PG: that sucked

[thebuzzardman]

This team isn't it.

Coach sucks, roster is ill formed.

Fire the coach, make some roster changes.

Pistons in 5

[HEZI]

18 shot attempts shows someone was very much involved in the offense. The results sucked so now the blame is on Brunson and the coach but this is that someone

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[Jeff Van Gully]

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Preach!!!!! We were robbed!!!

What's his excuse for not going Mitch/KAT when you're getting killed on the glass?
What's his excuse for persistently going for ISO?
What's his excuse for icing out KAT?
What's his excuse for icing out Bridges?
What's his excuse benching Payne just because he had a couple of imperfect minutes?
What's his excuse for playing Hart while getting killed on the boards?

This team can't always rely on effort plays on both sides of the court. This coach needs to do a better job at making things easier. Hart had a decent 4th, but quarters 1 THRU 3 basically allowed his man to free roam.

sharing in your frustration. some thoughts:

What's his excuse for not going Mitch/KAT when you're getting killed on the glass?
-got nothing for that. figured it might have helped some. we were getting bullied and mauled on our floor. the punking is what made me sick. there were times i felt mitch should have been in there helping KAT put some belt to ass down there.

What's his excuse for persistently going for ISO?
-gotta give Detroit's defense a lot of credit for making the ball movement difficult. they took the options away and made us play into that weakness.

What's his excuse for icing out KAT?
-they doubled him to death because they didn't want him to be as impactful as he was in game 1. he was scoring at will and feeling "loosey goosey" on both ends of the ball. loved that approach for them. they couldn't afford to get mauled by a sabretooth in consecutive games.

What's his excuse for icing out Bridges?
-i'd say bridges lack of shots were also a function of how they chose to defend POA. the passing lanes just weren't there. when brunson and bridges did get looks late... they missed them. before that, DHOs into drives were the trap they set. OG had to work really hard for the couple of middies he got.

What's his excuse benching Payne just because he had a couple of imperfect minutes?
-if payne isn't hot and inspiring like he was in game 1, his minutes can be a detriment. let's not act like the man wasn't vilified pretty much all season for being a scrub or something like that.

What's his excuse for playing Hart while getting killed on the boards?
-that's a serious question? if there's anything hart brings to the game that's positive...

again, frustrated and disappointed too. but some of the commentary i heard about basically just not sacking up last night feels like the biggest issue. detroit's defense is great. reminds me of us a while ago. and this is a metal bat party. period. we have the right coach for that kind of thing. the players all but said we didn't match the intensity. i'm sure there are lots of reasons why, and more nuanced than us frustrated fans on a message board can properly evaluate. but bottom line -- we didn't.

[Fury]

18 shot attempts shows someone was very much involved in the offense. The results sucked so now the blame is on Brunson and the coach but this is that someone

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He choked.

[mpharris36]

All of the (valid) coaching criticisms aside from this game...

-Mikal Bridges had 3 wide open looks from 3 in the last 5 minutes. Missed them all.
-Knicks went 0-8 from 3 in the first quarter. Most of them being open.
-Brunson had an open look with 8 seconds left to get the lead down to 1. Missed it.
-OG didn't make a 3 all night.

Sometimes a game can simply come down to do the guys you need to make shots make them or not... The Knicks guys came out on the wrong side of that equation last night.

Game is different, even with all the noise, if the guys they needed to make shots actually made them.

I do agree we missed some makeable shots...especially end of game. But these games shouldn't even be this close.

The talent gap is too large...we shouldn't be struggling to get good looks. Everything is a slog. And yes the refs are allowing a lot of physicality especially on the pistons side. But our pace is terrible.

[DOT]

Fun fact

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shots-closest-defender?CloseDefDistRange=6+%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open&dir=D&sort=FGA

We've had 31 "wide open" (nearest defender is more than 6 feet away) field goal attempts in the last 2 games. That average of 15.5 is worst among teams in the playoffs. To be fair, only 4 teams have played 2 games, and the Pistons and Clippers are at 16.5 each but still

We're just not generating a ton of wide open looks. I mean hell, the Thunder had 34 wide open looks in their 1 game, and Minny had 30 in their 1 game. I get we didn't convert on our wide open looks (Mikal went 0-4 from 3 on wide open shots last night, yeesh), but we need to do a better job of generating them. And that's a coaching issue.

[djsunyc]

Thibs deserves most of the blame for how iso heavy we play with Brunson but Brunson is a smart player, you would think at some point he’ll realize how bad our shots are that he’ll make some sort of adjustment

It took a coaching change for Donovan Mitchell to realize that, it's why his regular season was so scaled back compared to normal. They took him off the ball and spread the wealth. These guys are pros and even then most of them are not going to come up off the ball unless someone is telling them to do it.

the knicks don't have any secondary ball handling play creation. cavs still have garland + jerome.

hart + og + mikal are not playmakers. neither is kat. the roster's offensive skillset is quite limited outside of iso-ball. the difference between this year and the last 2 years is that the bench was markedly better hence they were able to win minutes when the starters were out. not this year. it caught up to them.

i actually think thibs has this team playing as well as it can due to it's makeup.

[Jeff Van Gully]

somebody correct me if i'm tripping but the last couple years we won off possessions. we outrebounded the opposition and won the possessions game. that's the thibs way. this year's team, including guys that were here back then, cough the ball up constantly for no god damn reason. even some possessions that we end up keeping, it feels like the ball is in constant danger of being turned over. that's our problem imo

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/team-average-turnovers

yup, we had a bad turnover game but that hasn't been our issue this year.

and i credit Detroit's recognition of our passing games/lanes for taking us out of rhythm. that with the physicality was the difference. i'm just surprised we wilted on our floor like that. that's the series from here on out.

people talk about the talent differential and the coaching strategies. none of that is going to matter if the pistons just shove your face into your own piss and you don't so much as bite them.

our response was way too late last night and was almost too late game 1. imposition of will has to be much earlier or the final horn will come for this team sooner than desired.

[3toheadmelo]

I stand with Mikal. Knicks in 5!

[Jeff Van Gully]

Fun fact

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shots-closest-defender?CloseDefDistRange=6+%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open&dir=D&sort=FGA

We've had 31 "wide open" (nearest defender is more than 6 feet away) field goal attempts in the last 2 games. That average of 15.5 is worst among teams in the playoffs. To be fair, only 4 teams have played 2 games, and the Pistons and Clippers are at 16.5 each but still

We're just not generating a ton of wide open looks. I mean hell, the Thunder had 34 wide open looks in their 1 game, and Minny had 30 in their 1 game. I get we didn't convert on our wide open looks (Mikal went 0-4 from 3 on wide open shots last night, yeesh), but we need to do a better job of generating them. And that's a coaching issue.

what would you suggest for that creation?

[thebuzzardman]

I cant even enjoy watching other games after sht like that. Knicks stay ruining my life. Toxic fcking relationship I need to quit.

I'm already checked out. I didn't watch the game. I won't be watching any more of the series. The team is ass, the coach is worse.

[K_ick_God]

KAT is outside the offense. G1 seemed to change that but nah. Team is basically playing a more frantic version of the late season team.

There is no flow. Defensive holes. I think it’s all over but the shouting.

Brunson seems tired too, and I don’t approve of his approach. He is overworking himself and making it easy to game plan for us.

Honestly the only thing I see that could change anything would be a) KAT launching a ton of shots no matter what, b) Payne, c) Deuce getting red hot.

The team is tentative except for Brunson. KAT isn’t afraid to shoot. But he’s also not demanding the ball.

A lack of quick shooters and playmakers (Donte, Payne) seems to kill the team. OG and MB are hesitant. Not a good chemistry and Thibs doesn’t have what it takes to fix it.

[dakomish23]

A lot of our wins in the playoffs last year was based on teams choking in the 4th and us turning it up. It wasn't b/c we were some unstoppable machine.

We absolutely have the ability to be such a machine and that's what I'd like to see today.

Well, we got the opposite of this.

Watch on YouTube

[Jeff Van Gully]

oh, yeah. forgot to add. mitch is not equipped to pass under these circumstances. so much of the inside-out passing was stifled. and they saw food every time mitch had the ball outside the dunker's spot. so, there was some damned if you do/don't with him last night.

[Wildcat]

mike malone = rethread
most hc in the nba are just like above

johnnie bryant could be the next man up

Bryant was the Thibs Whisperer. I'm convince of this. Because '24 Thibs and '25 Thibs are virtually different coaches.

I feel like Tom has been worse this year than the last two years. Coincidence? Maybe not.

He has. I defended Thibs as if my life depended on it during the '23/'24 season. This season, I ain't seeing it. He's saying the same thing. But this team does not execute at the same level as they did last season. And if he's being tuned out, well, we know what that means. ISO ball is not this team's strong suite. I don't care about highlight rebounds.

[Jeff Van Gully]

A lot of our wins in the playoffs last year was based on teams choking in the 4th and us turning it up. It wasn't b/c we were some unstoppable machine.

We absolutely have the ability to be such a machine and that's what I'd like to see today.

Well, we got the opposite of this.

Watch on YouTube

detroit didn't fold. both teams played ugly. both teams struggled to score, to be real.

as thibs says, sometimes you have to win in different ways. we needed to overpower a starving, angry group tonight. we looked like rocky balboa in the first clubber lang fight.

[K_ick_God]

oh, yeah. forgot to add. mitch is not equipped to pass under these circumstances. so much of the inside-out passing was stifled. and they saw food every time mitch had the ball outside the dunker's spot. so, there was some damned if you do/don't with him last night.

Precious should be inserted. But he won’t. What kind of a fool watches KAT and Payne win G1 and then he goes back to Brunson solo.

[K_ick_God]

With Hart in last season’s playoffs, the team looked like it knew what it wanted to do, and he was handling the ball. Now nobody knows what they want to do and Hart has no major role.

Less is more in basketball oftentimes.

[LFGK]

All of the (valid) coaching criticisms aside from this game...

-Mikal Bridges had 3 wide open looks from 3 in the last 5 minutes. Missed them all.
-Knicks went 0-8 from 3 in the first quarter. Most of them being open.
-Brunson had an open look with 8 seconds left to get the lead down to 1. Missed it.
-OG didn't make a 3 all night.

Sometimes a game can simply come down to do the guys you need to make shots make them or not... The Knicks guys came out on the wrong side of that equation last night.

Game is different, even with all the noise, if the guys they needed to make shots actually made them.

I do agree we missed some makeable shots...especially end of game. But these games shouldn't even be this close.

The talent gap is too large...we shouldn't be struggling to get good looks. Everything is a slog. And yes the refs are allowing a lot of physicality especially on the pistons side. But our pace is terrible.

whistle will even out in detroit, we get a brutal whistle at home. Need to play mitch more then 20 min a game and together with KAT(and without Hart) so we can have some dominance on the boards and be better in the middle. It is a pretty easy fix, I expect them to play better on the road.

[mpharris36]

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/team-average-turnovers

yup, we had a bad turnover game but that hasn't been our issue this year.

and i credit Detroit's recognition of our passing games/lanes for taking us out of rhythm. that with the physicality was the difference. i'm just surprised we wilted on our floor like that. that's the series from here on out.

people talk about the talent differential and the coaching strategies. none of that is going to matter if the pistons just shove your face into your own piss and you don't so much as bite them.

our response was way too late last night and was almost too late game 1. imposition of will has to be much earlier or the final horn will come for this team sooner than desired.

Brunson for sure is getting caught up too much into the theatrics of the physicality. LIke him throwing up 6 fingers to Thompson (when he fouled out) when we were down...they are taking him out of the game mentally with all the physicality.

KAT's an interesting case because he had no offensive rebounds when he should be getting some but its a double edge sword because we also need him out there spacing the floor when Brunson gets into the paint. So we really are a one and done offense so that is why its so important to get better looks because we don't have the safety net of grabbing and offensive board like we use to.