2024-2025 NBA Playoffs Round 1, Game 3: (2) Boston Celtics at (7) Orlando Magic - 7pm ET

[basketballRob]

I hate that I’m feeding this s@*t but…
-I don’t think anybody is claiming he’s a bust who should be out of the league
-I feel like he really “arrived” last night- providing insane, smart defensive pressure and causing turnovers against vet champs in a playoff game
- only debate for me is positional and how much it should or shouldn’t cost when his extension comes
- my opinion is that he is a younger, longer KCP…with great poise & personality for such a young guy. Multi-position Role player, but a good one.
-maybe can eat minutes at PG when Franz & Paolo are cooking, but not the answer at that spot…can mostly play 2/3 next to guys that can score

Ideally, we get TWO scoring PGs this summer, a badass starter and a solid backup…and pair them with Suggs & AB respectively. I don’t need to see any more of KCP, Cole, Jett & Gary…I’d consider keeping Gary at $3m for deep bench or just plug in Queen.

Based on how he's developing, he's only going to get like 4 yrs $60m. That's the benefit of drafting a player who is just a little bit younger than the normal draft pick.

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The obsession with age is yet another false start that you're ready to tattoo on your arm...there are plenty of good young guys that get paid. You're basically saying "good thing we spent a high pick on a raw child whose development has been disappointing - so he won't cost much"

I'm not saying that. The 3rd season has been big for our other guards, and Black is 6-7 months younger than them in his 3rd season. I think Black will improve next season, but the big jump will probably be in year 4 after he's already signed an extension.

Jalen Green was around the same age as Black when drafted, and he's making a little jump in his 4th season. That's why he didn't get the max

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[Skybox]

Brian Hill pointed out before the game 5 stats where we were noticeably trailing in the series that we had to win: fast break points, points off turnovers...

I think the vision of KCP and Suggs hounding at the POA, not just locking down, but proactively generating turnovers...leading to runaway violent dunks is the greatest image of what Weltman (and I assume Mose) envision for the team. That's a beautiful & demoralizing thing in many ways, but not reliable enough to compromise your usual offensive flow by not having playmakers/ball movers at the guard spots.

I think it's enough to have one savage guard at a time on the court. A guy like Suggs is so chaos-inducing that teams will have to game plan for him. I think AB is right behind him already and getting better. They can be deployed together for special situations, or AB simply continues the ball pressure when Suggs needs a break...but I really have no use for KCP with AB looking like a better version already.

It'd be even more effective with a bigger, rim-protecting mobile C backing up the guards. It's pretty basic defensive policy that a strong backstop gives guards much more ability to take chances and cause chaos at the POA. Even just delaying the opposition from getting into their sets until there's 10 seconds left is a major impact (sadly, we seem to choose to do the same to ourselves - it seems like we NEVER work with a full shot clock on offense)

[KillMonger]

what should separate KCP from AB is the shooting....but if KCP is shooting like he is then..........

[Skybox]

At worst, AB will be a solid backup and at best he is a starting SG or role player that can shoot 3's and play solid defense. I would sell high in a package to get a real good player.

He looked A LOT like Alex Caruso last night to me. Which doesn't mean he ends on that outcome because he is still growing, but that is a nice fall back. Championship level role player. Defensive potential is insanely high, great at applying ball pressure, terrific shot contester.

If you think there is overlap with Suggs and that it is going to be hard to pay AB in the future while adding a scoring guard I could see argument for trading him, but only in a package for a really good player. I personally would be very sad, I do not want to trade him. But as an AB fan if he went somewhere where he was guaranteed 32 minutes a game it would give me something else to watch at least.

1) I wouldn't swap AB for Caruso straight up, even if Caruso wasn't paid $20m per...and I wouldn't have done it last year either. Caruso's good, but the mythology of his contribution has far exceeded his actual play...sort of like KCP.

2) AB also might be the player that makes Suggs a trade candidate...Suggs is better on both ends and we all love him but he'd bring back a haul, imo.

[DiplomaticMagic]

Even though Im critical of our staff, Im proud of the physical identity we bought into.

Its funny seeing how frustrated the Celtics are with their quotes. Its funny because Jalen Suggs and Mo Wagner are easily are two most physical players can you imagine if they were playing too? They'd be crying so bad. I really wish they were playing.

I thought the 3 flagrant fouls were all borderline. The KCP one, was not a flagrant one at all. The Goga one, I agree with what Charles Barkley said, "accidental fouls can't be called flagrant". Why does Goga get penalized for going for the rebound? It was just unlucky he hit KP. Thats a risk every game. The Cole one today was probably the most deserving, but I still thought it was borderline. So the Celtics complaining as much as they are show me how soft they are, keep at it boys.

[Skybox]

Even though Im critical of our staff, Im proud of the physical identity we bought into.

Its funny seeing how frustrated the Celtics are with their quotes. Its funny because Jalen Suggs and Mo Wagner are easily are two most physical players can you imagine if they were playing too? They'd be crying so bad. I really wish they were playing.

I thought the 3 flagrant fouls were all borderline. The KCP one, was not a flagrant one at all. The Goga one, I agree with what Charles Barkley said, "accidental fouls can't be called flagrant". Why does Goga get penalized for going for the rebound? It was just unlucky he hit KP. Thats a risk every game. The Cole one today was probably the most deserving, but I still thought it was borderline. So the Celtics complaining as much as they are show me how soft they are, keep at it boys.

All 3 were completely dramatized by the resulting injuries...which, unfortunately, according to commentators, IS part of the equation. None were intentional, imo...IF Tatum had hopped right up, in both cases, they wouldn't even be talked about (Ironically, Coach Mazzula yelling at Tatum to "get up" because he wants his team to be tougher). They might not have even been fouls at all in another recent era...honestly, the only one that seemed intentional was Cole's and it was just a "you got me, I'm small and out of position, prove it on the foul line". Slapped at the ball, certainly no intent to injure. The way Tatum flew across the court like an Aikido uke made Cole look like Superman.

[Jiwol]

Just finished watching w/o spoilers. It was a very intense experience, lol. I see one great upside - it seems like P5 has stepped up a notch on the defensive end. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've noticed he finally showed some interest on the other side of the court. I'd love to see some dawg on defense in him. Just hoping Franz's attitude (Jalen is out so it's solely on Franz now) rubs on P5 more and more.

KCP can go and eat gravel for what I care. A horrible waste of the salary cap.

We're like 2-3 playable role players away from being a serious team. Just please let Weltman get kicked out before he screws this summer up..

[Optimus_Steel]

The Cole flagrant was a weak flagrant call that I’m sure Boston would not be called on.


We really need to move on from Cole though. Not only is he way too unreliable, he fouls too much (putting us in the penalty) and he cant make simple guard passes. It’s alarming how often he is off target on simple guard passes, either leading to a turnover or putting his teammates in difficult spots. He looks mostly unplayable this series.

Would like to see Da Silva get some play time. He is one of the few that can handle the ball some and maybe create some plays.

[basketballRob]

If we stretch the series out to 6 or 7 games, then Cole might be effective in a game. He can come in fresh after the other guards are worn down.

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[eyriq]

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[Ducklett]

“Wouldn’t a quick-release bomber like Simons have been nice? Just the threat alone…”

And let’s not forget Simons has ridiculously deep three point range, that is a huge help for spacing the floor for Paolo, Franz, and I’ll now include AB in there because he has gotten better driving to the rim. The 3 point line is 23 ft 9 inch from the basket, Simons can stretch his defender all the way out to 30+ ft from the basket.

He also makes Cole look like a DPOTY candidate and Cole is getting hunted on D by the Celts.

[Bakomagic]

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IIRC, he came up gimpy after Dingus shoved or threw him towards the stansion while fighting for rebound positioning, definitely not a foul or dirty though.

[eyriq]

I think the Celtics aura is hurting us mentally. Free throw percentage feels crazy (Without looking at normal variance)

[JF5]

Man Franz can't shoot. His shot is trash.

rather him than KCP....i have more faith that franz would hit one by mistake than KCP actually hitting one purposely

He can shoot long twos just fine... but the 3s man... it's insane

I believe he'll get his shot back but he needs to just work on that in the summer.

[eyriq]

*coughs louder*

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[AdamTheGreek]

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IIRC, he came up gimpy after Dingus shoved or threw him towards the stansion while fighting for rebound positioning, definitely not a foul or dirty though.

That happened in the game but AB got hurt coming down awkwardly by himself.
He went straight for the bike, so maybe he was just cramping up.
Need AB healthy because he’s getting better as the series progresses and his minutes rise.

[pepe1991]

Man Franz can't shoot. His shot is trash.

rather him than KCP....i have more faith that franz would hit one by mistake than KCP actually hitting one purposely

He can shoot long twos just fine... but the 3s man... it's insane

I believe he'll get his shot back but he needs to just work on that in the summer.

I mean, let's be real and honest for a second.
Do we EVER make any plays for him?

No.

In 3 games combined, do you know how many shots he got in first quarters to get going?

Game 1 - 1 FGA
Game 2 - 0 FGA
Game 3 - 1 FGA

So he had two shots in first quarters of 3 games.


This is how life looked for him on championship team in 2023 (First quarters)

Game 1 vs Lakers- 4 shots ( one short mid range, 1 three, two layups)
Game 2 vs Lakers - 0 shots
Game 3 vs Lakers 2 shots
Game 4 vs Lakers - 6 shots ( 5 threes, 1 layup )

12 shots in 4 games.

You can't expect from him to make shots if there is nobody to set him up early nor we ever look to get him going. Once he finally gets shot, it's deep in second quarter, with already heavy legs, with pre game shootaround being hour ago. Good luck finding rhythm.

On top of that even passes he get are often late in shot clock, as direct result of failed original play and result of bail out desparation passing.


Like, literally, this is one of his shots he took last night



Guy is yet to even GET A PASS with 1,3 sec on the clock because he was handed hot potato after:
- Banchero aimlessly dribbled ball for 8 sec
- passed to contested KCP who gave up ball to wide open Franz, who passed on shot, gave it to covered Joseph, who dribbled ball inside and gave this crap to KCP


Look, i'm not KCP "defender" , but KCP is in TERRIBLE situation when it comes to shooting with this team. Nobody is looking to find him, nobody passed goot looks to him, nobody can hits him on time with passing. He is fall guy to take some of hardest shots possible.

And if you think my upper picture is exception, here's same crap from game 2. Banchero failing to post up Prichard leads to bailout pass to KCP in corner for desparation shot with White in his face



You could replace him with prime Klay or Ray Ray and results would still be similar. Shooters need quality looks and good rhythm. We give them neither, but write on forums how they "forget how to shoot". No, they don't. They simply aren't involved in offense.


And nba. com tracks shot clock and "wide open" shots, but nothing covers quality of those passes. Jokić and Lebron set up shooters in perfect way, passing ball right at their chest. If player gets "wide open" shot but has to test his 35 inch vertical just to catch a ball, or has to squat just to pick up ball aimed at his feet, he might be "wide open" but still isn't in perfect shooting motion. Little things matter. There is somebody on youtube who made breakdown of how important it is to pre-set shooter for shot, like , if guy is lefty, you probably shouldn't pass ball on his right because it will offset his body and he will need time to adjust.

[Optimus_Steel]

rather him than KCP....i have more faith that franz would hit one by mistake than KCP actually hitting one purposely

He can shoot long twos just fine... but the 3s man... it's insane

I believe he'll get his shot back but he needs to just work on that in the summer.

I mean, let's be real and honest for a second.
Do we EVER make any plays for him?

No.

In 3 games combined, do you know how many shots he got in first quarters to get going?

Game 1 - 1 FGA
Game 2 - 0 FGA
Game 3 - 1 FGA

So he had two shots in first quarters of 3 games.


This is how life looked for him on championship team in 2023 (First quarters)

Game 1 vs Lakers- 4 shots ( one short mid range, 1 three, two layups)
Game 2 vs Lakers - 0 shots
Game 3 vs Lakers 2 shots
Game 4 vs Lakers - 6 shots ( 5 threes, 1 layup )

12 shots in 4 games.

You can't expect from him to make shots if there is nobody to set him up early nor we ever look to get him going. Once he finally gets shot, it's deep in second quarter, with already heavy legs, with pre game shootaround being hour ago. Good luck finding rhythm.

On top of that even passes he get are often late in shot clock, as direct result of failed original play and result of bail out desparation passing.


Like, literally, this is one of his shots he took last night



Guy is yet to even GET A PASS with 1,3 sec on the clock because he was handed hot potato after:
- Banchero aimlessly dribbled ball for 8 sec
- passed to contested KCP who gave up ball to wide open Franz, who passed on shot, gave it to covered Joseph, who dribbled ball inside and gave this crap to KCP


Look, i'm not KCP "defender" , but KCP is in TERRIBLE situation when it comes to shooting with this team. Nobody is looking to find him, nobody passed goot looks to him, nobody can hits him on time with passing. He is fall guy to take some of hardest shots possible.

And if you think my upper picture is exception, here's same crap from game 2. Banchero failing to post up Prichard leads to bailout pass to KCP in corner for desparation shot with White in his face



You could replace him with prime Klay or Ray Ray and results would still be similar. Shooters need quality looks and good rhythm. We give them neither, but write on forums how they "forget how to shoot". No, they don't. They simply aren't involved in offense.


And nba. com tracks shot clock and "wide open" shots, but nothing covers quality of those passes. Jokić and Lebron set up shooters in perfect way, passing ball right at their chest. If player gets "wide open" shot but has to test his 35 inch vertical just to catch a ball, or has to squat just to pick up ball aimed at his feet, he might be "wide open" but still isn't in perfect shooting motion. Little things matter. There is somebody on youtube who made breakdown of how important it is to pre-set shooter for shot, like , if guy is lefty, you probably shouldn't pass ball on his right because it will offset his body and he will need time to adjust.

We as a team in general struggle with this. Part is Paolo and Franz still learning how to deal with the attention of the defense. But the other part is that we don’t really have an offensive system nor a veteran PG that’s viable. Thats on Mosely and WeltPark.

[eyriq]

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[KillMonger]

Man maybe pepe does have something against Paolo lol..... "Dribbling aimlessly".... "Paolo failing to post up Pritchard" a bit gratuitous isn't it? You don't have to say it that way yet went out of your way to do so.....









just breaking your balls.... A little