2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 5

[ciueli]

The concern is him being raw, the clip shows he is raw, and that means all the talks are theoretical.

Been over this too, every player in the draft is theoretical except Cooper Flagg. So what? Do we just trade every draft pick we ever get for established players?

That is not true, there are things that can be translate, instead of just showing "potential".
Shooting (not just stats) can be translated, footwork can be translated. Players like Fears, Queens, they are not theoretical, they already have an offensive skill to play at a position.

Because a PG who can't shoot and turns the ball over like crazy and a C who can't protect the paint or shoot could never bust in the NBA... right?

[Indeed]

Been over this too, every player in the draft is theoretical except Cooper Flagg. So what? Do we just trade every draft pick we ever get for established players?

That is not true, there are things that can be translate, instead of just showing "potential".
Shooting (not just stats) can be translated, footwork can be translated. Players like Fears, Queens, they are not theoretical, they already have an offensive skill to play at a position.

Because a PG who can't shoot and turns the ball over like crazy and a C who can't protect the paint or shoot could never bust in the NBA... right?

So they should be 2nd round picks? What makes them in the top is due to what they already shown. Maluach has not shown he can do the minimum yet.

[Raptaurus]

I’m just not sure how anyone can watch the playoffs today and look at our roster and think, yeah. We need to add more static offensive players.

We need dynamic offensive players. Players who don’t need to be spoon fed. We need shot creators, paint touches with a live dribble and players who can actually dribble in traffic.

Every single player on our roster outside of Ingram are secondary or tertiary creators. That’s simply just not good enough in 2025.

This. Even if we dont jump up to select either of Flagg, Harper, Bailey, or Edgecomb, risking it on a guy on a very raw and one dimensional Maluach seems like a big let down. I get we need center depth but we can’t we just trade one of the glut of guards/SFs that we already have to fill that need?

[Los_29]

And the teams who have more dynamic players in their rotation all won their games. Your point is?

My point is you are wrong. Not all the teams with more dynamic offensive players won.

Knicks have more dynamic players than the Pistons.

Minny has more dynamic players on their roster compared to the Lakers.

Pacers clearly have more dynamic players.

It’s really just potentially Denver Nuggets who have a less dynamic roster than the Clippers.

Why do the Wolves have more dynamic offensive players? Lakers have the 2nd best player of all-time and the 2nd most dynamic offensive player in the league. Reaves is also a 20ppg guy with good playmaking.

Other than Ant, who is more dynamic? Gobert who can’t dribble? 3+D McDaniels?

Two teams with more dynamic offensive players won. Two team with less dynamic offensive players lost. That’s the reality. Nothing there to draw any conclusions from yesterday’s games.

[Clutch0z24]

I’m just not sure how anyone can watch the playoffs today and look at our roster and think, yeah. We need to add more static offensive players.

We need dynamic offensive players. Players who don’t need to be spoon fed. We need shot creators, paint touches with a live dribble and players who can actually dribble in traffic.

Every single player on our roster outside of Ingram are secondary or tertiary creators. That’s simply just not good enough in 2025.

This. Even if we dont jump up to select either of Flagg, Harper, Bailey, or Edgecomb, risking it on a guy on a very raw and one dimensional Maluach seems like a big let down. I get we need center depth but we can’t we just trade one of the glut of guards/SFs that we already have to fill that need?

Yep if you draft Maluach your basically drafting a role player who has 0 percent chance to become a star for you....And with a high draft pick in a good draft i think thats not good value pick at 7....Because one of the players that is drafted around our spot will be a star.....And i would put money its not Maluach because a rim running big man is never the star on your team....With a top pick you go BPA not best project of the draft.....We have enough of these projects on the roster already...

What are the chances Maluach becomes as good as Myles Turner, Evan Mobley, Chet, Embiid. Prolly not that high due to his offensive limitations....If Maluach at Duke showed more of an offensive game its a no brainer pick....But hes very limited to just Dunks and idk if that changes much in the NBA.

All that being said there is a good chance he is our pick because i could see us moving down to 8th and all the players Masai likes ahead of Maluach being taken so i could see him just grabbing Maluach to fill a need on the roster. But i still think it will end up being a meh draft pick....He will help the team since he does things we do need but it won't be that big of an impact that you would want out of a high lotto pick....And our roster is not good enough to be drafting on needs...We need more go to players and Maluach will never be a go to player.

[grant101]

Any Hansen Yang believers still out there? If we don’t go center with our first pick, I’d be down with a swing on him with our second (assuming Broome continues to rise up draft boards, and Markovic is unavailable). He’s trimmed down a lot and you just don’t get that many players with his level of skill/iq at that size. He’s got so much potential

[DreamTeam09]

I’m just not sure how anyone can watch the playoffs today and look at our roster and think, yeah. We need to add more static offensive players.

We need dynamic offensive players. Players who don’t need to be spoon fed. We need shot creators, paint touches with a live dribble and players who can actually dribble in traffic.

Every single player on our roster outside of Ingram are secondary or tertiary creators. That’s simply just not good enough in 2025.

This. Even if we dont jump up to select either of Flagg, Harper, Bailey, or Edgecomb, risking it on a guy on a very raw and one dimensional Maluach seems like a big let down. I get we need center depth but we can’t we just trade one of the glut of guards/SFs that we already have to fill that need?

A 7'2 mobile C is going to make our TEAM more dynamic as a whole. That's some of y'all issue thinking one player is going to take us to the promise land as if it won't be a collective effort to get there. Even when kwahi was carrying us OUR team was deep & put him in a position to succeed

[Clutch0z24]

My point is you are wrong. Not all the teams with more dynamic offensive players won.

Knicks have more dynamic players than the Pistons.

Minny has more dynamic players on their roster compared to the Lakers.

Pacers clearly have more dynamic players.

It’s really just potentially Denver Nuggets who have a less dynamic roster than the Clippers.

Why do the Wolves have more dynamic offensive players? Lakers have the 2nd best player of all-time and the 2nd most dynamic offensive player in the league. Reaves is also a 20ppg guy with good playmaking.

Other than Ant, who is more dynamic? Gobert who can’t dribble? 3+D McDaniels?

Two teams with more dynamic offensive players won. Two team with less dynamic offensive players lost. That’s the reality. Nothing there to draw any conclusions from yesterday’s games.

Series is not over its one game....But all this talk about who has more dynamic scorers does not matter....Because each team has one and some teams have multiple....Timberwolves have Ant man who is one of the best Dynamic players in the NBA....Thats the difference.....They also have an abundance of secondary scorers and multiple guys who are capable of getting you 20+ a night ....

Problem with our roster you do not have many of these guys....Barnes is not there yet....Ingram maybe our only one but hes injury prone and has not won in the NBA much so hes not proven....Every team needs Dynamic Scorers and drafting a Player like Maluach with a high lotto pick when there are potentially Dynamic players still on the board means you are settling with a role player....Maluach will never be a player you can give the ball to in the playoffs and hes going to create things for himself or others....He will be the opposite where if you do not have a certain type of play maker for him to run with he becomes damn near useless on the offensive end. Especially in a Playoff setting...

[Clutch0z24]

I’m just not sure how anyone can watch the playoffs today and look at our roster and think, yeah. We need to add more static offensive players.

We need dynamic offensive players. Players who don’t need to be spoon fed. We need shot creators, paint touches with a live dribble and players who can actually dribble in traffic.

Every single player on our roster outside of Ingram are secondary or tertiary creators. That’s simply just not good enough in 2025.

This. Even if we dont jump up to select either of Flagg, Harper, Bailey, or Edgecomb, risking it on a guy on a very raw and one dimensional Maluach seems like a big let down. I get we need center depth but we can’t we just trade one of the glut of guards/SFs that we already have to fill that need?

A 7'2 mobile C is going to make our TEAM more dynamic as a whole. That's some of y'all issue thinking one player is going to take us to the promise land as if it won't be a collective effort to get there. Even when kwahi was carrying us OUR team was deep & put him in a position to succeed

Yeah but you do not use your high end lotto pick on that player when you can find these kind of players in the 2nd round or in a trade or a late first rounder.....With a high end lotto pick you try and find them dynamic go to players because they are the most important kind of player.....

Raw big men with high lotto picks fail 90 percent of the time than succeed....One of these players in the 7th area of the draft will become a star and it won't be Maluach because hes so limited as a player.

[ciueli]

That is not true, there are things that can be translate, instead of just showing "potential".
Shooting (not just stats) can be translated, footwork can be translated. Players like Fears, Queens, they are not theoretical, they already have an offensive skill to play at a position.

Because a PG who can't shoot and turns the ball over like crazy and a C who can't protect the paint or shoot could never bust in the NBA... right?

So they should be 2nd round picks? What makes them in the top is due to what they already shown. Maluach has not shown he can do the minimum yet.

Every mock I've seen has Maluach as a top 10 pick, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Some mocks have him above Queen and Fears too, I don't get where this hate is coming from. I'd rather get a player with size and defence in this draft than a PG who will spend the next 2 years in the G-League (Fears) or a C who people are talking about being lazy on defence and out of shape.

[Los_29]

Knicks have more dynamic players than the Pistons.

Minny has more dynamic players on their roster compared to the Lakers.

Pacers clearly have more dynamic players.

It’s really just potentially Denver Nuggets who have a less dynamic roster than the Clippers.

Why do the Wolves have more dynamic offensive players? Lakers have the 2nd best player of all-time and the 2nd most dynamic offensive player in the league. Reaves is also a 20ppg guy with good playmaking.

Other than Ant, who is more dynamic? Gobert who can’t dribble? 3+D McDaniels?

Two teams with more dynamic offensive players won. Two team with less dynamic offensive players lost. That’s the reality. Nothing there to draw any conclusions from yesterday’s games.

Series is not over its one game....But all this talk about who has more dynamic scorers does not matter....Because each team has one and some teams have multiple....Timberwolves have Ant man who is one of the best Dynamic players in the NBA....Thats the difference.....They also have an abundance of secondary scorers and multiple guys who are capable of getting you 20+ a night ....

Problem with our roster you do not have many of these guys....Barnes is not there yet....Ingram maybe our only one but hes injury prone and has not won in the NBA much so hes not proven....Every team needs Dynamic Scorers and drafting a Player like Maluach with a high lotto pick when there are potentially Dynamic players still on the board means you are settling with a role player....Maluach will never be a player you can give the ball to in the playoffs and hes going to create things for himself or others....He will be the opposite where if you do not have a certain type of play maker for him to run with he becomes damn near useless on the offensive end. Especially in a Playoff setting...

Naz, Jaden, Gobert and Donte are all 11-13ppg guys. That’s quite a reach thinking they are all capable of getting you 20+ a night. Couldn’t you say that about any team?

Ant is an excellent player. Luka is too. These dynamic players are very hard to find. Luka’s teammate is still one of the better players in the league and yet he’s 40. These kinds of players are very hard to find.

Lively was drafted 12th. Cason was drafted 10th. These are defensive-minded, offensively limited players but they are certainly better than the players drafted after them. Would you have rather drafted Kobe Bufkin or Cam Whitmore instead?

[BoyzNTheHood]

Any Hansen Yang believers still out there? If we don’t go center with our first pick, I’d be down with a swing on him with our second (assuming Broome continues to rise up draft boards, and Markovic is unavailable). He’s trimmed down a lot and you just don’t get that many players with his level of skill/iq at that size. He’s got so much potential

Second round picks being used on guys like Yang are exactly what I love. Take a shot in the dark and see if you hit anything. Obviously, this is a huge anomaly but Denver did that with Jokic and it worked out. You also have countless other examples of second round success stories whether it’s Marc Gasol, Monta Ellis, Ivica Zubac, or Lou Williams, and so on.

[Clutch0z24]

Because a PG who can't shoot and turns the ball over like crazy and a C who can't protect the paint or shoot could never bust in the NBA... right?

So they should be 2nd round picks? What makes them in the top is due to what they already shown. Maluach has not shown he can do the minimum yet.

Every mock I've seen has Maluach as a top 10 pick, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Some mocks have him above Queen and Fears too, I don't get where this hate is coming from. I'd rather get a player with size and defence in this draft than a PG who will spend the next 2 years in the G-League (Fears) or a C who people are talking about being lazy on defence and out of shape.

Its not hating its just saying what it is.....I don't hate Maluach ....I think hes actually going to be a decent player.....He will be a good backup C imo...Nothing more....I just think the posters that are pointing out things about Maluach are things that are in reality....And the ones who like Maluach are saying "He can become this" Rather than "He is this" Because lets be real....Malauach is a project....I seen many high ranked draft analysts say this....And my eyes when i watch him says this.....Hes not ready offensively for the NBA....

Its not hate its just reality....There will be players OTB at 7 potentially that have NBA ready offense as soon as they come into the league....Maluach would need 3+ years to get to the level of a Queen for example (And i doubt he even gets there offensivly)....And thats a big IF because Queen already shown he can do it all year in college....

Raw big men in the top of the draft are always going to be a big gamble and majority of the time the gamble is a losing one.

[ItsDanger]

If you don't have players that can break a defense down then your offense will struggle against a defense that can play straight up. You'd think watching Raptors ball recently would show you what that looks like. Playoffs come down to half court execution.

[Clutch0z24]

Why do the Wolves have more dynamic offensive players? Lakers have the 2nd best player of all-time and the 2nd most dynamic offensive player in the league. Reaves is also a 20ppg guy with good playmaking.

Other than Ant, who is more dynamic? Gobert who can’t dribble? 3+D McDaniels?

Two teams with more dynamic offensive players won. Two team with less dynamic offensive players lost. That’s the reality. Nothing there to draw any conclusions from yesterday’s games.

Series is not over its one game....But all this talk about who has more dynamic scorers does not matter....Because each team has one and some teams have multiple....Timberwolves have Ant man who is one of the best Dynamic players in the NBA....Thats the difference.....They also have an abundance of secondary scorers and multiple guys who are capable of getting you 20+ a night ....

Problem with our roster you do not have many of these guys....Barnes is not there yet....Ingram maybe our only one but hes injury prone and has not won in the NBA much so hes not proven....Every team needs Dynamic Scorers and drafting a Player like Maluach with a high lotto pick when there are potentially Dynamic players still on the board means you are settling with a role player....Maluach will never be a player you can give the ball to in the playoffs and hes going to create things for himself or others....He will be the opposite where if you do not have a certain type of play maker for him to run with he becomes damn near useless on the offensive end. Especially in a Playoff setting...

Naz, Jaden, Gobert and Donte are all 11-13ppg guys. That’s quite a reach thinking they are all capable of getting you 20+ a night. Couldn’t you say that about any team?

Ant is an excellent player. Luka is too. These dynamic players are very hard to find. Luka’s teammate is still one of the better players in the league and yet he’s 40. These kinds of players are very hard to find.

Lively was drafted 12th. Cason was drafted 10th. These are defensive-minded, offensively limited players but they are certainly better than the players drafted after them. Would you have rather drafted Kobe Bufkin or Cam Whitmore instead?

Ant Man is the whole entire reason the Timberwolves are where they are and a playoff team without him that team is useless.....But they still have guys on the team who can get you 20+ on any given night to help Ant man out....They have a good team built around their Dynamic player which is why they are successful and beat a team with Luka/LeBron on it game 1.....Its just dumb arguments being made because majority of the winning teams in the playoffs have these kind of Dynamic guys (Ant man, Shai, Luka, Kawhi, Harden, Tatum, Mitchell Etc) .....We have who? Ingram? ...

Point is you do not use your high end draft pick trying to fill a role on the team you draft BPA ....Is Maluach BPA prolly not....Hes best project available.....There will def be a Dynamic player picked below Maluach if he gets picked as high as 7 ...Maluach has zero percent chance to being a Dynamic player....A player like Queen, Fears, Tre....Thy at least have a chance....Id take my gamble on the better offensive players than a guy who can only catch lob dunks on offense for you.

[Son Goku 25]

How do we know he is looking like a functional NBA centre with his low block rate and low passing rate?

I already answered this. Duke had him aggressively contesting guards out on the perimeter, hard to rack up blocks when he’s not close to the basket. He didn’t have the luxury of someone like Zach Edey playing drop coverage every possession and staying in the paint due to his lack of mobility. With respect to passing, that’s just not how he was used in Duke’s system. Look at Jak’s freshman season and it’s the same story, their college numbers are very similar per minute.

You seriously watched the games? I think you only watched highlights
Look at the blowbys, and ended up with drop coverage? How do you call that "guards out on the perimeter"?

Watch on YouTube

Just from these clips he gets blocked so easily (esp at his height) i honestly hate those kind of bigs that dont know how to use their body and create space or be physical, he's gotta learn how to keep the ball up high which is something that can be learned.

[Indeed]

Because a PG who can't shoot and turns the ball over like crazy and a C who can't protect the paint or shoot could never bust in the NBA... right?

So they should be 2nd round picks? What makes them in the top is due to what they already shown. Maluach has not shown he can do the minimum yet.

Every mock I've seen has Maluach as a top 10 pick, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Some mocks have him above Queen and Fears too, I don't get where this hate is coming from. I'd rather get a player with size and defence in this draft than a PG who will spend the next 2 years in the G-League (Fears) or a C who people are talking about being lazy on defence and out of shape.

There is no hate, but he has not shown enough that tells us he will reach what people are saying.
And did you even read other posts, here is an example how people see his issue (eg. positioning, setting hard pick, etc.)

By developing Jumper are we talking about in practice? Cause i have not seen it on the court....Its not like Queen who is a very high level mid range shooter and can score with using jump shots from areas all over the court.....I don't think i seen a mid range shot from Maluach in all the film i watched at Duke....I seen a jump hook from 2 feet away from the basket and lob dunks...

And reason i think You compare Maluach and Lively is because they are in the same style of player....Both are elevated by the players around them....Would you agree Lively is a way better player with a player like Luka setting him up?...Ofc he is...Maluach will never be a player who can be a good player by generating his own buckets, He will never be a guy you can give it to in the post who could attract double teams and make the right pass.....

Defensive lob threats are def valuable players and needed on teams but imo you could get a better player with a high end draft pick especially if more skilled players are OTB still...Id rather trade, or draft late firsts or 2nd rounders for that kinda big than pick one with a high end lottery pick ...With high picks i always shy away from a raw big man...Since in NBA history its high chance they are not as good as where they were picked...

Drafting Maluach at #7 would be like Donovan Clingan (but better FT shooting) being drafted #7. Clingan is taking some 3pt shots but shooting 28.6%. He's a positive player but not good value at #7. I for sure rather draft Ware later.

I wouldn't conflat Maluach from Clingan just because of draft range. Maluach is nowhere near Clingan as a drop big who can change how others attack the paint. Mal has a long way to go. He jumps at everything and is not in the right spots to contest a lot but recovering late in college is more forgiving than the NBA.

You are putting in a lotto ticket with this one similar to Joan Beringer. Not sure I am high on either guy but can see the long term bet and you have to believe your development system can work.

[Indeed]

I already answered this. Duke had him aggressively contesting guards out on the perimeter, hard to rack up blocks when he’s not close to the basket. He didn’t have the luxury of someone like Zach Edey playing drop coverage every possession and staying in the paint due to his lack of mobility. With respect to passing, that’s just not how he was used in Duke’s system. Look at Jak’s freshman season and it’s the same story, their college numbers are very similar per minute.

You seriously watched the games? I think you only watched highlights
Look at the blowbys, and ended up with drop coverage? How do you call that "guards out on the perimeter"?

Watch on YouTube

Just from these clips he gets blocked so easily (esp at his height) i honestly hate those kind of bigs that dont know how to use their body and create space or be physical, he's gotta learn how to keep the ball up high which is something that can be learned.

That has been the problem in people claiming players will learn, and perhaps in no time.
However, our previous drafted players who have not even played much meaningful minutes (eg. Koloko).

The reason at this point we need a high draft pick is in need of a self creation player. We talked about it every year that we have enough role players with mid 1st. Yet, this draft we prefer to get a high end role player over anyone who can create, and assume they can get to that level. If that is true, we don't need to pray for a high draft pick and have the tank thread.

My preference is draft a self creation player at rookie contract, this has been what we discussed over the last few years, and our chance to do it.

[Indeed]

Any Hansen Yang believers still out there? If we don’t go center with our first pick, I’d be down with a swing on him with our second (assuming Broome continues to rise up draft boards, and Markovic is unavailable). He’s trimmed down a lot and you just don’t get that many players with his level of skill/iq at that size. He’s got so much potential

Second round picks being used on guys like Yang are exactly what I love. Take a shot in the dark and see if you hit anything. Obviously, this is a huge anomaly but Denver did that with Jokic and it worked out. You also have countless other examples of second round success stories whether it’s Marc Gasol, Monta Ellis, Ivica Zubac, or Lou Williams, and so on.

We have more options, and depends if we prefer NBA athlete, instead of a freshman.

We might use our 2nd round pick for a senior who showed enough skills and with much better athleticism. Our success has been looking for these players who reads the game well and developed enough skills. Such as Kalkbrenner being defensive player of the year (Shead was last year) maybe considered by us.

[Psubs]

Series is not over its one game....But all this talk about who has more dynamic scorers does not matter....Because each team has one and some teams have multiple....Timberwolves have Ant man who is one of the best Dynamic players in the NBA....Thats the difference.....They also have an abundance of secondary scorers and multiple guys who are capable of getting you 20+ a night ....

Problem with our roster you do not have many of these guys....Barnes is not there yet....Ingram maybe our only one but hes injury prone and has not won in the NBA much so hes not proven....Every team needs Dynamic Scorers and drafting a Player like Maluach with a high lotto pick when there are potentially Dynamic players still on the board means you are settling with a role player....Maluach will never be a player you can give the ball to in the playoffs and hes going to create things for himself or others....He will be the opposite where if you do not have a certain type of play maker for him to run with he becomes damn near useless on the offensive end. Especially in a Playoff setting...

Naz, Jaden, Gobert and Donte are all 11-13ppg guys. That’s quite a reach thinking they are all capable of getting you 20+ a night. Couldn’t you say that about any team?

Ant is an excellent player. Luka is too. These dynamic players are very hard to find. Luka’s teammate is still one of the better players in the league and yet he’s 40. These kinds of players are very hard to find.

Lively was drafted 12th. Cason was drafted 10th. These are defensive-minded, offensively limited players but they are certainly better than the players drafted after them. Would you have rather drafted Kobe Bufkin or Cam Whitmore instead?

Ant Man is the whole entire reason the Timberwolves are where they are and a playoff team without him that team is useless.....But they still have guys on the team who can get you 20+ on any given night to help Ant man out....They have a good team built around their Dynamic player which is why they are successful and beat a team with Luka/LeBron on it game 1.....Its just dumb arguments being made because majority of the winning teams in the playoffs have these kind of Dynamic guys (Ant man, Shai, Luka, Kawhi, Harden, Tatum, Mitchell Etc) .....We have who? Ingram? ...

Point is you do not use your high end draft pick trying to fill a role on the team you draft BPA ....Is Maluach BPA prolly not....Hes best project available.....There will def be a Dynamic player picked below Maluach if he gets picked as high as 7 ...Maluach has zero percent chance to being a Dynamic player....A player like Queen, Fears, Tre....Thy at least have a chance....Id take my gamble on the better offensive players than a guy who can only catch lob dunks on offense for you.

I dunno if people can remember when Vince Carter was at UNC with Antawn Jamison and was ousted in the tournament. VC was just a dunker and slasher, with some handles. A better prospect than say Derozan though. Jamison had a steady and great career too. I view Carter Bryant like that same prospect as VC that didn't show all that he could do in college.

When you see his HS stuff he looks better than Ron Holland with more guard skills. Maybe he's a taller Stephon Castle?

Watch on YouTube