Best Player during the "Lebron Era"

[celticfan42487]

2003-2007:Duncan
2008:Kobe or LBJ
2009 to 2020:LeBron in every year outside of 2011,maybe 2015 and 2019 when Dirk,Curry and Kawhi had a better year
2021:Jokic or Giannis
2022 to 2024:Jokic
2025:we will see,likely Jokic or SGA

Yup this is pretty much it.

Defense matters and LBJ until he stopped playing it always just had a far better complete game for 82 games + playoffs.

You can make some exceptions if you want for the years he choked before he learned to be clutch there as well but that would be kind of hand waving away about 90 other games he was clearly the best.

[Iwasawitness]

I never said LeBron topped every rival in every season; my point was simply that Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Tim Duncan, KD, Kawhi, and Giannis did not “clearly dominate” him when they faced off [as you claimed]—the win‑loss records and his box‑score production make that plain. Using ring totals as the litmus test ignores the team‑centric nature of titles: rosters, injuries, cap spikes, and plain luck all decide who lifts the trophy. Even Michael Jordan, widely considered the benchmark for greatness, collected six championships in 15 seasons—yet no one uses that figure to diminish his stature. LeBron’s four titles came while he dragged aging or thin lineups to ten Finals and ran into two Spurs dynasties and three different Warrior iterations—five of the best teams ever assembled. Take those gauntlets off the board and six or even eight rings isn’t far‑fetched. What really separates him is his longevity: thirteen straight seasons in the top tier of context‑adjusted metrics and an almost permanent spot in the Finals.

I dont disagree with most of your statements. LeBron has longevity going for him, as i wrote - he maintained a high level for many years, top 3-5 is a remarkable level. I simply dont think he was the ebst player for this entire time, which is what this topic is about.

I do not use season stats either to decide for myself who was the best player. See, LeBron "cruised" some years or at least it was used as an excuse by his fans when he didnt play hard in the regular season. The premise that season stats are sufficient to decide who the best player was in one individual season is arbitrary, not a law of nature. When i say they dominated him i refer to their decisive matchups in the playoffs. I do not refer to team success, he may have won in seasons he wasnt the better player.

Kawhi defended him. KD defended him. They basically beat him in their decisive games without help. Wether their TEAM also won or not isnt the question. He simply wasnt a better player than they were. Its more complex and fuzzy when comparing Dirk to him, or Steph, or Timmy. But i still think that for individual seasons, each of them topped LeBron. Doesnt take away from him, just adjusting the outworldly takes seen in this thread.

You’re confusing isolated moments with outright dominance; if a single series is the yardstick, LeBron has just as many dominating moments against each of them, sans Dirk, which exposes the flaw in your logic.

You’re putting way too much effort into someone who thinks the 2013 Heat are the most talented team of all time. You’re a few posts away from correcting him too much to the point where he puts you on ignore and pretends you’re a paid media shill. Just let it go.

[Lala870]

No Curry?

Dude changed the entire game of basketball.

He can thank andrew bogut for the uncontested 3's all day long

They are a packaged deal

[MavsDirk41]

09 to 18: LeBron.
07-08 and 20: also LeBron but closer.

I think 2020 was pretty clearly Giannis.

You can’t say LeBron was better than Kobe in 09 and 10 because he had better stats and worse teammates but then say LeBron was better than Giannis in 2020 when Giannis had better stats and worse teammates.

Maybe for 2010 but in 2009,LeBron had a all-time regular season and all-time playoffs run.Giannis struggle big time vs Miami in 2020

Just because Giannis had one bad playoff series doesnt mean he wasnt the best player in 2020. Look up his advanced stats for that season.

[Patches Perry]

LeBron from like 2008 to 2020, with exceptions in 2011 when he way underperformed in the finals, and 2019 when he was hurt.

LeBron in 2012-2018 is the best basketball player I've ever seen in my 3-4 decades of watching NBA basketball religiously.

[canada_dry]

2003-2010 kobe is CRAZY lol

Most of this is to be fair

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[scrabbarista]

2003 - 2010 = Kobe

2011 - 2015 = Lebron

2016 = Kawhi

2017 - 2018 = Harden or KD

2019 - 2021 = Giannis

2022 - present = Jokic

does this seem reasonable?

I can hear the arguments already about him being better than Kobe but Kobe was leading the league in scoring, making all-defense and winning championships during those years.

I can hear the argument already about Kawhi but Kawhi was without a doubt the best two-way player in the league and won DPOY while doing it all on offense.

after that there's zero argument for Lebron being the best player as his defense fell off a cliff and other guys rose to prominence.

So would you have any of it different? Which years, if any?

Definitely not reasonable.

I'm not going to go through it season by season, but roughly speaking, James was the best player from '09 -'18.

If you're just looking at the regular season, though, then 2014 was the last one, which I think is a legitimate criticism of James.

[MavsDirk41]

Well i meant i think his peak started in 2019 and yes he didnt have a great series again Miami in the second round but he put up 31/16/6 against Orlando in round one. Came back next year and won the championship. I think Giannis was the best player in the nba 19 - 21. Those were his dominant years and all the advanced metrics plus eye test would show it imo.

Yeah, if you go with aggregated period of time (2019-2021), then I definitely agree that Giannis was the best player in that period (Curry and Durant didn't play in 19/20 season, Kawhi choked in 2020 and got injured in 2021 playoffs, LeBron was injured in 2019 and 2021). I just don't think he was the best player in the single 19/20 season, considering LeBron still provided MVP-level impact in the regular season and had 28-11-9 on 64.7 TS%, 30.2 PER, 10.7 BPM playoffs. Giannis averaged 22-11-5 on 55TS% against Heat and got injured in the 1st half of G4. In simulation-like scenario, I don't think anyone would've chosen Giannis for that specific year, he literally got injured in the crucial series (not to mention he was 22PPG on 50TS% when Bucks went 0-3).

You can’t say LeBron was better than Kobe in 09 and 10 because he had better stats and worse teammates but then say LeBron was better than Giannis in 2020 when Giannis had better stats and worse teammates.

LeBron against Celtics 2008: 27-6-8-2, 48.0 TS%, 5.3 TOV (and amazing level of defense)
Bryant against Celtics 2008: 26-5-5-2, 50.5 TS%, 3.9 TOV

LeBron against Celtics 2010: 27-9-7-2-2, 55.6 TS%, 4.5 TOV
Bryant against Celtics 2010: 29-8-4-2-1, 52.8 TS%, 3.9 TOV

LeBron against Magic 2009: 39-8-8-1-1, 59.1 TS%, 4.2 TOV
Bryant against Magic 2009: 32-5-7-1-1, 52.5TS%, 3.2 TOV

LeBron against Heat 2020: 30-12-9-1, 67.1 TS%, 3,5 TOV
Giannis against Heat 2020: 22-11-5-1, 55.0 TS%, 2.8 TOV (missed half of game 4 and game 5)

These are just boxscore stats and I'm fine with someone having Kobe as the best player in 2010, but in general, that's the difference here, Bryant never outplayed LeBron against the same opponents in the playoffs production-wise (maybe Mavs 2011, but he still got swept with 23-3-3 on 52TS% series, so whatever). Even in 2008, Cavs were +21 with LeBron on a court against Boston (and -23 in 32 minutes without him) so he was actually very close to defeat much superior team talent-wise (close game 7).

You keep mentioning his playoff series against Miami in the second round but what about his play during the 60 plus regular season games and the first round against Orlando? I think Giannis was clearly the best nba player in 2019/2020.

[ForeverTFC]

You're giving way too many years to Kobe - Duncan gets the front-end of that and Lebron gets the back-end. Also, 2019 was very clearly Kawhi's year, not 2016.

Lebron owned a decade - starting in '08-'09 through 2018. 2019 was Kawhi, '20-21 was Giannis and then Jokic took over.

[Ainosterhaspie]

You're giving way too many years to Kobe - Duncan gets the front-end of that and Lebron gets the back-end. Also, 2019 was very clearly Kawhi's year, not 2016.

Kawhi was Mariano Rivera in 2019, not the best player.

[ForeverTFC]

You're giving way too many years to Kobe - Duncan gets the front-end of that and Lebron gets the back-end. Also, 2019 was very clearly Kawhi's year, not 2016.

Kawhi was Mariano Rivera in 2019, not the best player.

You definitely have a debate about 2019 though I - and I think many others - would disagree. Still, 2016 is clearly Lebron's, not Kawhi's.

[The Master]

You keep mentioning his playoff series against Miami in the second round but what about his play during the 60 plus regular season games and the first round against Orlando? I think Giannis was clearly the best nba player in 2019/2020.

Magic were 33-39 and -0.93 SRS team that year, it's irrelevant for this discussion how maliciously Giannis swept them (oh, it was 4-1)

And I'm not denying how great Giannis was in the regular season that year, nor how great he is overall as a player, my point is that he not only underperformed against the Heat, he also got injured in that series, so I don't think anyone would've chosen him to build his team for the playoffs that year post factum as the first choice. That's why I find this a bit 'academic' to argue he was the best player that year. But if you're very regular season-oriented in your evaluations, that's fine as long as you're consistent with your criteria. I don't agree with that, but we're talking sport, it's not like there's one approach to assess things.

[elchengue20]

I love Kobe but he has to be the most overrated player of all time.

Same type of overrating happens to Kyrie and Iverson.

I guess it happens when your game is pretty and you take a lot of shots. Being charismatic helps too.

[NO-KG-AI]

It seems like you found nuanced reasons year to year to pick people other than LeBron, but gave Kobe years where he was injured and not good, or flat out missed the playoffs and stuff. You gave Kobe best player for a 5 year stretch where he never finished above 3 in MVP, won 0 finals MVPs, and his own teammate took finals MVP, and won more titles during said stretch, Lol.

[ballzboyee]

Very clearly Kobe until 2010. Lebron arguably wasn't even the best player in Miami in 2011, but after that season we can clearly say Lebron indisputably became the best player in the league for the first time in his career. In terms of head-to-head, from 2004 to 2010 Kobe and Lebron were 5 and 8 with Kobe clearly being the far superior player in the playoffs. Lebron padded his overall head-to-head here against a post-injury Kobe who was very clearly past his prime in the 2010's era and suffered an obvious overall decline.

It is always difficult and problematic to place Lebron as the clear leader for the league's best player for a number of reasons. Lebron's do-it-all stat hacking looks good on a spreadsheet but has simply failed at getting his teams over the hump against elite teams in the playoffs, which is why his runs always fell short when facing off against a team with an alpha scoring specialist like Durant, Curry, and Dirk. The only way Lebron's redundant stat hacking style has ever worked is when he has a "sidekick" that could also be play the role of alpha scorer like Wade, AD, Kyrie, and now Luka, so it's difficult to say how much credit Lebron has really deserved over the years for his team's success. Bunny assists and uncontested rebounds are the cheese puffs of counting stats and don't move the needle at all for winning when it counts against true elite and balanced teams. Of course, people always predictably attempt to prop up Lebron's level by citing irrelevant numbers like his uncanny ability to pull down uncontested defensive rebounds, as if this somehow makes him the better player when in fact these type of meaningless usage stats are ironically why his teams have failed time and time again. His style of anti-team ball turns teammates into passive ball watchers without truly established roles. You can actually build an offense around alpha scorers like Curry, Kobe, etc., or around at traditional big like Duncan because their pure scoring specialization and skill sets allows everybody else to step up and play to their own strengths. You never see Duncan, Kobe, or Curry fighting his own teammates for defensive rebounds so they can bring ball up the court. This is not winning basketball. It's a waste of time because no matter how good he is at those things, he's not a specialist.

Duncan has never been the best player in the league imho. Just a super consistent top 2 or 3 guy who has been surrounded by elite talent and HOF coaching. Even when he fell out of the top 5 and maybe even the top 10 his team was like a well oiled machine and well coached enough to carry him to a championship.


Lebron's era as best player officially ended after he left Cleveland and teamed up with AD. Since then he's never been the best player on his own team let alone the best player in the league. I think a strong case can be made that Curry, Harden, Kawhi, Durant, etc. at different times surpassed Lebron's level and were interchangeably the "best player" in the league during different windows and peak rs and playoff runs. Again, Lebron gets greatly penalized because his problematic style of ball is simply poor for playoff basketball sans when his loaded Miami and Cleveland teams are mowing down lousy Eastern Conference also-rans in the 2010's.

[fanofthegreats]

Very clearly Kobe until 2010. Lebron arguably wasn't even the best player in Miami in 2011, but after that season we can clearly say Lebron indisputably became the best player in the league for the first time in his career. In terms of head-to-head, from 2004 to 2010 Kobe and Lebron were 5 and 8 with Kobe clearly being the far superior player in the playoffs. Lebron padded his overall head-to-head here against a post-injury Kobe who was very clearly past his prime in the 2010's era and suffered an obvious overall decline.

It is always difficult and problematic to place Lebron as the clear leader for the league's best player for a number of reasons. Lebron's do-it-all stat hacking looks good on a spreadsheet but has simply failed at getting his teams over the hump against elite teams in the playoffs, which is why his runs always fell short when facing off against a team with an alpha scoring specialist like Durant, Curry, and Dirk. The only way Lebron's redundant stat hacking style has ever worked is when he has a "sidekick" that could also be play the role of alpha scorer like Wade, AD, Kyrie, and now Luka, so it's difficult to say how much credit Lebron has really deserved over the years for his team's success. Bunny assists and uncontested rebounds are the cheese puffs of counting stats and don't move the needle at all for winning when it counts against true elite and balanced teams. Of course, people always predictably attempt to prop up Lebron's level by citing irrelevant numbers like his uncanny ability to pull down uncontested defensive rebounds, as if this somehow makes him the better player when in fact these type of meaningless usage stats are ironically why his teams have failed time and time again. His style of anti-team ball turns teammates into passive ball watchers without truly established roles. You can actually build an offense around alpha scorers like Curry, Kobe, etc., or around at traditional big like Duncan because their pure scoring specialization and skill sets allows everybody else to step up and play to their own strengths. You never see Duncan, Kobe, or Curry fighting his own teammates for defensive rebounds so they can bring ball up the court. This is not winning basketball. It's a waste of time because no matter how good he is at those things, he's not a specialist.

Duncan has never been the best player in the league imho. Just a super consistent top 2 or 3 guy who has been surrounded by elite talent and HOF coaching. Even when he fell out of the top 5 and maybe even the top 10 his team was like a well oiled machine and well coached enough to carry him to a championship.


Lebron's era as best player officially ended after he left Cleveland and teamed up with AD. Since then he's never been the best player on his own team let alone the best player in the league. I think a strong case can be made that Curry, Harden, Kawhi, Durant, etc. at different times surpassed Lebron's level and were interchangeably the "best player" in the league during different windows and peak rs and playoff runs. Again, Lebron gets greatly penalized because his problematic style of ball is simply poor for playoff basketball sans when his loaded Miami and Cleveland teams are mowing down lousy Eastern Conference also-rans in the 2010's.

Nothing “very clearly” about Kobe being the best player in the league until 2010. Kobe might have been the best player in the league from about 2006-2008, but that’s about it.

[MavsDirk41]

You keep mentioning his playoff series against Miami in the second round but what about his play during the 60 plus regular season games and the first round against Orlando? I think Giannis was clearly the best nba player in 2019/2020.

Magic were 33-39 and -0.93 SRS team that year, it's irrelevant for this discussion how maliciously Giannis swept them (oh, it was 4-1)

And I'm not denying how great Giannis was in the regular season that year, nor how great he is overall as a player, my point is that he not only underperformed against the Heat, he also got injured in that series, so I don't think anyone would've chosen him to build his team for the playoffs that year post factum as the first choice. That's why I find this a bit 'academic' to argue he was the best player that year. But if you're very regular season-oriented in your evaluations, that's fine as long as you're consistent with your criteria. I don't agree with that, but we're talking sport, it's not like there's one approach to assess things.

Yea fair enough i get what your saying but he was so dominate during the regular season and first round that i dont think playing subpar for a five game series will change my mind about him being the best player that year. Especially the way he came back the next season.

[NZB2323]

I think 2020 was pretty clearly Giannis.

You can’t say LeBron was better than Kobe in 09 and 10 because he had better stats and worse teammates but then say LeBron was better than Giannis in 2020 when Giannis had better stats and worse teammates.

Maybe for 2010 but in 2009,LeBron had a all-time regular season and all-time playoffs run.Giannis struggle big time vs Miami in 2020

Just because Giannis had one bad playoff series doesnt mean he wasnt the best player in 2020. Look up his advanced stats for that season.

Yeah, by that logic LeBron wasn’t the best in 2011.

[MavsDirk41]

Maybe for 2010 but in 2009,LeBron had a all-time regular season and all-time playoffs run.Giannis struggle big time vs Miami in 2020

Just because Giannis had one bad playoff series doesnt mean he wasnt the best player in 2020. Look up his advanced stats for that season.

Yeah, by that logic LeBron wasn’t the best in 2011.

Yep exactly.

[bbms]

duncan 03-07
kobe 08
lebron 09-13
curry 14-15
lebron 16-19
giannis 20-21
jokic 22-now