GT: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (GAME 3: Thu, 7PM)

[HopelessKnick]

thibs should turn the starting lineup into a thibs team (mitch/towns/og/deuce/brunson) and then let the nova boys spice the bench up

You think Thibs is courageous enough to bench not only Hart but also Bridges? Dude is scared as ****. That's the same guy that plays starters with 1 minute left in a 25-point blowout win because he is scared to lose....the same guy that complained he didn't have his starting Center and then never started him once Mitch returned because he was too scared to bench Hart. You think he'd bench both?

He neither has the courage nor the authority to do it....for all we know he has lost the locker room already...

[spree2kawhi]

think we covered all the important things in the last PG thread.
lets just get this W now.

No one wanted to talk about plus/minus in that thread, but I still agree.

[spree2kawhi]

thibs should turn the starting lineup into a thibs team (mitch/towns/og/deuce/brunson) and then let the nova boys spice the bench up

You think Thibs is courageous enough to bench not only Hart but also Bridges? Dude is scared as ****. That's the same guy that plays starters with 1 minute left in a 25-point blowout win because he is scared to lose....the same guy that complained he didn't have his starting Center and then never started him once Mitch returned because he was too scared to bench Hart. You think he'd bench both?

He neither has the courage nor the authority to do it....for all we know he has lost the locker room already...

Deuce has not played well. It’s beyond me why the coach played Brunson, Deuce and Cam together at times.

[Jeff Van Gully]

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a war dem wan dollarrrrrr

[Jeff Van Gully]

thibs should turn the starting lineup into a thibs team (mitch/towns/og/deuce/brunson) and then let the nova boys spice the bench up

not suggesting Detroit wouldn’t adjust, but the 2 penetrators (brunson, cam) and big frontcourt lineup seemed to give them trouble.

[kNicksGmen]

someone brought up thibs never playing 5 out... i assumed it was more because i felt like we did run an actual 5 out offense a decent amount as the 2nd unit (payne, deuce, shamet + kat and usually 1 of bridges/OG).

so I looked up the numbers on nba.com...

in the playoffs so far we have ran 2 minutes without hart/mitch on the floor (out of 96 so 2%).
in the regular season we ran less than 150 minutes of actual 5 out - out of almost 4000 total minutes

that is under 4%. I thought we traded for Kat to play 5 out?

FIRE THIBS

Assuming it was for 5 out was probably a bad call.

Noah on steroids was prob a better way to look at the role. That’s what Hartenstein was for us and we lost him.

yea i agree with that. somewhat of my point going into the season was to start precious over hart and the pushback was largely because "no, precious kills the spacing and we got Kat to play 5 out". Then when people talked about Mitch starting instead of hart when he got healthy, it was the same thing. same with the idea of deuce starting over hart.

but I agree thibs probably never planned on it nor wanted to. but did the front office? i still believe thibs never wanted Kat. he was probably "ok" with it but he would have probably been better off with an average defensive center and keeping randle over the Kat trade. i don't think the bridges and Kat trades were "thibs" guys so it makes you wonder.

thibs should turn the starting lineup into a thibs team (mitch/towns/og/deuce/brunson) and then let the nova boys spice the bench up

You think Thibs is courageous enough to bench not only Hart but also Bridges? Dude is scared as ****. That's the same guy that plays starters with 1 minute left in a 25-point blowout win because he is scared to lose....the same guy that complained he didn't have his starting Center and then never started him once Mitch returned because he was too scared to bench Hart. You think he'd bench both?

He neither has the courage nor the authority to do it....for all we know he has lost the locker room already...

i said this weeks ago but i could see thibs finally adjusting when the knicks are down 2-1 or 3-1 to start the 2nd half of a game they're down big. that's on brand for him to make the change way too late.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Move di rass hole ball

MOVE.

DI.

RASS.

HOLE.

BALL.

Our defense has been where it should be. If we actually played like a team offensively Detroit would be down 0-2.

Move the ball, get it back. Don't dribble down 15 secs and then make desperation passes to the corner for a rushed and contested shot. Make the defense shift and open up holes.

Detroit was blitzing and covering passing lanes really well. We have to figure out how to keep the ball moving. Not sure it was just as easy as not wanting to.

[3toheadmelo]

Move di rass hole ball

MOVE.

DI.

RASS.

HOLE.

BALL.

Our defense has been where it should be. If we actually played like a team offensively Detroit would be down 0-2.

Move the ball, get it back. Don't dribble down 15 secs and then make desperation passes to the corner for a rushed and contested shot. Make the defense shift and open up holes.

Detroit was blitzing and covering passing lanes really well. We have to figure out how to keep the ball moving. Not sure it was just as easy as not wanting to.

Their defense was really good and it showed how we lack another creator besides Brunson. I know people hate iso basketball but that’s what it comes to in the playoffs. Look what Kawhi did the other night. Straight ISOs in the middy all game long.

[TheGreenArrow]

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[NoDopeOnSundays]

Move di rass hole ball

MOVE.

DI.

RASS.

HOLE.

BALL.

Our defense has been where it should be. If we actually played like a team offensively Detroit would be down 0-2.

Move the ball, get it back. Don't dribble down 15 secs and then make desperation passes to the corner for a rushed and contested shot. Make the defense shift and open up holes.

Detroit was blitzing and covering passing lanes really well. We have to figure out how to keep the ball moving. Not sure it was just as easy as not wanting to.

We have been dealing with bigs on Hart for about 3 months now, and we have not done well with it. That is the elephant in the room, our offense is stagnant not just because we lack a secondary creator but because we lack creativity freeing people up when the opposing big is playing off Hart and helping everywhere else. You never see us screen for the screener, run KAT off pin downs, or do anything to get him easier looks from three, last season Donte would just shoot from 83 feet as part of our offense, which isn't replicable.

The offense went into the mud in Janurary, from Jan to the end of the season we were 16th offensively. The offense is solely dependent on Brunson whether or not he can play like Jordan, and if Hart is going to make threes. Last year Hart made threes and Brunson played like Jordan and we had the 2nd best offense in the playoffs, albeit going against two poor defensive teams. Brunson is more likely to play well, but Hart having Cs on him and not being able to shoot them out of that is a big reason why we're floundering. But, every other year our offense has seen a siginificant drop from regular season to the playoffs, in 2022-23 we were 4th offensively in the regular season and 13 out of 16 in the playoffs, we went from 117 ORTG to 107 ORTG.

[Iron Mantis]

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KAT not not "demanding the ball" and his "lack of aggression" on offense was KAT executing exactly what the coach told him to do and what not to do.

KAT not getting up enough shots is an indictment against the coach ...not the player....Unless you want him rebelling against the coach and hijacking the offense.

Bottom line: Knicks need a new coach.

[Jeff Van Gully]

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KAT not not "demanding the ball" and his "lack of aggression" on offense was KAT executing exactly what the coach told him to do and what not to do.

KAT not getting up enough shots is an indictment against the coach ...not the player....Unless you want him rebelling against the coach and hijacking the offense.

Bottom line: Knicks need a new coach.

That’s really your basketball takeaway from the coach asking a player not to take bad shots through double and triple teams?

Because 2-17 with 20 transition points off those misses would def be “an indictment against the coach.”

[god shammgod]

there is no hijacking the offense. it's read and react mostly. it's up to the players to decide what to do based on what the defense gives them. nobody is stopping kat from doing anything. except the pistons who double and tripled teamed him in quarter 3 which went bad for him. after that he stopped trying.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

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KAT not not "demanding the ball" and his "lack of aggression" on offense was KAT executing exactly what the coach told him to do and what not to do.

KAT not getting up enough shots is an indictment against the coach ...not the player....Unless you want him rebelling against the coach and hijacking the offense.

Bottom line: Knicks need a new coach.

In the 2018 playoffs, he played TAJ and Kat together, he kept trying to post up KAT even though the Rockets were helping off Taj. The Rockets ended up spamming threes, made 75 of them to the Wolves 45. The dummy kept playing Taj and KAT on the floor together even though it wasn't working, and the funniest thing is there's a clip of Webber saying

"Houston want's layups or threes, they won't respect Minnesota when you know they wont shoot threes"

I am not lying, I will find the clip again.

[K_ick_God]

[K_ick_God]

This is circular reasoning. People can double and triple Karl, proving our system isn't the problem. But the system, or poor judgement, makes it easier to double and triple Karl.

[K_ick_God]

there is no hijacking the offense. it's read and react mostly. it's up to the players to decide what to do based on what the defense gives them. nobody is stopping kat from doing anything. except the pistons who double and tripled teamed him in quarter 3 which went bad for him. after that he stopped trying.

The Pistons are doing more than reading and reacting, no? They're moving in certain ways, ball and player, that they've practiced.

[K_ick_God]

What Thibs is saying is he would rather JB force bad shots than Karl. That's the essential takeaway.

[Jeff Van Gully]

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KAT not not "demanding the ball" and his "lack of aggression" on offense was KAT executing exactly what the coach told him to do and what not to do.

KAT not getting up enough shots is an indictment against the coach ...not the player....Unless you want him rebelling against the coach and hijacking the offense.

Bottom line: Knicks need a new coach.

In the 2018 playoffs, he played TAJ and Kat together, he kept trying to post up KAT even though the Rockets were helping off Taj. The Rockets ended up spamming threes, made 75 of them to the Wolves 45. The dummy kept playing Taj and KAT on the floor together even though it wasn't working, and the funniest thing is there's a clip of Webber saying

"Houston want's layups or threes, they won't respect Minnesota when you know they wont shoot threes"

I am not lying, I will find the clip again.

Thibs def asks the players to take more threes. I’ve heard him speak on it this season several times.

But I don’t see changes to make those increase in shots a reality. As discussed, if they can’t or won’t do what he’s asking then it’s not going to work. Coaching is accountable for that.

[Fury]

PG: Brunson
SG: Payne
SF: McBride
PF: OG
C: Towns