Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
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Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
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Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
borrowing Astaluego's idea(s)
Dallas trade: Gafford, Klay
Dallas receive: Holiday, 28
Boston trade: Holiday, #28
Boston receive: Vincent, Milton, future 2nds
Atlanta trade: future 2nds
Atlanta receive: Gafford
LAL trade: Milton, Vincent
LAL receive: Klay
Why for Dallas: take on the aging holiday to fill backcourt hole and get a pick for their trouble
Why for Boston: Salary dump
Why for Atlanta: fill C hole
Why for LAL: add shooting next to doncic/lebron
shuffle some 2nds around if i'm off
Dallas trade: Gafford, Klay
Dallas receive: Holiday, 28
Boston trade: Holiday, #28
Boston receive: Vincent, Milton, future 2nds
Atlanta trade: future 2nds
Atlanta receive: Gafford
LAL trade: Milton, Vincent
LAL receive: Klay
Why for Dallas: take on the aging holiday to fill backcourt hole and get a pick for their trouble
Why for Boston: Salary dump
Why for Atlanta: fill C hole
Why for LAL: add shooting next to doncic/lebron
shuffle some 2nds around if i'm off
Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
Jrue is way better than this, Dallas is stealing him.
I bought a boat.
Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
eminence wrote:Jrue is way better than this, Dallas is stealing him.
his numbers took a dip this year and he is turning 35 soon. maybe he was just coasting for regular season though and if he has another playoff camapaign like last year then you're right
Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
Lakers cut Mavs and Hawks, dumps Kleber somewhere and take Holiday.
Defense wins draft lotteries!
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
Mavrelous wrote:Lakers cut Mavs and Hawks, dumps Kleber somewhere and take Holiday.
i think they will struggle fitting under the 1st apron if they do that. They need to dump Rui too, at which point i'm not sure its worth it for them on court
Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
Godaddycurse wrote:Mavrelous wrote:Lakers cut Mavs and Hawks, dumps Kleber somewhere and take Holiday.
i think they will struggle fitting under the 1st apron if they do that.
Yeah, maybe they use #28 and dump Vando also, but yeah Klay is more realistic.
Defense wins draft lotteries!
Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
Godaddycurse wrote:eminence wrote:Jrue is way better than this, Dallas is stealing him.
his numbers took a dip this year and he is turning 35 soon. maybe he was just coasting for regular season though and if he has another playoff camapaign like last year then you're right
Jrue 2024 Post-Season (Per 36): 12.5/5.8/4.1 on 61 TS%
Jrue 2025 Regular Season (Per 36): 13.0/5.0/4.0 on 57 TS%
Essentially your argument is Jrue 2.5/6.3 3PA instead of 2.8/8.1 3PA, which boils down to Jrue making 40 3's in 100 shots instead of 35 3's in 100 shots and that is how he has regressed?
5 3-Point makes in 100 attempts is how we are deciding if a player has regressed or not?
Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
ReggiesKnicks wrote:Godaddycurse wrote:eminence wrote:Jrue is way better than this, Dallas is stealing him.
his numbers took a dip this year and he is turning 35 soon. maybe he was just coasting for regular season though and if he has another playoff camapaign like last year then you're right
Jrue 2024 Post-Season (Per 36): 12.5/5.8/4.1 on 61 TS%
Jrue 2025 Regular Season (Per 36): 13.0/5.0/4.0 on 57 TS%
Essentially your argument is Jrue 2.5/6.3 3PA instead of 2.8/8.1 3PA, which boils down to Jrue making 40 3's in 100 shots instead of 35 3's in 100 shots and that is how he has regressed?
5 3-Point makes in 100 attempts is how we are deciding if a player has regressed or not?
IIRC his defense was also very good last year during playoffs and he wasn't quite the same on D this season?
Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
eminence wrote:Jrue is way better than this, Dallas is stealing him.
Jrue will turn 35 this summer, his trend is clearly downward, he still has 3 years left after this one.., the Celtics are immersed in salary hell, they will have to cut money no matter what, and they have Pritchard who plays in the same position.. of course he can still play, and that is the reason (in my opinion) why they can trade him without giving up much value, he is one injury (or bad playoffs) away from becoming a negative contract... as for OP (would cut Lakers) I think the Mavs keep Klay (we need his shooting) and send Martin/Powell/O-Max instead (Boston can keep the pick)
Gafford to HAWKS
Jrue to MAVS
Martín/O-Max to BOSTON
Boston saves a ton of present and future money.. they also get a veteran playoff-proven two-way player and a wing prospect.
Powell+SRP's(Hawks) Cap Space to 4 Team
Old Mike Lorenzo
Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
I think Jrue is still good. Not sure on the value on that contract though? Can't imagine the market is wide at all. But I'd be okay pulling out pick #28 and seeing if Boston would chip in a future 2nd or two just as greasers for Dallas who currently lacks those.
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
Godaddycurse wrote:borrowing Astaluego's idea(s)
Dallas trade: Gafford, Klay
Dallas receive: Holiday, 28
Boston trade: Holiday, #28
Boston receive: Vincent, Milton, future 2nds
Atlanta trade: future 2nds
Atlanta receive: Gafford
LAL trade: Milton, Vincent
LAL receive: Klay
Celts probably will need to get under the apron this summer. This probably means trading Jrue and taking back way less money than this. I suggested in the Jrue thread, a Jrue to the Raps, Barrett to the Nets, Ja'Kobe Walter to the Celts. Problem with this move is Celts taking back $15 million in Gabe and Shake.
The Celts ownership really screwed up either by themselves or in concert with Brad/Mike because they literally signed these extensions in the months and, in White's case, hours before they announced they were selling the team. Hauser and white were both signed for this season and now, if Celts have to cut $30+ million they have boxed themselves into a very low leverage situation and maybe it won't hurt them but they definitely did not need to do it. They could have extended Jrue and let Sam and White play out their existing contracts or just sign Sam and then decide what to do... I know Brad said he didn't know the team was going to be listed but ... they really put themselves into this situation that they DID NOT HAVE to where everyone knows they need to dump salary. Hopefully, speaking as a Celtics fan, it doesn't cost too much to rectify... but it wasn't necessary at all.
Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
Oh I think they 100% knew when they signed those deals they were selling the team and the idea was keep everyone happy while we are here, it won't impact the sale price at all, and let the new guys be the bad guys for any cost cutting. Now maybe Brad should have stepped in as the steward of the thing and talked them out of this, but he probably knows his future is up in the air anyway because new guys tend to want their guys.
No idea though why Toronto wants Jrue or worse why the Nets want to spend their money on RJ. Raps aren't ready to win and the Nets would want assets if they are taking on that contract and even then they probably want to be competing by 26-27. And with Boston contributing no value, I can't see how that deal comes off at all.
No idea though why Toronto wants Jrue or worse why the Nets want to spend their money on RJ. Raps aren't ready to win and the Nets would want assets if they are taking on that contract and even then they probably want to be competing by 26-27. And with Boston contributing no value, I can't see how that deal comes off at all.
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
I'd rather take Gafford than Vincent for Boston, especially if Horford hangs em up after this year. Frontcourt seems to be their biggest position of risk with KP whereas they've got some solid wing and guard depth even if Jrue goes out the door.
Bring in another team to eat Klay and/or the salary filler LA needs to send out to take him on. C's take some swings with vet minimum FA's and rookies to try and bring in cheap depth.
I also like Jrue for the Lakers but don't have any interest in Vando or Vincent coming back as filler.
Bring in another team to eat Klay and/or the salary filler LA needs to send out to take him on. C's take some swings with vet minimum FA's and rookies to try and bring in cheap depth.
I also like Jrue for the Lakers but don't have any interest in Vando or Vincent coming back as filler.
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
cl2117 wrote:I'd rather take Gafford than Vincent for Boston, especially if Horford hangs em up after this year. Frontcourt seems to be their biggest position of risk with KP whereas they've got some solid wing and guard depth even if Jrue goes out the door.
Bring in another team to eat Klay and/or the salary filler LA needs to send out to take him on. C's take some swings with vet minimum FA's and rookies to try and bring in cheap depth.
I also like Jrue for the Lakers but don't have any interest in Vando or Vincent coming back as filler.
Maybe the deal could be simplified to Jrue to Dallas, Gafford to Boston, Klay/28 to Detroit? Detroit started THJ this year and Klay is still better than him. Plus they pick up another little sweetener. Or maybe Brooklyn takes Klay to get the pick?
Boston saves a bunch more money and gets needed center depth. Dallas gets Jrue. And since most seem to think Dallas got too good a deal it addresss that value issue as well.
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Texas Chuck wrote:Oh I think they 100% knew when they signed those deals they were selling the team and the idea was keep everyone happy while we are here, it won't impact the sale price at all, and let the new guys be the bad guys for any cost cutting. Now maybe Brad should have stepped in as the steward of the thing and talked them out of this, but he probably knows his future is up in the air anyway because new guys tend to want their guys.
For sure the owners knew they were gonna sell the team when they were extending Jrue, Sam and White. But Brad Stevens said he didn't know, which had to be a gutpunch because the release from basketball ops went out in the AM announcing White's extension. And then the owners released a second press release saying the team was for sale, if my memory is correct, on literally the same day.
But White was already signed for this season. As was Sam Hauser. Holiday could have left last summer because he had an opt out, so I get why that extension got priority. If Brad knew the Grousbeck's were selling the team, it'd be more prudent to let White play out his contract this year. Youd still have the option in summer of 25 to find a Jrue Holiday trade if Brad prefers to retain White. This way, the team atleast retains the leverage/optionality that they don't HAVE to do anything, they could let White leave in FA if it came to that.
Because how things stand now, there is a chance that nobody is going to be willing to help Boston out of their tax hell without receiving a haul of draft compensation and that is a spot the Celtics needlessly put themselves into, imo
Texas Chuck wrote:No idea though why Toronto wants Jrue or worse why the Nets want to spend their money on RJ. Raps aren't ready to win and the Nets would want assets if they are taking on that contract and even then they probably want to be competing by 26-27. And with Boston contributing no value, I can't see how that deal comes off at all.
If Jrue has a strong playoffs, he's gonna look like he's got 2 years left. Look at Chris Paul when he was 35, there was still a good bit of bball left. And then Jrue's 3rd year he's an expiring. Word on the street was that Toronto was not happy with RJ Barrett's professionalism and they notably went and got Brandon Ingram on a big number who plays Barretts position. Probably for a deal like this to work, there'd be some pick compensation to Brooklyn to take RJ and then he's a big contract for the deadline or next offseason that Brooklyn can put in a deal with picks for a marque big name, Giannis or whoever...
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
BOS cuts ATL out here for step 1.
Dallas trade: Gafford, Klay
Dallas receive: Holiday, #28
Boston trade: Holiday, #28
Boston receive: Gafford, Vincent, Milton
LAL trade: Milton, Vincent
LAL receive: Klay
I'd argue that #28, if included in this deal at all, should go to LAL rather than Dallas. But whatever.
Next, the Celtics some of their own 2nd rounders (possibly including #32 this year) to pay some team to take Vincent into cap space or their MLE as an expiring contract. Milton they dump as well, though that shouldn't cost much.
Next, the Celtics would look to extend Gafford.
The end result would be that the Celtics turn Holiday's contract into Gafford which leaves them still in the 2nd apron but significant savings this year. Looking ahead to 2026-27, they're now in great position to duck the luxury tax altogether and start resetting their repeater rate status.
With swapping out Jrue for an extended Gafford they'd have the following players under contract for 26-27:
White / Pritchard
Brown
Hauser / Scheierman / Walsh
Tatum
Gafford / Queta
plus their 2026 first rounder (let's ay it's #28 again)
Those 9 players amount to $175,197,554 in salary plus whatever Gafford extends for. That leaves them $31.5M below the luxury tax. The maximum salary Gafford can extend for is about $20.15M. So BOS would have about $10M to fill in the last 5 spots and avoid the luxury tax altogether for 2026-27.
Dallas trade: Gafford, Klay
Dallas receive: Holiday, #28
Boston trade: Holiday, #28
Boston receive: Gafford, Vincent, Milton
LAL trade: Milton, Vincent
LAL receive: Klay
I'd argue that #28, if included in this deal at all, should go to LAL rather than Dallas. But whatever.
Next, the Celtics some of their own 2nd rounders (possibly including #32 this year) to pay some team to take Vincent into cap space or their MLE as an expiring contract. Milton they dump as well, though that shouldn't cost much.
Next, the Celtics would look to extend Gafford.
The end result would be that the Celtics turn Holiday's contract into Gafford which leaves them still in the 2nd apron but significant savings this year. Looking ahead to 2026-27, they're now in great position to duck the luxury tax altogether and start resetting their repeater rate status.
With swapping out Jrue for an extended Gafford they'd have the following players under contract for 26-27:
White / Pritchard
Brown
Hauser / Scheierman / Walsh
Tatum
Gafford / Queta
plus their 2026 first rounder (let's ay it's #28 again)
Those 9 players amount to $175,197,554 in salary plus whatever Gafford extends for. That leaves them $31.5M below the luxury tax. The maximum salary Gafford can extend for is about $20.15M. So BOS would have about $10M to fill in the last 5 spots and avoid the luxury tax altogether for 2026-27.
Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
redslastlaugh wrote:If Jrue has a strong playoffs, he's gonna look like he's got 2 years left. Look at Chris Paul when he was 35, there was still a good bit of bball left. And then Jrue's 3rd year he's an expiring. Word on the street was that Toronto was not happy with RJ Barrett's professionalism and they notably went and got Brandon Ingram on a big number who plays Barretts position. Probably for a deal like this to work, there'd be some pick compensation to Brooklyn to take RJ and then he's a big contract for the deadline or next offseason that Brooklyn can put in a deal with picks for a marque big name, Giannis or whoever...
Got ya. And I am a believer in Jrue--hence me being on board with the deal for Dallas and even willing to give back value. Just not sure Toronto is ready to capitalize on him? That roster still feels like a mess even with him in for RJ. I guess though if they get one of the studs in this draft they may say let's bring in one of the very best mentors in the entire league who can also provide some stability and some play the right way?
But yeah I love Jrue. He was always my desired target for the Mavs before the Bucks(and later Boston) got him. Wanted him paired with Luka.
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
Yeah. Think this is a deal all sides do if Boston is wanting to cut salary? Though I really think Atl is the odd man out, not LAL. Either LAL adds something to get Gafford and dumps salary or Boston wants him themselves..
If Dallas has to settle for the Atlanta 2nds and Boston wants to keep 28, it’s probably still a deal everyone should do. Boston can look to dump Vincent with 28 or the Washington 2nd and their ownership can feel a lot better..
LAL probably needs to send out more salary though? Minor stuff but yeah? Doubt LBJ/Luka want LAL hard capping themselves at the first apron over Klay..
If Dallas has to settle for the Atlanta 2nds and Boston wants to keep 28, it’s probably still a deal everyone should do. Boston can look to dump Vincent with 28 or the Washington 2nd and their ownership can feel a lot better..
LAL probably needs to send out more salary though? Minor stuff but yeah? Doubt LBJ/Luka want LAL hard capping themselves at the first apron over Klay..
Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
Texas Chuck wrote:But yeah I love Jrue. He was always my desired target for the Mavs before the Bucks(and later Boston) got him. Wanted him paired with Luka.
Jrue is awesome. He's coasted a bit through the doldrums of this season but he's been locked in last 20 games and hopefully has another great run. Really, last yr, Jrue was the secret sauce for Boston's championship, just a huuuge impact make-it-happen maestro in playoff basketball, just look at his +/- last year playoffs. I've argued, if the Celts can only keep one between Holiday and White, Boston should keep Jrue even being 4 yrs older than White. But most people don't agree... Anyway, yea, I'm also a just big fan of Jrue's game
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Re: Boston - Dallas - Atlanta - LAL
Texas Chuck wrote:Oh I think they 100% knew when they signed those deals they were selling the team and the idea was keep everyone happy while we are here, it won't impact the sale price at all, and let the new guys be the bad guys for any cost cutting. Now maybe Brad should have stepped in as the steward of the thing and talked them out of this, but he probably knows his future is up in the air anyway because new guys tend to want their guys.
No idea though why Toronto wants Jrue or worse why the Nets want to spend their money on RJ. Raps aren't ready to win and the Nets would want assets if they are taking on that contract and even then they probably want to be competing by 26-27. And with Boston contributing no value, I can't see how that deal comes off at all.
Maybe I'm naive because while it's true new guys want "their guys" I think Brad is one of those guys who is probably "everyone's guy". The results so far kind of speak for themselves and by all accounts he's a pretty easy personality to work with. It's not even someone like Ainge where while he had results you can definitely see him having friction with a new ownership group. I'd be absolutely floored if new ownership looks to being someone else in over Brad.
I also think a lot of people have focused on next year's tax bill with all of BOS's extensions but what often gets lost is that they've still left themselves in pretty solid position to duck the luxury tax altogether in 2026-27. Not the 2nd apron - the luxury tax altogether. If you forecast contracts for players drafted at #28 and #32 this year (the picks they have) and then also assume they pick #28 again in 2026, then they have (by my calculations), $214,483,477 committed for the 2026-27 season right now for 12 players:
White / Pritchard
Holiday / Scheierman
Brown / Hauser
Tatum
Queta
plus whoever they take at #28 and #32 in 2025, #28 in 2026
That puts them about $7,796,477 over the projected tax line with 2 roster spots to fill. So probably closer to $10M. But that's not an exorbitant amount to clear.
My expectation remains that they look to move Jrue this offseason in a deal that essentially breaks his salary slot in half to 2 players. One of them will be used on expiring filler that they then attach future picks to as a salary dump to reduce their tax bill. The 2nd will be
The Gafford/Vincent names here are a perfect example. Keep Gafford for themselves and extend him. Take Holiday out from above and include him at whatever his extension in and they clear enough room to duck the tax altogether (his max extension is like $20M compared to the $34.8M that Holiday is on the books for in this breakdown).
If Porzingis is worth keeping and still expensive then they clear room to keep him by dumping Gafford on his extension, Hauser, and/or Pritchard.
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