RGM GOAT Debate Thread (Part 2)

[Jta444]

Bill Russell accomplished more in 13 seasons than Michael Jordan (15 seasons), Jerry West (14 seasons) and Dwyane Wade (16 seasons) combined.

- 11 rings
- 5 MVPs

vs

- 10 rings
- 5 MVPs

Ah the classic Bill Russell/Robert Horry argument lol

Doesn’t change the fact Mike still accomplished more than Lebron in less time. Checkmate.

[DOT]

Sounds like Michael Jordan is a media-driven fake superstar propped up by being given fake accolades.

[The Master]

Doesn’t change the fact Mike still accomplished more than Lebron in less time. Checkmate.

Doesn't change the fact Bill still accomplished more than Jordan in less time. Checkmate.

[Jta444]

Doesn’t change the fact Mike still accomplished more than Lebron in less time. Checkmate.

Doesn't change the fact Bill still accomplished more than Jordan in less time. Checkmate.

I agree

1) Bill
2) MJ
3) Duncan
4) Lebron

[LuDux1]

Doesn’t change the fact Mike still accomplished more than Lebron in less time. Checkmate.

Doesn't change the fact Bill still accomplished more than Jordan in less time. Checkmate.

I agree

1) Bill
2) MJ
3) Duncan
4) Lebron

1) Bill
2) MJ
3) Horry
3) Duncan
4) Lebron

[Jta444]

Doesn't change the fact Bill still accomplished more than Jordan in less time. Checkmate.

I agree

1) Bill
2) MJ
3) Duncan
4) Lebron

1) Bill
2) MJ
3) Horry
3) Duncan
4) Lebron

I agree, Horry is definitely more clutch than Lebron ever was. And if we do pound for pound rankings I’ll have the same list but include Barea over Lebron.

[Patches Perry]

Doesn't change the fact Bill still accomplished more than Jordan in less time. Checkmate.

I agree

1) Bill
2) MJ
3) Duncan
4) Lebron

1) Bill
2) MJ
3) Horry
3) Duncan
4) Lebron

Where's Kareem? 6 titles and 6 MVPs.

1) Russell
2) Kareem
3) Horry
4) Steve Kerr
5) Delonte West

[sp6r=underrated]

Michael Jordan in 11 full seasons with Chicago Bulls:

- 6 Rings
- 5 MVPs
- 6 Finals MVPs
- 10x Scoring Champ
- 9x All-Defensive 1st Team
- DPOY

LeBron James (22 NBA seasons) & Kevin Durant (17 NBA seasons) combined:

- 6 Rings
- 5 MVPs
- 6 Finals MVPs
- 5x Scoring Champ
- 5x All-Defensive 1st Team

Jordan's fans stubborn refusal to accept Lebron career was superior is pathetic and I come from the Jordan generation. At this point it is entirerly based on rings/ppg. The rings argument is especially pathetic because if you apply it consistently Russell annihiliated Jordan.

Stop living in the past.

[Drygon]

Doesn’t change the fact Mike still accomplished more than Lebron in less time. Checkmate.

Doesn't change the fact Bill still accomplished more than Jordan in less time. Checkmate.

Bill Russell played in an era of just 8 teams and wasn't a 2-way player like MJ lol.

[WestbrookGOATed]

Meanwhile, LeBron finally surpassed Jordan in GOAT rankings in Hoopshype and I expect every legitimate sports site to follow suit soon. Now it's up to MJ to take back his throne from LeBron.. oh wait he retired 22 years ago there's nothing he can do about it while LeBron still playing this postseason.

Read on Twitter

MJ lost his throne because "hoopshype" put LeBron ahead of him?

[Drygon]

All these media sites need to stir up controversy to get more traffic so they have to stir the pot and list Lebron higher than Mike.

But imo it just doesn’t feel right to have Lebron over Mike even Lebron’s own friends and circle rolled their eyes when Lebron said it to them in that show he did.

Mike just has that greatness aura better than LBJ.

And as in boxing and MMA the challenger needs to do more than enough to supplant the current champ in this case Mike. And I just don’t think Lebron has convincingly done it. There’s too many holes. Maybe if he won in 2011, then it really is 50/50.

Anyone who says Lebron is just victim of recency bias and ofc with every new generation Mike will be more forgotten and it’s Lebron who will be remembered more.

There's loads of highlights videos in HD-quality about Jordan dominating teams. Mike won't be forgotten, I can assure you that.

MJ is still the benchmark for the likes of Wemby and Luka to surpass if they wanna become the GOAT.

[Jamaaliver]

I have never watched an entire Wilt game in my NBA fandom.

But he was the clear answer for GOAT up until the creation of the 3-pt line, right?

Read on Twitter

[Jamaaliver]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

[Bucketz_McGee]

I have been saying this since Lebron played more games than MJ, the benchmark for greatness is 1,072. Every single MJ stat we compare to Lebron was achieved in almost 500 less games. 274 less games than Kobe. Lebron did not achieve that benchmark. Kobe did not achieve that benchmark. The only player to meet and possibly exceed that benchmark was Wilt. But that has to be taken with a grain a salt and an asterisk because blocks and steals were not officially tracked by the NBA until after Wilt retired.

The benchmark for the GOAT is 1,072 games.

[The Master]

Bill Russell played in an era of just 8 teams and wasn't a 2-way player like MJ lol.

Eureka! There's more to players evaluation than rings and accolades! You can win less and yet be better! And posting well-known, cherry-picked facts as some trivia is just pushing a narrative! And unfortunately not pushing a quality discourse ahead by any means.

[prolific passer]

Durant is probably happy just to be there.

[NBA_is_cringe]

statements like these cement the idea that jordan is overrated. his fans are insecure and have arguments a 5 year old could debunk. the fact that you would compare Kowardly Dork to either of these people emphasizes the overall stupidity

[sp6r=underrated]

I have been saying this since Lebron played more games than MJ, the benchmark for greatness is 1,072. Every single MJ stat we compare to Lebron was achieved in almost 500 less games. 274 less games than Kobe. Lebron did not achieve that benchmark. Kobe did not achieve that benchmark. The only player to meet and possibly exceed that benchmark was Wilt. But that has to be taken with a grain a salt and an asterisk because blocks and steals were not officially tracked by the NBA until after Wilt retired.

The benchmark for the GOAT is 1,072 games.

Having a short career hurts not helps in GOAT discussions.

[Bucketz_McGee]

Not when what was achieved in the less time is better/greater than that of a longer career. MJ achieved far more in his shorter career than Kobe, Kareem, or Lebron.

Do not forget that basketball has 2 sides and MJ was a master at both.

[Jta444]

I have been saying this since Lebron played more games than MJ, the benchmark for greatness is 1,072. Every single MJ stat we compare to Lebron was achieved in almost 500 less games. 274 less games than Kobe. Lebron did not achieve that benchmark. Kobe did not achieve that benchmark. The only player to meet and possibly exceed that benchmark was Wilt. But that has to be taken with a grain a salt and an asterisk because blocks and steals were not officially tracked by the NBA until after Wilt retired.

The benchmark for the GOAT is 1,072 games.

Having a short career hurts not helps in GOAT discussions.

Yeah but you could make the argument that Mike wasn’t anymore motivated to have a longer career because he wasn’t chasing nobody. He was crowned GOAT by most as early as his 1st three-peat which was the first time in the modern era. It was even more amazing he did another 3peat on top of that.

Compare that to Lebron who admitted he is “chasing the ghost of Jordan”. He has the benefit of having to chase from behind knowing where Jordan stands and having the motivation to keep going. And no wonder he keeps on going because his GOAT status relies more on longevity and career stats.

But IMO since when did we apply much weight towards longevity and career stats to GOAT debates? Mike surpassed Kareem in many eyes already and Kareem was the original king of longevity and stats.