Pacers/Mavs

[Astaluego]

PACERS
In: Lively/Martín/Powell
Out: Nembhard /Pacers 25 FRP

With Turner hitting free agency and the risk of losing him or being forced to overpay, they get a young center to pair with Hali, who has already proven his value alongside an elite playmaker. Martin gives them another 3D veteran on a manageable contract.

MAVS
In: Nembhard/Pacers 25 FRP
Out: Lively/Martí/Powell

Mavs keep pushing to win now.. they get a guard that I think would explode if given the keys to a team and would also fit well alongside KI when I return

[Scoot McGroot]

Nembhard is more valuable than Lively, no? I don’t see Indy dealing Nembhard at all, as he’s kind of the perfect long term pairing with Haliburton. But if they did, they wouldn’t pay a 1st with him for a non superstar player.

[jayjaysee]

I don’t think the first is necessary, not even sure the value looks like without it..

I think Indy just pays Turner though. It’s hard to see him getting an offer that puts him in a price range Indy doesn’t want to pay.

And if I’m choosing between Toppin, Lively, Martin or Turner and Nembhard.. I’ll deal with the cap decisions in 2027. That might be losing Pascal or Turner or just not paying the young guys.. But that’s not a problem for 2025-2026

[ReggiesKnicks]

I'm not sure if Lively's combination of mobility, defensive presence, and offensive prowess makes him more valuable than Nembhard. My main consideration is Nembhard's position value, and scarcity reigns supreme, even if Lively and Nembhard are comparable in terms of impact and value.

[tcheco]

I love Lively, but Nembhard checks so many boxes. Defense, ball handling, shooting, at his current contract... it's too good.

Lively lacking 3pt shooting it's not ideal with how the team operates with Siakam too. Makes so much more sense to pay Turner at this point, and lose one of the bench pieces

[basketballwacko2]

PACERS
In: Lively/Martín/Powell
Out: Nembhard /Pacers 25 FRP

With Turner hitting free agency and the risk of losing him or being forced to overpay, they get a young center to pair with Hali, who has already proven his value alongside an elite playmaker. Martin gives them another 3D veteran on a manageable contract.

MAVS
In: Nembhard/Pacers 25 FRP
Out: Lively/Martí/Powell

Mavs keep pushing to win now.. they get a guard that I think would explode if given the keys to a team and would also fit well alongside KI when I return

Pacers say no easily, I like Lively if Turner is not coming back but not at the cost of Nembhard and a #1. Martin does nothing for me and Powell is pretty much done.

[basketballwacko2]

Better the Pacers trade Obi Toppin and their 2025 pick for a late 2026 #1 and resign Turner. Turner is the Rodney Dangerfield of the NBA, no respect man no respect.

[babyjax13]

Nembhard is more valuable than Lively, no? I don’t see Indy dealing Nembhard at all, as he’s kind of the perfect long term pairing with Haliburton. But if they did, they wouldn’t pay a 1st with him for a non superstar player.

I really can't imagine that Nembhard is more valuable league wide. He's a really good backup guard and an okay starting guard. Lively is a young center on a rookie contract who is clearly an average starting caliber guy and maybe more as he develops? And as cheap as Nembhard is, he is not rookie scale anymore.

[Mavrelous]

I think Lively is a much more valuable if healthy, but I understand if someone wants to value less because of injuries, OTOH, Nembhard does nothing for Dallas, he's not a primary on ball guard, which Dallas really need with Kyrie down.

[Scoot McGroot]

I think Lively is a much more valuable if healthy, but I understand if someone wants to value less because of injuries, OTOH, Nembhard does nothing for Dallas, he's not a primary on ball guard, which Dallas really need with Kyrie down.

Nembhard is a primary on ball guard. He plays off ball when Haliburton plays lead guard, because, well, it’s Haliburton? But otherwise, he’s absolutely lead guard whenever Tyrese is resting, or whenever Tyrese needs some possessions off during the game.

Nembhard may not be a 25 ppg player, but he’s absolutely a guy that can lead and drive an offense with smart and key play, while putting guys in positions to be successful.

Nembhard is more valuable than Lively, no? I don’t see Indy dealing Nembhard at all, as he’s kind of the perfect long term pairing with Haliburton. But if they did, they wouldn’t pay a 1st with him for a non superstar player.

I really can't imagine that Nembhard is more valuable league wide. He's a really good backup guard and an okay starting guard. Lively is a young center on a rookie contract who is clearly an average starting caliber guy and maybe more as he develops? And as cheap as Nembhard is, he is not rookie scale anymore.

He’s a pretty good starting guard for Indiana so far. While Haliburton makes the offense successful just by himself, Nembhard makes EVERYTHING else successful in Indy. His defense, attitude, big shot making, and yes, primary ball handling ability are the keys to make Indy a tough team. His counting stats may not look impressive, but he’s absolutely a key to this team winning.

I’ve often likened him to Derrick McKey, the glue piece integral to winning for the Pacers in the Reggie era. Detlef Schrempf seemed the much better player by all counting stats, but Indy swapping Detlef for McKey is a key piece to making Indy a winning team in that era.


I totally get that in the abstract Lively is more valuable. He’s a young athletic center that can run and jump and do a bunch of things to help a team. But man, Nembhard is that dude. Hes special in ways that Mathurin or whatever wont be. We’re not just talking up our young guy. We’re talk up a great player that would’ve made all defense if he hadn’t missed a couple too many games.

He might not hold “trade value” on this board, it I bet he would hold massive trade value with actual decision makers. I also assume Indy wouldn’t deal him at all.

[Mavrelous]

I think Lively is a much more valuable if healthy, but I understand if someone wants to value less because of injuries, OTOH, Nembhard does nothing for Dallas, he's not a primary on ball guard, which Dallas really need with Kyrie down.

Nembhard is a primary on ball guard. He plays off ball when Haliburton plays lead guard, because, well, it’s Haliburton? But otherwise, he’s absolutely lead guard whenever Tyrese is resting, or whenever Tyrese needs some possessions off during the game.

Nembhard may not be a 25 ppg player, but he’s absolutely a guy that can lead and drive an offense with smart and key play, while putting guys in positions to be successful.

Nembhard is more valuable than Lively, no? I don’t see Indy dealing Nembhard at all, as he’s kind of the perfect long term pairing with Haliburton. But if they did, they wouldn’t pay a 1st with him for a non superstar player.

I really can't imagine that Nembhard is more valuable league wide. He's a really good backup guard and an okay starting guard. Lively is a young center on a rookie contract who is clearly an average starting caliber guy and maybe more as he develops? And as cheap as Nembhard is, he is not rookie scale anymore.

He’s a pretty good starting guard for Indiana so far. While Haliburton makes the offense successful just by himself, Nembhard makes EVERYTHING else successful in Indy. His defense, attitude, big shot making, and yes, primary ball handling ability are the keys to make Indy a tough team. His counting stats may not look impressive, but he’s absolutely a key to this team winning.

I’ve often likened him to Derrick McKey, the glue piece integral to winning for the Pacers in the Reggie era. Detlef Schrempf seemed the much better player by all counting stats, but Indy swapping Detlef for McKey is a key piece to making Indy a winning team in that era.


I totally get that in the abstract Lively is more valuable. He’s a young athletic center that can run and jump and do a bunch of things to help a team. But man, Nembhard is that dude. Hes special in ways that Mathurin or whatever wont be. We’re not just talking up our young guy. We’re talk up a great player that would’ve made all defense if he hadn’t missed a couple too many games.

He might not hold “trade value” on this board, it I bet he would hold massive trade value with actual decision makers. I also assume Indy wouldn’t deal him at all.

We'll agree to disagree, he's not a promary on ball player, he's someone to cover for the primary guy, and I don't think the Pacers even view him as such.

[Scoot McGroot]

I think Lively is a much more valuable if healthy, but I understand if someone wants to value less because of injuries, OTOH, Nembhard does nothing for Dallas, he's not a primary on ball guard, which Dallas really need with Kyrie down.

Nembhard is a primary on ball guard. He plays off ball when Haliburton plays lead guard, because, well, it’s Haliburton? But otherwise, he’s absolutely lead guard whenever Tyrese is resting, or whenever Tyrese needs some possessions off during the game.

Nembhard may not be a 25 ppg player, but he’s absolutely a guy that can lead and drive an offense with smart and key play, while putting guys in positions to be successful.

I really can't imagine that Nembhard is more valuable league wide. He's a really good backup guard and an okay starting guard. Lively is a young center on a rookie contract who is clearly an average starting caliber guy and maybe more as he develops? And as cheap as Nembhard is, he is not rookie scale anymore.

He’s a pretty good starting guard for Indiana so far. While Haliburton makes the offense successful just by himself, Nembhard makes EVERYTHING else successful in Indy. His defense, attitude, big shot making, and yes, primary ball handling ability are the keys to make Indy a tough team. His counting stats may not look impressive, but he’s absolutely a key to this team winning.

I’ve often likened him to Derrick McKey, the glue piece integral to winning for the Pacers in the Reggie era. Detlef Schrempf seemed the much better player by all counting stats, but Indy swapping Detlef for McKey is a key piece to making Indy a winning team in that era.


I totally get that in the abstract Lively is more valuable. He’s a young athletic center that can run and jump and do a bunch of things to help a team. But man, Nembhard is that dude. Hes special in ways that Mathurin or whatever wont be. We’re not just talking up our young guy. We’re talk up a great player that would’ve made all defense if he hadn’t missed a couple too many games.

He might not hold “trade value” on this board, it I bet he would hold massive trade value with actual decision makers. I also assume Indy wouldn’t deal him at all.

We'll agree to disagree, he's not a promary on ball player, he's someone to cover for the primary guy, and I don't think the Pacers even view him as such.

I would guess you have a highly specific definition of “primary on ball player”? Because Indy definitely values him as such. And He’s good enough at it that they don’t just save it for when Tyrese is sitting, but swap possessions while both are together on the court. He’s absolutely a lead ball handler type PG if you need him as such. And he even took over as such in the close of last nights game when Indy needed a bucket to close it out.


Nembhard may not be your cup of tea because he’s more of a defender than a constant bucket getter like Kyrie. But if you want someone to handle the ball, lead a great offense, put guys in top notch position, score when you need him to, and also spearhead a very successful defense, he’s absolutely a lead ball handling guard. Dudes a winner.

[Mavrelous]

Nembhard is a primary on ball guard. He plays off ball when Haliburton plays lead guard, because, well, it’s Haliburton? But otherwise, he’s absolutely lead guard whenever Tyrese is resting, or whenever Tyrese needs some possessions off during the game.

Nembhard may not be a 25 ppg player, but he’s absolutely a guy that can lead and drive an offense with smart and key play, while putting guys in positions to be successful.



He’s a pretty good starting guard for Indiana so far. While Haliburton makes the offense successful just by himself, Nembhard makes EVERYTHING else successful in Indy. His defense, attitude, big shot making, and yes, primary ball handling ability are the keys to make Indy a tough team. His counting stats may not look impressive, but he’s absolutely a key to this team winning.

I’ve often likened him to Derrick McKey, the glue piece integral to winning for the Pacers in the Reggie era. Detlef Schrempf seemed the much better player by all counting stats, but Indy swapping Detlef for McKey is a key piece to making Indy a winning team in that era.


I totally get that in the abstract Lively is more valuable. He’s a young athletic center that can run and jump and do a bunch of things to help a team. But man, Nembhard is that dude. Hes special in ways that Mathurin or whatever wont be. We’re not just talking up our young guy. We’re talk up a great player that would’ve made all defense if he hadn’t missed a couple too many games.

He might not hold “trade value” on this board, it I bet he would hold massive trade value with actual decision makers. I also assume Indy wouldn’t deal him at all.

We'll agree to disagree, he's not a promary on ball player, he's someone to cover for the primary guy, and I don't think the Pacers even view him as such.

I would guess you have a highly specific definition of “primary on ball player”? Because Indy definitely values him as such. And He’s good enough at it that they don’t just save it for when Tyrese is sitting, but swap possessions while both are together on the court. He’s absolutely a lead ball handler type PG if you need him as such. And he even took over as such in the close of last nights game when Indy needed a bucket to close it out.


Nembhard may not be your cup of tea because he’s more of a defender than a constant bucket getter like Kyrie. But if you want someone to handle the ball, lead a great offense, put guys in top notch position, score when you need him to, and also spearhead a very successful defense, he’s absolutely a lead ball handling guard. Dudes a winner.

I don't think they do because they invested in McConnel knowing what they have, on ball player is one who creates mismatches and advantages for his team to attack, Mavs don't have one, and they won't have one of they traded for Nembhard

[Skybox]

I like the certainty of Nembhard over the possibility of Lively (for IND)...IND fans are seeing the beautiful dynamic with Haliburton and should be reluctant to mess with it. Lively, on paper, kills Nembhard - but that's not always how it works out.

Nobody has a lot of money to throw around this summer. IND should be able to keep Turner. This just isn't an era where good Centers break the bank (and shouldn't)...I hope for IND's sake, that Turner recognizes that he's in a good place and his agency is realistic about his $$ value. There is a gigantic gap between Embiid/Jokic and EVERYBODY else.

[Scoot McGroot]

We'll agree to disagree, he's not a promary on ball player, he's someone to cover for the primary guy, and I don't think the Pacers even view him as such.

I would guess you have a highly specific definition of “primary on ball player”? Because Indy definitely values him as such. And He’s good enough at it that they don’t just save it for when Tyrese is sitting, but swap possessions while both are together on the court. He’s absolutely a lead ball handler type PG if you need him as such. And he even took over as such in the close of last nights game when Indy needed a bucket to close it out.


Nembhard may not be your cup of tea because he’s more of a defender than a constant bucket getter like Kyrie. But if you want someone to handle the ball, lead a great offense, put guys in top notch position, score when you need him to, and also spearhead a very successful defense, he’s absolutely a lead ball handling guard. Dudes a winner.

I don't think they do because they invested in McConnel knowing what they have, on ball player is one who creates mismatches and advantages for his team to attack, Mavs don't have one, and they won't have one of they traded for Nembhard

I don’t see how paying good players to stick around are a knock or statement on keeping other good players? Carlisle loves having 3 PG’s on the roster. His first year back in Indy, not having 3 PG’s but him, and with injuries to Brogdon (and McConnell), Indy had a run where they had to play Keifer Sykes major minutes…a player who has never before or ever again garnered any nba interest from anyone else. They had 3 very good PG’s that all could run the exact same offense very well, and they laid to keep them. Seems like a statement on the value of keeping good PG’s rather than saying “well, this one Pg we invested in isn’t really a PG, so we invested in this other PG”.

Even then, Nembhard gets ball handling duties before McConnell every night? And when they’re together, Nembhard is the lead guard….

[Mavrelous]

I don’t see how paying good players to stick around are a knock or statement on keeping other good players? Carlisle loves having 3 PG’s on the roster. His first year back in Indy, not having 3 PG’s but him, and with injuries to Brogdon (and McConnell), Indy had a run where they had to play Keifer Sykes major minutes…a player who has never before or ever again garnered any nba interest from anyone else. They had 3 very good PG’s that all could run the exact same offense very well, and they laid to keep them. Seems like a statement on the value of keeping good PG’s rather than saying “well, this one Pg we invested in isn’t really a PG, so we invested in this other PG”.

Even then, Nembhard gets ball handling duties before McConnell every night? And when they’re together, Nembhard is the lead guard….

I am confident they would rather keep money for a center than sign 3 PGs, the fact they didn't tells me they don't view him as one.

[Scoot McGroot]

I don’t see how paying good players to stick around are a knock or statement on keeping other good players? Carlisle loves having 3 PG’s on the roster. His first year back in Indy, not having 3 PG’s but him, and with injuries to Brogdon (and McConnell), Indy had a run where they had to play Keifer Sykes major minutes…a player who has never before or ever again garnered any nba interest from anyone else. They had 3 very good PG’s that all could run the exact same offense very well, and they laid to keep them. Seems like a statement on the value of keeping good PG’s rather than saying “well, this one Pg we invested in isn’t really a PG, so we invested in this other PG”.

Even then, Nembhard gets ball handling duties before McConnell every night? And when they’re together, Nembhard is the lead guard….

I am confident they would rather keep money for a center than sign 3 PGs, the fact they didn't tells me they don't view him as one.

Teams keep players and move money later all the time. And they play all 3 as PG. I think you’re overthinking the whole “extending McConnell” thing. It doesn’t have to be a statement on the rest of the roster as much as “he’s a good player that is a great vet and we’d like to keep him”.

Extending McConnell could have meant they don’t think Nembhard is a PG, even though they play Nembhard as the PG a ton before and after extending McConnell. Extending McConnell could have meant they didn’t see themselves as needing to save money for Myles, and he’s walking. Or just that they’ll move other money if they have to later. Or extending McConnell could have meant they like to keep good players, so they did. And they’ll continually assess the roster and make appropriate moves as they need.

But Nembhard plays a ton of PG for Indy. He often plays as lead ball handler even when sharing the court with Haliburton. Carlisle often plays 2 PG’s together, as he liked to in Dallas, so having 3 PG’s is pretty necessary, especially when your star Pg in Haliburton has a history of back spasms sidelining him for weeks?

[Texas Chuck]

I mean in Dallas Rick played 3 PG's on the court together on a pretty regular basis, so yeah chalk me up as him not seeing a 3rd PG as a luxury. He is an offense first coach and always will be.

I honestly have no idea which player is more valuable. Lively looked so good and polished as a rookie playing huge games and more than holding his own. He looked to be on a certain trajectory. But this year was wrecked with injuries and we saw no growth in his game. His value has certainly taken a hit from a year ago.

Doesn't mean Dallas should trade him at a lower valuation. I assume they still really believe in him. I really believe in him, other than health.

Feels like both teams would have interest in the other team's guy(if Turner isn't kept), but would want to obtain them differently. We don't have to make up narratives about the other player though.

[Mavrelous]

I don’t see how paying good players to stick around are a knock or statement on keeping other good players? Carlisle loves having 3 PG’s on the roster. His first year back in Indy, not having 3 PG’s but him, and with injuries to Brogdon (and McConnell), Indy had a run where they had to play Keifer Sykes major minutes…a player who has never before or ever again garnered any nba interest from anyone else. They had 3 very good PG’s that all could run the exact same offense very well, and they laid to keep them. Seems like a statement on the value of keeping good PG’s rather than saying “well, this one Pg we invested in isn’t really a PG, so we invested in this other PG”.

Even then, Nembhard gets ball handling duties before McConnell every night? And when they’re together, Nembhard is the lead guard….

I am confident they would rather keep money for a center than sign 3 PGs, the fact they didn't tells me they don't view him as one.

Teams keep players and move money later all the time. And they play all 3 as PG. I think you’re overthinking the whole “extending McConnell” thing. It doesn’t have to be a statement on the rest of the roster as much as “he’s a good player that is a great vet and we’d like to keep him”.

Extending McConnell could have meant they don’t think Nembhard is a PG, even though they play Nembhard as the PG a ton before and after extending McConnell. Extending McConnell could have meant they didn’t see themselves as needing to save money for Myles, and he’s walking. Or just that they’ll move other money if they have to later. Or extending McConnell could have meant they like to keep good players, so they did. And they’ll continually assess the roster and make appropriate moves as they need.

But Nembhard plays a ton of PG for Indy. He often plays as lead ball handler even when sharing the court with Haliburton. Carlisle often plays 2 PG’s together, as he liked to in Dallas, so having 3 PG’s is pretty necessary, especially when your star Pg in Haliburton has a history of back spasms sidelining him for weeks?

Totally disagree here, Indiana is a very cost comsious franchise, the logic of paying to keep good players 3 at same position is something I just don't buy.
The whole premise of this trade is to get cost controled center, if cost control wasn't a need, the trade would be pointless.
Like I said, I just desagree on both accounts
I don't see Nembhard as a good enough to be starting PG, but off ball guard.
I don't think Indy sees him as a PG, but you knkw your team better than me.

[oldncreaky]

I think Lively is a much more valuable if healthy, but I understand if someone wants to value less because of injuries, OTOH, Nembhard does nothing for Dallas, he's not a primary on ball guard, which Dallas really need with Kyrie down.

Nembhard is a primary on ball guard. He plays off ball when Haliburton plays lead guard, because, well, it’s Haliburton? But otherwise, he’s absolutely lead guard whenever Tyrese is resting, or whenever Tyrese needs some possessions off during the game.

Nembhard may not be a 25 ppg player, but he’s absolutely a guy that can lead and drive an offense with smart and key play, while putting guys in positions to be successful.

Nembhard is more valuable than Lively, no? I don’t see Indy dealing Nembhard at all, as he’s kind of the perfect long term pairing with Haliburton. But if they did, they wouldn’t pay a 1st with him for a non superstar player.

I really can't imagine that Nembhard is more valuable league wide. He's a really good backup guard and an okay starting guard. Lively is a young center on a rookie contract who is clearly an average starting caliber guy and maybe more as he develops? And as cheap as Nembhard is, he is not rookie scale anymore.

He’s a pretty good starting guard for Indiana so far. While Haliburton makes the offense successful just by himself, Nembhard makes EVERYTHING else successful in Indy. His defense, attitude, big shot making, and yes, primary ball handling ability are the keys to make Indy a tough team. His counting stats may not look impressive, but he’s absolutely a key to this team winning.

I’ve often likened him to Derrick McKey, the glue piece integral to winning for the Pacers in the Reggie era. Detlef Schrempf seemed the much better player by all counting stats, but Indy swapping Detlef for McKey is a key piece to making Indy a winning team in that era.


I totally get that in the abstract Lively is more valuable. He’s a young athletic center that can run and jump and do a bunch of things to help a team. But man, Nembhard is that dude. Hes special in ways that Mathurin or whatever wont be. We’re not just talking up our young guy. We’re talk up a great player that would’ve made all defense if he hadn’t missed a couple too many games.

He might not hold “trade value” on this board, it I bet he would hold massive trade value with actual decision makers. I also assume Indy wouldn’t deal him at all.

Agree that Nembhard checks a lot of boxes for a player who is not a "star":
- guards the other team's best perimeter player
- can function as the team's fill-in PG
- can create his own shot
- can play off-ball
- doesn't shy away from pressure shots
- locked in on a reasonable contract
For a role player it is really hard to find a player who will fill all those roles for less than 12% of the salary cap

IMO Nembhard and Suggs are ideal second guards to play beside a star PG, and I'd love to have either of them playing beside Cade on DET