Official NBA General Discussion 2024-25 V1.0

[Clutch0z24]

Believe what you want. There is zero proof that Masai turned down Durant for scotty/filler/picks.

This is from woj...



The Nets wanted Barnes Masai shut that down all the way through....OG did not have to be the player in addition to the deal....Prolly Precious or GTJR + Players to match salaries....It was 100 percent on the table and we would have kept OG if we gave up Barnes...That being said i still doubt KD/Siakam/FVV/OG make noise in the playoffs since we were lacking depth at that particular time as well as a proper Center.

You have provided no evidence that this was "100% on the table". But believe what you want.

Woj was and is one of the best reporters of all time i would take his word as truth....Just like when Raptors fans didn't want to believe him when he said Kawhi was going to the Clippers and he was a "Hack reporter" with "False Info" .....But ok...

[Basketball_Jones]

As good as Randle and Gobert are, you will always have a chance against them. They aren’t pressure performers. Ant would be the reason the Wolves could win here, and he’s gotta do a lot.

[mdenny]

This is from woj...



The Nets wanted Barnes Masai shut that down all the way through....OG did not have to be the player in addition to the deal....Prolly Precious or GTJR + Players to match salaries....It was 100 percent on the table and we would have kept OG if we gave up Barnes...That being said i still doubt KD/Siakam/FVV/OG make noise in the playoffs since we were lacking depth at that particular time as well as a proper Center.

You have provided no evidence that this was "100% on the table". But believe what you want.

Woj was and is one of the best reporters of all time i would take his word as truth....Just like when Raptors fans didn't want to believe him when he said Kawhi was going to the Clippers and he was a "Hack reporter" with "False Info" .....But ok...

WOJ wasn't making a truth claim here. He was reporting on rumors which is part of his job. And he did not mention the inclusion or exclusion of OG.

I think we agree tho. If masai turned down KD for scotty plus filler then it was a mistake. We would've contended for a chip with fred/pascal/og/Durant. Maybe a couple chips.

But if OG was part of the trade...it would've been a mistake because I don't think fred/pascal/Durant (with no depth) wouldve competed for a chip.

[Boogie!]

It's all just a function of the Barnes cult that spammed the board for a couple years. It's not limited to realgm. The barnes cult were harassing members of media on social media too.

Pascal in Indiana has been a success. Fred in Houston has been a success. Barnes taking the reins in toronto has been a failure. I guess nurse in philly has been a failure too but I don't think you can hold nurse accountable for that.

I could see Pascal get to HOF but he'll need to have some more success before he locks it up. He's such a good teammate and always has a good attitude too.

I’m not gonna call Barnes a failure yet… again as much as the siakam hate was hyperbole, calling Barnes a “failure” is equally dramatic… what is obvious though is that he’s not as good as initially hoped or expected and the delusional fanboys are as irrational as ever when defending him. Again, this is coming from someone who was advocating for Barnes to play more pg in his sophomore season… but I was never delusional enough to say he was more skilled than siakam. I’ve always supported Barnes but I’m also realistic about players skills and he definitely hasn’t improved in 2 years which is concerning.

I'm specifically referring to Barnes "having the keys to the franchise" as a failure. The raps may find success with Barnes as their 2nd/3rd or 4th best player. But he's not a franchise player.

That means you don't build around him. Ypu don't trade players because they aren't compatible with him. You don't consult him on FO decisions. Etc etc.

He's not nearly good enough for that type of role. You have to be at least a top 20 player for that. Barnes seems headed for top 50. Maybe top 40.

What’s funny is I’ve been saying this the whole time and a group of posters have been trying to gaslight me by acting like no one ever had expectations of Barnes being a franchise player. And then try to redefine the term franchise player…

[mdenny]

It's so hard to predict the west. There's 6 teams that wouldn't shock me to make the finals (rockets/memphis).

The Lakers should scare everyone.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Believe what you want. There is zero proof that Masai turned down Durant for scotty/filler/picks.

This is from woj...



The Nets wanted Barnes Masai shut that down all the way through....OG did not have to be the player in addition to the deal....Prolly Precious or GTJR + Players to match salaries....It was 100 percent on the table and we would have kept OG if we gave up Barnes...That being said i still doubt KD/Siakam/FVV/OG make noise in the playoffs since we were lacking depth at that particular time as well as a proper Center.

You have provided no evidence that this was "100% on the table". But believe what you want.

And you have provided nothing to prove the OG was part of the deal at all. Also, this is realgm, so nothing is ever 100% proven. So we might as well shut down the site then.

[mdenny]

This is from woj...



The Nets wanted Barnes Masai shut that down all the way through....OG did not have to be the player in addition to the deal....Prolly Precious or GTJR + Players to match salaries....It was 100 percent on the table and we would have kept OG if we gave up Barnes...That being said i still doubt KD/Siakam/FVV/OG make noise in the playoffs since we were lacking depth at that particular time as well as a proper Center.

You have provided no evidence that this was "100% on the table". But believe what you want.

And you have provided nothing to prove the OG was part of the deal at all. Also, this is realgm, so nothing is ever 100% proven. So we might as well shut down the site then.

I said it was only my opinion from the beginning? Only you two have asserted any of these rumors as factual accounts of a bargaining scenario between raps and Nets.

It's not factual. It was not "100% on the table". And your investment in this 3 year old rumor is weird.

[Los_29]

When realgm is this wrong about a player they just stay absolutely silent and will never admit when they are wrong.

Pascal Siakam HOF when it's all said and done

It's all just a function of the Barnes cult that spammed the board for a couple years. It's not limited to realgm. The barnes cult were harassing members of media on social media too.

Pascal in Indiana has been a success. Fred in Houston has been a success. Barnes taking the reins in toronto has been a failure. I guess nurse in philly has been a failure too but I don't think you can hold nurse accountable for that.

I could see Pascal get to HOF but he'll need to have some more success before he locks it up. He's such a good teammate and always has a good attitude too.

Some posters are just dramatic....But the ones that wanted him traded didn't hate him as a player it was mostly due to the team being capped at a certain level with him as your main guy....Even if Pacers beat the Bucks do anyone think they will make a push to the finals? Prolly not....Good player but if Siakam is your number 1 with very limited depth your not winning much....

Siakam with another all star like Hailiburton and a very deep roster....a little better but still not championship material.

Love Siakam but he would never have succeeded in Toronto post Kawhi and it was bound for a breakup.

I agree, he needed to move on. But I think people have learned a valuable lesson here. Three years ago I talked about how if Scottie developed into the player that Pascal is, we’d have a great team. People thought that would’ve been a disappointing outcome. Now it’s abundantly clear that Scottie won’t be anywhere near as polished as a scorer and likely needs to get his usage significantly reduced. People didn’t appreciate what we had and now they are looking quite foolish.

Pacers won’t win a championship but they’ve been to an ECF and might head to the 2nd round with a decent chance of giving the Cavs a good fight. What’s wrong with that?

And this is all with Pascal being their leading scorer.

[NinjaBro]

I never understood the disdain people in here had for Pascal. Aside from the pandemic bubble series (no one to blame but himself) he has always been good to great. I still felt Nurse's horrible coaching costed us that series. Siakam was awful and Nurse's entire gameplan was to let him and Mr Bet on Yourself just iso. Serge was on fire for the whole series and he was regulated to the bench. We had a god awful series but still took them to the end.

The Boston fans looked at Tatum and Brown very much the same way in that they could never get over the hump and were turning on them until Porzingis, White and Jrue came along. Imagine if Siakam had that supporting cast instead of Mr Bet on Yourself. We'd be looking at him a lot differently and would be the biggest raptor home grown success story and had his jersey retired to universal love and admiration like Lowry will. Yes, I left out the other jersey retirement guy on purpose.

[TorontoBarneys]

Looks like Siakam flopped to me.

[HiJiNX]

I never understood the disdain people in here had for Pascal. Aside from the pandemic bubble series (no one to blame but himself) he has always been good to great. I still felt Nurse's horrible coaching costed us that series. Siakam was awful and Nurse's entire gameplan was to let him and Mr Bet on Yourself just iso. Serge was on fire for the whole series and he was regulated to the bench. We had a god awful series but still took them to the end.

The Boston fans looked at Tatum and Brown very much the same way in that they could never get over the hump and were turning on them until Porzingis, White and Jrue came along. Imagine if Siakam had that supporting cast instead of Mr Bet on Yourself. We'd be looking at him a lot differently and would be the biggest raptor home grown success story and had his jersey retired to universal love and admiration like Lowry will. Yes, I left out the other jersey retirement guy on purpose.

I’m absolutely on the same wavelength about everything you said here.

I was a Pascal truther for a long time on here, one of the few after the bubble series, which obviously was very bad. But like you said, that series was a huge Nurse **** up for the exact reasons you stated. It was most glaring in Game 7 when Nurse benched Serge who was having a great game in favour of Gasol who was horrible all series. Of course we lose down the stretch as we couldn’t handle the Theis pnr action since Gasol was too slow.

Anyway, I’m very happy for Pascal. He’s an awesome player and has been for a long time. His last two years here were under appreciated. I’ve been saying it for a couple years now that Siakam is the best player on the Pacers and they are a better team with him as the lead guy than with Haliburton leading. Siakam dragged them to the ECF and looks like he can do it again. I’m still sad we traded him. Barnes theoretically has a higher ceiling but Barnes may not have the discipline and mental toughness of Siakam and without those pieces, a high ceiling means nothing.

[JB7]

Nope there was one initial report that was refuted because it didn't make sense, then it was focused on Barnes only.

Believe what you want. There is zero proof that Masai turned down Durant for scotty/filler/picks.

This is from woj...



The Nets wanted Barnes Masai shut that down all the way through....OG did not have to be the player in addition to the deal....Prolly Precious or GTJR + Players to match salaries....It was 100 percent on the table and we would have kept OG if we gave up Barnes...That being said i still doubt KD/Siakam/FVV/OG make noise in the playoffs since we were lacking depth at that particular time as well as a proper Center.

Everyone is missing the obvious trade candidate in those KD discussions. It appears to have been Pascal, but Nets were not interested in a player already in his prime and coming up on another max deal request, and were looking to go younger (Barnes).

Same with the Dame interest. Was probably Pascal's name that was floated as well.

[ciueli]

I never understood the disdain people in here had for Pascal. Aside from the pandemic bubble series (no one to blame but himself) he has always been good to great. I still felt Nurse's horrible coaching costed us that series. Siakam was awful and Nurse's entire gameplan was to let him and Mr Bet on Yourself just iso. Serge was on fire for the whole series and he was regulated to the bench. We had a god awful series but still took them to the end.

The Boston fans looked at Tatum and Brown very much the same way in that they could never get over the hump and were turning on them until Porzingis, White and Jrue came along. Imagine if Siakam had that supporting cast instead of Mr Bet on Yourself. We'd be looking at him a lot differently and would be the biggest raptor home grown success story and had his jersey retired to universal love and admiration like Lowry will. Yes, I left out the other jersey retirement guy on purpose.

We've discussed this for years. Pascal was never going to be the best player on a really good team, he always felt like a clear step down from the true superstars that run the league but he had to be paid the max anyway because that's what the market is. We really needed a complimentary second star to take the next step with him and we had no way to get that player as we kept drafting too low or trading picks away to fill holes, our flawed core quickly became too expensive with Fred and OG basically in line to get max contracts, Fred walked for nothing and Masai panic traded Pascal and OG to avoid the possibility of losing them for nothing as UFAs.

It works in Indiana because they have a complimentary star in Haliburton and a bunch of shooting around Pascal. Part of the blame is on Masai for not getting the shooting but I'm not sure how he would have gotten that second star, ultimately the rebuild was going to happen eventually, they just waited too long to maximize the return on our core players.

[tsherkin]

We've discussed this for years. Pascal was never going to be the best player on a really good team, he always felt like a clear step down from the true superstars that run the league but he had to be paid the max anyway because that's what the market is. We really needed a complimentary second star to take the next step with him and we had no way to get that player as we kept drafting too low or trading picks away to fill holes, our flawed core quickly became too expensive with Fred and OG basically in line to get max contracts, Fred walked for nothing and Masai panic traded Pascal and OG to avoid the possibility of losing them for nothing as UFAs.

"Panic-traded" is a good phrase. We needed to have done anything with Fred, and not sank all our eggs into a rebuild around a guy who was never projected to be a high-end scoring threat. And now we're basically back there, as Scottie's contract kicks in, only we have a lesser player. We have more potential I guess with BI and Quick and depending on how RJ responds and all that, of course, so that's something.

[NinjaBro]

We've discussed this for years. Pascal was never going to be the best player on a really good team

Eh? Isn't that what Pascal is doing on the pacers beating Giannis and Dame leading 2-0? Pascal was never the problem, it was Nurse and Masai/Bobby.

[ciueli]

We've discussed this for years. Pascal was never going to be the best player on a really good team

Eh? Isn't that what Pascal is doing on the pacers beating Giannis and Dame leading 2-0? Pascal was never the problem, it was Nurse and Masai/Bobby.

One player is not a team, the Bucks have horrible depth and traded better players for worse ones (Middleton for Kuzma, Holiday for Dame), Dame is also coming off injury and didn't even play game one it's not a surprise the Pacers are beating them, they started Taurean Prince and Ryan Rollins in game 1, even with Dame they don't have a real starting 5 let alone a bench.

Even if the Pacers get to the next round they will be obliterated by the Cavs, they're a second round and out team with better talent than we ever would have been able to put around Pascal.

[Boogie!]

The more I see the siakam vs Trent beef, the more it makes me hate the norm trade.

[MiamiSPX]

Believe what you want. There is zero proof that Masai turned down Durant for scotty/filler/picks.

This is from woj...



The Nets wanted Barnes Masai shut that down all the way through....OG did not have to be the player in addition to the deal....Prolly Precious or GTJR + Players to match salaries....It was 100 percent on the table and we would have kept OG if we gave up Barnes...That being said i still doubt KD/Siakam/FVV/OG make noise in the playoffs since we were lacking depth at that particular time as well as a proper Center.

Everyone is missing the obvious trade candidate in those KD discussions. It appears to have been Pascal, but Nets were not interested in a player already in his prime and coming up on another max deal request, and were looking to go younger (Barnes).

Same with the Dame interest. Was probably Pascal's name that was floated as well.

You bring up a good point. Especially when we now know that Masai had already decided by then that he was never going to max Siakam.

Anyway, it's quite the leap to take a reporter saying that including Barnes in any KD or Dame deal is a "non-starter".....to saying that there was a deal on the table and the Raptors refusal to include Barnes was what scuttled it LOL. Actually, it's not just a leap, it's an outright fabrication that has never been reported anywhere. Some of you are just upset at the fact that Masai would not include Barnes in any OFFER for KD (and that is fair to not agree with) and are also assuming that the Nets would have taken it (which again, was not reported anywhere). And that is before even getting into whether KD would even agree to go to Toronto. We already know Dame would not.

And just to belabor the point some more, getting KD to agree to come to your team is only half the battle. The other half is keeping him happy. He's about to leave his 4th team due to being unhappy.

Again, it's quite fair to be upset that Masai won't entertain trading Barnes for an older star. Especially in hindsight, with Scottie not improving at the rate we all want (myself included).

[Boogie!]

It's so hard to predict the west. There's 6 teams that wouldn't shock me to make the finals (rockets/memphis).

The Lakers should scare everyone.

The rockets and grizzlies aren’t doing jack all. Swept.

[TimeForChange]

why is develin calling the cavs game?

ugh