The trade market for pitchers

[PhilipNelsonFan]

To steer away from the R.A. Dickey conversation...what about Feierabend? Do we see if he's a rotation pitcher or is he better suited for the pen?

[Basketball Jesus]

He probably has more value as a throw-in in a potential Bedard deal than he does with this team, mostly because at best he profiles to be a back-of-the-rotation guy on a team full of back-of-the-rotation guys.

He does have the talent to make it in a rotation but he's probably not the kind of guy a serious contenter would trot out every five days...if that makes sense.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

That makes perfect sense. But in light of all that we've discussed with minor-leaguers and guys like Morrow and Baek working their way up in the world, he seems a bit out of place.

I have no problem throwing him into a Bedard deal.

[Sweezo]

With Kuroda off the market, this will officially be the offseason where it is proven whether Bavasi is a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) or not...does he realize that Lohse and Silva suck, or does he pay them to be be #1-#2 starters? Does he spend the money because he can and wants to save his job? Or does he realize he won't strike gold with either and save the money for a time or place where it is actually useful?

IMO Bedard is the only pitcher on the market who may be worth the cost to acquire him.

[Basketball Jesus]

I fully expect to see Tillman in the bigs at some point next season.

I

[Ex-hippie]

Buster Olney reports today that the M's are now considering a package centered around Adam Jones for... Joe Blanton.

Joe Freaking Blanton.

Beane and Bavasi shouldn't be allowed in the same room together. It's such an intellectual mismatch. No good can come of it.

[Basketball Jesus]

Oh god. Not only would he be trading intra-division, but he

[Ex-hippie]

C - Clement, Moore (hey, the "Night Before Christmas" catching tandem! Hadn't thought of that!)

I was watching the New York Jets game this weekend and noticed that the right side of their offensive line consists of Anthony Clement and Brandon Moore. Coincidence? How can anybody possibly think so? It's a sign.

[Sweezo]

Buster Olney reports today that the M's are now considering a package centered around Adam Jones for... Joe Blanton.

Joe Freaking Blanton.

Beane and Bavasi shouldn't be allowed in the same room together. It's such an intellectual mismatch. No good can come of it.

Yeah, well...consider the alternatives...

Carlos Silva, perhaps the top starting pitcher remaining on the free-agent market, does not figure to be available much longer.

The Mariners are in serious negotiations with Silva on a contract that would be worth at least $44 million over four years, according to major-league sources.

For the Mariners, the signing of Silva would put them halfway toward their goal of adding two starting pitchers this off-season. They also are pursuing Orioles left-hander Erik Bedard in a trade.

Silva, 28, became a primary focus for the Mariners after they lost Japanese free-agent right-hander Hiroki Kuroda to the Dodgers over the weekend.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7580112

You think Horacio Ramirez sucks? Yeah, try offering him $44 million...

It's a bad sign when we keep getting into bidding wars with the Royals for starting pitchers. This is a weak market for pitching, so instead of say trading some pieces for a good SP and then replacing those pieces with free agent signings, we're "forced" to offer a long term franchise crippling deal to a pitcher who's no better than a 4th or 5th starter.

How the hell does this organization expect to keep Felix when he gets to look down the line and see how much Washburn/Silva/Batista make per year? How much will he think he's worth in comparison?

[PhilipNelsonFan]

Every time I read an article from an outside source on the Mariners, I feel like Charlie Brown. All I can say is *sigh*.

To paraphrase Ferris Bueller's Day Off: "I think we should shoot him."

[Ex-hippie]

Well, at least Silva's better than Kyle Lohse.

(Think back to this time last year when I probably made a comment along the lines of "Well, at least Batista's better than Jeff Weaver.")

[MrNate]

If we trade for Bedard, I don't care how much we paid Carlos Silva... a rotation of Bedard/Felix/Wash/Batista/Silva is going to be good enough to somewhat contend.

[b_roy7]

If we trade for Bedard, I don't care how much we paid Carlos Silva... a rotation of Bedard/Felix/Wash/Batista/Silva is going to be good enough to somewhat contend.

As long as Bavasi doesn't get us raped of course.

[Sweezo]

Why? Where does anyone see a rotation of Bedard/Felix/Wash/Batista/Silva getting us?

If we trade for Bedard, and Jones/Morrow go along for the the ride, has the defense improved to suit the strengths of pitcher both new and old? Moving Jones and leaving Ibanez means the flyball pitchers get screwed over, and leaving Sexson at first and Lopez at second means the defense isn't exactly going to gobble up those groundballs for Silva and Felix.

Has the offense improved to help out the pitching staff? Sexson regresses every year, Ibanez was teetering last year, Lopez can only give you have a season of decentness, Vidro's a weak slug, Guillen's RBI # haven't been replaced, and Joh's a catcher on teh wrong side of 30 likely coming off a career year.

We're not going to contend w/ Bedard and Silva. Angels own the division and the wildcard is not going through the AL West. This team is poised to regress to the mean, and nothing has been done that would constitute a huge improvement at this point.

I'd love to have Bedard, but at this point it seems like a move that would be made by a GM clinging to his job who very well won't be around in a couple years when Jones and Morrow are entering their prime and Bedard's making millions pitching for the Sox/Yanks.

Paying $11 million per to Silva likely precludes much in the way of spending to improve other deficiencies on the team.

[TheUrbanZealot]

wow, just wow. Well, you can't blame Silva- this is what the Mariners are good at, paying 10+ million for mediocrity. I just don't understand- what does Silva do that say, Cha Seung Baek, or Morrow cant' do right now in the rotation?

This deal has to be a precursor to another deal. The problem is, Bavasi is banking EVERYTHING on a return to form for Sexson, Lopez, and Beltre (who was somewhat improved last year). The only way this makes any semblance of sense is if we are getting Santana, who is one of Silva's best buddies.

I'm sure this is just a reactive move to spend on whomever is the best avail out there. Very unnecessary, we already have our Carlos Silva, and his name is Miguel Batista.

This guy is making Pat Gillick look like a damn genius.

[Sweezo]

wow, just wow. Well, you can't blame Silva- this is what the Mariners are good at, paying 10+ million for mediocrity. I just don't understand- what does Silva do that say, Cha Seung Baek, or Morrow cant' do right now in the rotation?

We don't often agree, but we do here. I really don't see how Silva at $10+ million per is preferable to Baek at a few hundred thousand. It's a move that does make the M's pitching staff better than it was a few weeks ago, but won't translate into any sort of chance at winning the division. It's a move designed to convince the average dumbass fan that management is being proactive and keep lining their pockets.

[MrNate]

Bedard vs. Lackey: Barring injury, Bedard is clearly the better pitcher, because of the much higher rate he strikes people out and misses bats. With the injury risk included, it's probably a wash.

Felix vs. Escobar: The young pitcher vs. a guy coming off a career year, I'm going to say that going forward, Felix is probably the better of the two, especially taking into account Escobar's history of injuries.

Silva vs. Weaver: Silva loses, clearly not as good, but not as far behind as you might think.

M. Batista vs. E. Santana: Santana was a disaster on the road, and eventually got sent down to AAA. He has all the tools to succeed but can't seem to get his stuff together. You know what you are getting from Batista, around a 4 ERA and some solid innings. Adv: Batista.

Washburn vs. Moseley/Saunders: I don't think any of these pitchers is very good, unless the Angels rush Adenhart, or one of their other prospects, I think Washburn could be every bit as good as their fifth starter.

Yes we have holes on defense that still need to be addressed. And we need to sign a corner OF that will get some XBHs. But if we do these things, our rotation is definitely good enough to compete with the Angels.

Also, how was last year a Career year for Johjima Sweez, when 2006 was better than 2007 for him. And we always have Clement if Johjima totally bombs.

[Bulltalk]

-= original quote snipped =-



We don't often agree, but we do here. I really don't see how Silva at $10+ million per is preferable to Baek at a few hundred thousand. It's a move that does make the M's pitching staff better than it was a few weeks ago, but won't translate into any sort of chance at winning the division. It's a move designed to convince the average dumbass fan that management is being proactive and keep lining their pockets.

I hope this signing turns out well, but it does fall into a pattern the M's have grooved in recent years, paying top dollar for average to slightly above average players.

[Basketball Jesus]

Wow

[Ex-hippie]

Ian Snell? (Scroll down to last paragraph.) I say yes!

Edwin Jackson? (Again, scroll down to last paragraph.) Three years ago I would have said yes, now I say meh.