associated decline), and health questions I think Durant to Minnesota is a bad idea. I just don't have enough confidence in KD's on-court availability and age 37 production to convince myself this would make the Wolves a title contender, and if that is the case there is no reason to mortage future assets to acquire him.

[Mr Puddles]

Neutral fans here voted Paul George the second worst contract in the NBA, behind only Bradley Beal with a no trade clause.

Bradley Beal is younger, has about 52 mil less owed on his contract (a year shorter) and had a better season last year than George statistically.

I'm honestly wondering why anyone would consider George a better contract at this point.

Common stats:

Bradley Beal

• Games Played (GP): 53
  
• Points per Game (PTS): 17.0
  
• Rebounds per Game (REB): 3.3
  
• Assists per Game (AST): 3.7
  
• Steals per Game (STL): 1.1
  
• Blocks per Game (BLK): 0.6
  
• Field Goal % (FG%): 49.7
  
• Three-Point % (3P%): 38.2
  
• Free Throw % (FT%): 79.5
  
• Turnovers per Game (TO): 1.9

Paul George

• Games Played (GP): 41
  
• Points per Game (PTS): 16.2
  
• Rebounds per Game (REB): 5.3
  
• Assists per Game (AST): 4.3
  
• Steals per Game (STL): 1.8
  
• Blocks per Game (BLK): 0.5
  
• Field Goal % (FG%): 43.0
  
• Three-Point % (3P%): 35.8
  
• Free Throw % (FT%): 81.4
  
• Turnovers per Game (TO): 2.6

---
Advanced stats

Bradley Beal

• Usage Rate (USG%): 23.7
  
• Offensive Rating (ORTG): 116.6
  
• Defensive Rating (DRTG): 119.2
  
• Net Rating: -2.7
  
• True Shooting % (TS%): 59.4
  

Paul George

• Usage Rate (USG%): 23.7
  
• Offensive Rating (ORTG): 104.3
  
• Defensive Rating (DRTG): 116.8
  
• Net Rating: -12.5
  
• True Shooting % (TS%): 54.3
  

[schaffy]

I'm honestly wondering why anyone would consider George a better contract at this point.

Because George's contract you could, theoretically, trade to whomever you wanted to if you really wanted it gone. Beal's you can only trade if he says so, which could mean it cant even be traded if he doesnt want to.

If we are comparing bad deals that people really dont want, thats a trump card.

[Mr Puddles]

I'm honestly wondering why anyone would consider George a better contract at this point.

Because George's contract you could, theoretically, trade to whomever you wanted to if you really wanted it gone. Beal's you can only trade if he says so, which could mean it cant even be traded if he doesnt want to.

If we are comparing bad deals that people really dont want, thats a trump card.

Both contracts are pretty much untradeable. I'd rather have the contract that expires earlier than the one I could trade without the player's approval considering that massive incentive would need to be added to trade the contract. The best course of action for either contract is probably to let them run their course.

[schaffy]

I'm honestly wondering why anyone would consider George a better contract at this point.

Because George's contract you could, theoretically, trade to whomever you wanted to if you really wanted it gone. Beal's you can only trade if he says so, which could mean it cant even be traded if he doesnt want to.

If we are comparing bad deals that people really dont want, thats a trump card.

Both contracts are pretty much untradeable. I'd rather have the contract that expires earlier than the one I could trade without the player's approval considering that massive incentive would need to be added to trade the contract. The best course of action for either contract is probably to let them run their course.

Thats a fair take -- in the case of really bad, shorter is better. I think others can come to a different conclusion; that they think the contract that a team doesnt have final control over its movement is worse.

[tmorgan]

Well, I advocated hard for Embiid as #2 over PG, but I can’t imagine that makes anyone in Philadelphia feel better.

I think there’s a real possibility George re-establishes some value next year, perhaps even as far as going from awful contract to neutral. Still, it’s hardly a guarantee as he’s aging and being a big time athlete was part of his appeal in the past. Given this, if I were Morey, I definitely wouldn’t pay to move him along. I’d hope Embiid either miraculously recovers or medically retires, play my young guard trio, and hope for a better year first.

[jredsaz]

I guess im really high on mccain.. maybe philly owes more value

I mean that saddles the Suns with the two worst contracts in the sport. McCain is good but damn. For me, as a Suns fan, comes up very short of what I’m looking for.

I don't see you guys cutting a bunch of money. Rather, I see you trying to get another vet to go with Booker plus some assets for KD and then pray Beal will waive his NTC.

Yeah, I’m not sure I’d trade Beal for PG without a sweetener. McCain is awesome but PGs contract looks like an absolute albatross.

[jredsaz]

I'm honestly wondering why anyone would consider George a better contract at this point.

Because George's contract you could, theoretically, trade to whomever you wanted to if you really wanted it gone. Beal's you can only trade if he says so, which could mean it cant even be traded if he doesnt want to.

If we are comparing bad deals that people really dont want, thats a trump card.

Both contracts are pretty much untradeable. I'd rather have the contract that expires earlier than the one I could trade without the player's approval considering that massive incentive would need to be added to trade the contract. The best course of action for either contract is probably to let them run their course.

I agree that the trump card is actually the length but both contracts look absolutely awful right now

[Ghost of Kleine]

Mccain is worth multiple picks (i might be too high on him though?)

Shannon + 4 seconds is about a first

McCain had a nice 20 game stretch in his rookie year. Definitely not enough to bridge the gap between one of the best players in the NBA and the worst contract in the NBA.

The value is way off here. Other than altruism I see absolutely no incentive for the Suns to do this. They handicap themselves with the two worst contracts in the league for the next 2-3 years with zero first round draft incentive to show for it.

In your trade scenario, why wouldn't the Suns just directly deal with Minnesota? That deal is much better for them.

Ya i was toying with including sixers or not for the OP.

I figured given their lack of assets eating bad money is the only way for them to acquire high value prospects to guide them through the upcoming pick-less years for mpre sustained competitiveness. Randle and DDV are more of a bandaid fix.

If your cap is already in hell thx to beal then it doesnt really hurt to add george too? Out side of tax payments from owner anyway..

This trade is just beyond horrific for Phoenix man. Giving up the best asset in the trade just to facilitate both other teams stealing value from Phoenix. And we eat a terrible contract in George but get no legitimate premium assets back?

Phoenix wouldn't touch this at all! Because the value isn't remotely close. And we're taking on another terrible contract in George that's longer than Beal's, and the logic is because we're already in a bad cap situation so somehow why not make it worse???

Beal comes off the books in 27-28. George doesn't come off the Books until a full year later at 56 million. And some end of bench unproven rookies and a couple 2nds somehow are enough compensation to give up the best asset for the worst and also eat another 56 million on top of everything?

If Philly called with this offer, Phoenix would laugh, hang up, block the 76ers number and possibly even file a restraining order!

It's just far from anything they'd even consider!

[Ghost of Kleine]

I'm honestly wondering why anyone would consider George a better contract at this point.

Because George's contract you could, theoretically, trade to whomever you wanted to if you really wanted it gone. Beal's you can only trade if he says so, which could mean it cant even be traded if he doesnt want to.

If we are comparing bad deals that people really dont want, thats a trump card.

Yes! That's true that George's contract doesn't have the dreaded NTC. But if it was at all true that George could be traded anywhere and that a team would actually want him, then why haven't the 76ers traded him already? His contract is viewed only slightly better than Beal's by virtue of not having the NTC but neither contract is really desirable or movable.

And Beal's would be much more palatable to work around/ buyout as an expiring contract after this next season. There's just no logical reason to consider taking on an extra year of a massively bad contract. And McCain/ Shannon Jr and some 2nds unfortunately don't come close to bridging that immense value swing!

[winforlose]

Phoenix trade: Durant, Martin
Phoenix receive: George, McCain, Shannon Jr, 4? future 2nds from Detroit

Philadelphia trade: George, McCain
Philadelphia receive: Randle, Divicenzo, Fontecchio, Sasser

Minnesota trade: Randle, Divicenzo, Shannon Jr, NAW (S&T 3/54M declining contract)
Minnesota receive: Durant

Detroit trade: Fontecchio, Sasser, 4? future 2nds
Detroit receive: NAW (S&T 3/54M declining contract), Martin

How to make it legal via 2 separate trades since phoenix cant aggregate:

Spoiler:

Trade 1

Phoenix trade: Durant
Phoenix receive: George, Shannon Jr, future 2nds from Detroit

Philadelphia trade: George, McCain
Philadelphia receive: Randle, Divicenzo, Fontecchio, Sasser

Minnesota trade: Randle, Divicenzo, Shannon Jr, NAW (S&T 3/54M declining contract)
Minnesota receive: Durant

Detroit trade: Fontecchio, Sasser, 4? future 2nds
Detroit receive: NAW (S&T 3/54M declining contract), McCain (into MLE exception or Room exception or whatever exception they have)

Trade 2 ("simultaneous"/right after)

Phoenix trade: Martin
Phoenix receive: McCain

Detroit trade: McCain
Detroit receive: Martin

Why for Phoenix: Eat George's contract to pick up a blue chip prospect in McCain and some other assets
Why for Philly: get out of PG's contract and get back vets to help them compete next year
Why for Minny: get KD w/o losing mcdaniels
Why for Detroit: add an excellent 2-way fit next to Cade and Ivey
Why for NAW: get above MLE money to play for an up and coming team

I feel like Minny owes a bit more value... maybe throw in a future swap from them? not sure.

1. Doesn’t the S&T hardcap Detroit. Do they have the salary room to make this work? I am honestly asking as I have not checked.

2. I hope the Wolves reject this. Durant is 37 and expiring. Not to mention that he can leverage a 2 year 120 and then retire in year 2 of his new deal. DDV is still prime, NAW is entering his prime, TSJ has a lot of potential, and Randle can be part of a better deal for us. That is a ton of value to give away for a player famous for leaving and not part of the teams long term future for when Ant, Jaden, and Naz all enter their primes.

[youngcrev]

Phoenix trade: Durant, Martin
Phoenix receive: George, McCain, Shannon Jr, 4? future 2nds from Detroit

Philadelphia trade: George, McCain
Philadelphia receive: Randle, Divicenzo, Fontecchio, Sasser

Minnesota trade: Randle, Divicenzo, Shannon Jr, NAW (S&T 3/54M declining contract)
Minnesota receive: Durant

Detroit trade: Fontecchio, Sasser, 4? future 2nds
Detroit receive: NAW (S&T 3/54M declining contract), Martin

How to make it legal via 2 separate trades since phoenix cant aggregate:

Spoiler:

Trade 1

Phoenix trade: Durant
Phoenix receive: George, Shannon Jr, future 2nds from Detroit

Philadelphia trade: George, McCain
Philadelphia receive: Randle, Divicenzo, Fontecchio, Sasser

Minnesota trade: Randle, Divicenzo, Shannon Jr, NAW (S&T 3/54M declining contract)
Minnesota receive: Durant

Detroit trade: Fontecchio, Sasser, 4? future 2nds
Detroit receive: NAW (S&T 3/54M declining contract), McCain (into MLE exception or Room exception or whatever exception they have)

Trade 2 ("simultaneous"/right after)

Phoenix trade: Martin
Phoenix receive: McCain

Detroit trade: McCain
Detroit receive: Martin

Why for Phoenix: Eat George's contract to pick up a blue chip prospect in McCain and some other assets
Why for Philly: get out of PG's contract and get back vets to help them compete next year
Why for Minny: get KD w/o losing mcdaniels
Why for Detroit: add an excellent 2-way fit next to Cade and Ivey
Why for NAW: get above MLE money to play for an up and coming team

I feel like Minny owes a bit more value... maybe throw in a future swap from them? not sure.

Looking at the trade in total, if the Sixers goal here is to get out of PGs contract and compete for next year... Why aren't they just ponying up the minimal extra assets you have going to the Suns here to get Kevin Durant?

I could at least see that direction if they really wanted to double down on Embiid's health yet again.

As constructed, I think the Sixers end up with a worse roster, so it's really a deal that gives up a potential building block player for future cap relief... Which I don't think makes sense for the team.