Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

[MEDIC]

Meh. Unremarkable at getting to and finishing inside the RA. Below league average from 3-10 feet these past couple years. Wouldn't call him "pretty effective in the post," to be honest.

OK. What is Scottie currently "most" effective at from a scoring standpoint? Where does he appear to have the most talent &.potential?

[XTC]

Alright. People hate the KG comparison because of height & the fact that KG is a GOAT at PF.

How about Carlos Boozer with elite defense?

Carlos Boozer with elite defense is an all NBA player

If you're looking for a comparison you're looking at guys like Josh Smith. Barnes is Josh Smith who has an offense running through him. There's a reason why the offense gets worst with Barnes on the floor (110.9 ORTG with Barnes, 111.1 ORTG with no Barnes).

[tsherkin]

OK. What is Scottie currently "most" effective at from a scoring standpoint? Where does he appear to have the most talent &.potential?

Open transition dunks.

I don't think much of his potential as a scorer in general at all. It has never been a strength of his and he isn't making significant improvements. He's got some mid-range action going this past season, but that's not really all that helpful, particularly in context with the role the team keeps trying to force on him.

That's sort of been my point: I don't see much efficacy from him as a scorer. He's lived up to his pre-draft profile quite handily. As XTC said, he's sort of like a less-daft and less-athletic Josh Smith.

[XTC]

Meh. Unremarkable at getting to and finishing inside the RA. Below league average from 3-10 feet these past couple years. Wouldn't call him "pretty effective in the post," to be honest.

OK. What is Scottie currently "most" effective at from a scoring standpoint? Where does he appear to have the most talent &.potential?

Hes not particularly good anywhere at the moment. Out of 202 qualifying players Barnes ranked #182 in true shooting percentage. That is hilariously bad.

[ConSarnit]

His value at the moment is being a connective passer, and an offball scoring threat. Here's Scottie's 2FG% breakdown correlated to dribbles.

0 dribbles - 63.6%
1 dribbles - 60.4%
2 dribbles - 45.2%
3-6 dribbles - 45.4%
7+ dribbles - 42.4%

Here's his 2FG% breakdown correlated to seconds with the ball

0-2 seconds - 64.0%
2-6 seconds - 49.4%
6+ seconds - 40.9%

I think people are having a hard time coming to the fact that Barnes isn't a creator or scorer. The offense was run through Barnes this season and the team had a ORTG of 110.2 when he's on the floor vs 111.1 when he's off the floor (a -0.9 difference). That is honestly abysmal. If this team wants to win next season the ball cannot be in Barnes hand... it sucks to say, but he's a role player at the moment.

Drives - 46.3%
C&S 3's - 27.6%
Pull up jumpers - 39.1%
Pull up 3's - 25.5%
Elbow scoring- 56.8%
Post ups - 47.0%
Paint scoring- 66.4%
Isolation - 41.7%
Transition - 54.6%
P&R rolling - 57.5%

If the question is to see how we can utilize him effectively, he is most efficient from the elbow area and within. His jump shooting is honestly NON existent everywhere on the floor. I would use him as offball threat (that 3 point shooting needs to improve) and give him touches around the elbow, and incorporate more dribble hand offs/screens with Scottie. I actually think Scottie would do pretty well with RJ's shot diet.

The problem is he’s not an off-ball threat at all. He’s been very low volume as a roll man, hardly ever screens and we all know his shooting is bad. If you take current Barnes and put him off-ball he has very little value on a good team. Barnes would have to radically change the way he plays to be an off-ball threat. He’s currently played 4 seasons like a guard/wing and he’d effectively have to play like center to have value as an off-ball guy. Maybe it happens but I think it’s a long shot, at least for next season.

If we want to play Barnes as an elbow guy what happens to Poeltl? That elbow game doesn’t work if the other team’s C is parked in the paint. Go look at all of the effective elbow operators in the league. They are all centers except for Giannis, Zion and LeBron, guys who are massive threats to drive to the rim (which Barnes is not). Barnes has to play C for that to work at any volume (or we need a spacing C).

I agree.

I'm in the camp that Scottie wouldn't be a focal point on offense on any contender. He had the offense run through him and averaged 19.3/7.7/5.8 on 44/27/75 shooting splits, and a TS of 52.3% (-5.3% lower than league average). People are throwing KG comparisons, but I'm seeing Josh Smith more than anything.

Yeah, I’d say zero chance he’d be a focal point on any contender.

There were 58 players who averaged 18+ PPG this season. Barnes ranked dead last in efficiency. He was one of worst volume scorers in the league. We also don’t have a lot of evidence that running things through Barnes will actually float any type of solid offense. There are just a ton of questions about Barnes offensive fit going forward. The stuff he’s done (guard/wing type scoring) he’s been largely bad at and the stuff we might need hint to do (big man scoring) he’s not done very often.

[MEDIC]

I'm seeing Josh Smith more than anything.

I really like that comp for Scotties current skillset. Less shot blocking, but better playmaking. Draymond/ Josh Smith hybrid.

I really hope that he has more than that in his bag in his prime years though.....and I think he will.

[XTC]

I'm seeing Josh Smith more than anything.

I really like that comp for Scotties current skillset. Less shot blocking, but better playmaking. Draymond/ Josh Smith hybrid.

I really hope that he has more than that in his bag in his prime years though.....and I think he will.

Not a Draymond Green/Josh Smith hybrid.

Just Josh Smith. If you want a hybrid consider Josh Smith with the efficiency of Antoine Walker.

[MEDIC]

It sounds to me like a lot of you have kimd.of given up on his development from an offensive standpoint. "He is what he is".

Like.I have said previously, I am willing to throw this season.out. it was basically a full season of skill development. Hopefully he is better for it.

Personally, I don't see that 3 point shot ever becoming reliable. He needs direction though.

Maybe should gain a little strength & mass & play more of a power game, then look.for the floor spacing big to compliment more of an inside - out game.

[MEDIC]

I'm seeing Josh Smith more than anything.

I really like that comp for Scotties current skillset. Less shot blocking, but better playmaking. Draymond/ Josh Smith hybrid.

I really hope that he has more than that in his bag in his prime years though.....and I think he will.

Not a Draymond Green/Josh Smith hybrid.

Just Josh Smith. If you want a hybrid consider Josh Smith with the efficiency of Antoine Walker.

Sure. Walker was a better scorer than Draymond. I'll take that.

Walker with elite defense would have been a great player.

[XTC]

I really like that comp for Scotties current skillset. Less shot blocking, but better playmaking. Draymond/ Josh Smith hybrid.

I really hope that he has more than that in his bag in his prime years though.....and I think he will.

Not a Draymond Green/Josh Smith hybrid.

Just Josh Smith. If you want a hybrid consider Josh Smith with the efficiency of Antoine Walker.

Sure. Walker was a better scorer than Draymond. I'll take that.

Walker with elite defense would have been a great player.

Efficiency of Walker, not scoring.

[Raps in 4]

Meh. Unremarkable at getting to and finishing inside the RA. Below league average from 3-10 feet these past couple years. Wouldn't call him "pretty effective in the post," to be honest.

OK. What is Scottie currently "most" effective at from a scoring standpoint? Where does he appear to have the most talent &.potential?

Long twos and dunks. His only path forward IMO is as a post scorer. He needs to play bully ball. Chucking long twos isn't the answer, unless you're historically good at it (like Jordan, Kawhi). The only way he can raise his efficiency is by drawing fouls at an elite rate. He's not very skilled, so that just leaves him with his strength/size as a tool he can use to score.

[MEDIC]

Meh. Unremarkable at getting to and finishing inside the RA. Below league average from 3-10 feet these past couple years. Wouldn't call him "pretty effective in the post," to be honest.

OK. What is Scottie currently "most" effective at from a scoring standpoint? Where does he appear to have the most talent &.potential?

Long twos and dunks. His only path forward IMO is as a post scorer. He needs to play bully ball. Chucking long twos isn't the answer, unless you're historically good at it (like Jordan, Kawhi). The only way he can raise his efficiency is by drawing fouls at an elite rate. He's not very skilled, so that just leaves him with his strength/size as a tool he can use to score.

That's what I am thinking as well. Get stronger. A bit bulkier.

Continue to work on post up game, mid range shots, pick n roll & facilitating from high and low post.

[MEDIC]

Maybe get him to study Millsap's game. Scottie is longer which is good. He basically has the same standing reach as Siakam.

[tsherkin]

Meh. Unremarkable at getting to and finishing inside the RA. Below league average from 3-10 feet these past couple years. Wouldn't call him "pretty effective in the post," to be honest.

OK. What is Scottie currently "most" effective at from a scoring standpoint? Where does he appear to have the most talent &.potential?

Long twos and dunks. His only path forward IMO is as a post scorer. He needs to play bully ball. Chucking long twos isn't the answer, unless you're historically good at it (like Jordan, Kawhi). The only way he can raise his efficiency is by drawing fouls at an elite rate. He's not very skilled, so that just leaves him with his strength/size as a tool he can use to score.

He doesn't REALLY chuck long twos, though. Barely over 8% of his attempts are in that 16-23 foot range. That isn't what he does. Almost 48% of his shots are inside 10 feet already.

He needs to eliminate shooting 3s from anywhere but the corner as a starting point, and reduce his overall usage. But he still needs LARGE improvement inside the arc, so we need to find some way to help him be more competent. Reduced volume is one, but raising the proportion of his shots in transition and on cuts is as good a start as we're gonna find.

[tsherkin]

Maybe get him to study Millsap's game. Scottie is longer which is good. He basically has the same standing reach as Siakam.

Dunno if we want to look at him too much. Millsap wasn't a very good scorer, even at low volume. Like, in earlier eras with lower average efficiency, he was at the start of his career, but he's sort of held onto that 55, 56% TS efficiency the whole time instead of improving with the times. He wasn't a particularly good finisher inside either, nor was he an elite shooter.

[XTC]

OK. What is Scottie currently "most" effective at from a scoring standpoint? Where does he appear to have the most talent &.potential?

Long twos and dunks. His only path forward IMO is as a post scorer. He needs to play bully ball. Chucking long twos isn't the answer, unless you're historically good at it (like Jordan, Kawhi). The only way he can raise his efficiency is by drawing fouls at an elite rate. He's not very skilled, so that just leaves him with his strength/size as a tool he can use to score.

He doesn't REALLY chuck long twos, though. Barely over 8% of his attempts are in that 16-23 foot range. That isn't what he does. Almost 48% of his shots are inside 10 feet already.

He needs to eliminate shooting 3s from anywhere but the corner as a starting point, and reduce his overall usage. But he still needs LARGE improvement inside the arc, so we need to find some way to help him be more competent. Reduced volume is one, but raising the proportion of his shots in transition and on cuts is as good a start as we're gonna find.

I think Scottie needs to be deployed like someone like Jalen Johnson/2019 Siakam. An offball rim runner, who can make quick passes.

Jalen Johnson this past season was assisted on 68% of his buckets, Scottie was assisted on 49% of his buckets. Scottie needs to be closer to 70% assisted buckets. I also agree he needs to completely abandon three pointers unless he completely open in the corners. I have no faith in him to develop into an on ball scorer. I actually think he can excel if he's deployed like 2019 Pascal Siakam.

If I was the coaching staff I'd actually want the ball in the hands of IQ and RJ over Scottie.

[HangTime]

Reading this back in year going to be fun.

[Raps in 4]

OK. What is Scottie currently "most" effective at from a scoring standpoint? Where does he appear to have the most talent &.potential?

Long twos and dunks. His only path forward IMO is as a post scorer. He needs to play bully ball. Chucking long twos isn't the answer, unless you're historically good at it (like Jordan, Kawhi). The only way he can raise his efficiency is by drawing fouls at an elite rate. He's not very skilled, so that just leaves him with his strength/size as a tool he can use to score.

He doesn't REALLY chuck long twos, though. Barely over 8% of his attempts are in that 16-23 foot range. That isn't what he does. Almost 48% of his shots are inside 10 feet already.

He needs to eliminate shooting 3s from anywhere but the corner as a starting point, and reduce his overall usage. But he still needs LARGE improvement inside the arc, so we need to find some way to help him be more competent. Reduced volume is one, but raising the proportion of his shots in transition and on cuts is as good a start as we're gonna find.

I'm not saying he does. I'm saying if we converted most of his "bad" shots (3s) to long twos, it still wouldn't make him an efficient scorer. He needs something in addition to that shot (increasing his FTr with drives/post opportunities is the only realistic path forward I see for him becoming an efficient scorer).

[tsherkin]

I'm not saying he does. I'm saying if we converted most of his "bad" shots (3s) to long twos, it still wouldn't make him an efficient scorer. He needs something in addition to that shot (increasing his FTr with drives/post opportunities is the only realistic path forward I see for him becoming an efficient scorer).

I mean, he's shooting under 36% from long twos. His raw FG% would actually go up switching to long twos, and by almost 6%, which wouldn't be an awful thing. In reality, it would be better to just eliminate the shots entirely. He needs to improve his finishing in close and to shoot less, while we look for more shot volume from other places. We don't NEED him taking 15+ FGA/g on this squad, especially with how bad he is.

[tsherkin]

I think Scottie needs to be deployed like someone like Jalen Johnson/2019 Siakam. An offball rim runner, who can make quick passes.

Jalen Johnson this past season was assisted on 68% of his buckets, Scottie was assisted on 49% of his buckets. Scottie needs to be closer to 70% assisted buckets. I also agree he needs to completely abandon three pointers unless he completely open in the corners. I have no faith in him to develop into an on ball scorer. I actually think he can excel if he's deployed like 2019 Pascal Siakam.

If I was the coaching staff I'd actually want the ball in the hands of IQ and RJ over Scottie.

With all of this, yeah. Except maybe the "excel" part, because Scottie's never really been elite at cuts and the like, but it would certainly help.