GT: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (GAME 3: Thu, 7PM)

[Wildcat]

Agreed. I LOL every time an opposing player attempts to shoot a three over Mitch. Josh is good at extending leads (when we can run a team off the court) but in a dogfight I would trust Mitch more.

Bench needs a player like Hart. That's what championship teams need. The more I think about it, the more pissed I get that Josh isn't taking it upon himself to say, "You know what, Thibs? Put me on the bench. They need me more."

Other than the time he took it upon himself to suggest going back to the bench?

Josh Hart suggested Friday night that a move back to the second unit could help him rediscover his do-it-all role, which he claims to presently have “no idea” what it is after starting four of the revamped Knicks’ five preseason games.

If Hart were to shift back to the bench — and there has been no indication from Tom Thibodeau that such a move is under consideration — the Knicks would have a couple of options to replace him in an overhauled starting five that features two new players in Karl-Anthony Towns and Mikal Bridges, along with returning point guard Jalen Brunson and two-way forward OG Anunoby.

https://nypost.com/2024/10/19/sports/knicks-ripe-for-choice-if-lost-josh-hart-lands-on-second-unit/

“I’m lost. I have no idea,” Hart said. “There’s a couple days before we have until Boston. So whether that’s trying to get a rhythm with that starting unit or we give somebody else a look and my role changes and comes off the bench and go with that unit. So just trying to figure out right now I pretty much have no idea. But we’ll see what happens in Boston (in the season opener Tuesday).”

Does that sound like someone asking to be put on the bench or someone who has no idea what his role is 2 weeks into the season? I'm going with the latter. And speaking out loud and telling Thibs put me on the bench aren't the same.

[Adelheid]

Josh's minutes needs to be cut. Mitch needs to play at least 22 mins with KAT.

Agreed. I LOL every time an opposing player attempts to shoot a three over Mitch. Josh is good at extending leads (when we can run a team off the court) but in a dogfight I would trust Mitch more.

Bench needs a player like Hart. That's what championship teams need. The more I think about it, the more pissed I get that Josh isn't taking it upon himself to say, "You know what, Thibs? Put me on the bench. They need me more."

sacrifice is in short supply unfortunately

[GONYK]

Agreed. I LOL every time an opposing player attempts to shoot a three over Mitch. Josh is good at extending leads (when we can run a team off the court) but in a dogfight I would trust Mitch more.

Bench needs a player like Hart. That's what championship teams need. The more I think about it, the more pissed I get that Josh isn't taking it upon himself to say, "You know what, Thibs? Put me on the bench. They need me more."

sacrifice is in short supply unfortunately

It's not sacrifice, it is spacing. Josh basically has to play with KAT, otherwise we'll be putting 2 non-shooters on the floor at all times and Payne and Deuce are not good enough playmakers off the bench to compensate.

[Wildcat]

Bench needs a player like Hart. That's what championship teams need. The more I think about it, the more pissed I get that Josh isn't taking it upon himself to say, "You know what, Thibs? Put me on the bench. They need me more."

sacrifice is in short supply unfortunately

It's not sacrifice, it is spacing. Josh basically has to play with KAT, otherwise we'll be putting 2 non-shooters on the floor at all times and Payne and Deuce are not good enough playmakers off the bench to compensate.

Spacing for the starters or bench? I don't prescribe to the notion there's only one way to win a game. And Josh is basically treated like a non-shooter.

[GONYK]

sacrifice is in short supply unfortunately

It's not sacrifice, it is spacing. Josh basically has to play with KAT, otherwise we'll be putting 2 non-shooters on the floor at all times and Payne and Deuce are not good enough playmakers off the bench to compensate.

Spacing for the starters or bench? I don't prescribe to the notion there's only one way to win a game. And Josh is basically treated like a non-shooter.

Either. Josh is essentially the 5 with the starters. He's guarded by the 5 and the rest can shoot.

Off the bench, its more likely his minutes overlap with Mitch, which now makes the spacing issue even worse. Our offense fell off a cliff whenever a non-shooter like Josh or Precious shared the floor with Mitch.

If you start Deuce or Shamet over Josh, you get smaller in the starting 5 and lose rebounding, transition offense and switchable defense. What you gain is making the 5 guard KAT and all that opens up.

It's not simple and neither option is perfect, especially when you consider that Detroit is already killing us on the boards.

The other move is starting Mitch next to KAT, but then you didn't solve the spacing issue at all.

[TheGreenArrow]

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[Reign23]

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nice to hear that from Brunson. Hart has said that **** about complaining to the refs about 20 times this season, tho.

[MrDollarBills]

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Glad to hear this. Move the ball, use your gravity to open things up for everyone else. Then, in the 4th, do your thing.

[Jalen Bluntson]

It's not sacrifice, it is spacing. Josh basically has to play with KAT, otherwise we'll be putting 2 non-shooters on the floor at all times and Payne and Deuce are not good enough playmakers off the bench to compensate.

Spacing for the starters or bench? I don't prescribe to the notion there's only one way to win a game. And Josh is basically treated like a non-shooter.

Either. Josh is essentially the 5 with the starters. He's guarded by the 5 and the rest can shoot.

Off the bench, its more likely his minutes overlap with Mitch, which now makes the spacing issue even worse. Our offense fell off a cliff whenever a non-shooter like Josh or Precious shared the floor with Mitch.

If you start Deuce or Shamet over Josh, you get smaller in the starting 5 and lose rebounding, transition offense and switchable defense. What you gain is making the 5 guard KAT and all that opens up.

It's not simple and neither option is perfect, especially when you consider that Detroit is already killing us on the boards.

The other move is starting Mitch next to KAT, but then you didn't solve the spacing issue at all.

Mitch next to KAT works. You just gotta involve Mitch in the pick and roll more to keep the defense honest. He doesn't have to camp out under the basket at all times. He can come out and set screens. He is a lob threat that we never use.

That pushes Hart to the bench and makes more sense as a starting unit because Mitch will replace the rebounds Hart gets while protecting the rim as well. It would also be as close to last year's identity as we could get for the people who still pine for the glory month.

[3toheadmelo]

Brunson fell into the trap of reading comments online about him. We’re about to have a bunch of mikal and hart ISOs now.

[Wildcat]

It's not sacrifice, it is spacing. Josh basically has to play with KAT, otherwise we'll be putting 2 non-shooters on the floor at all times and Payne and Deuce are not good enough playmakers off the bench to compensate.

Spacing for the starters or bench? I don't prescribe to the notion there's only one way to win a game. And Josh is basically treated like a non-shooter.

Either. Josh is essentially the 5 with the starters. He's guarded by the 5 and the rest can shoot.

Off the bench, its more likely his minutes overlap with Mitch, which now makes the spacing issue even worse. Our offense fell off a cliff whenever a non-shooter like Josh or Precious shared the floor with Mitch.

If you start Deuce or Shamet over Josh, you get smaller in the starting 5 and lose rebounding, transition offense and switchable defense. What you gain is making the 5 guard KAT and all that opens up.

It's not simple and neither option is perfect, especially when you consider that Detroit is already killing us on the boards.

The other move is starting Mitch next to KAT, but then you didn't solve the spacing issue at all.

Oh, it has to be Mitch/KAT in the starting unit. Deuce ain't the answer. Shamet ain't the answer. This team ain't doing zero with this spacing we were promised. Rather go back to a formula more methodical.

[Gravy]

The last 5 minutes are Donovan Mitchell iso with one Garland iso and a Struss airball(he must be their Hart). Mobley and Allen were standing around and literally did not touch the ball once

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Every single time, the Cavs crossed half court with 18 or more seconds on the clock to run offense. Every single time, Donovan got the pick, made a decisive move and put up the shot. Three different players took turns to bring the ball up so Mitchell conserved energy.

One guy did not hold the ball the entire possession on multiple possessions. It whipped around to two, three guys, keeping the defense honest, Mitchell got the pick and went to work RIGHT AWAY. He didn't just iso, he used picks, and he didn't just use the pick to get the mismatch he wanted to iso his defender to death, he used the pick to get space to make his drives. The pick setter followed to get a chance at offensive rebounds, because again, he was involved in the play, he wasn't relegated to moving out the way and stand around for his pg to dribble the ball for ten seconds.

Not once did he waste energy getting pressed full court, bumping into his defender every single dribble to draw a foul. Not once did he waste the entire shot clock trying to make a move, get nothing, pass the ball back to the perimeter only to get it back again to run the same **** all over again only this time with the clock dwindling down.

Nobody is asking our guys to play like the **** Warriors, we are asking where does this coach get his game logic from. How does a guy who saved your ass in the first game play only 4 minutes the second game. How are you getting out rebounded all game but continue to play a small ball lineup when nobody is shooting well, with a brick layer shoe horned in there making it tough to run your own offense. That little guy who isn't shooting or rebounding, how about we replace him with a 7 foot guy who can at least give you the one thing you need NOW. We are down three with ball in hand, how about putting Duece in the game....oh no, we might need Josh Hart's effort. We haven't scored in a while, call timeout, out of the timeout, Precious gets a three.

Again, logic...does this **** have it? You want us to give you a coach...first explain his decisions.

Everybody runs isos in the playoffs at crunch time....but they don't make it so **** obvious as we do. When Brunson gives up the ball, he HAS to get it back. Who is telling him to try something else because with 8 seconds to go, the defense knows wtf you're going to do. Go ahead, do your iso, but your second and third options shouldn't also be the same iso from the SAME **** PLAYER. How many times did someone get the ball after Brunson had nothing, and hold it waiting for Brunson to come get it back?? All game. Did you see Mitchell in that clip you posted doing that?

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Every single time, the Cavs crossed half court with 18 or more seconds on the clock to run offense.

The very first Cavs possession Garland starts his move with 12 seconds before he isos into a wild spin and miss, most of the times the offense is run with 12 seconds or less on the clock. At 1:05 on the game clock Garland crosses half court with 16 on the shot clock barely beating the 8 sec violation and they begin their offense with 8 seconds left resulting in a wild Mitchell miss.

Not once did he waste the entire shot clock trying to make a move, get nothing, pass the ball back to the perimeter only to get it back again to run the same **** all over again only this time with the clock dwindling down.

This happened at 1:23 on the game clock, Struss airball with 4 seconds left

Brunson usually gets the ball back because nobody else can get their shot up in crunch time especially against a great defensive team like the Pistons. KAT had SIX games last playoffs where he scored 15 pts or less. This is who he is.

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[Ravenxvirall]

Almost feels like a must win game, hope we don’t go out and lay a turd on the court

[thebuzzardman]

so to sum things up on here

Thibs is awful
Brunson doesnt pass
Kat sucks and Randle was better
Bridges should be an 8th man
McBride is small
OG is old and slow
Mitch cant play D anymore
Shamet cant shoot
Payne Dances to much
Leon is an idiot
Dolan is an awful owner
Chopped Cheese is no good

Wait, was this put in to see if people read the whole list?!?!

[thebuzzardman]

mikal was overrated in every way and josh probably shouldn't be starting with his offensive limitations in the first place. but who else is there to start ? duece is too small. you wanna start landry shamet ?

and i don't know if you could even get, and afford, to have 3 og level defenders would it be enough to make you good defensively.

but even besides that, i really don't think that jalen and kat are gonna be a good enough offensive tandem to win it all with their defensive limitations. neither one is top 5 player. you would need an mvp level talent to overcome that. kat is a good offensive player but good enough to win it all with alongside brunson ? i don't think so. the knicks needed to hold out for someone better. and if they never came, at least you have all your picks and can pivot in a couple years.

Brunson/Mikal/OG/KAT/MITCH sending Hart to the bench.

I would think you would be all about that lineup.

i think he will do that eventually. coaches just don't rush these things.

All those prior words and it just turned out to be Mitch support in the end. Figures.

[Gravy]

If we can ask Thibs to coach better then we can ask KAT to be more aggressive and the rest of the team to hit shots when they are open

[thebuzzardman]

Sacrificed himself. Blowout win

Damn, what did he do? Feel like you have to try really hard to get banned from X these days

Last I saw of him a few days before this he was fighting Thibs haters lol. Not sure if that is was got him.

I never had Elon Musk as a Thibs supporter but you learn something new everyday

[JayTWill]

Bench needs a player like Hart. That's what championship teams need. The more I think about it, the more pissed I get that Josh isn't taking it upon himself to say, "You know what, Thibs? Put me on the bench. They need me more."

sacrifice is in short supply unfortunately

It's not sacrifice, it is spacing. Josh basically has to play with KAT, otherwise we'll be putting 2 non-shooters on the floor at all times and Payne and Deuce are not good enough playmakers off the bench to compensate.

I agree that pairing KAT with Hart helps to alleviate some of the spacing issues but Hart plays so many minutes that he essentially plays in all lineups with or without KAT. KAT played 33 minutes in game 2. Hart played 40 minutes. Thibs doesn't even always keep them paired together.

Hart played 18 minutes in the first half. 8 of them were with Mitch on the court without KAT and then Hart played almost the entire 2nd half with Mitch only playing 6 minutes. Thibs chooses to play Hart no matter what. Maybe he is more concerned with rebounding instead of spacing although Hart wasn't exactly dominating the glass last game.

[thebuzzardman]

Damn, what did he do? Feel like you have to try really hard to get banned from X these days

Last I saw of him a few days before this he was fighting Thibs haters lol. Not sure if that is was got him.

Isn't that the guy who threatened to give Wingo a Colombian necktie?

Fun story: Was banned from a Jets forum (different user name)

[3toheadmelo]

If we can ask Thibs to coach better then we can ask KAT to be more aggressive and the rest of the team to hit shots when they are open

It’s funny cause people used to get on Thibs for not holding a certain ex Knick accountable but now that he’s gone, they don’t care about holding players accountable anymore