The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[BobbieL]

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Thats just nonsense if Ishbia thinks he can get close to what he paid for Durant

I think that is just news for the media to send a message about Durant and his value

[sunsbg]

Ishbia has no clue confirmed. It's the right thing to say, but other FOs still laughing at him.

[Slim Charless]

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Would you guys want Sabonis on our team or would you prefer to trade him elsewhere in a 3 team trade with us getting back other assets?

Again - like other players - how do you build out your roster. Top heavy. No depth

Two year rebuild .. that needs to be the plan

Also none of those players are worth building around except for Giannis and he is not going to Phoenix

Probably right but a Booker-Giannis swap would solve a lot of what is going here roster wise. Even add in there Dunn to help bridge value. Use our FRP this year for a PG and have:

Rookie PG
Beal
Greyson
KD
Giannis

Looks better. FTR I don't know if MIL will get a better "star" in a return for Giannis. They probably wanna go picks and kids though....

[BobbieL]

Again - like other players - how do you build out your roster. Top heavy. No depth

Two year rebuild .. that needs to be the plan

Also none of those players are worth building around except for Giannis and he is not going to Phoenix

Probably right but a Booker-Giannis swap would solve a lot of what is going here roster wise. Even add in there Dunn to help bridge value. Use our FRP this year for a PG and have:

Rookie PG
Beal
Greyson
KD
Giannis

Looks better. FTR I don't know if MIL will get a better "star" in a return for Giannis. They probably wanna go picks and kids though....

This is just personal - but I just don't want Durant on this team anymore. He is very unlikeable to me - just on the court and what he adds to the team.
And though I want to move on from Booker - I think Booker will be better if Durant is gone. Durant is not bringing out the best in Booker

[Saberestar]

Ishbia and the Suns will not accept less value in a trade involving Durant than they initially sent out to get him, sources said.

Word on the street around the NBA is that he still believes playing alongside Booker can fulfill his championship wish at this stage in his career.

https://clutchpoints.com/nba/nba-stories/giannis-antetokounmpo-trade-speculation-bucks-future-in-doubt-siegel-scoop

Personally I think that KD isn't coming back next season but I think that the package for him has to be really good...and it will be very good.

But for a meh package? Then they probably agree about an extension and try to retool around him and Book and if things don't go well try to trade him at the deadline.

[Calvin Klein]

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[Calvin Klein]

Ishbia has no clue confirmed. It's the right thing to say, but other FOs still laughing at him.

Everyone is laughing at him actually.

Everything that comes out of his mouth is laughable. A few days ago claiming the Suns will win ChampionshipSSS under him

[sunsbg]

Ishbia has no clue confirmed. It's the right thing to say, but other FOs still laughing at him.

Everyone is laughing at him actually.

Everything that comes out of his mouth is laughable. A few days ago claiming the Suns will win ChampionshipSSS under him

Yeah, if they sign Booker to 70M extension I'm betting all my spendings Suns don't come close to winning a title in next 10 years, and if Ishbia doesn't change, 20y is a safe bet too.

[SunsRback4Good]

Ishbia has no clue confirmed. It's the right thing to say, but other FOs still laughing at him.

Everyone is laughing at him actually.

Everything that comes out of his mouth is laughable. A few days ago claiming the Suns will win ChampionshipSSS under him

[BobbieL]

Ishbia has no clue confirmed. It's the right thing to say, but other FOs still laughing at him.

Everyone is laughing at him actually.

Everything that comes out of his mouth is laughable. A few days ago claiming the Suns will win ChampionshipSSS under him

Yeah, if they sign Booker to 70M extension I'm betting all my spendings Suns don't come close to winning a title in next 10 years, and if Ishbia doesn't change, 20y is a safe bet too.

If they sign Booker to an extension and either trade or stretch Beal, it will be 204__ before the Suns sniff a WCF final.

Ishbia should call Booker up and just say "Hey DB - we are going to hold off on that extension for now, see how things play out this year - how you feeling?"

Book would ask for a trade in a heartbeat - Book wants Phoenix because its probably been floated he is getting two more years when he is signed for three already. And I do not begrudge Booker wanting the money at all. Just not sure that he is the right guy to lead a team to a title though
And neither is Durant

[sunsbg]

Everyone is laughing at him actually.

Everything that comes out of his mouth is laughable. A few days ago claiming the Suns will win ChampionshipSSS under him

Yeah, if they sign Booker to 70M extension I'm betting all my spendings Suns don't come close to winning a title in next 10 years, and if Ishbia doesn't change, 20y is a safe bet too.

If they sign Booker to an extension and either trade or stretch Beal, it will be 204__ before the Suns sniff a WCF final.

Ishbia should call Booker up and just say "Hey DB - we are going to hold off on that extension for now, see how things play out this year - how you feeling?"

Book would ask for a trade in a heartbeat - Book wants Phoenix because its probably been floated he is getting two more years when he is signed for three already. And I do not begrudge Booker wanting the money at all. Just not sure that he is the right guy to lead a team to a title though
And neither is Durant

If a team throws an offer like Ishbia did for KD it's stupid to reject it. Nobody is offering that though. My hope was we can flip Book + picks for a true superstar like Doncic or Giannis, ideally a younger one, but since Ishbia traded every available pick that's not possible anymore. FO doesn't want to rebuild, so I fear this team is stuck in mediocrity for a long long time.

[BobbieL]

Yeah, if they sign Booker to 70M extension I'm betting all my spendings Suns don't come close to winning a title in next 10 years, and if Ishbia doesn't change, 20y is a safe bet too.

If they sign Booker to an extension and either trade or stretch Beal, it will be 204__ before the Suns sniff a WCF final.

Ishbia should call Booker up and just say "Hey DB - we are going to hold off on that extension for now, see how things play out this year - how you feeling?"

Book would ask for a trade in a heartbeat - Book wants Phoenix because its probably been floated he is getting two more years when he is signed for three already. And I do not begrudge Booker wanting the money at all. Just not sure that he is the right guy to lead a team to a title though
And neither is Durant

If a team throws an offer like Ishbia did for KD it's stupid to reject it. Nobody is offering that though. My hope was we can flip Book + picks for a true superstar like Doncic or Giannis, ideally a younger one, but since Ishbia traded every available pick that's not possible anymore. FO doesn't want to rebuild, so I fear this team is stuck in mediocrity for a long long time.

There is no way Booker could get Doncic or Giannis even if they had all their picks. He is a good player - but I think its you -but somebody -his game is just being a mid-range scorer. Not even the best 3pt shooter - -he is 35%. By comparison, Klay Thompson is a career 41% shooter from 3 point land
Devin Booker is a little better Demar DeRozan.

I mean, if Booker and Durant leave - their stans will leave too

[ChuckS]

You’re really gonna try and compare KD to Chris Paul? Smh.
26 6 4 on 50/40/80. Are you suns fans or NBA draft fans. We won’t have any lottery picks the rest of the 20s.
Ware has done nothing. Heat have nothing to offer unless it’s 5 unprotected 1st round picks and Ware.

Well, KD has better numbers, but CP3 was a leader who would take over games, make every teammate better, hold people accountable, had the intangibles. He was #3 in the MVP race in our 64 win year before he got injured for a bit.

What I'm really saying is that anyone who isn't LeBron usually declines dramatically (if they haven't yet, like 99% of players do) at the age of 37 or 38. About the only exception is Stockton, but he still wasn't what he was previously. How long do you expect the guy to play at a really high level?

Here are the oldest guys in the NBA, and aside from LeBron, everyone has declined a lot, except for Curry, who has just turned 37.

A leader with no rings. He can lead all he wants. Productivity matters.
KD isn’t the problem. All these trades have us trading the guy who was the least of our problems for more liability players. Makes no sense.
Keep Booker, KD and Beal. Get rid of everyone else for just defense, rebounding, hustle and heart.

Awesome post. You expressed in so few words what I believe but have lacked the energy to respond to so many different opinions. I mistakenly thought that this board reflected the opinions of the Suns community so I've rarely disagreed because I hate to be repetitive, particularly when it seemed useless. But then I read John Voita's (BSOTS) article and survey.. He and 75% of the respondents rated KD from A+ to A-, 19% B, 2% C, and 3% F. I am now less confused.

I certainly cannot fault anyone extolling CP3's great 20 year career, talent, or greatness. I actually agree. I part ways, however, when he is considered greater than Kevin Durant (17 years), Most detractors know of KD's superior numbers but use arguments of opinion not measurable by stats. I think the most important is leadership. I find it hard to believe that anyone familiar with a team sport could reasonably believe that anyone as dominant as KD would not be a leader on any team he is on. And I certainly agree with you that productivity matters. It's hard for me to believe that anyone can think that Durant does not take over games or, because of his counsel and the defensive attention he receives, make everyone better. Holding people accountable is a somewhat nebulous claim. I've seen him when he passes to someone with a better shot who doesn't take it. He just will never throw a teammate under the bus, ever, which some see as a weakness. When it comes to such intangibles, though, I accept that anyone can have a strong opinion. I just find it hard to believe that if a team wins 10% of it's games in his absence and over 50% when he plays anyone could doubt his competence and accomplishments. I, also, just choose to believe Popovich, Kerr, Green, Thompson, and Curry, about his leadership and importance, over anonymous internet detractors.

But back to the matter at hand. Both KD and CP3 are obviously great players. Both were ROYs. For league MVP CP3 finished 2d, 3d, 4th, and fifth, plus 5 more considerations from 6th to 10th. KD actually won one MVP, was second three times, 5th twice, also with 5 more considerations from 6th to 10th. KD has averaged 27.2PPG at 50/39% for his career. CP3 17PPG at 47/37% for his. CP3 has won two gold medals. KD four with two FIBA MVPs. Both have played in many allstar games and CP3 was MVP once and KD twice. CP3 has never won a championship. KD has won two being MVP in both. KD has the fourth best playoff average at 29PPG, CP3 is 81st at 20PPG. KD (in fewer years) is the NBA's 8th for all time leading scorer. CP3 is 36th. In summary, although both are favorites of mine, I cannot believe there are enough, if any, intangibles to overcome what I believe is the fact of KD's superiority.

[BobbieL]

Well, KD has better numbers, but CP3 was a leader who would take over games, make every teammate better, hold people accountable, had the intangibles. He was #3 in the MVP race in our 64 win year before he got injured for a bit.

What I'm really saying is that anyone who isn't LeBron usually declines dramatically (if they haven't yet, like 99% of players do) at the age of 37 or 38. About the only exception is Stockton, but he still wasn't what he was previously. How long do you expect the guy to play at a really high level?

Here are the oldest guys in the NBA, and aside from LeBron, everyone has declined a lot, except for Curry, who has just turned 37.

A leader with no rings. He can lead all he wants. Productivity matters.
KD isn’t the problem. All these trades have us trading the guy who was the least of our problems for more liability players. Makes no sense.
Keep Booker, KD and Beal. Get rid of everyone else for just defense, rebounding, hustle and heart.

Awesome post. You expressed in so few words what I believe but have lacked the energy to respond to so many different opinions. I mistakenly thought that this board reflected the opinions of the Suns community so I've rarely disagreed because I hate to be repetitive, particularly when it seemed useless. But then I read John Voita's (BSOTS) article and survey.. He and 75% of the respondents rated KD from A+ to A-, 19% B, 2% C, and 3% F. I am now less confused.

I certainly cannot fault anyone extolling CP3's great 20 year career, talent, or greatness. I actually agree. I part ways, however, when he is considered greater than Kevin Durant (17 years), Most detractors know of KD's superior numbers but use arguments of opinion not measurable by stats. I think the most important is leadership. I find it hard to believe that anyone familiar with a team sport could reasonably believe that anyone as dominant as KD would not be a leader on any team he is on. And I certainly agree with you that productivity matters. It's hard for me to believe that anyone can think that Durant does not take over games or, because of his counsel and the defensive attention he receives, make everyone better. Holding people accountable is a somewhat nebulous claim. I've seen him when he passes to someone with a better shot who doesn't take it. He just will never throw a teammate under the bus, ever, which some see as a weakness. When it comes to such intangibles, though, I accept that anyone can have a strong opinion. I just find it hard to believe that if a team wins 10% of it's games in his absence and over 50% when he plays anyone could doubt his competence and accomplishments. I, also, just choose to believe Popovich, Kerr, Green, Thompson, and Curry, about his leadership and importance, over anonymous internet detractors.

But back to the matter at hand. Both KD and CP3 are obviously great players. Both were ROYs. For league MVP CP3 finished 2d, 3d, 4th, and fifth, plus 5 more considerations from 6th to 10th. KD actually won one MVP, was second three times, 5th twice, also with 5 more considerations from 6th to 10th. KD has averaged 27.2PPG at 50/39% for his career. CP3 17PPG at 47/37% for his. CP3 has won two gold medals. KD four with two FIBA MVPs. Both have played in many allstar games and CP3 was MVP once and KD twice. CP3 has never won a championship. KD has won two being MVP in both. KD has the fourth best playoff average at 29PPG, CP3 is 81st at 20PPG. KD (in fewer years) is the NBA's 8th for all time leading scorer. CP3 is 36th. In summary, although both are favorites of mine, I cannot believe there are enough, if any, intangibles to overcome what I believe is the fact of KD's superiority.

Durant - better player, no question

CP3 - better player next to Booker as a teammate. Elevates his teammates game

The goal is to win the last I checked and with CP 3 - Devin Booker was winning more games.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Again - like other players - how do you build out your roster. Top heavy. No depth

Two year rebuild .. that needs to be the plan

Also none of those players are worth building around except for Giannis and he is not going to Phoenix

Probably right but a Booker-Giannis swap would solve a lot of what is going here roster wise. Even add in there Dunn to help bridge value. Use our FRP this year for a PG and have:

Rookie PG
Beal
Greyson
KD
Giannis

Looks better. FTR I don't know if MIL will get a better "star" in a return for Giannis. They probably wanna go picks and kids though....

Not a fan of the Dunn inclusion, but it is Giannis we're talking about here!!! and consequently, I do have a list a very underrated high impact multipositional defenders that could reasonably replace Dunn if ever necessary. And again, it is freaking Giannis!

So ultimately sign me up! We'd have to strategically have multiple legitimate follow-up moves in place though for a point guard option and multiple shooters/ two way scorers (floor spacers) to surround Giannis with and provide floor spacing for him as shooting is his kryptonite for sure!

All this being said, I don't think we'll realistically get to the table for him with the embarrassingly poor assets we have left. And I also don't think there's any way whatsoever that Ishbia would even consider trading Booker, even for Giannis as totally crazy as that sounds man!

Right now the teams that have been rumored to heavily pursue Giannis this summer are Brooklyn (It's there top priority), but all they really have to offer are picks and cap space really.

Of course, They could send out Cam Johnson and Nik Claxton too in a deal as enticing pieces. And those could be enticing pieces. But not centerpiece pieces really! So perhaps we could send out something bigger in a multi team trade to get some intriguing talent/ pieces/ picks back?

Now ironically, OKC would be in a great position to pursue him in a trade. And they have everything a team could want to offer in a trade for him. But if they win it all, then why would they choose to change things up?

New Orleans would be intriguing to me as they could package a Zion/ Murray/ picks swap. But Giannis is said to have Businesses in New York which could swing his interests more strongly to EITHER New York or Brooklyn. But my interests would be more aligned with getting in on the trade to possibly get some interesting pieces back!

New York has no picks, but some pretty solid players to offer. It might be a challenge to find where we could actually fit in a Giannis deal?

[Slim Charless]

I think if the Nets land Flagg they should move him for Giannis straight up. Then use the rest of that stuff to add depth around Giannis. They can even add another star to put there and still have picks left for cheap rookies.

They have over 90 million this year in cap space. MILLION.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Not sure what Golden State would really have to offer that Milwaukee would want back for Giannis.

[ChuckS]

A leader with no rings. He can lead all he wants. Productivity matters.
KD isn’t the problem. All these trades have us trading the guy who was the least of our problems for more liability players. Makes no sense.
Keep Booker, KD and Beal. Get rid of everyone else for just defense, rebounding, hustle and heart.

Awesome post. You expressed in so few words what I believe but have lacked the energy to respond to so many different opinions. I mistakenly thought that this board reflected the opinions of the Suns community so I've rarely disagreed because I hate to be repetitive, particularly when it seemed useless. But then I read John Voita's (BSOTS) article and survey.. He and 75% of the respondents rated KD from A+ to A-, 19% B, 2% C, and 3% F. I am now less confused.

I certainly cannot fault anyone extolling CP3's great 20 year career, talent, or greatness. I actually agree. I part ways, however, when he is considered greater than Kevin Durant (17 years), Most detractors know of KD's superior numbers but use arguments of opinion not measurable by stats. I think the most important is leadership. I find it hard to believe that anyone familiar with a team sport could reasonably believe that anyone as dominant as KD would not be a leader on any team he is on. And I certainly agree with you that productivity matters. It's hard for me to believe that anyone can think that Durant does not take over games or, because of his counsel and the defensive attention he receives, make everyone better. Holding people accountable is a somewhat nebulous claim. I've seen him when he passes to someone with a better shot who doesn't take it. He just will never throw a teammate under the bus, ever, which some see as a weakness. When it comes to such intangibles, though, I accept that anyone can have a strong opinion. I just find it hard to believe that if a team wins 10% of it's games in his absence and over 50% when he plays anyone could doubt his competence and accomplishments. I, also, just choose to believe Popovich, Kerr, Green, Thompson, and Curry, about his leadership and importance, over anonymous internet detractors.

But back to the matter at hand. Both KD and CP3 are obviously great players. Both were ROYs. For league MVP CP3 finished 2d, 3d, 4th, and fifth, plus 5 more considerations from 6th to 10th. KD actually won one MVP, was second three times, 5th twice, also with 5 more considerations from 6th to 10th. KD has averaged 27.2PPG at 50/39% for his career. CP3 17PPG at 47/37% for his. CP3 has won two gold medals. KD four with two FIBA MVPs. Both have played in many allstar games and CP3 was MVP once and KD twice. CP3 has never won a championship. KD has won two being MVP in both. KD has the fourth best playoff average at 29PPG, CP3 is 81st at 20PPG. KD (in fewer years) is the NBA's 8th for all time leading scorer. CP3 is 36th. In summary, although both are favorites of mine, I cannot believe there are enough, if any, intangibles to overcome what I believe is the fact of KD's superiority.

Durant - better player, no question

CP3 - better player next to Booker as a teammate. Elevates his teammates game

The goal is to win the last I checked and with CP 3 - Devin Booker was winning more games.

I mostly agree. But I've never seen two superstars mesh so favorably that both finished a season with nearly identical 27PPG averages. This suggested to me that they were able to co-exist without sacrificing their immense talents, by deferring only to the hot hand. It could be argued that they are both better mid range players, but they shoot threes so well that I think that is a plus, as is the ability of all great players to ISO.

On the other hand, I believe that a good point guard maximizes the worth of any scorer. And CP3 is one of the best. I think, next to overall size, that has been our biggest weakness. I liked Jones but thought he was poor at getting the ball to our best player when necessary. This was less harmful to Booker as a combo guard. A big is more affected. In one Milwaukee game, after we blew a lead and fell behind in the last few minutes, Eddie Johnson plaintively pleaded: "Get the ball to Durant -- please". We did and KD hit a long three to go back in the lead, Two plays later we were down again with seconds to go. Johnson said something like: They won't let KD beat them. Look for Booker. Sure enough Book hit the game winner. I believe that we are better with both and a good point guard. Most of all I think those who believe KD and Book are our problems should listen more to someone like Johnson who has reason to know better.

[BobbieL]

Awesome post. You expressed in so few words what I believe but have lacked the energy to respond to so many different opinions. I mistakenly thought that this board reflected the opinions of the Suns community so I've rarely disagreed because I hate to be repetitive, particularly when it seemed useless. But then I read John Voita's (BSOTS) article and survey.. He and 75% of the respondents rated KD from A+ to A-, 19% B, 2% C, and 3% F. I am now less confused.

I certainly cannot fault anyone extolling CP3's great 20 year career, talent, or greatness. I actually agree. I part ways, however, when he is considered greater than Kevin Durant (17 years), Most detractors know of KD's superior numbers but use arguments of opinion not measurable by stats. I think the most important is leadership. I find it hard to believe that anyone familiar with a team sport could reasonably believe that anyone as dominant as KD would not be a leader on any team he is on. And I certainly agree with you that productivity matters. It's hard for me to believe that anyone can think that Durant does not take over games or, because of his counsel and the defensive attention he receives, make everyone better. Holding people accountable is a somewhat nebulous claim. I've seen him when he passes to someone with a better shot who doesn't take it. He just will never throw a teammate under the bus, ever, which some see as a weakness. When it comes to such intangibles, though, I accept that anyone can have a strong opinion. I just find it hard to believe that if a team wins 10% of it's games in his absence and over 50% when he plays anyone could doubt his competence and accomplishments. I, also, just choose to believe Popovich, Kerr, Green, Thompson, and Curry, about his leadership and importance, over anonymous internet detractors.

But back to the matter at hand. Both KD and CP3 are obviously great players. Both were ROYs. For league MVP CP3 finished 2d, 3d, 4th, and fifth, plus 5 more considerations from 6th to 10th. KD actually won one MVP, was second three times, 5th twice, also with 5 more considerations from 6th to 10th. KD has averaged 27.2PPG at 50/39% for his career. CP3 17PPG at 47/37% for his. CP3 has won two gold medals. KD four with two FIBA MVPs. Both have played in many allstar games and CP3 was MVP once and KD twice. CP3 has never won a championship. KD has won two being MVP in both. KD has the fourth best playoff average at 29PPG, CP3 is 81st at 20PPG. KD (in fewer years) is the NBA's 8th for all time leading scorer. CP3 is 36th. In summary, although both are favorites of mine, I cannot believe there are enough, if any, intangibles to overcome what I believe is the fact of KD's superiority.

Durant - better player, no question

CP3 - better player next to Booker as a teammate. Elevates his teammates game

The goal is to win the last I checked and with CP 3 - Devin Booker was winning more games.

I mostly agree. But I've never seen two superstars mesh so favorably that both finished a season with nearly identical 27PPG averages. This suggested to me that they were able to co-exist without sacrificing their immense talents, by deferring only to the hot hand. It could be argued that they are both better mid range players, but they shoot threes so well that I think that is a plus, as is the ability of all great players to ISO.

On the other hand, I believe that a good point guard maximizes the worth of any scorer. And CP3 is one of the best. I think, next to overall size, that has been our biggest weakness. I liked Jones but thought he was poor at getting the ball to our best player when necessary. This was less harmful to Booker as a combo guard. A big is more affected. In one Milwaukee game, after we blew a lead and fell behind in the last few minutes, Eddie Johnson plaintively pleaded: "Get the ball to Durant -- please". We did and KD hit a long three to go back in the lead, Two plays later we were down again with seconds to go. Johnson said something like: They won't let KD beat them. Look for Booker. Sure enough Book hit the game winner. I believe that we are better with both and a good point guard. Most of all I think those who believe KD and Book are our problems should listen more to someone like Johnson who has reason to know better.

I understand there will be a new coach - and sure - maybe, that coach can get more out of the team
But if you are keeping Booker and Durant - the roster is not improving
Even if you trade Beal -- what are you getting back and what is the cost to trade him?

So yes, Book and Durant will still score there 25+ ppg game - but what will the record be and will they be in the playoffs?
I don't see it