Anthony Black - Arkansas

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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#621 » by basketballRob » Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:37 pm

VFX wrote:
ReggiesKnicks wrote:
VFX wrote:
He's not really playing less than Cory Joseph. He just isn't starting.
CJ is starting because AB is nearly inconsequential when he's with Franz+Paolo IF he isn't stretching the floor.

He's entirely too inconsistent right now in that aspect. He has the same tendencies those guys have driving to the rim 90% of the time, so he limits the offense if he isnt ready to shoot from outside.

Good defender.
Decent playmaker.
Isn't really helpful to the overall offense if he can't stretch the floor with either of those guys next to him.

Last game against Atlanta for the play-in was more of an anomaly than the status quo.
Magic fans hope he trends that way for the sake of the poor offense.


The ultimate reason is Orlando lacks shooting from its stars (Paolo, Wagner) while KCP/Cole/Harris have all been inconsistent from 3. Add in the fact they play guys like Johnathan Isaac who can't shoot as a non-Center and they desperately need shooting, and that is why Cory Joseph is playing rotation minutes.

At the end of the day the Magic are a terrible offense with little shooting and the easiest position to add shooting is at PG. Black may need a change of scenery is Orlando needs to surround Paolo/Wagner/Center with 2 bonafide shooters. Hell, imagine if Suggs comes back as a 35% shooter and not a 38% shooter, the offense will continue to be anemic.


Yes and no.

You are right that Orlando lacks shooting from it's stars.

Cory Joseph is starting because he can actually move the basketball and push the tempo. Orlando's shooting is a large part of the issue, but the offense is also entirely predictable and slow as ****. Suggs shot .400 from 3 last season, before they acquired KCP, and the offense was still garbage for this reason.

Black has a duplicate skill set to Franz and Paolo in terms of how he scores a majority of the time. He's a good defender, but he isnt as useful in Orlando's offense unless he can shoot. He isnt making plays with the ball enough to justify otherwise. Those two guys are going to have the ball in their hands a majority of the time with Black on the floor, which is why hes coming off the bench albeit playing more minutes throughout the course of the game.
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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#622 » by basketballRob » Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:38 pm

Black is ahead of where Suggs and Cole was after year 2, and he's 7-8 months younger than they were
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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#623 » by SeattleJazzFan » Fri Apr 18, 2025 6:06 pm

bottom line for black. he's a role player who contributes to winning and you can never have enough of those guys on your team. essentially he's the magic's version of derrick white and has a chance to be that good someday. he's already doing those same sorts of things out on the court. taking care of the ball, defending, taking good shots, making plays for teammates, moving without the ball, etc.
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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#624 » by EvanZ » Fri Apr 18, 2025 6:54 pm

SeattleJazzFan wrote:bottom line for black. he's a role player who contributes to winning and you can never have enough of those guys on your team. essentially he's the magic's version of derrick white and has a chance to be that good someday. he's already doing those same sorts of things out on the court. taking care of the ball, defending, taking good shots, making plays for teammates, moving without the ball, etc.


Yeah about comparing Anthony Black to a dude who just averaged 38% on 9 3PA per game... :banghead:
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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#625 » by basketballRob » Fri Apr 18, 2025 7:04 pm

SeattleJazzFan wrote:bottom line for black. he's a role player who contributes to winning and you can never have enough of those guys on your team. essentially he's the magic's version of derrick white and has a chance to be that good someday. he's already doing those same sorts of things out on the court. taking care of the ball, defending, taking good shots, making plays for teammates, moving without the ball, etc.
That's really good for his age. I think he eventually makes a couple of all-star teams.

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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#626 » by basketballRob » Fri Apr 18, 2025 7:07 pm

EvanZ wrote:
SeattleJazzFan wrote:bottom line for black. he's a role player who contributes to winning and you can never have enough of those guys on your team. essentially he's the magic's version of derrick white and has a chance to be that good someday. he's already doing those same sorts of things out on the court. taking care of the ball, defending, taking good shots, making plays for teammates, moving without the ball, etc.


Yeah about comparing Anthony Black to a dude who just averaged 38% on 9 3PA per game... :banghead:
Derrick White was 2 years older than Black is right now when he was drafted and averaged 3.2 ppg his first season. I think the poster meant eventually and not essentially.

Defensively, he's comparable to White right now.

https://youtu.be/JHONwO-V6VU?si=mzjN6H7NzcWooos4

https://youtu.be/sevKJ_sFFSw?si=Q7PV9_CKU-uv1Y3O

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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#627 » by ReggiesKnicks » Fri Apr 18, 2025 8:18 pm

VFX wrote:
ReggiesKnicks wrote:
VFX wrote:
He's not really playing less than Cory Joseph. He just isn't starting.
CJ is starting because AB is nearly inconsequential when he's with Franz+Paolo IF he isn't stretching the floor.

He's entirely too inconsistent right now in that aspect. He has the same tendencies those guys have driving to the rim 90% of the time, so he limits the offense if he isnt ready to shoot from outside.

Good defender.
Decent playmaker.
Isn't really helpful to the overall offense if he can't stretch the floor with either of those guys next to him.

Last game against Atlanta for the play-in was more of an anomaly than the status quo.
Magic fans hope he trends that way for the sake of the poor offense.


The ultimate reason is Orlando lacks shooting from its stars (Paolo, Wagner) while KCP/Cole/Harris have all been inconsistent from 3. Add in the fact they play guys like Johnathan Isaac who can't shoot as a non-Center and they desperately need shooting, and that is why Cory Joseph is playing rotation minutes.

At the end of the day the Magic are a terrible offense with little shooting and the easiest position to add shooting is at PG. Black may need a change of scenery is Orlando needs to surround Paolo/Wagner/Center with 2 bonafide shooters. Hell, imagine if Suggs comes back as a 35% shooter and not a 38% shooter, the offense will continue to be anemic.


Yes and no.

You are right that Orlando lacks shooting from it's stars.

Black has a duplicate skill set to Franz and Paolo in terms of how he scores a majority of the time. He's a good defender, but he isnt as useful in Orlando's offense unless he can shoot. He isnt making plays with the ball enough to justify otherwise. Those two guys are going to have the ball in their hands a majority of the time with Black on the floor, which is why hes coming off the bench albeit playing more minutes throughout the course of the game.


Yeah this is all fairly obvious stuff. I am projecting the future based on what I see. Black can be a Top 5-6 player on a team but Orlando doesn't have the environment for him to succeed given his limited skill-set.
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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#628 » by ReggiesKnicks » Fri Apr 18, 2025 8:22 pm

basketballRob wrote:Black is ahead of where Suggs and Cole was after year 2, and he's 7-8 months younger than they were


Not every player has the same developmental arc. Do you know how dumbfounded I am when I go to the Rookie of the Year Discussion thread and you have Spurs fans talking about how Castle is going to be just like Jimmy Butler and Kawhi Leonard?

The idea every player goes from 33% 3P to 40% 3P (Jalen Suggs) isn't normal or common.

Black averaged 32% from 3P this season on 5.2 3PA/100. Suggs was taking 7.8 3PA/100 in his 2nd season.

If you really want to focus on Suggs, he played 35 games this year and was back to a 32% 3P shooter.
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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#629 » by EvanZ » Fri Apr 18, 2025 8:51 pm

basketballRob wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
SeattleJazzFan wrote:bottom line for black. he's a role player who contributes to winning and you can never have enough of those guys on your team. essentially he's the magic's version of derrick white and has a chance to be that good someday. he's already doing those same sorts of things out on the court. taking care of the ball, defending, taking good shots, making plays for teammates, moving without the ball, etc.


Yeah about comparing Anthony Black to a dude who just averaged 38% on 9 3PA per game... :banghead:
Derrick White was 2 years older than Black is right now when he was drafted and averaged 3.2 ppg his first season. I think the poster meant eventually and not essentially.

Defensively, he's comparable to White right now.

https://youtu.be/JHONwO-V6VU?si=mzjN6H7NzcWooos4

https://youtu.be/sevKJ_sFFSw?si=Q7PV9_CKU-uv1Y3O

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lol that is some cope
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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#630 » by basketballRob » Fri Apr 18, 2025 9:41 pm

EvanZ wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Yeah about comparing Anthony Black to a dude who just averaged 38% on 9 3PA per game... :banghead:
Derrick White was 2 years older than Black is right now when he was drafted and averaged 3.2 ppg his first season. I think the poster meant eventually and not essentially.

Defensively, he's comparable to White right now.

https://youtu.be/JHONwO-V6VU?si=mzjN6H7NzcWooos4

https://youtu.be/sevKJ_sFFSw?si=Q7PV9_CKU-uv1Y3O

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lol that is some cope
Do you think White is better defensively? Black us a little higher in DBPM and White is a little higher in defensive EPM.

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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#631 » by EvanZ » Fri Apr 18, 2025 9:52 pm

basketballRob wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Derrick White was 2 years older than Black is right now when he was drafted and averaged 3.2 ppg his first season. I think the poster meant eventually and not essentially.

Defensively, he's comparable to White right now.

https://youtu.be/JHONwO-V6VU?si=mzjN6H7NzcWooos4

https://youtu.be/sevKJ_sFFSw?si=Q7PV9_CKU-uv1Y3O

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lol that is some cope
Do you think White is better defensively? Black us a little higher in DBPM and White is a little higher in defensive EPM.

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I think you're making an excuse for someone else's comment. You changed the argument. Unless Black can shoot there simply is no comparison between him and Derrick White. So get back to me when that happens.
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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#632 » by basketballRob » Fri Apr 18, 2025 10:20 pm

EvanZ wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
lol that is some cope
Do you think White is better defensively? Black us a little higher in DBPM and White is a little higher in defensive EPM.

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I think you're making an excuse for someone else's comment. You changed the argument. Unless Black can shoot there simply is no comparison between him and Derrick White. So get back to me when that happens.
We'll need to wait and see. White didn't even crack a rotation until he was 3.5 years older than Black is now and shot 34% on fewer attempts per game than Black had this season.

If Black guarded White this whole series, he would shut him down.

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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#633 » by ReggiesKnicks » Fri Apr 18, 2025 10:44 pm

basketballRob wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Do you think White is better defensively? Black us a little higher in DBPM and White is a little higher in defensive EPM.

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I think you're making an excuse for someone else's comment. You changed the argument. Unless Black can shoot there simply is no comparison between him and Derrick White. So get back to me when that happens.
We'll need to wait and see. White didn't even crack a rotation until he was 3.5 years older than Black is now and shot 34% on fewer attempts per game than Black had this season.

If Black guarded White this whole series, he would shut him down.

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Again, you can't project every player to develop the same.

Most players who entered the league like Derrick White don't show the same development as Derrick White. Most players who enter the league with as many tools as Anthony Black never reach Derrick White's level.

The most foolish thing fans do is compare their young player to some outlier developmental story and say "Look at what this player did, our young player will also develop in the same capacity!"

Anthony Black could become as good as Derrick White, but I wouldn't bet. Anthony Black could become a starting caliber Point Guard or forever be a 7th or 8th best player on a team.
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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#634 » by basketballRob » Fri Apr 18, 2025 11:59 pm

ReggiesKnicks wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
I think you're making an excuse for someone else's comment. You changed the argument. Unless Black can shoot there simply is no comparison between him and Derrick White. So get back to me when that happens.
We'll need to wait and see. White didn't even crack a rotation until he was 3.5 years older than Black is now and shot 34% on fewer attempts per game than Black had this season.

If Black guarded White this whole series, he would shut him down.

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Again, you can't project every player to develop the same.

Most players who entered the league like Derrick White don't show the same development as Derrick White. Most players who enter the league with as many tools as Anthony Black never reach Derrick White's level.

The most foolish thing fans do is compare their young player to some outlier developmental story and say "Look at what this player did, our young player will also develop in the same capacity!"

Anthony Black could become as good as Derrick White, but I wouldn't bet. Anthony Black could become a starting caliber Point Guard or forever be a 7th or 8th best player on a team.
I think Black should be better than White, but we'll need to wait and see

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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#635 » by EvanZ » Sat Apr 19, 2025 12:17 am

I am not a fan of Black and White comparisons.
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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#636 » by FarBeyondDriven » Sat Apr 19, 2025 7:06 am

EvanZ wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
lol that is some cope
Do you think White is better defensively? Black us a little higher in DBPM and White is a little higher in defensive EPM.

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I think you're making an excuse for someone else's comment. You changed the argument. Unless Black can shoot there simply is no comparison between him and Derrick White. So get back to me when that happens.


:roll: the poster clearly said he views his role as similar to White's with the Celtics, which is a reasonable take. He then said he could end up as good as White. Not that he is the same exact player but his impact would match what White provides? Do people really need to spell things out for everyone?
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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#637 » by EvanZ » Sat Apr 19, 2025 12:54 pm

FarBeyondDriven wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Do you think White is better defensively? Black us a little higher in DBPM and White is a little higher in defensive EPM.

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I think you're making an excuse for someone else's comment. You changed the argument. Unless Black can shoot there simply is no comparison between him and Derrick White. So get back to me when that happens.


:roll: the poster clearly said he views his role as similar to White's with the Celtics, which is a reasonable take. He then said he could end up as good as White. Not that he is the same exact player but his impact would match what White provides? Do people really need to spell things out for everyone?


Why are you coping so hard?
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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#638 » by Dat2U » Sat Apr 19, 2025 6:28 pm

Orlando already has their version of Derrick White ... Jalen Suggs. Anthony Black is just a lesser version of that and a duplication of skills that mucks up floor spacing whenever him, Suggs or KCP share the floor. I still don't think Black puts enough pressure on defenses to warrant being a starting PG.
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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#639 » by clyde21 » Sat Apr 19, 2025 7:08 pm

Suggs is an even worse shooter than Black without pure PG skills. He does pressure the rim harder though which is why he still sees plenty of mins but effectively speaking in a vacuum AB is a way better PG.

really there is just a congestion in Orlando, even their best player Banchero has his issues with spacing and lack of versatility. they need to make a couple of moves before they stagnate the development of all these guys. Even Jett Howard can't see the floor and he at least theoretically should be giving them spacing.
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Re: Anthony Black - Arkansas 

Post#640 » by eyriq » Sat Apr 19, 2025 10:25 pm

EvanZ wrote:I am not a fan of Black and White comparisons.


:lol:

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