Homeland security needs to detain FVV and Jalen Green

[Wingy]

This is year 4 and he's barely improved.

What I tried to say is, he's super young in his first ever playoff game. I didn't watch so I don't know how bad it was.

His per 36 stats strongly resemble Jordan Clarkson's. He doesn't play good defense. I wouldn't want him anywhere near my team.

I’ve seen past comps to Lavine, who I think actually gets too much flack, but who has obvious limitations.

A “regular” all star level talent, but would need to be paired with a perennial MVP-level star (ie- Joker, Giannis, SGA) to have a real shot. A player that just doesn’t have the decision-making, or ability to process (things go too fast for him, and/or too little recognition). Not dumb, not a bum, works hard, good teammate. Simply lacks those necessary abilities to be next level(s).

Too early to tell if that’s Green too, but it’s possible. Youth doesn’t mask everything forever.

Kid needs an in between game. Example of…yes a lot of today’s players are more skilled at some things (primarily distance shooting, and advanced handle), but sorely lacking in others.

[cupcakesnake]

Fvv really shot a step back heat check 3 after making one 3 and being 1-10 from 3s

Shameless

A shooter has to keep shooting.
Houston is pretty starved for perimeter scoring. FVV is going to take every 3 he can.
A problem for Houston is that Fred is certified streaky.

[Jadoogar]

Free Reed Sheppard

Why the hell did he not play Reed when they were both stinking it up so much?

no coach is going to put in a rookie that barely played in the middle of a playoff game.
This is the deal with FVV, he's steady and provides veteran leadership but he's wildly inefficient, especially against long defenders. I still have nightmares about the 2019 series against the sixers.

Jalen Green has always been this type of player.

[Jadoogar]

FVV, yes. Green, is just, too green, there’s hope for him.


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Is there? we have seen this player archetype over and over. He's just streaky. He'll have hot stretches where he looks awesome (usually in March when teams stop trying) but he seems like one of those up and down players.

[Los_29]

That FVV contract was always a headscratcher to me.

It’s worked out beautifully. He’s been a big part of their turnaround. Before he got there, they were a lottery team. They weren’t going to sign anyone and it wasn’t a long-term deal.

He won’t get that money again but he will be in demand. Coaches love him.

[cupcakesnake]

What I tried to say is, he's super young in his first ever playoff game. I didn't watch so I don't know how bad it was.

His per 36 stats strongly resemble Jordan Clarkson's. He doesn't play good defense. I wouldn't want him anywhere near my team.

I’ve seen past comps to Lavine, who I think actually gets too much flack, but who has obvious limitations.

A “regular” all star level talent, but would need to be paired with a perennial MVP-level star (ie- Joker, Giannis, SGA) to have a real shot. A player that just doesn’t have the decision-making, or ability to process (things go too fast for him, and/or too little recognition). Not dumb, not a bum, works hard, good teammate. Simply lacks those necessary abilities to be next level(s).

Too early to tell if that’s Green too, but it’s possible. Youth doesn’t mask everything forever.

Kid needs an in between game. Example of…yes a lot of today’s players are more skilled at some things (primarily distance shooting, and advanced handle), but sorely lacking in others.

We really overrate these scorers who do nothing but score. Especially when they aren't absolutely elite at scoring. The thing that sucked about Jalen Green last night (and we saw this with Demar Derozan in Toronto for years) is that when his scoring gets neutralized by a good playoff defense, he's out there doing less than nothing. For 30 minutes last night, the Rockets were saddled with their weakest defender and most chaotic decision maker. The only success the Rockets had last night was by being big and brutal, and Jalen Green took away from their ability to do that without giving them anything in return. To be fair, he had a solid night on the boards. I just found myself thinking they'd probably score more with Eason (he'd get a couple more stops and steals), or Jabari (size), or obviously Adams (their second best player last night).

[Scalabrine]

That FVV contract was always a headscratcher to me.

They were 41-18 in games he played in this season. Thats a 57 win pace. They were 11-12 in the game's he was hurt.

It shouldn't be a head scratcher at all. He's a culture changer and a locker room leader and the proofs in the pudding how much of a difference he makes. Additionally, the Rockets had to spend that money somewhere and it was very clear that they needed both a hard working veteran to help lead the young guys AND a point guard. He checks both boxes. If the Rockets had to do it again, I imagine they would do it 10/10.

[3ddman23]

Jalen Green is still super young; he'll figure it out.

This is year 4 and he's barely improved.

What I tried to say is, he's super young in his first ever playoff game. I didn't watch so I don't know how bad it was.

Paolo was really young last playoffs and arguably had one of the best first round performances (also had a huge game 1 yesterday)at 21 years old...some guys have it and some don't. Green is a bone head and people have been saying it since his rookie season. I think we know what he is right now... In the mold of lavine, herro, booker, beal,etc. these guys don't win serious stuff as your main guy...

[Scalabrine]

This is year 4 and he's barely improved.

What I tried to say is, he's super young in his first ever playoff game. I didn't watch so I don't know how bad it was.

Paolo was really young last playoffs and arguably had one of the best first round performances at 21 years old...some guys have it and some don't. Green is a bone head and people have been saying it since his rookie season. I think we know what he is right now... In the mold of lavine, herro, booker, beal,etc. these guys don't win serious stuff as your main guy...

But he's not the main guy. He's at best their Number 2 and in terms of future he's their Number 3.

[3ddman23]

What I tried to say is, he's super young in his first ever playoff game. I didn't watch so I don't know how bad it was.

Paolo was really young last playoffs and arguably had one of the best first round performances at 21 years old...some guys have it and some don't. Green is a bone head and people have been saying it since his rookie season. I think we know what he is right now... In the mold of lavine, herro, booker, beal,etc. these guys don't win serious stuff as your main guy...

But he's not the main guy. He's at best their Number 2 and in terms of future he's their Number 3.

How is he not there main guy?? Ok maybe sengun is but he is absolutely the #2 currently behind him. The ball is going to him to produce offensively on many possessions... I mean we saw the game last night didn't we?

[TheGeneral99]

FVV is offensively limited but very important to this team.

They are 41-19 with FVV in the lineup and 11-11 without him, he has the second highest RPM on the team after Sengun.

That being said, abysmal offensive performance last night.

[Scalabrine]

Paolo was really young last playoffs and arguably had one of the best first round performances at 21 years old...some guys have it and some don't. Green is a bone head and people have been saying it since his rookie season. I think we know what he is right now... In the mold of lavine, herro, booker, beal,etc. these guys don't win serious stuff as your main guy...

But he's not the main guy. He's at best their Number 2 and in terms of future he's their Number 3.

How is he not there main guy?? Ok maybe sengun is but he is absolutely the #2 currently behind him. The ball is going to him to produce offensively on many possessions... I mean we saw the game last night didn't we?

I actually didn't get to watch the game last night.

Sengun is definitely their Number 1 guy. I don't think thats much of a question at this point. VanVleet is their starting point guard and is the engine of that offense. I'd even argue that Amen Thompson has emerged as the 2nd or 3rd guy moving forward behind sengun. Green leads the team in shots per game, sure, so thats a big argument for him as the number 1, but that's kind of the only argument.

[liquidswords]

FVV has had one of the most aggressive fall offs in NBA history. 6MOY candidate to virtually unplayable in a matter of years.

[tsherkin]

FVV is a bad scorer who likes shooting far too much. This isn't new. He has managed league-average efficiency exactly once in his career, 7 years ago, and he's a horrible, horrible finisher inside 10 feet who has been progressively more inconsistent from 3 since like 2020. 2 out of the last 3 seasons, he's even been pretty bad. And yeah, he's properly incompetent in the restricted area.

Dude hustles, and he moves the ball well, mostly reasonable head for the game on his shoulders unless it concerns his own shot selection. He's typically a net-positive player on offense. Definitely NOT the guy you want taking 19, 20 FGA in a game, especially in the playoffs. If that's Houston's strategy, they're already cooked.

[tmorgan]

I’m not saying Jalen Green is as bad as Saddiq Bey, but…

When a young, terrible team drafts a guy and he starts as a rookie and puts up good counting stats, an expectation is set in that player’s mind. Good on the Rockets for not giving Green a rookie max extension, but he’s still going to be overpaid and with expectations of a starting role and a lot of shots.

Guys like that need to be traded. Bey was a lesser player, but once his salary and role demands became clear, again, based on his role and pseudo-productivity in the past, we just got rid of him. He wasn’t getting better, he wasn’t developing new skills, and he wasn’t worth 15+ mil a year to keep. Now he’s a small contract bench shooter, as he should be.

On a new team, Green will get his ego checked, a smaller role, and perhaps his head in the right place. Since he’s way more physically talented than Bey, maybe he gets it together and is worth his contract and then earns another good one. But that can’t be Houston’s problem, because he’ll never accept a demotion there. Trade him in a deal for Durant, as a piece for Booker, or whatever, but trade him.

[ontnut]

FVV lowest FTR%, Lowest TS% since his rookie season by a significant margin, all shooting %'s down, first negative OBPM since rookie season....things are pointing really south for him. This was a step towards the end of his career at this point. He works hard on D, but age and size is going to catch up to him, and if he's a very below average shooter, well, what's there? He's also always got some nagging injury.

[ShouldaPaidBG]

Why are people referencing regular season wins as if that matters at all

[Wingy]

His per 36 stats strongly resemble Jordan Clarkson's. He doesn't play good defense. I wouldn't want him anywhere near my team.

I’ve seen past comps to Lavine, who I think actually gets too much flack, but who has obvious limitations.

A “regular” all star level talent, but would need to be paired with a perennial MVP-level star (ie- Joker, Giannis, SGA) to have a real shot. A player that just doesn’t have the decision-making, or ability to process (things go too fast for him, and/or too little recognition). Not dumb, not a bum, works hard, good teammate. Simply lacks those necessary abilities to be next level(s).

Too early to tell if that’s Green too, but it’s possible. Youth doesn’t mask everything forever.

Kid needs an in between game. Example of…yes a lot of today’s players are more skilled at some things (primarily distance shooting, and advanced handle), but sorely lacking in others.

We really overrate these scorers who do nothing but score. Especially when they aren't absolutely elite at scoring. The thing that sucked about Jalen Green last night (and we saw this with Demar Derozan in Toronto for years) is that when his scoring gets neutralized by a good playoff defense, he's out there doing less than nothing. For 30 minutes last night, the Rockets were saddled with their weakest defender and most chaotic decision maker. The only success the Rockets had last night was by being big and brutal, and Jalen Green took away from their ability to do that without giving them anything in return. To be fair, he had a solid night on the boards. I just found myself thinking they'd probably score more with Eason (he'd get a couple more stops and steals), or Jabari (size), or obviously Adams (their second best player last night).

We’re in a thread asking for Homeland Security to detain him, so seems like he’s getting plenty of criticism.

[scrabbarista]

FVV is offensively limited but very important to this team.

They are 41-19 with FVV in the lineup and 11-11 without him, he has the second highest RPM on the team after Sengun.

That being said, abysmal offensive performance last night.

Yes, you can tell who doesn't watch/understand Houston by some of the criticisms of FVV. Also true, he had a rough game.

[cupcakesnake]

I’ve seen past comps to Lavine, who I think actually gets too much flack, but who has obvious limitations.

A “regular” all star level talent, but would need to be paired with a perennial MVP-level star (ie- Joker, Giannis, SGA) to have a real shot. A player that just doesn’t have the decision-making, or ability to process (things go too fast for him, and/or too little recognition). Not dumb, not a bum, works hard, good teammate. Simply lacks those necessary abilities to be next level(s).

Too early to tell if that’s Green too, but it’s possible. Youth doesn’t mask everything forever.

Kid needs an in between game. Example of…yes a lot of today’s players are more skilled at some things (primarily distance shooting, and advanced handle), but sorely lacking in others.

We really overrate these scorers who do nothing but score. Especially when they aren't absolutely elite at scoring. The thing that sucked about Jalen Green last night (and we saw this with Demar Derozan in Toronto for years) is that when his scoring gets neutralized by a good playoff defense, he's out there doing less than nothing. For 30 minutes last night, the Rockets were saddled with their weakest defender and most chaotic decision maker. The only success the Rockets had last night was by being big and brutal, and Jalen Green took away from their ability to do that without giving them anything in return. To be fair, he had a solid night on the boards. I just found myself thinking they'd probably score more with Eason (he'd get a couple more stops and steals), or Jabari (size), or obviously Adams (their second best player last night).

We’re in a thread asking for Homeland Security to detain him, so seems like he’s getting plenty of criticism.

Until I see Homeland security in this thread, confirming they're going to pick him up, I think the criticism needs to continue!

(I get that I'm piling on, but I think the fans that have been waiting for him to become a superstar need to hear it. Or fans that still believe in Derozan, or Lavine, or Cam Thomas, or Tyler Herro, or CJ, or Brandon Ingram when he stops passing and playing d.)