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Value of upcoming MN FA

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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#21 » by Klomp » Fri Apr 25, 2025 1:02 am

TimberKat wrote:
shrink wrote:Naz was #5 in the Sixth Man of the Year voting, and NAW was #6. Those guys pull starter money on other teams. They can both raise or lower their next contract by their playoff performances. I had hopes NAW would slip through the cracks, but now I think a sign-and-trade could be likely, if they stay under the second apron.

If MIN simply loses either guy, I count that as a whiff for the GM. Bird rights have value, but only if they are used - either to keep the player or in a sign-and-trade. Letting a player walk for nothing is common, but I still think it’s a mistake.

Question is what is starter money?
Cam Johnson, Green, Brooks, Barett, Gordon around 24M; Powell - 20M; OG - 19M;

Key bench: Monk - 17; Gafford, Toppin - 14M; Hield, KA - 9M; Naz - 15;

Is NAW really going to start over those guys? Or some of the younger guys with cheaper contract?

Let's be real here.....just because one player makes X doesn't mean that is the barometer that all players going forward must fall under.

Payton Pritchard makes $7M AAV. Donte DiVincenzo makes $11M AAV. That doesn't mean that all bench players will be forced to accept half of the MLE.

NAW being at $15-20M and Naz at $20-25M is very reasonable for the player yet being somewhat cap-friendly for teams as the cap continues to rise.
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#22 » by TimberKat » Fri Apr 25, 2025 1:18 am

Klomp wrote:
TimberKat wrote:
shrink wrote:Naz was #5 in the Sixth Man of the Year voting, and NAW was #6. Those guys pull starter money on other teams. They can both raise or lower their next contract by their playoff performances. I had hopes NAW would slip through the cracks, but now I think a sign-and-trade could be likely, if they stay under the second apron.

If MIN simply loses either guy, I count that as a whiff for the GM. Bird rights have value, but only if they are used - either to keep the player or in a sign-and-trade. Letting a player walk for nothing is common, but I still think it’s a mistake.

Question is what is starter money?
Cam Johnson, Green, Brooks, Barett, Gordon around 24M; Powell - 20M; OG - 19M;

Key bench: Monk - 17; Gafford, Toppin - 14M; Hield, KA - 9M; Naz - 15;

Is NAW really going to start over those guys? Or some of the younger guys with cheaper contract?

Let's be real here.....just because one player makes X doesn't mean that is the barometer that all players going forward must fall under.

Payton Pritchard makes $7M AAV. Donte DiVincenzo makes $11M AAV. That doesn't mean that all bench players will be forced to accept half of the MLE.

NAW being at $15-20M and Naz at $20-25M is very reasonable for the player yet being somewhat cap-friendly for teams as the cap continues to rise.

I pick recent contracts and highly doubt NAW 20. NAW's max is 14, the max mid level exception. Naz max is 20 and likely around 18. I think you guys overvalue the underdogs.
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#23 » by shrink » Fri Apr 25, 2025 3:04 am

The optimal strategy would be to trade contracts for value and financial relief, and use Bird rights to retain your own free agents.
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#24 » by younggunsmn » Fri Apr 25, 2025 4:25 am

Klomp wrote:
younggunsmn wrote:There is only going to be like one team with any serious cap room (Brooklyn).
Horrible year for anyone looking for a deal above the MLE.

Sign and trades still exist.

Everyone forgets the third part of a free agency "bidding war." It's not just about Team A vs Team B. At the end of the day, the PLAYER still has to accept the contract too. Most of them at that level aren't stupid enough to just say "woe is me I guess I have to just accept a 66% pay cut because only one team has cap space." Forget about it! They will find the money!


If you are a free agent who feels you are above average (IE more than the MLE), do you feel better entering a market where there are two teams available to give that to you (IE 2025) or 10+ teams (say 2026)?

It's basic supply and demand. Salary Cap restrictions are artificial limits placed on demand. There is only so much demand for services to divide up.
You can fudge it to make it slightly bigger but even that can only go so far.

You will have ONE team available next summer to facilitate "Finding the Money", a team which is in a market where they can just hoard cap space for a couple years waiting for the opportunity to outright sign multiple players much better than Julius Randle.
They aren't going to want to eat bad contracts the way OKC and Detroit have.
In fact they may actually try to get off a couple of decent/at worst neutral contracts (Cam Johnson and Nic Claxton)

You will have a situation where all teams have to offer in a bidding war are:
1. the MLE
2. their own contracts or the aggregation thereof

When you have to add value to sign a player by trading away other assets or paying teams to take your liabilities you are adding to the cost of acquiring the free agent. Maybe that doesnt matter for max contract players who are already theoretically being undervalued.
It certainly matters for everyone else.

And the CBA restrictions get tighter and tighter the more salary you add.

You want to try to aggregate 16 million for Klay Thompson and dump a contract into capspace?
The league had room last year to do one of those moves.
You want to aggregate for a 30 mil + or max contract player? Not happening.

What are we hoping to get in a sign and trade for Julius Randle?
Anything we would be willing to take back salary-wise would almost certainly be more valuable to the team we are trading him to.
He'd overpaid at 31 million.
The collapse of the cable tv regional sports model is going to affect things too, especially the spending habits of small to mid market teams..
Silver has said more than once they aren't even going to try to tackle expansion until they can sort that out.

It's going to be a very boring summer when it comes to free agency.
We will have 2 of the most attractive unrestricted free agents though.
I think we underestimate a little bit how many other teams around the league really like Naz Reid.
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#25 » by frankenwolf » Fri Apr 25, 2025 2:18 pm

younggunsmn wrote:
I think we underestimate a little bit how many other teams around the league really like Naz Reid.


This exactly. How many coach's/GM's around the league are saying "If Naz just got 30 min a game, he could be a star"?? Maybe someone who would have liked to trade for KAT but thought it was too much $$$. Naz would be an inexpensive replacement.

From my view, Naz needs to be the one we for sure re-sign.
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#26 » by Guest84 » Fri Apr 25, 2025 4:07 pm

frankenwolf wrote:
younggunsmn wrote:
I think we underestimate a little bit how many other teams around the league really like Naz Reid.


This exactly. How many coach's/GM's around the league are saying "If Naz just got 30 min a game, he could be a star"?? Maybe someone who would have liked to trade for KAT but thought it was too much $$$. Naz would be an inexpensive replacement.

From my view, Naz needs to be the one we for sure re-sign.


I'm a big fan of Naz and appreciate the hard work he puts in to get better. However, I struggle with wondering "is he really a starting 4 on a championship team"? Has he capped out in terms of his style of play? I know he'll see an increase in his numbers if given more minutes but will it equate to winning? Are we overvaluing him because he's "homegrown" in a sense??

I have the same questions with NAW. He's been invaluable to this team but may be easier to replace w/ DDV, TSJ, Clark, etc.

Big decisions for the upper floor this offseason...
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#27 » by TimberKat » Fri Apr 25, 2025 4:29 pm

Guest84 wrote:
frankenwolf wrote:
younggunsmn wrote:
I think we underestimate a little bit how many other teams around the league really like Naz Reid.


This exactly. How many coach's/GM's around the league are saying "If Naz just got 30 min a game, he could be a star"?? Maybe someone who would have liked to trade for KAT but thought it was too much $$$. Naz would be an inexpensive replacement.

From my view, Naz needs to be the one we for sure re-sign.


I'm a big fan of Naz and appreciate the hard work he puts in to get better. However, I struggle with wondering "is he really a starting 4 on a championship team"? Has he capped out in terms of his style of play? I know he'll see an increase in his numbers if given more minutes but will it equate to winning? Are we overvaluing him because he's "homegrown" in a sense??

I have the same questions with NAW. He's been invaluable to this team but may be easier to replace w/ DDV, TSJ, Clark, etc.

Big decisions for the upper floor this offseason...

Yes,agree. If Naz gets 30 mins, he is a starter? Why isn't he get 30 min with Wolves now? There is minutes available. We could use Randle, Gobert, JMcD less if he is effective. He didn't take a leap this year and likely peaked. He is a complementary player. Can he replace Gordon in DEN? Maybe start next to Bam with Heat? How much would those teams willing to paid him? Does Charlotte see him as a foundation piece? I don't think so.
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#28 » by wolves_89 » Fri Apr 25, 2025 6:15 pm

My predictions for the offseason.
- Randle declines his player option and a sign-and-trade is worked out where the Wolves take back a $15-20M/year player that fits.
- Naz re-signs for around $100M/4 years
- NAW re-signs for around $48M/3 years
- Minott back, Garza/Ingles gone
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#29 » by cmoss84 » Fri Apr 25, 2025 6:26 pm

I could see Detroit throwing money at Naz or NAW (or both).
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#30 » by TimberKat » Sat Apr 26, 2025 12:55 am

cmoss84 wrote:I could see Detroit throwing money at Naz or NAW (or both).

That is an interesting one. They got tons of cap room. I would think the want a max player. Would they paid Naz , NAW over Beasley, Schroder, and Hardaway? What about go for KD?
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#31 » by minimus » Sat Apr 26, 2025 7:05 am

frankenwolf wrote:
younggunsmn wrote:
I think we underestimate a little bit how many other teams around the league really like Naz Reid.


This exactly. How many coach's/GM's around the league are saying "If Naz just got 30 min a game, he could be a star"?? Maybe someone who would have liked to trade for KAT but thought it was too much $$$. Naz would be an inexpensive replacement.

From my view, Naz needs to be the one we for sure re-sign.


All it takes is one manager to throw money at Naz.
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#32 » by minimus » Sat Apr 26, 2025 11:31 am

wolves_89 wrote:My predictions for the offseason.
- Randle declines his player option and a sign-and-trade is worked out where the Wolves take back a $15-20M/year player that fits.
- Naz re-signs for around $100M/4 years
- NAW re-signs for around $48M/3 years
- Minott back, Garza/Ingles gone

If TC can find backup bigman and backup full size wing or quality ballhanders, I would call this a successful off-season. Not sure if should expect from Randle in case of sign-and-trade, but a SRP would be a solid return.
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#33 » by Ethomasp31 » Sat Apr 26, 2025 4:31 pm

TimberKat wrote:
Guest84 wrote:
frankenwolf wrote:
This exactly. How many coach's/GM's around the league are saying "If Naz just got 30 min a game, he could be a star"?? Maybe someone who would have liked to trade for KAT but thought it was too much $$$. Naz would be an inexpensive replacement.

From my view, Naz needs to be the one we for sure re-sign.


I'm a big fan of Naz and appreciate the hard work he puts in to get better. However, I struggle with wondering "is he really a starting 4 on a championship team"? Has he capped out in terms of his style of play? I know he'll see an increase in his numbers if given more minutes but will it equate to winning? Are we overvaluing him because he's "homegrown" in a sense??

I have the same questions with NAW. He's been invaluable to this team but may be easier to replace w/ DDV, TSJ, Clark, etc.

Big decisions for the upper floor this offseason...

Yes,agree. If Naz gets 30 mins, he is a starter? Why isn't he get 30 min with Wolves now? There is minutes available. We could use Randle, Gobert, JMcD less if he is effective. He didn't take a leap this year and likely peaked. He is a complementary player. Can he replace Gordon in DEN? Maybe start next to Bam with Heat? How much would those teams willing to paid him? Does Charlotte see him as a foundation piece? I don't think so.


Naz played 27.5 minutes a game this year. I agree with you that he is closer to a $20M a year player than a $25M a year player. I also agree that NAW is not a $18-20M a year player. I think $14M a year would be a good contract for him to accept.

Naz had a good three week stretch at the beginning of the season and another good 6 week stretch in the middle of the season. Other than that he did not play as well this year as last year. Excluding those 30 games he shot around 30% from 3 for the year.

As much as I hated the trade at the beginning of the year and didn't like Randle's game at all, I hope he is back next season and think he has been very valuable for this team. Does he have flaws, yes many!! I don't like him shooting as many threes as he does, but he has a toughness that this team needs. I've come to believe that this team has higher ceiling than last years team in the playoffs. It also probably has a lower floor as well.
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#34 » by Ethomasp31 » Sat Apr 26, 2025 4:37 pm

minimus wrote:
frankenwolf wrote:
younggunsmn wrote:
I think we underestimate a little bit how many other teams around the league really like Naz Reid.


This exactly. How many coach's/GM's around the league are saying "If Naz just got 30 min a game, he could be a star"?? Maybe someone who would have liked to trade for KAT but thought it was too much $$$. Naz would be an inexpensive replacement.

From my view, Naz needs to be the one we for sure re-sign.


All it takes is one manager to throw money at Naz.



What would be the most someone would pay for Naz?
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#35 » by TimberKat » Sat Apr 26, 2025 5:03 pm

Ethomasp31 wrote:
minimus wrote:
frankenwolf wrote:
This exactly. How many coach's/GM's around the league are saying "If Naz just got 30 min a game, he could be a star"?? Maybe someone who would have liked to trade for KAT but thought it was too much $$$. Naz would be an inexpensive replacement.

From my view, Naz needs to be the one we for sure re-sign.


All it takes is one manager to throw money at Naz.



What would be the most someone would pay for Naz?

If I go down the crazy path. OG at 39M, Bane at 36, Suggs at 35, Quickly at 32.5, Hartenstien at 29, Vassell at 27, Mikal Bridges at 25 (one year). Does anyone feel Naz is better than those players and not overpaid?

I already shown the reasonable contacts in previous msg. But as someone else mentioned, DET got tons of cap space and could offer him a two year 32M each.
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#36 » by Klomp » Sat Apr 26, 2025 6:30 pm

I think there is a role here for both Randle and Naz. They don't really play the same way at all. The question is, will there be money for both?
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#37 » by wolves_89 » Sat Apr 26, 2025 6:51 pm

Klomp wrote:I think there is a role here for both Randle and Naz. They don't really play the same way at all. The question is, will there be money for both?


I think the money could be solved by just not bringing back NAW (with some combination of Dillingham/Clark/Shannon filling the minutes). To me the bigger issue is getting buy in from both Julius and Naz on a plan for who starts and how many minutes they each get. I definitely don't see Naz settling for 27 min a night going forward and I'm unsure how important getting a starting spot will be (Naz has made a pretty strong case he is a starting caliber player).
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#38 » by Guest84 » Sat Apr 26, 2025 8:03 pm

wolves_89 wrote:
Klomp wrote:I think there is a role here for both Randle and Naz. They don't really play the same way at all. The question is, will there be money for both?


I think the money could be solved by just not bringing back NAW (with some combination of Dillingham/Clark/Shannon filling the minutes). To me the bigger issue is getting buy in from both Julius and Naz on a plan for who starts and how many minutes they each get. I definitely don't see Naz settling for 27 min a night going forward and I'm unsure how important getting a starting spot will be (Naz has made a pretty strong case he is a starting caliber player).


I think if you keep both then you have to find a Rudy replacement. Someone who fits better all around.
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#39 » by jscott » Sat Apr 26, 2025 9:25 pm

minimus wrote:
frankenwolf wrote:
younggunsmn wrote:
I think we underestimate a little bit how many other teams around the league really like Naz Reid.


This exactly. How many coach's/GM's around the league are saying "If Naz just got 30 min a game, he could be a star"?? Maybe someone who would have liked to trade for KAT but thought it was too much $$$. Naz would be an inexpensive replacement.

From my view, Naz needs to be the one we for sure re-sign.


All it takes is one manager to throw money at Naz.

Literally only one team (the Nets) have cap space.
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Re: Value of upcoming MN FA 

Post#40 » by BlacJacMac » Sat Apr 26, 2025 9:29 pm

jscott wrote:
minimus wrote:
frankenwolf wrote:
This exactly. How many coach's/GM's around the league are saying "If Naz just got 30 min a game, he could be a star"?? Maybe someone who would have liked to trade for KAT but thought it was too much $$$. Naz would be an inexpensive replacement.

From my view, Naz needs to be the one we for sure re-sign.


All it takes is one manager to throw money at Naz.

Literally only one team (the Nets) have cap space.


As things stand today.

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