2024-2025 NBA Playoffs Round 1, Game 1: (7) Orlando Magic at (2) Boston Celtics - 3:30pm ET

[Gant]

We’re probably the easiest team to beat in the Playoffs, in fact we’re so easy to beat nobody even has to play defense on Paolo and Franz. The shooting is so bad it’s debatable if anybody has to have defense plate on them.
With no real point guard ( Suggs isn’t a pg even if he was healthy) there’s nobody to control the flow and distribute shots, when Paolo and Franz have the ball is iso basketball all the defense has to do it let them kill the shot clock and try to drive to the rim or force a last second shot.

It’s simple basketball, it’s not even NBA level offense at all. Paolo or Franz would have to score 50+ points each to have a chance and that’s just not going to happen.

Everyone else shot the ball fine. They just didn't get any shots.

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Exactly 51 of the 81 shots came from Paolo and Franz, no point guard to creat and distribute or control flow and pace of the game is a HUGE problem.

The entire season feels like a waste I’m not even talking about injuries. Every step of the way crap was thrown against a wall to see what would stick. Caleb Houston was a DNP for most of the season then towards the end he starts getting minutes, 13 to be exact in game one. Jonathan Issac’s minutes restriction ( even if they don’t want to call it minutes restriction ) felt like they just tried to protect him all season. DaSilva goes from starter to not playing, same thing with Goga smh. Nothing made sense.

The Celtics rarely double team, playing every opponent straight up, which puts extra pressure on the opposition role players.

This game reminded me of the first game of last season's finals. Boston played Luka and Kyrie in single coverage. Those two got 45 out of 84 shots. Luka scored 30. No other Mav racked up a lot of points. The final score was 107 to 89, vs 103 to 86 for this Magic game 1.


The difference this postseason for Boston is who's healthy. Brown is hobbled with the knee, but Porzingis and Kornet are now healthy whereas a year ago they were both injured.

Last year in the playoffs the Celtics were forced to play Horford as the single big, even at times going with a no-big lineup with Oshae Brissett at center. In game 1 vs Orlando they frequently played double big, which took away most of the Magic's size advantage.

With Brown having to pick and choose his spots, I'd expect that will continue to some degree.

[three3d]

So, you don't think casually inbounding to a 250 lb guy at the baseline is the way to speed up?

I hate those little pesky fast twitchy guys that can handle the ball under 6’5”

Aren't they a defensive liability for all 5 positions too?

Yup lol, if you can’t defensively lock up 1 through 5 you can’t play for the Magic even if you’re so gifted as a pg you’re a nightly mismatch for the other team.

[tiderulz]

we dont know that though. He still seems to disappear in big games sometimes and his 3 pt shot has gotten worse every year in the league.

I think he has enough of a sample size that he is going to be ok. He’s had some big playoff games too. His game 4 last year was an absolute masterpiece. Paolo has had some stinkers too, it happens specially with our current roster construction. The 3pt part however who knows but I think atleast he has done it in the past as opposed to never done it

Agreed. Using net points to identify the best player in the Cavs series highlights Franz as the best player, contrary to the narrative that came out of that series.

He plays really good at home and his defense travels.

with us giving him near max deal, he needs to play good on the road too

[tiderulz]

You guys are trying too hard to identify "what went wrong". What went wrong is what we already know: we are a 7th seed and lost to a 2 seed. their stars are better and more experienced at this point, their role players are better and more experienced at this point, and their coaching is better, and that would be the case even if we were at full strength, and we are not, as we are missing two key players in Mo and Suggs.

You are all trying to solve this as if it isn't obvious. I think folks on this board need to reset their expectations for this series and enjoy that our team is battling and will grow from this series, think of it as gambling with house money.

BTW, P5 is now averaging 28pts, 9rbs, and 4ast on 42% shooting on 3pt shots over 8 playoff games against teams with ELITE defense.

He is not a rising star; he is a star now at 22 years old!

We’re probably the easiest team to beat in the Playoffs, in fact we’re so easy to beat nobody even has to play defense on Paolo and Franz. The shooting is so bad it’s debatable if anybody has to have defense plate on them.
With no real point guard ( Suggs isn’t a pg even if he was healthy) there’s nobody to control the flow and distribute shots, when Paolo and Franz have the ball is iso basketball all the defense has to do it let them kill the shot clock and try to drive to the rim or force a last second shot.

It’s simple basketball, it’s not even NBA level offense at all. Paolo or Franz would have to score 50+ points each to have a chance and that’s just not going to happen.

Everyone else shot the ball fine. They just didn't get any shots.

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CArter 2-6, 0-2 from 3
Joseph (starting PG) 0-1
KCP 2-5
Cole 1-3
Harris 0-2
Caleb 1-5
Black 1-4

no, everyone else did NOT shoot fine.

[basketballRob]

We’re probably the easiest team to beat in the Playoffs, in fact we’re so easy to beat nobody even has to play defense on Paolo and Franz. The shooting is so bad it’s debatable if anybody has to have defense plate on them.
With no real point guard ( Suggs isn’t a pg even if he was healthy) there’s nobody to control the flow and distribute shots, when Paolo and Franz have the ball is iso basketball all the defense has to do it let them kill the shot clock and try to drive to the rim or force a last second shot.

It’s simple basketball, it’s not even NBA level offense at all. Paolo or Franz would have to score 50+ points each to have a chance and that’s just not going to happen.

Everyone else shot the ball fine. They just didn't get any shots.

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CArter 2-6, 0-2 from 3
Joseph (starting PG) 0-1
KCP 2-5
Cole 1-3
Harris 0-2
Caleb 1-5
Black 1-4

no, everyone else did NOT shoot fine.

Franz and Paolo need to get the guards and Caleb more shots. Wendell shouldn't be shooting 3s. The rest of the team was 5-12 from 3.

No FA are going to want to come here and play with ballhogs.

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[tiderulz]

Everyone else shot the ball fine. They just didn't get any shots.

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CArter 2-6, 0-2 from 3
Joseph (starting PG) 0-1
KCP 2-5
Cole 1-3
Harris 0-2
Caleb 1-5
Black 1-4

no, everyone else did NOT shoot fine.

Franz and Paolo need to get the guards and Caleb more shots. Wendell shouldn't be shooting 3s. The rest of the team was 5-12 from 3.

No FA are going to want to come here and play with ballhogs.

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we dont have money to sign a big FA anyways, with all the money tied up in WCJ, Paolo, Franz and Suggs.

but players would love to play with Paolo and Franz, know they wont see double teams. they see what we do, our stars taking the majority of the shots because the role players wont shoot and when they do, they miss.

[Skybox]

Everyone else shot the ball fine. They just didn't get any shots.

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CArter 2-6, 0-2 from 3
Joseph (starting PG) 0-1
KCP 2-5
Cole 1-3
Harris 0-2
Caleb 1-5
Black 1-4

no, everyone else did NOT shoot fine.

Franz and Paolo need to get the guards and Caleb more shots. Wendell shouldn't be shooting 3s. The rest of the team was 5-12 from 3.

No FA are going to want to come here and play with ballhogs.

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You probably shouldn't quote people if you're going to ignore the facts they throw in your face

[Skybox]

Magic coach Jamahl Mosley on how Orlando gets more offense from players besides Paolo Banchero & Franz Wagner: “I think it’s just the ability to PLAY FASTER.”

Translation….. Get me a POINT GUARD , absolutely no way we’re ever going to play faster basketball with Paulo and Franz dribbling to creat their own shots.

BINGO, Paolo/Franz combined for 9 turnovers while both having 2nd and 3rd highest usage rates in the playoffs only behind Giannis. This teams need for a 3rd playmaker/guard who can run a competent pick and roll is HUGE

Can you imagine Paolo rolling to the hoop of a pick and roll without the ball in his hand I’d probably damn near pass out lol. And Paolo would be saying to himself,” wow it’s a lot easier to score when you roll to the basket and have a confident point guard making the play for me!”

He'd be like "Wow, basketball is easy" while thinking "I'll only need to sit in the ice bath for 20 mins today since I haven't spent 40 minutes smashing into triple teams on every possession".

[basketballRob]

CArter 2-6, 0-2 from 3
Joseph (starting PG) 0-1
KCP 2-5
Cole 1-3
Harris 0-2
Caleb 1-5
Black 1-4

no, everyone else did NOT shoot fine.

Franz and Paolo need to get the guards and Caleb more shots. Wendell shouldn't be shooting 3s. The rest of the team was 5-12 from 3.

No FA are going to want to come here and play with ballhogs.

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You probably shouldn't quote people if you're going to ignore the facts they throw in your face

The fact is, they shot fine. Franz made like 2-10 outside shots. Maybe he should pass it more.

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[dsg2021]

Playoff Paolo still a thing so far. Franz still a stud when you subtract the poor 3 point shooting and calculate a crazy 50% with 2P FG%.

And love the guy, don’t love the player Wendell Carter is still a thing. Even the TV announcer picked up his poor defense and said it out loud.

I would give anything in the world to somehow turn WCJ into like Anfernee Simons under 26 mil or Tyler Herro locked in at his 30 mil per for a long while.

[Duke4life831]

I’m saying this as an outsider, I get the sentiment of wanting to get other players more shots.

But the fact is, there is no one else on this roster right now that is healthy that defenses are worried about.

No offense. But if you’re saying after a playoff game that Caleb Houstan didn’t get enough shots, you’re in massive trouble.

Boston wants guys like Houstan, Black, Anthony, Harris putting up lots of shots. Switch Paolo with Jokic and you’re still not beating this Boston team with this offensive supporting cast.

Paolo and Franz are kind of in nowhere man land. They either have to do things themselves at a ridiculous rate. Or they have to rely on guys like Black, Houstan, Cole and so on to beat the Celtics in the playoffs. It’s kind of lose lose.

It’s the same issue as last year, but even worse because of no Suggs. There is just zero offensive firepower outside of those two guys.

[pepe1991]

I’m saying this as an outsider, I get the sentiment of wanting to get other players more shots.

But the fact is, there is no one else on this roster right now that is healthy that defenses are worried about.

No offense. But if you’re saying after a playoff game that Caleb Houstan didn’t get enough shots, you’re in massive trouble.

Boston wants guys like Houstan, Black, Anthony, Harris putting up lots of shots. Switch Paolo with Jokic and you’re still not beating this Boston team with this offensive supporting cast.

Paolo and Franz are kind of in nowhere man land. They either have to do things themselves at a ridiculous rate. Or they have to rely on guys like Black, Houstan, Cole and so on to beat the Celtics in the playoffs. It’s kind of lose lose.

It’s the same issue as last year, but even worse because of no Suggs. There is just zero offensive firepower outside of those two guys.

In modern basketball ( pretty much anything in nba post 2008-ish ) you simply won't win playoff game with two guys taking 65% of shots.
You need diversity to keep defense honest, also you need your players to be engaged.

Imagine playing for Magic as player that isn't called Paolo nor Franz. It is misserable experience. You are killing yourself on defense and you are just flat out ignored on offense. Most players have egos, all basketball players like to score or at least contribute to offense. Playing 30 min for 1-2 shots is accumulating frustration that will burst in lockerroom ( probably already did at least once ).

If Warriors can find 6 shots to Gary Payton who can't shoot ( in 16 min) or 3 shots for Post in 12 min, if Rockets can find 4 shots to Adams, 10 for Tari, if even damn Thib can find 7 shots for Payne in 15 min, how can Mosley look in the eyes of Corey Joseph after a game and ask him to "do better", after guy in 26 min had 1 shot taken?
Or KCP, who had 5 shots, made 2/4 threes. What's there for him to do ? How he can "play better" if neither star players nor coach is looking after him.
Must be fun going from Lebron & Jokić finding you all the time, to Franz and Paolo forgetting you exist for 36 min.

Bottom line is, Celtics will leave Franz and Paolo open a lot, knowing they can't beat them.

Paolo and Franz took and made whole bunch of bad shots, and it sill didn't mean anything, as team couldn't crack 90 points, eventually having like 7 men that hardly touched ball and two players who hunted down own stats on 9 assists / 9 TOs and fat losing effort.

Like i said, story of a game is: played well, lost by 17.

What will happen in game when Franz and Paolo play bit worst? Lose by 35?

Basketball is 5 on 5 game. Not 2 players and 3 exstras vs 5 defenders.

[Skybox]

I’m saying this as an outsider, I get the sentiment of wanting to get other players more shots.

But the fact is, there is no one else on this roster right now that is healthy that defenses are worried about.

No offense. But if you’re saying after a playoff game that Caleb Houstan didn’t get enough shots, you’re in massive trouble.

Boston wants guys like Houstan, Black, Anthony, Harris putting up lots of shots. Switch Paolo with Jokic and you’re still not beating this Boston team with this offensive supporting cast.

Paolo and Franz are kind of in nowhere man land. They either have to do things themselves at a ridiculous rate. Or they have to rely on guys like Black, Houstan, Cole and so on to beat the Celtics in the playoffs. It’s kind of lose lose.

It’s the same issue as last year, but even worse because of no Suggs. There is just zero offensive firepower outside of those two guys.

I think that's generally agreed upon...the bitching is more about what the FO didn't do for the last couple of years and how obvious it's reflected in the box score. The goal (I hope ) isn't to get those scrubs more shots, it's to replace them with guys who should get those shots.

KCP is a proven career 3pt shooter...I can't imagine he was brought in here with a 50% raise at his age, to just keep taking a handful of shots. But, that's what he's done. His % has ticked up to where it should have always been but his volume makes it meaningless.

[eyriq]

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[dsg2021]

I’m saying this as an outsider, I get the sentiment of wanting to get other players more shots.

But the fact is, there is no one else on this roster right now that is healthy that defenses are worried about.

No offense. But if you’re saying after a playoff game that Caleb Houstan didn’t get enough shots, you’re in massive trouble.

Boston wants guys like Houstan, Black, Anthony, Harris putting up lots of shots. Switch Paolo with Jokic and you’re still not beating this Boston team with this offensive supporting cast.

Paolo and Franz are kind of in nowhere man land. They either have to do things themselves at a ridiculous rate. Or they have to rely on guys like Black, Houstan, Cole and so on to beat the Celtics in the playoffs. It’s kind of lose lose.

It’s the same issue as last year, but even worse because of no Suggs. There is just zero offensive firepower outside of those two guys.

And the truth was spoken. But how much defense do we kill for it?

[SOUL]

The entire season feels like a waste I’m not even talking about injuries. Every step of the way crap was thrown against a wall to see what would stick. Caleb Houston was a DNP for most of the season then towards the end he starts getting minutes, 13 to be exact in game one. Jonathan Issac’s minutes restriction ( even if they don’t want to call it minutes restriction ) felt like they just tried to protect him all season. DaSilva goes from starter to not playing, same thing with Goga smh. Nothing made sense.

How doesn't that make sense? Goga sucked after his concussion. The entire fanbase was calling for Jett Howard, TDS, Goga minutes and they all flopped for large parts of the season. Houstan was missing a bunch of shots earlier in the year and then finally made shots during the end of the year.

That's the NBA. Way better players get DNPs/low minutes, especially in playoffs when teams go short rotation. Magic are forced to play more because of inconsistencies so some of these guys are lucky they're even playing.

I mean, I get the idealism of "try to get everyone shots" but the players themselves said they have to be more aggressive with the ball and that they were being too passive when they did have it.

[KillMonger]

Magic coach Jamahl Mosley on how Orlando gets more offense from players besides Paolo Banchero & Franz Wagner: “I think it’s just the ability to PLAY FASTER.”

Translation….. Get me a POINT GUARD , absolutely no way we’re ever going to play faster basketball with Paulo and Franz dribbling to creat their own shots.

We need to find one that isn't ball dominant

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[eyriq]

This was a bad defensive game even with the low score. The only reason our defense failed was because of White (+6.0 oNet) and Pritchard (+7.1 oNet). The worst defenders for Orlando? CoJo (-4.4 dNet) and Cole (-2.7 dNet).

KCP needs to be better on defense as well (-0.9 dNet), but he's a plus defender overall.

I would 100% scale up AB and Harris and scale down CoJo and Cole.

[IllMagic04]

The game went exactly how I thought it would go. We'd play well in the first half gag in the third quarter. Thats pretty much our season. The problems don't go away in the playoffs. They get magnified. As many 3s as they hit they scored 103. That wasn't the problem. The problem was 86 on our side. Thats just not nearly enough. Tatum is not going to play that mediocre in game 2. I expect another beating in game 2. Game 3 is where I think we may have a chance for a close game. Remember last year. We looked dreadful in game 1 and 2 and looked good at home. Role players play better at home.

BTW is there anyone that still believes Franz> Paolo I remember having that debate with some of you.

[IllMagic04]

This was a bad defensive game even with the low score. The only reason our defense failed was because of White (+6.0 oNet) and Pritchard (+7.1 oNet). The worst defenders for Orlando? CoJo (-4.4 dNet) and Cole (-2.7 dNet).

KCP needs to be better on defense as well (-0.9 dNet), but he's a plus defender overall.

I would 100% scale up AB and Harris and scale down CoJo and Cole.

Completely disagree that this was a bad defensive game. White and Prichard making shots wasn't bad defense really. It was just role players stepping up when the ball was swung to them. I personally don't see much issue with the rotation. Cole only played 10 minutes. I would like to see AB and Cole on the floor together more in this series. If they start targeting Cole/CoJo it at least makes their offense a bit more predictable, and we can bring different kinds of help schemes. Defense takes a hit but we can't keep scoring under 90 points and expect this to go more then 4 games.