Can we stop pretending like old school NBA playoff games are more physical than they are now?

[HotelVitale]

Also do you really think that in the like 150 seconds between my two posts I found the perfect video for my point, or had one stashed just in case Phil Blackson was ready to make this claim?

In your case the answer is a resounding YES

I'm just trying to imagine a game with Hakeem, Malone, Eaton, and Sampson is going to be an example of a low physicality playoff game...i haven't watched it but there's just zero chances that was a sherry picked game.

I was watching it a second ago and it is interesting to watch how good those guys are at protecting the rim in the more crowded half court (and getting orebs on the other end, which was a much more important part of the game back then). But they're just not doing it very 'physically.' They're following the old advice of keeping the guards at arm's length and away from your body to avoid fouling. Mirroring the guards and timing their contest.

But yeah it is harder to get up some shots in the lane just because there's less space and less of a runaway to avoid those super long shotblockers.

[CLosP]

It’s funny Boston crying about Orlando’s physicality. They would’ve hated Mason, Oakley, Ewing.

[Ainosterhaspie]

The "it used to be so much more physical" side is so terrified of old video, they immediately default to "cherry-picked" before even watching.

[Lala870]

The "it used to be so much more physical" side is so terrified of old video, they immediately default to "cherry-picked" before even watching.

Are you the guy who made a thread regarding which coach has the worst facial expressions on the sideline?

And they say im a troll. Damn

[ScrantonBulls]

The Explorer logic: look for literally two sentences that kind of half confirm what you think if you're not really paying attention to them, and roll them out every time this topic comes up as if they win you the argument on their own.

There's so many reasons not to take this quote as confirmation that the NBA manipulated the game to make it less defense-y or whatever:
-there were MANY great small players in the 90s and 2000s, from KJ to AI to Mark Price to Stockton to IT
-you can watch a couple minutes of tape of a game from the early 2000s and see what he's really talking about--the paint was packed with bodies because the game was all played from like 17 feet in, and the pace was so slow at that point after defenses had fully moved to shutting down the transition and fast pace of the 80s. So yes it's more 'physical' in the sense that bodies are clustered together, but it's not like guards were getting pounded or punished or anything when they entered the paint; that's just a fantasy that relies mostly on like 3 clips of the Bad Boy Pistons
-guards and wings get injured way way more now than they did in the 90s-2000s
-the actual story of why the game sped up and efficiency increased is 100% about a change in offensive philosophy based on shooting lots of 3s to create spacing, and using picks to create initial gaps for the ballhandler within that spacing; there's simply no rule at all that changed from the 90s forward that made that more possible--Silver might've been happy that happened but he didn't manipulate the game so it did. The game evolved and shifted to that because it's a better strategy than the post-ups and mid-range shots that utterly dominated the 2000s game (I don't really like Mike D'Antoni but give him credit if you gotta give it to someone)

Also Silver's also doing what you're supposed to do in conversations for media--act sympathetic to the audience and validate them, don't see anything that contradicts your talking pts but say 'yeah you're right and I hear you' and avoid getting into arguments. That's just basic media training, and Silver sticks to it for the most part. One of the reasons he's so dry and dull as a comish.

Also also--I say this every time this topic comes up, but all the evidence we need to talk about this is right there on youtube. Pull up some random game from 2002 or whenever you think the NBA used to 'bang' little guys and 'knock them to the ground' to the point they were run off court Show us why it's because of that--and not the fact that for no good reason people just didn't shoot 3s or use picks very much--that little guys couldn't play.

Well said. Fact is, literally none of them will bother trying to watch old tape on YouTube in order to validate what they are saying. I don't know if it's laziness, if they don't want to be wrong about their precious nostalgic basketball, or if it's plain dishonesty and they know the truth but don't want to acknowledge it.

None of them can provide evidence. They won't even watch the videos other people posted here showing that the defense in the previous eras wasn't a slugfest like they so often claim. They don't want to be wrong about their favorite eras of basketball.

Eh, I don't even think there's nothing to their position--the game in the late 90s and early 2000s was indeed much slower and focused much more on post-ups in a crowded lane than before or after. It's not wrong to find some reasons to say it was harder to be a little guy then, or to think through what a guy like Curry would do if transported to 1996 or whatever. Just annoyed by the complete lack of interest in being accurate or subtle or allowing for any kind of grey area, people just want to have a simple take that fits their values. Which I guess is that men were men in the past and now everyone's lazy and pampered.

I am also a little annoyed that we've seen some really good defensive performances in the last couple weeks this PO, and some really really good games in general. I honestly don't know what people think games in like 1999 were like but they just weren't inherently better or more exciting competition than much of what we're seeing now. Not trying to cheerlead for the NBA but it's been pretty impressive.

I agree there may have been more physicality down low strictly due to the amount of post play. With the late 90s and early 2000s being obviously more physical than the 80s and early 90s. But you still see a ton of physicality down low today. In previous eras ballhandlers were basically untouched until they got a couple feet within the 3 point line. Watch the playoffs today and you'll see on-ball and off-ball players getting hand checked and bodied up outside of the 3 point line.

Today's era is easily more physical than the 80s and early 90s. I put it above the late 90s and 2000s top strictly because of the physicality we see on the perimeter now a days. Steph gets mauled with or without the ball when he is within 5 feet of the 3 point line.

[The Explorer]

Imagine coming to this conclusion after seeing former players and fans of the previous era constantly crying about the current era Johnny Bball logic right there.

ScrantonBulls logic: ignore the commissioner of the NBA literally saying the game was too physical back then, so he got the rules changed.

Speaking to former player Kevin Garnett on his show Certified, league commissioner Adam Silver said he believed the game became “too physical” in the later part of the decade and it wasn’t aesthetically pleasing.

“It de-emphasized the particular skill a player had and maybe weighed too heavily on physicality,” Silver said, “where a big, strong player could come in and prevent an incredibly skilled player from doing those kinds of things.

“I think of — not that he’s a small guy — but a smaller player like Steph Curry, (what he) can do on the floor. I think that when you think of some of his ability to shoot, his ability to move through the paint, that if guys could just bang him and knock him to the ground — as that was once the case in the league — I don’t think that would be a better brand of basketball.”

NBA fans: "Adam Silver is wrong about everything and is ruining the game!"
Also NBA fans: "Look what Adam Silver said. It has to be true if he said it!"

Nice deflection. You keep ignoring what the commissioner said because you know you are BSing.

[Bush4Ever]

Oldheads who champion the "old=tough, new=weak" narrative do so because they are weak and soft in their personal lives, likely had a very easy and cushioned life, and want to establish some kind of connection to something tough and physical to psychologically protect themselves from that fact.

When you understand the "old = better" narratives are a psychological reaction to unhappy and unfulfilled lives in the present (from certain oldheads), a number of these narratives become more easily understood.

[BadMofoPimp]

The NBA is fluff now compared to 20-30 years ago. You breathe on a player half the time and fouls are called whereas they played through that crap back in the day.

[liquidswords]

The NBA is fluff now compared to 20-30 years ago. You breathe on a player half the time and fouls are called whereas they played through that crap back in the day.

Are you watching these playoffs at all???? The physicality is so noticeable unless you are a nostalgic glazer.

Also, do we need to post that one video where Jordan was brushed off the dribble like 10 times and fouls were called every single time?

[TheGOATWill]

So, it’s more likely that let’s say Reggie Miller is imagining what he lived through compared to what he currently covers? That seems reasonable.

[ScrantonBulls]

So, it’s more likely that let’s say Reggie Miller is imagining what he lived through compared to what he currently covers? That seems reasonable.

Or we can watch some tape, use our own eyes and brains and come to a conclusion by ourselves, instead of taking the word of somebody who is trying to hype up their own career and era. Crazy concept I know.

[Ainosterhaspie]

So, it’s more likely that let’s say Reggie Miller is imagining what he lived through compared to what he currently covers? That seems reasonable.

We can watch video of Miller's games and we can watch video of modern games. We don't have to rely on his memories.

[BadMofoPimp]

The NBA is fluff now compared to 20-30 years ago. You breathe on a player half the time and fouls are called whereas they played through that crap back in the day.

Are you watching these playoffs at all???? The physicality is so noticeable unless you are a nostalgic glazer.

Also, do we need to post that one video where Jordan was brushed off the dribble like 10 times and fouls were called every single time?

Yes, I watched the playoff games thus far while sure there is a great deal of physical play like in the past, but also there are a ton of fouls called where there either was no foul or the player was only breathed upon. It is getting ridiculous at times how bad the officials call fouls when there is barely contact. That is not physical gameplay to me. That stops the momentum of the game in my opinion.

Naturally, Playoff basketball is always more physical than regular season, but the amount of foul calls when no call was needed is ridiculous. Let the damn players play. Especially, I have seen Flagrant Fouls called when players were barely touched! That isn't physical gameplay to me.

I take it you didn't witness first hand basketball in the 90's, only youtube videos. I am all about the modern NBA as I enjoy it moreso in most aspects, but not when it comes to the physicality, flopping and ref favoritism to all star players.

The difference between now and back then is much less flopping, much less crying about fouls when not fouled with players playing Through contact in the past.

[Ice Man]

We can watch video of Miller's games and we can watch video of modern games. We don't have to rely on his memories.

Yeah, you'd think in the Internet age that people would stop taking people's claims for granted and check out the evidence directly, since it's so easy to obtain. But most don't.

[HotelVitale]

So, it’s more likely that let’s say Reggie Miller is imagining what he lived through compared to what he currently covers? That seems reasonable.

There's lots of reasons not to take these type comments as authoritative statements. It's literally Reggie;s job to keep conversation going and start little discussions about the NBA so it makes sense he's going to turn his filter off when something comes to mind. It definitely doesn't mean he has a well thought-out and verified opinion on the matter. Plus he's obviously not in the trenches now so he doesn't see and experience the same moments when things get real/intense, probably every athlete ever has stuff like 'you don't even know, ish was wild...' about certain things he or she experienced.

The biggest thing is probably the usual selective memory stuff. There were probably a handful of moments where Reggie got mugged by defenses, but then 99.5% of the time that didn't happen because it was the non-memorable norm. That's fine, it's what people do and how memories work, but what we're actually talking here about is the non-memorable normal, the way things generally are.

Also there are differences in the game now vs then, he's probably not wrong that some things are easier now and some things harder then. But again he's not seeing the flipside there because he doesn't experience it, and our job/topic here is to see what the overall balance is.

This applies to most ex-players talking off the cuff, and again it doens't mean they're wrong. Just means they're never going to be the only thing you need to look at or think about in finding your own take on the topic.

[Ice Man]

Yes, I watched the playoff games thus far while sure there is a great deal of physical play like in the past, but also there are a ton of fouls called where there either was no foul or the player was only breathed upon.

You seem to be implying that there are more fouls called in the playoffs today than during the Nineties, but actually the opposite is true. They called more fouls back then, and awarded more FTs.

[Ainosterhaspie]

The NBA is fluff now compared to 20-30 years ago. You breathe on a player half the time and fouls are called whereas they played through that crap back in the day.

Are we watch8ng the same playoffs?

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[Capn'O]

When people say the 90s were physical they mean the Knicks were And even with that it was mostly Oakley and Mason.

I love the way these playoffs are being called. No, they shouldn't call the RS the same way. There wouldn't be any players left for the playoffs

[Capn'O]

So, it’s more likely that let’s say Reggie Miller is imagining what he lived through compared to what he currently covers? That seems reasonable.

We can watch video of Miller's games and we can watch video of modern games. We don't have to rely on his memories.

I'm telling you guys - everyone just remembers playing us.

Watch on YouTube

[TheGOATWill]

So, it’s more likely that let’s say Reggie Miller is imagining what he lived through compared to what he currently covers? That seems reasonable.

We can watch video of Miller's games and we can watch video of modern games. We don't have to rely on his memories.

I don't think you've watched very many games from 30 years ago. I think you're exaggerating for effect. I'm trying to think of a term for that. How about flopping? Is that it? You watched the Grizz and Thunder hoist 80 threes in between Brunson and Jokic flopping up and down the floor last night and thought to yourself, the physicality is off the charts.